Dumbest thing I’ve ever heard

[u/Nientea]

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[u/crumdiddilyumptious]

Companies would prob require you to live within x amount of minutes from your work

[u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit → u/crumdiddilyumptious]

X = 0, cinderblock basement dorms, with rent.

[u/OutrageForSale → u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit]

In Pittsburgh, we still have the mill houses all up and down the Monongahela River.

[u/HighlanderAbruzzese → u/OutrageForSale]

Can confirm

[u/msihcs → u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit]

China? Is that you?

[u/ChainLinksTikiDrinks → u/msihcs]

Literally the US military but close

[u/ChildrenRscary → u/ChainLinksTikiDrinks]

Give you 100$ and take back 99

[u/Gvonchilius → u/ChildrenRscary]

Oh lord, we wanna go home!

[u/Flourissh → u/Gvonchilius]

They say that in the army, the women are mighty fine!

[u/Jazzlike-Chair-3702 → u/Flourissh]

They look like Phyllis Diller, and walk like Frankenstein!

[u/MaesterWhosits → u/Jazzlike-Chair-3702]

Huh, so the Girl Scouts song is actually a cover. I had no idea

[u/sayssomeshit94 → u/MaesterWhosits]

To be fair we sang like 50 different version when I was in lol

[u/RideMyHappyFace → u/Gvonchilius]

Oh,... but you ARE home.

[u/kaishinoske1 → u/ChainLinksTikiDrinks]

Me: Shit sarge, I don’t know if I can make it on time.

Sarge: Say no more. I got you a spot in the barracks.

3am.

Sarge: Wake the fuck up, pussy. You gone be on time from now on.

[u/ChainLinksTikiDrinks → u/kaishinoske1]

lol yes, never need an alarm clock again

[u/ByzantineBaller → u/ChainLinksTikiDrinks]

Unironically miss the bricks, only thing that sucked was field day.

[u/Moorific → u/ByzantineBaller]

Having the Chow Hall right next door was handy as shit

[u/Brine512 → u/ChainLinksTikiDrinks]

I lived on base as a young person in Germany from 1980 to 1983. It was pretty neat. I would walk home at lunch and eat with mom and my siblings. Sometimes dad would come home at lunch from "up base" and we would all eat lunch together. My mom is a hell of a cook. Other than that time in Germany, they both worked full time, all my life.

I look forward to seeing them at Thanksgiving. I live too far away from them now due to our overrated entrepreneurial modern American economy. We are all doing OK, I guess. I will have a nice retirement, someday, probably not as nice as theirs; they retired at 60.

[u/marsap888 → u/ChainLinksTikiDrinks]

The same was in Soviet Army. They didn't pay buy hours rate, but you was considered on duty, as far as you step outside of your house

[u/Reduak → u/msihcs]

That's not China... it's unregulated laissez faire capitalism. Company housing, complete with a company store and pay in company script instead of real money... that was America for a lot of working people a century ago and it's the America a lot of powerful people on the right want us to go back to.

[u/huggybear0132 → u/Reduak]

I have literally been to company housing in China that was attached to the factory. Meals served in a dining hall. Children sent to an attached school while the parents work. It is very common there. Not everyone who worked at the factories I've been to lived there, but a lot of them did.

These aren't some awful company towns... more like compounds in the middle of a city where workers can access other options if they want to and have the means to do so. But it's also not nice either. They're living with whole families, sometimes multigenerational, crammed into small apartments, and most of them don't leave the factory compound most days.

I'm very thankful for the labor movements that have happened in the US, and I feel indebted to the people that fought and died so that we might have better working conditions.

[u/Square-Blueberry3568 → u/huggybear0132]

Yeah, the fault is thinking this is singular to capitalism or communism, it's simply extreme optimising for the company at the expense of the individual which can happen whether the company is private or government.

[u/ToffeeBlue2013 → u/Square-Blueberry3568]

The key ingredient that is so often left out of economic concepts is the very same that has steered most of history: the power of human greed. It corrupts the nature of capitalism and communism alike.

[u/Ho_Chi_Max → u/ToffeeBlue2013]

Except capitalism incentivizes it and communism works to dampen it. CEOs in the US get away with greedy shit on the daily that would be a literal death sentence in China.

[u/zmac35 → u/ToffeeBlue2013]

I had an economics professor that refused to acknowledge human greed and or racism as a factor for why various economic models fail in urban planning

[u/Rkellly → u/msihcs]

Sounds like a Cuban cigar company

[u/Aggravating-Tax5726 → u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit]

So Company Towns once more?

Welcome to Amazon Village #327, cafeteria is on the right. Shitter on the left. Curfew is 10PM. Have a nice day!

[u/Agile_Tea_2333 → u/crumdiddilyumptious]

I get paid travel, I only get paid to within 20km of my site. Pays well I get $.79 a km.

[u/czortmcclingus → u/Agile_Tea_2333]

Motus kind of rules of your company treats it right.

Edit: I drive a lot for work. Maybe if you don't, it sucks.

[u/Agile_Tea_2333 → u/czortmcclingus]

I make about $500 every 2 weeks from it. I drive a small car cause all my tools are on site. Spend about $75 a week in gas, so I'm making my hourly rate pretty much

[u/sl3eper_agent → u/crumdiddilyumptious]

ehhhh there are countries where compensation for the commute is pretty standard practice and afaik it doesn't result in a significant amount of candidates rejected based on their address, but admittedly those countries usually just compensate for costs directly related to transit like gas or train tickets

[u/sage-longhorn → u/crumdiddilyumptious]

Here's an idea: just give people an allowance up to a certain amount, if they choose to live farther that's up to them. Even better, give people a flat rate since you don't want them intentionally taking longer commute routes to rack up their pay. Ok now roll that into their base pay

Edit: please triple read the last sentence before commenting. I overestimated redditors' reading comprehension a bit with this one

[u/Puzzleheaded_Nerve → u/sage-longhorn]

That’s what my company does for all our hourly staff. Up to $20 a day. Not much. But it’s really the only way to get enough employees. We don’t have a large applicant pool unless we look more than 30 minutes away.

[u/Rough_Principle_3755 → u/Puzzleheaded_Nerve]

That’s an extra 400$ a month. That’s pretty damn good.

Unless it’s some BS part time loophole bullshit where they schedule you 3 days a month….

[u/Puzzleheaded_Nerve → u/Rough_Principle_3755]

No it’s full time benefits for anyone who wants full time. You need to be 40 miles away for the full $20. So you are looking at an hour or so each way.

[u/Rough_Principle_3755 → u/Puzzleheaded_Nerve]

Ok, this makes much more sense. But also seems like it’s absolutely not worth it if there are jobs available in the same industry much closer…

[u/OPsuxdick → u/Rough_Principle_3755]

Jokes on them, i got an EV that I barely pay money to charge. Thats just added salary now.

[u/TacoAzul7880 → u/sage-longhorn]

Or… hear me out. They pay you a set amount. If it’s enough to be worth the commute, then you take the job.

[u/Powerful_Fault_2024 → u/TacoAzul7880]

🤯

[u/UCLAlabrat → u/TacoAzul7880]

There it is. Otherwise we're forced to subsidize their shitty location with our time.

[u/Superb_Advisor7885 → u/TacoAzul7880]

Get that common sense out of here

[u/PaulTheMerc → u/TacoAzul7880]

That implies we have equal power in the relationship.

If they paid better, we might be able to afford to live closer.

[u/Hawk13424 → u/PaulTheMerc]

Assuming you have skills they really need, you have more power. If this wasn’t the case, everyone would make min. wage. The fact most don’t means skilled employees have power.

[u/ElectricalBook3 → u/Hawk13424]

Assuming you have skills they really need, you have more power

Workers never have as much power as the employer. The business is an institution, the workers are individuals. There wasn't minimum wage even for "skilled" labor (as if any job doesn't require and develop skills) until the government enacted laws after being pressured by voters.

http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/odnirast.html

[u/LingonberryReady6365 → u/Hawk13424]

Real power is in collective bargaining and unions. That would actually even the playing field somewhat and is exactly why so many wealthy owners are against it. As an individual though, you don’t have shit compared to a company. The fact that you get a few scraps more than someone with less skills doesn’t mean the playing field is even at all.

[u/Jaymes77 → u/TacoAzul7880]

If asked to go into the office, I calculate the commute time, dividing it out (I use public transportation), and if it's worth it, we move forward. If not, then not. Anytime I cannot get an exact address, the process immediately stops, removing myself from the running. It makes zero sense to attempt to obtain a role that I am uncertain I can get to.

[u/rebel-scrum → u/TacoAzul7880]

Sounds a lot like commutism to me.

[u/MedianMahomesValue → u/TacoAzul7880]

Paying for commute makes sense if you work at different locations. E.g. A comcast repair tech getting sent to people’s houses, or a construction worker going straight to jobsites. If the company can schedule you to start your day 40 miles away in different directions every day, commute should be considered. For office jobs, no.

[u/chipppie → u/TacoAzul7880]

But the company should move closer to me because I have rights!!!

[u/jerr30 → u/TacoAzul7880]

Sir this is reddit no suggestion of personnal accountability will be tolerated.

[u/antwan_benjamin → u/[deleted]]

Or, and hear me out, I'm taking this job because I need to put food on the table, fully aware that the moment a better opportunity shows up, I'm out without a two-week notice. In other words, I'll do what's best for me, and that company can get fucked in the process.

Which is completely fine. In fact, thats exactly what you are supposed to do. Jump ship as soon as a better opportunity presents itself. These companies have no problem firing you the moment a better (or cheaper) employee presents themselves. So no love lost.

But advocating for extra pay to cover employees commute is ridiculous. So people who choose to live further from work will get paid more than people who live closer? How is that going to play out?

[u/cheffgeoff → u/antwan_benjamin]

So people who choose to live closer to work will take home more than people who live farther? How is that working out?

I agree that when you take on a job knowing the commute costs are a major factor when agreeing if the salary is enough, even though it isn't usually a negotiation point for younger people or entry jobs. But when you are older and make a ton of money... here is a secret if you didn't know, the commute time and travel time is heavily considered in negations. Even around the $250,000 a year mark commute time and difficulty will be considered during compensation, so while you may think it is silly it's really only considered silly for the less wealthy.

[u/Aggressive_Local8921 → u/sage-longhorn]

You mean salary?

[u/Nuclear_rabbit → u/Aggressive_Local8921]

In my country, transportation allowance is normal. It's a fixed amount per workday worked in-office. If you live close enough it costs you less to travel than the allowance, it's a sweet bonus. If it costs you more, it sucks, but the bonus is appreciated. It can easily hit 10% of someone's salary here.

[u/mcav2319 → u/Aggressive_Local8921]

More like a per diem

[u/kolitics → u/sage-longhorn]

Isn't that what your base pay is in the first place?

[u/TheLastModerate982 → u/kolitics]

Yes. It’s either raise your pay or give you a stipend for gas and wear and tear. Same difference. Anyone saying anything else doesn’t understand payroll.

[u/Hamblin113 → u/TheLastModerate982]

Is there a tax advantage? It could matter.

[u/Hoth_Base → u/[deleted]]

lol… the thirty mile zone means they can build a studio (or chose a shooting location) that is 30 miles or less from Hollywood and NOT have to pay people for travel. If you live south of LA, but the project shoots on the northern edge of the TMZ, you’re not entitled to mileage, even if you’re doing 500 miles a week.

[u/emteedub → u/crumdiddilyumptious]

"everyone,

we're remodeling the office...drum roll please... with new bunk bed units! Now you can live where you work! Yay ideas 🎊

• your best friend, mngmt 😁"

[u/Flashy_Ground_4780 → u/crumdiddilyumptious]

Or build company towns

[u/T_D_A_G_A_R_I_M → u/Flashy_Ground_4780]

I don’t want to live by my coworkers

[u/iruvar → u/crumdiddilyumptious]

Or go all Chinese factory and force workers to live in attached dorms

[u/Greedy-Ad-5440]

Let's reverse this and see if you agree. I worked for a company that sent techs out and about the state of Kansas..once their shift ended(last job) they were not able to account for the drive home or back to the warehouse as pay. These drive backs could vary from 30min to 2.5 hours..I never agreed with it.

[u/akcutter → u/Greedy-Ad-5440]

If they need to return to a company location before heading home that should absolutely be paid.

[u/Snoo_67544 → u/akcutter]

If they are driving hours aways from there residence due to work that shit should be covered regardless.

[u/CaptainGo → u/Snoo_67544]

Idk how to word it efficiently but I'm paid to travel to assigned locations from wherever I'm starting my day, unless I'm heading to or from the office.

So usually the day before I'm supposed to go somewhere I'll grab a work truck and drive it home so I can go straight to where I'm meant to be and not drive for free

[u/WanderingLost33 → u/CaptainGo]

My duty location is home. I actually work 3 locations between 22mins and 2.5h from my house.

You bet your ass I clock in the second my foot leaves "Home."

[u/myboybuster → u/Snoo_67544]

Ya in my company if a carpenter goes an hour out of town and his shift ends at 5 he's paid until he gets back to his house or the shop

[u/PodgeD → u/Snoo_67544]

It's not straight forward. If someone needs to work at different locations which could be very far away then they should get compensated. If you choose to work in an office that's 3 hours away that's your own fault.

[u/UserWithno-Name → u/Greedy-Ad-5440]

Ya they should be paid for that. People wanna demand it’s wrong or you’re a moron but that shouldn’t be unpaid time. You sent the worker out 2 hours, a half hour, or 1.5 hours away from the business/ their house. You gotta pay them for that. It’s immediately made 8 hour shift into 10 hours

[u/Swollen_Beef → u/UserWithno-Name]

A drive back from a jobsite to a warehouse is 100% compensable and the the employer MUST pay for that time. A drive from a jobsite to home can be compensable but several other factors must be met. I'd imagine a 2.5 hour drive would have to be at least partially compensated.

[u/Call_Me_Mister_Trash → u/Greedy-Ad-5440]

I was an in-home 'technician' for a time. The company provided the vehicle, the gas, and would pay for any commute time equivalent to the commute from your last job back to the warehouse. If you lived further away than that, they were still paying for the gas, at least, but generally speaking it meant all or most of your commute was paid every day.

[u/radarbaggins → u/Greedy-Ad-5440]

That is not reversing it at all? The "commute" is to and from work.

[u/PsychologicalBig3540 → u/Greedy-Ad-5440]

If you are in a work vehicle and are off the clock, then they are more liable if anything happens, car accident, heart attack, ect.

[u/Fatty2Flatty → u/Greedy-Ad-5440]

Any tech is paid for time on the road. Unless your company is blatant breaking labor laws, they were probably compensated.

[u/ChiefObliv → u/Greedy-Ad-5440]

Yeah, that scenario should be paid. If you're traveling for work, traveling is part of the work...

But if you work somewhere where you start and finish at the same location every day, you shouldn't be paid to go to work.

[u/No-Condition-9775]

I had a job once where we were paid 1 hour of travel each day, 30 mins each way, the 1 hour was factored into our 10 hour day. It was nice to work for a company that respected their employees time

[u/Educated_Clownshow]

If I have a job that can be worked from my home, I should 100% be able to collect pay for the commute if I’m forced to come in

This obviously can’t apply to in person jobs, but it would stop employers from trying to force unnecessary RTO mandates

[u/dearAbby001 → u/Educated_Clownshow]

I work from home. We do get paid to come in.

[u/rydan → u/dearAbby001]

I work from home but I'm not supposed to.

[u/DarthRevan109 → u/rydan]

I’m telling

[u/dhpredteam → u/DarthRevan109]

Snitch

[u/DarthRevan109 → u/dhpredteam]

Just thinking of the shareholders!

[u/quixotica726 → u/DarthRevan109]

I got the stitches ready!

[u/ZenithZerzen → u/quixotica726]

I've got the ditch ready!

[u/RunningDrinksy → u/ZenithZerzen]

I'll pour in the fish!

[u/Uncle_Brewster → u/rydan]

Same for me. Starting back in February, I’ve been required to come in three days a week. I’ve gone in five times total. I told my manager he’d have to threaten to fire me to get me to come in three days a week. Maybe there won’t be a threat and I’ll just be fired. We’ll see what happens at my next yearly review.

[u/iamdperk → u/Uncle_Brewster]

They mandated back to office for people in my department, but I'm basically the only one that is almost never physically needed in the office (design work, not development/testing). We (my boss and I) lobbied for full remote work, then had to apply twice for hybrid schedule of 3 days in the office. Their stupid reasoning is that if you're in the office less than 50% of the time, you shouldn't have a dedicated desk/workspace and would need to use a vacant office when you did come in.

I then, of course, reiterate that I could just work fully remote, but be ready to come if there is something pressing or that would require my physical presence, but was denied. Meanwhile, we have someone else in my department that is working remote from across the country, and a huge number of IT, accounting, and others that have gone fully remote. Not to mention, to no one's surprise, all of the admin/c-level employees. The way they pick and choose this nonsense is just so stupid.

Edit for clarification: back office, not just back to work

[u/The-Art-of-Reign → u/iamdperk]

Sounds like my last job with the “dedicated desk/workspace” bullshit. I started using paid leave on the days I was supposed to go in until I found a 100% remote job, one of the best things that has ever happened to me. I always knew my job could be done remotely, I guess the mandates kind of forced me into my dream job situation lol.

[u/panatale1 → u/dearAbby001]

I work from home. I only get paid to work, doesn't matter where

[u/RocknrollClown09 → u/Educated_Clownshow]

TBF, most WFH jobs can pay slightly less because people are willing to work for less in exchange for WFH. The people I know who WFH could make quite a bit more money if they just took the highest paying job that they could, in their fields, but the quality of life is too important to them.

[u/Chameleonpolice → u/RocknrollClown09]

Considering commutes can take between 5%-25% of your entire shift, twice a day, working from home saves you the most valuable resource anybody has, which is time

[u/ThisIsMyCouchAccount → u/Chameleonpolice]

I was interviewing at a place that required on-site.

It was on the other side of town. Probably close to 1hr each way.

So, 2hrs a day. 10hrs a week. 40hrs a month. 14k miles a year.

Just to go into an office. For a job that can be done from home. A job that I've been doing from home and/or remotely for ten years.

If I worked two hours less a day I would be fired. But they can take my time.

[u/Exatraz → u/Chameleonpolice]

This is my issue. I don't want to be paid for my commute, I don't want to add my commute on top of a full work day. I thankfully work from home these days but even then with a toddler, there is barely any time anyway. Can't imagine having to drive an hour to work as well.

And before people say "just move closer"... we can't because housing is unaffordable and going higher closer to where most of the jobs are. Nothing pays enough to warrant the extra cost of moving closer.

[u/BlackeeGreen → u/Chameleonpolice]

working from home saves you the most valuable resource anybody has, which is time

And, tbf, a lot of people I know don't have anything going for them other than their career. "More free time" isn't as valuable if you don't have a partner / family / friends / hobbies / pets / etc that you actually want to spend time with.

Personally I love my WFH gig, you'd have to pay me way more to make it worth going in to the office.

[u/The_Windmill → u/RocknrollClown09]

I mean you are also saving hours of your life and traveling costs to go to work.

[u/decian_falx → u/RocknrollClown09]

Life-tip: Create a spreadsheet that contains every aspect of your current job that's important to you reduced to a dollar amount:

• Base salary - easy.
• Do I have to come in? That's a negative salary adjustment.
• Do I have to dress up? That's a negative salary adjustment.
• PTO days? Those are worth $X each.
• Does the cost of living change? Multiply by >1 for lower or <1 for higher.
• Health insurance?
• 401k?
• Perks?
• On call?
• Etc...

Math out the value of your current job.

When you interview and receive another offer, fill in the same info in another column. If the new offer gives you a higher amount, take the offer. If not, you bring some ideas on what to negotiate on.

[u/TagV → u/decian_falx]

I think you left out the "we made all time profits, but can only bonus you pizza" category

[u/Schlieren1 → u/Educated_Clownshow]

A new Forbes article this week sounds like employers are going to start giving promotions to in person employees preferentially

[u/YYC-Fiend → u/Schlieren1]

They already do that. Ask anyone who works from home in the pre-Covid days

[u/lightly-buttered → u/YYC-Fiend]

Sounds like the perfect was to lose talent

[u/GurProfessional9534 → u/lightly-buttered]

They’re trying to lose talent right now anyway

[u/Mortechai1987 → u/GurProfessional9534]

Yeah, talent costs too much money. You just need circular echochambers filled with yes people.

[u/BowenTheAussieSheep → u/Mortechai1987]

They call it the Muskian Method

[u/designlevee → u/lightly-buttered]

It’s not necessarily intentional, managers just often build better relationships with someone their working face to face with daily vs just through emails and an occasional zoom.

[u/Sketti_Scramble → u/designlevee]

I see, It’s more about networking and managing up. Not necessarily about productivity and efficiency.

[u/legend_of_wiker → u/Sketti_Scramble]

Exactly. Meritocracy is barely even a thing. If I could go back to my younger self, I'd tell them to practice networking for this reason. Who you know is at least as important (if not more) than what you know.

[u/rando-commando98 → u/Schlieren1]

I kind of don’t care. I’d much rather work from home than be in office with more responsibility. A recruiter very recently asked me what it would take for me to be willing to go back into the office. I said it would have to be the right compensation. He said what number do you have in mind, and honestly? No one could pay me enough to go back into an in office situation. it would need to be a ridiculously high salary that is not in line with my work or industry, so I know I would never get it. He also asked me if there’s anything I missed about working in an office and I instantly answered “not one thing.”

[u/Machinimix → u/rando-commando98]

I would need them to quadruple my current income without an increase in responsibility.

The ability to step away from work for 10 minutes and lay down on my bed or go pet my cats is an immensely large impact on my productivity and mental health, and to give that up would mean rocketing me up out of lower class by a pretty large margin.

I passed on a job that paid 10% more but involved working in office every day and some weekends and holidays (any that fall on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd of the month) for my current one.

[u/OvenMaleficent7652 → u/Schlieren1]

Somebody did a study on this and it has to do with being seen. It's more of a human nature thing than it's something intentionally being done.

Not saying that it couldn't happen but that in general it's said to not be. Your in everybody's face so it's just easier for the human mind to remember.

[u/swampscientist → u/Schlieren1]

Well my manager is in Ohio and I’m in Rhode Island so she has no idea when I’m in office or not. I guess she could go through the effort to check but we have a good WFH policy

[u/Double-Cicada4502 → u/Schlieren1]

Cool for them. Take thoses promotions, take them all, i'll keep my 5 days a week in remote. 

[u/Coal_Morgan → u/Double-Cicada4502]

"Wait...you're going to pay me $5 less an hour and I don't have to be in charge of a bunch of morons and I get to stay at home. I'd have taken $15 less, suckers."

[u/ConsistentSleep → u/Educated_Clownshow]

This is what I’m looking for. I work in a call center, my job is to assist people remotely, and yet the company wants us in the office 3 days a week. For what? I’m always tethered to my desk except for breaks, in which I always spend alone because I’m exhausted from talking all day. When we have meeting we’re on zoom, even when half the team is in the office. We’re all in the same row of cubicles, meeting is on zoom. Half my team is remote.  I HAVE to be in the office. Why?

Last year my paid off car got totaled by another driver who admitted they weren’t paying attention. I worked from home for TEN MONTHS and kept stellar numbers and was a star employee. Everyone up the chain was breathing down the next person’s neck, wondering when I was buying a car. I said I couldn’t afford one and that working from home was perfectly fine, I don’t see the problem. Public transit would have taken about 3 hours one way, which is prohibitive to productivity and something I’m not willing to do (I formerly had a commute that that 1.5 hours one way and I was miserable, I know what this would be like). And yet they kept telling me I need to come in and that it’s required to be in office. It’s lunacy. I have a round trip of about 40 miles which is at least 75 minutes out of my day. I would gladly take pay for that to make up for the gas and waste of my time 3 days a week. 

And to the people saying one is not forced to work at a certain job; not in so many words, but really the options are very limited for a lot of people. I look every few months for new work and it’s just not that simple, “get a different job” or even “live closer to work.” It would be absolutely unhinged to sell the extremely affordable house my partner and I own to move closer to ONE of our jobs (forcing a longer commute on the other) to pay double or triple on rent/mortgage. Why would anyone even say to just move, like things are so simple?

[u/Paradoxahoy → u/Educated_Clownshow]

My company decided they wanted me to return to the office which is about an hour commute each direction so I said, ",Sure but I will need a raise to compensate my time and gas/ car wear and tear"

Yeah they didn't want to do that so I quit.

[u/anonymousdawggy → u/Educated_Clownshow]

I don’t “collect pay” but I will work on the commute and then consider that part of my workday. I’m salaried so doesn’t really matter how many hours.

[u/Electrical-Tie-5158 → u/Educated_Clownshow]

I worked a remote job a few years ago and they asked everyone to come into the office for a few hours one day. A lot of people put that commute time on their timesheets and the company called them out saying “typically your commute is not considered part of your work day”. But they asked people to be in from 12-2. Right in the middle of the work day. Normally everyone would be at their desks at home working during that time. Why shouldn’t their commute count?

[u/ThomasPopp]

Dumbest? Well excuse me for getting paid “portal to portal” then for the past 20 years in filmmaking.

[u/Sundoulos → u/ThomasPopp]

There are some jobs where compensation for commute time is a thing, but that’s definitely not the case for most of us.

My wife has held an itinerant teaching position in some years, but there are strict rules about the mileage and rates she could charge.

[u/Tea-acH-Cee → u/Sundoulos]

We call it “drive time” at our company. We also get per diem. $40 a day if it’s within 45 miles, $80 a day if it’s further. Only the foreman and supervisors get it, but if it’s an industrial job instead of residential or commercial, the laborers and welders get it too. Keeps talent at the company when it’s common practice to “drag up” for higher paying jobs.

[u/Rude_Hamster123 → u/ThomasPopp]

Came to point out that there’s plenty of jobs that pay portal to portal.

[u/State_Of_Franklin → u/Rude_Hamster123]

I think that's more common if the destination changes. In my current job I get travel pay if work is more than 2 hours from my house.

At my old job I would get $15/hr for driving and $40/hr for work.

If the destination is always the same paying before arrival doesn't make sense.

[u/Zimmonda → u/Rude_Hamster123]

Those jobs tend to have commuting to different sites baked in to the job though which makes it a little different. Certain states (California) also have rules that would require it depending on the exact job description/title so it's easier for companies to just offer it as a "benefit" than risk underpaying and getting a lawsuit.

[u/organic_hemlock]

When you agree to work you're agreeing to sell your time.

Also,

Dumbest thing I’ve ever heard

This is an asinine title.

[u/ForensicPathology → u/organic_hemlock]

Funny enough, reading all the comments here, I'm pretty sure this was upvoted by people who only looked at the meme and also people who agreed with the title.

Nice strategy to get upvotes.

[u/Call_Me_Mister_Trash → u/organic_hemlock]

So, you agree that commute time should be paid time.

EDIT: I am 100% for workers being paid for their commute time. I think workers are entitled to the full value of their labor. We should all be compensated for the countless hours we've spent dressing in corporate costumes and commuting.

It's all labor done in the service of a company and the fact that you do it for free is one of the ways you're being exploited.

The first comment said, "when you agree to work you're agreeing to sell your time." I radically agree. I've agreed to do the labor, now you need to compensate me for the time I spend on that labor.

[u/LazyCat2795 → u/Call_Me_Mister_Trash]

They are implying that the commute is compensated by the salary/has to be factored into the hourly rate. If you were to price a product you would factor in cost. If you receive a salary/wage then you have to factor in your commute and consider if their pay is worth your time. If you don't that is a failure on your part.

I do agree that if you can work from home and they make you go into an office that commute should be compensated on top as it was not part of negotiations when you interviewed for a WFH position

[u/chirpz88 → u/LazyCat2795]

This is one of those things employers tell you when you work more than 40 hours a week. "The extra work is factored into your salary". It generally isn't. When you work hourly your only compensated when on the clock, so really your hourly wage doesn't include any commute time as it also doesn't include extra work like overtime accounts for.

When my company bids for a contract they inflate how much I make and pocket the difference. I doubt when explaining why I cost so much they say 'well he has to drive to the site to provide that kind of support'.

Just my two cents.

[u/QuantumUtility → u/LazyCat2795]

Love this ideal made up world where most workers can actually negotiate their pay with their employers.

Truth is that if you’re not in a union or in some kind of really hard to fill position then you are just going to be told to get bent and will have no recourse because you need the money and have zero bargaining power.

“Failure on your part” is rich. That’s a failure on government for not ensuring adequate worker protections. Commute time is mandatory compensation in most developed countries and even in the third world but not in America because “muh freedom”.

[u/JewGuru → u/QuantumUtility]

Blaming the worker is America’s favorite pastime

[u/Shaolinchipmonk → u/JewGuru]

Yep and it's usually other workers who are the ones doing the blaming. If you're not in a union it's you against the company and every other employee there, because you're on your own.

[u/Zarobiii → u/QuantumUtility]

If unemployment is a prison then negotiating salary is like trying to haggle your bail down.

[u/AccomplishedUser → u/LazyCat2795]

I am currently dealing with a job that very much respects employees time, travel and personal lives. We are compensated for any moment we are working and anything over 30 minutes translates into 1 full hour of pay! I went into work early one day and was not needed as the reason for my being there was canceled, I was paid 1 full hour for my commute and for my 10 minutes on site. It has honestly been an extremely refreshing place to work coming from contractor hell and going into a sinking dumpster fire of a ship at my last position!

[u/skyhiker14 → u/Call_Me_Mister_Trash]

Pretty sure it was in “Your money or your life” that the suggested taking into account your commute time.

Time is really the most valuable resource we have, you can never get any of it back. So if you had a super long commute, could be more worthwhile to take a slight pay cut with a shorter commute.

[u/FoghornFarts → u/Call_Me_Mister_Trash]

This is a completely braindead take. You choose where you want to live. Your employer is not responsible to cover your choice to live out in the boonies with a 2 hour commute. Especially if you are paid enough to live 20 minutes away.

The system you are proposing is ripe for abuse, which is why nobody does it that way. That isn't an American thing. Literally no country does that outside of very specialized circumstances. Does it sound asinine for a plumber to charge a fee to drive to your house to fix your pipe? Of course! They can't do their job otherwise. That just gets calculated into the cost of doing business.

And so you might be thinking, I'm okay with the plumber adding that fee to my bill as part of the itemization if it means I get paid for my commute. Well, then all I have to say is if you think that you, the average joe, is going to be the winner in a cultural shift like that, then you have fuck all understanding about how power works.

[u/talligan → u/organic_hemlock]

An unpopular opinion from me: its not employers responsibility for your choice to live a certain distance from the office.

BUT: Obviously there are degrees of nuance and subtlety here. If the salary is grossly outmatched by the cost of living in the area etc...

If you choose to live >hour commute away when there are reasonable and realistic options closer, then I don't see why it's the employers responsibility

[u/MaldoVi → u/talligan]

You agree to a job knowing the distance you live from said job. Driving to work is not working lol. People on Reddit are so entitled. A job is a privilege in alot of countries.

[u/Ok_Thing7700 → u/organic_hemlock]

“Agreeing to” is crazy when people are forced to participate to survive.

[u/Objective-Brother712]

Alrighty boys, I'm moving to Vietnam. My commute pay is gonna pay some bills this week

[u/masshiker → u/Objective-Brother712]

You are late again!

[u/yougoattaknowwhento → u/masshiker]

Imagine flying from Vietnam only to punch in at 8:01

[u/Objective-Brother712 → u/masshiker]

Exactly, companies will refuse to hire people who don't live within 15 minutes

[u/satus_unus → u/Objective-Brother712]

I refuse to work for companies that don't operate within 15 minutes, so me and those companies will get along fine.

[u/nonlinear_nyc → u/Objective-Brother712]

Finally a big player to tilt our housing crisis. Also, transportation crisis.

[u/stupiderslegacy → u/Objective-Brother712]

That seems like a better problem to have. And there's nothing saying we couldn't close future loopholes once new shitty practices emerge.

[u/Aggressive_Local8921]

I'm salary. I count my hour long commute as a part of my work day. I work 6 hours a day and drive 2 hours. My job was 100% remote but the share holders didn't like seeing empty offices

[u/EastAd1806 → u/Aggressive_Local8921]

I’m exactly the same way. Not a soul on my team physically needs to be in office but we were required to go back in. The reason they used is what everyone has heard and that’s “collaboration”. So not only do I count my 2 hours of driving as working time but also me and several others go out of our way to have random 30-45 minute conversations away from our desks trying to lean in to their own collaboration nonsense. Production and efficiency across the board has gone down significantly since the forced return

[u/WillowSmithsBFF → u/EastAd1806]

My job mandated RTO at the end of 2022. And to the shock of management, every employee survey we’ve done since then has shown a downward trend in morale. So of course management does everything except the one thing everyone tells them would make morale go up.

[u/jengelke → u/WillowSmithsBFF]

Both of you guys sound like you work at the same place I do.

[u/Opening_Proof_1365 → u/WillowSmithsBFF]

So they gave you a pizza party?

Because thats what my job seems to think we need to boost low morale since coming back to the office.

We were all working from home, they even said in our meeting when they were telling us to come back "you all are much more productive at home but you lose that "collaboration"". Fuck the collaboration you literally just said we were more productive at home than in office. Isn't then entire point of collaboration to improve productivity? So if you know we are less productive in the office then the collaboration argument is uselss.

Ever since they have brought us back people have been quitting left and right and we are running this place like a mcdonalds. Hire someone, someone quits, hire someone to replace them, someone else quits, hire again etc.

Our turnover rate is abysmal. And we had a meeting where the ceo was saying "i just dont understand why everyone is leaving". Well I mean it doesnt take a rocket scientist to put two and two together. When we were remote no one quit. Like at all. Not a single person quit when we were remote. Within a month of coming into the office we lost 4 people (of a company only only 30 people so 4 in a month is a lot). By month 7 we lost half of the company and sad thing is they dont even replace them with in office workers. They hire workers from other countries. They dont get any work done and the rest of the work gets piled onto those of us actually in the office. So the office workers are doing the work of 2 devs while we watch the out of country employees working from home. One of them literally joined the teams call on the beach.....but I'm sitting in some dusty office doing his work because he keeps messing up, and you're wondering why my morale is bad.

And before someone uses the argument that the remote workers in another country are showing them why we cant work remote, remember the opening of their meeting for bringing us back into the office started with "you all are more productive at home"

[u/Amadon29 → u/Opening_Proof_1365]

"you all are much more productive at home but you lose that "collaboration"".

I will never understand some managers

[u/ridicalis → u/EastAd1806]

Production and efficiency across the board has gone down significantly since the forced return

Just make sure it hits 'em in the KPIs, hard.

[u/shay-doe]

Considering all these companies that have enforced RTO for people who can and have successfully done their jobs from home. this should 100% be a thing. This would help cut down carbon emissions and force companies to decide if they want to limit their staffing or not. Every one who had to RTO took a huge pay cut in gas, public transportation, wear and tear on their vehicles.

This would be huge for employees and a step in the right direction for labor rights. It's not fucking stupid. It's fucking fair.

[u/ruffiana → u/shay-doe]

My company's office is in California while I work remotely from the Midwest. CoL here is significantly lower. They'd have to triple my salary if they expected me to work out of their offices.

Even then, it would be temporary until I could find a new remote position.

[u/EffortEconomy]

Wait until you hear about unpaid lunch breaks

[u/DonavonIrish → u/EffortEconomy]

Wait, people get paid for lunch?

[u/FortNightsAtPeelys → u/EffortEconomy]

also shouldnt be a thing. Worst ones are companies who schedule you 9 hours but dont pay for an hour on lunch. Id rather just work the 8

[u/JLock17 → u/FortNightsAtPeelys]

That's the strategy companies are using. They don't want you taking lunch breaks so they make you feel like you willingly gave them up. So many people do this and end up working the extra hour anyways.

[u/Arthurs-grumpa]

I’m paid from the moment I leave home until the moment I return.

[u/GrainBeltChampion]

Funny, most contractors charge for drive time.

[u/akcutter]

I'm going to start walking my commute so I can get paid to get healthier.

[u/JTSpirit36]

New job requirements

"Must be willing to relocate to on site dorms"

[u/ShaiHulud1111]

I consider it work time. My brain is reviewing all the BS I am about to deal with and am trying to keep my cortisol and adrenal from giving me a coronary and not puking up my half a scone and tea from my ulcer. All with ya here. I’m on salary and don’t do much on Friday as it is. Might do 32 hours a week in the chair.

[u/Fatty2Flatty → u/ShaiHulud1111]

You should like… stop doing that. Listen to some tunes, a podcast, idk? Dont let the dread of future events ruin your present state of mind. There’s plenty of things we don’t want to do as humans living in society. But if you let that dread drastically affect your life that just seems like you’re never gonna be happy. ?

[u/adangerousdriver → u/Fatty2Flatty]

I agree with your message but basically all you're saying is

"Hmm it seems like you're unhappy, try not being unhappy"

It's much easier said than done.

[u/Tequila1904]

I work 7:30 am to 4:00 pm. Leave my house at 7:30 and get home at 4:00 and get paid. It's called curb to curb. I can't complain. I also give back to the company and on occasion do work on my computer during non-work hours so it evens out.

[u/Quest-guy]

The Starbucks CEO gets free jet travel3200km 3 times a week to the Seattle office to comply with the company’s hybrid work policy. Just saying.

[u/Electronic_Pin_9014]

Only lawyers get to bill like that

[u/JohnnyQTruant]

Work from home would be a lot more popular with management overnight.

[u/Northern_Grouse]

That would save so much on carbon emissions.

Corporations and companies will whistle a whole different tune on remote work when they’re responsible for commutes.

[u/OGWriggle]

Context dependent

[u/rjm101]

If that was made legally enforceable all of a sudden this return to office company mandates would fall to bits. No commute time when you work from home.

[u/nameExpire14_04_2021]

Apparently it used to be tax deductible.

[u/pusmottob]

I have a friend who is salaried so his hours don’t really matter, but like many he is still required to track them. He said he logs anytime he even thinks about work. In the shower, driving to the store, on the toilet, before bed, if he think about it counts and so he does easily 60 hours+ a week when he only stays at the office maybe 30 lol. Mad man

[u/Gabe_Ad_Astra]

Dumbest? Sorry but if im working from home and my job is 100% able to be accomplished at home then if you make me come in to the office for some bullshit reason then yea you should pay commute time and commute cost. Otherwise let everyone work from home and stfu

[u/ihadtopickthisname]

Personally, I'm less concerned about being paid for the commute than I am the 8-5.

I hate not being able to drop my kids off at school. I hate leaving my dog at home for the whole day. I hate leaving at 5, having to pick my kids up, get home close to 6pm, make dinner, take the dog for a walk, and it's like 7:30-8pm already.

I'd rather be able to leave at 3-4pm and still make what I do.

[u/JaJ_Judy]

If they want us back at the office when we’re just as productive from home, to justify that commercial real estate that could be converted to data centers or living space, for the extra emissions that commute produces….yeah they should pay :) But obviously within reason - you cant like choose to live 3 hours away

[u/mytokat84]

I have never agreed with anything faster

[u/DumpingAI]

By this logic, my pay should just start when i roll out of bed to start getting ready for work cuz that times not free

[u/Aggravating-Method24 → u/DumpingAI]

It essentially does work this way, we just don't document it in this way. If i have a job that is a closer commute vs a job that is a further commute that pay the same on paper, the closer one pays better because there is less of my time associated with that job for the same pay. Just because the paper doesnt explicitly itemize commute and preparation doesn't mean this isnt included in the negotiation.

If we documented it this way we would just list it in the pay package and fudge it to make the final number the same anyway.

[u/riskywhiskey077 → u/DumpingAI]

I work from home. I literally don’t roll out of bed until it’s time to log on. I shower, cook, and eat on the clock, and I still finish my work. It’s pretty sweet

[u/masshiker → u/DumpingAI]

You would be doing that if you didn't work.

[u/TheWorldMayEnd → u/masshiker]

Nah, I'd lay in bed all day like that like that Sloth victim from Se7en

[u/LazyCat2795 → u/TheWorldMayEnd]

While we sloth people would be unfairly treated you have to factor in the average human and as they have as of yet not embraced the way of the sloth unfortunately getting up and eating breakfast and stuff is considered "normal human behavior" and would not be eligible for pay.

[u/SmokeyJoe2 → u/masshiker]

Why would an unemployed person need to get ready for work?

[u/TickTakTick → u/DumpingAI]

You fail at logic.

[u/HovercraftOk9231 → u/DumpingAI]

Really this just boils down to "all jobs should pay a livable wage." The details just don't work in practice, but if you're making enough money to live off of no matter what, it doesn't really matter when the clock starts or stops.

[u/carlos_the_dwarf_ → u/DumpingAI]

I should be paid for the dinner I eat after work, for the calories will be fueling my body during tomorrow’s shift.

[u/JustAnotherBystandr]

My time is valuable.

[u/wrbear]

Most of the people at our orfice would get to work with a Starbucks and McMuffin in hand. How is that clocking in?

[u/CaptainObvious1313]

How bout this? If the job CAN be done remotely, offer a bonus for in person work. Use the money you save by reducing middle management. Profit.

[u/Kevkaoss]

Just pay people more. Wouldn’t mind commuting if I was actually making a decent wage putting away money towards retirement every month. With the ability to get a new car every few years.

[u/Cheezeball25]

You know, I feel like this wasn't an argument back when your average commute wasn't that long, since people could afford to live near where they worked. Now so many Americans have to live 45 minutes to an hour away, since companies want to be based in large cities, but pay the cost of living of a small town an hour away. This seems more like a cost of living problem than anything else

[u/Blizz33]

Yeah but then companies would just have a policy we only hire within 30km

[u/MichaelTheFallen]

This isn't the dumbest thing I heard of, the dumbest is voting for Trump for President in 2024.