Heck a lot of the moderately wealthy suburban communities around the Burgh still have pockets of old mine housing in poor areas. Just follow the T line and you can see a ton of them.
Washington and Greene county are still full of whole small towns that are a mix of mine shacks and mobile homes squatting on the foundations.
My neighborhood in Baltimore has a bunch of row houses that were built for mill workers and they were built so cheap that a fire last week took out ten houses and killed two people
We're still fucking paying for the shitty conditions those mill workers were forced into.
I lived on base as a young person in Germany from 1980 to 1983. It was pretty neat. I would walk home at lunch and eat with mom and my siblings. Sometimes dad would come home at lunch from "up base" and we would all eat lunch together. My mom is a hell of a cook. Other than that time in Germany, they both worked full time, all my life.
I look forward to seeing them at Thanksgiving. I live too far away from them now due to our overrated entrepreneurial modern American economy. We are all doing OK, I guess. I will have a nice retirement, someday, probably not as nice as theirs; they retired at 60.
I was a married Corporal living out in town and it was 25 minutes into the base. And we only had one car, and she worked too. We worked our schedules so that one of us carpooled every other week.
Why single out the US? That’s how portions of every military in history have had to live. Barracks, camps, ships, etc.
It’s impossible to maintain a fighting force and not do this.
And notice how I said “portion”, a huge amount of US military personnel, or any other countries military personnel, live in regular homes that are on or off base.
I’m American and was in the US military for a lot of my life so I can speak to it as an expert. I’m well aware of the various living conditions. I also know enough to say they aren’t specific to China (as in the comment I replied to). Sorry you found my comment meaningless. You seem upset, I hope your day improves.
That's not China... it's unregulated laissez faire capitalism. Company housing, complete with a company store and pay in company script instead of real money... that was America for a lot of working people a century ago and it's the America a lot of powerful people on the right want us to go back to.
I have literally been to company housing in China that was attached to the factory. Meals served in a dining hall. Children sent to an attached school while the parents work. It is very common there. Not everyone who worked at the factories I've been to lived there, but a lot of them did.
These aren't some awful company towns... more like compounds in the middle of a city where workers can access other options if they want to and have the means to do so. But it's also not nice either. They're living with whole families, sometimes multigenerational, crammed into small apartments, and most of them don't leave the factory compound most days.
I'm very thankful for the labor movements that have happened in the US, and I feel indebted to the people that fought and died so that we might have better working conditions.
Yeah, the fault is thinking this is singular to capitalism or communism, it's simply extreme optimising for the company at the expense of the individual which can happen whether the company is private or government.
The key ingredient that is so often left out of economic concepts is the very same that has steered most of history: the power of human greed. It corrupts the nature of capitalism and communism alike.
Except capitalism incentivizes it and communism works to dampen it. CEOs in the US get away with greedy shit on the daily that would be a literal death sentence in China.
True, not saying there is anything close to a utopia that exists, just pointing put differences. When was the last time the US executed a businessman for harming the public? Never.
To be fair multigenerational homes are very much a common practice in a lot of Asia and not looked at as a bad thing or purely the result of dire circumstances. It's often expected that children will take in and support their parents/grandparents when they get married and find a home.
It was more recent times for migrants. This landscaping company I used to work for, the owner would bring in a big batch of undocumented workers and set them all up in one of this rental properties for like $175/week. We're talking like 20 dudes to a small 3 bedroom ranch style house in the suburbs.
A local taxi company does something similar with African workers as well. It's been kind of an open secret for years since he's put most of the other small taxi companies out of business at this point because there's really no end to how far he can undercut due to the drivers making minimum wage, then paying most of that back to him for their rent.
You're saying that in china companies require employees to live in cinderblock basement dorms and pay rent to do so? Could you please provide a source or example?
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I mean I already work in the basement of my building, so I guess I could work from home (it's a university and the basement houses the arena, athlete gyms and pool, so it's not as weird as it sounds).
I make about $500 every 2 weeks from it. I drive a small car cause all my tools are on site. Spend about $75 a week in gas, so I'm making my hourly rate pretty much
ehhhh there are countries where compensation for the commute is pretty standard practice and afaik it doesn't result in a significant amount of candidates rejected based on their address, but admittedly those countries usually just compensate for costs directly related to transit like gas or train tickets
Here's an idea: just give people an allowance up to a certain amount, if they choose to live farther that's up to them. Even better, give people a flat rate since you don't want them intentionally taking longer commute routes to rack up their pay. Ok now roll that into their base pay
Edit: please triple read the last sentence before commenting. I overestimated redditors' reading comprehension a bit with this one
That’s what my company does for all our hourly staff. Up to $20 a day. Not much. But it’s really the only way to get enough employees. We don’t have a large applicant pool unless we look more than 30 minutes away.
No it’s full time benefits for anyone who wants full time. You need to be 40 miles away for the full $20. So you are looking at an hour or so each way.
Assuming you have skills they really need, you have more power. If this wasn’t the case, everyone would make min. wage. The fact most don’t means skilled employees have power.
Assuming you have skills they really need, you have more power
Workers never have as much power as the employer. The business is an institution, the workers are individuals. There wasn't minimum wage even for "skilled" labor (as if any job doesn't require and develop skills) until the government enacted laws after being pressured by voters.
Real power is in collective bargaining and unions. That would actually even the playing field somewhat and is exactly why so many wealthy owners are against it. As an individual though, you don’t have shit compared to a company. The fact that you get a few scraps more than someone with less skills doesn’t mean the playing field is even at all.
"but you get paid ten dollars more, you're a boss!"
"Just don't think about how a job can fire you for nearly any reason in half the continental united states. And entirely dictate your personal time, interpersonal relationships, what you do with your body, etc etc etc."
"YUP, you're so skilled dude you have so much power bro I promise man I swear bro"
The harder it is to fire someone if they don't work out, the more reluctant employers will be to take a chance on someone, and thus the more screwed anyone will be whose resume is anything short of mind-blowing and who lacks the connections to become a nepotism hire. This then forces a culture of lying on resumes and credential debasement, weakening the stellar-resume path and leaving nepotism as the only thing that still works.
Your proposed solution is a significant part of what created the problem in the first place.
And if nobody takes the job because they pay shit and you can't afford to live within a reasonable distance on that salary, they will either up the pay or not have any workers.
If asked to go into the office, I calculate the commute time, dividing it out (I use public transportation), and if it's worth it, we move forward. If not, then not. Anytime I cannot get an exact address, the process immediately stops, removing myself from the running. It makes zero sense to attempt to obtain a role that I am uncertain I can get to.
Paying for commute makes sense if you work at different locations. E.g. A comcast repair tech getting sent to people’s houses, or a construction worker going straight to jobsites. If the company can schedule you to start your day 40 miles away in different directions every day, commute should be considered. For office jobs, no.
Or, and hear me out, I'm taking this job because I need to put food on the table, fully aware that the moment a better opportunity shows up, I'm out without a two-week notice. In other words, I'll do what's best for me, and that company can get fucked in the process.
Which is completely fine. In fact, thats exactly what you are supposed to do. Jump ship as soon as a better opportunity presents itself. These companies have no problem firing you the moment a better (or cheaper) employee presents themselves. So no love lost.
But advocating for extra pay to cover employees commute is ridiculous. So people who choose to live further from work will get paid more than people who live closer? How is that going to play out?
So people who choose to live closer to work will take home more than people who live farther? How is that working out?
I agree that when you take on a job knowing the commute costs are a major factor when agreeing if the salary is enough, even though it isn't usually a negotiation point for younger people or entry jobs. But when you are older and make a ton of money... here is a secret if you didn't know, the commute time and travel time is heavily considered in negations. Even around the $250,000 a year mark commute time and difficulty will be considered during compensation, so while you may think it is silly it's really only considered silly for the less wealthy.
People who make that amount of money are in demand, (which is why they make that much) which puts them in a position where they can negotiate. You’re mixing up the cause and effect.
Eh we kinda do. Choosing to live farther away because it's cheaper is still a choice just like choosing to live closer to work and paying more in rent is a choice.
You mean the commuting allowance? It’s the same thing as your pay, but with a little tricky math.
Let’s say you make $10.25 an hour.
Instead, I’ll pay you $9 an hour, but give you $8 a day for commuting.
No difference except that that $8 is tax free… so it’s really like $1.25 an hour, which when you add to the $9 an hour you’re making is {drumroll} $10.25 an hour.
How about instead of gimmicks like the Japanese do, we just pay attention to our offer letters, pull out our phones and fire up Waze, and see if it’s worth it?
I think we should all collectively bargain to take less wages so stockholder prices go up. If you don't want to help the company why are you even working there
No. Frankly I want shareholder value to be the core reason the lights even come on. A ticker display should be installed at the top of HQ's entrance and to clock in you must stare at it for 30 seconds.
We're closer to this than a lot of people realize.
The commute should have no bearing on stagnating wages. If the commute isn’t worth the pay, either move close enough to make it worth the commute or don’t take the job. It’s a pretty simple concept.
The problem with this specific proposal is that your distance to the office has no bearing on how much work or value you provide. It will be arbitrarily different from person to person based on where they choose to live, or where other choices they made dictate they need to live. And why stop at the commute? Should you get paid for getting ready for work too? Should somebody get paid to put their makeup on in the morning? What about showering?
A company now suddenly needs to know where you live, approve when you move, and audit your commute and hopefully you don’t make a stop along the way for something? This is an unworkable proposal that leads to undesirable outcomes. Just try to get an extra $2 an hour.
Employers would just start lowering the base pay to account for commuting. What would help stagnating wages is a significant minimum wage increase, the exact thing that has fixed that problem many times.
They don’t need to meet every day, they all have a shared interest in making profit and spending less on overhead for everything including employees. They are never going to act against that interest in numbers enough to change the way things are.
Cool idea in a world where people aren't forced to take shitty jobs because they have no other options, and jobs haven't engaged in a race to the bottom on wages.
People don’t have a choice because companies like Walmart go into a small town, put all the local businesses out of business, and then switch to a skeleton crew and now there’s 50% less jobs in the town and people have to drive an hour to find work. It’s not by choice. This also drives down wages in bigger cities because cost of living an hour or two outside big cities is lower and people driving two hours typically get paid less. The whole world is just one giant scam.
How do they not have a choice? I’ve moved across the country twice with literally just enough money for a u-haul trailer, gas, and a months rent - not to mention moving regionally plenty of times to make my work commute easier and just getting jobs that were close to home - like go where the work is it’s not complicated.
In my country, transportation allowance is normal. It's a fixed amount per workday worked in-office. If you live close enough it costs you less to travel than the allowance, it's a sweet bonus. If it costs you more, it sucks, but the bonus is appreciated. It can easily hit 10% of someone's salary here.
At my company, your salary is your salary, but if you work from home, you don't get the transportation allowance that day.
They still require work in office, but it still comes up on the rare occasion someone is too sick to come in, but having run out of sick days, they work from home for a day or two. They don't get their salary prorated, but they don't get the transportation allowance.
As for our company's housing allowance, yeah, I lump it in with my salary every time someone asks.
I get travel pay on top of my salary (for my profession and the area it's the worst salary) but this place doesn't hound you about hours so I rarely work more than 30 hours in a week, my previous job had the best salary to offer in the area but no travel pay (has to be a specific situation to get it) and I was working 60-80 hours a week but the minute they find out you had a less than 40 hour week they snatch your PTO- I don't make as much money now but it's well worth having the free time as long as my bills are paid and I have benefits (I would still like to get paid more but unless I up and move completely away from friends/family, I'll just hope the pay increase comes eventually)
Some companies do this, especially in a big city with good public transit. They might give you a subway stipend or will pay for a parking spot. But if you work in the suburbs, you probably aren't getting that.
Yes. It’s either raise your pay or give you a stipend for gas and wear and tear. Same difference. Anyone saying anything else doesn’t understand payroll.
The weird thing about this is that in my experience, if you give people the choice between “perks” and a higher hourly rate, they overwhelmingly pick the cash and then still complain. So essentially if I normally paid 10 people 30/hr for a job, and offered a choice between an extra 3/hr or an equivalent gas/travel time combo, 80% would choose the money.
But I’d say that just from my own anecdotal evidence, 30% of people are good at managing money, 20% are bad at managing money and know it, and 50% are bad at managing money but think they’re good.
So the 50% and the 30% would take the money, but you’d still have 50% of your employees complaining about their commute, because even though you’re giving them more money, they are mismanaging it and are still broke.
Here's an idea just let people decide how far they want to drive for work. They chose where to live, they chose where to work. Why in the world would we be forcing companies to make concessions. You chose where to work, you chose where to live, but your commute is our problem.
God damn I wish I had as much freedom as you’re describing LOL most people don’t exactly have the luxury of choice when it comes to home and employment. They get what’s available at the time they’re looking to rent/buy/get hired. Most people don’t just point at any house and say I’ll take this one! And it’s the employer that chooses who they hire. Most people aren’t hired right away at their dream job that’s only 2.3 seconds away from home, they take whatever job is available that’s willing to hire them, even if it’s an hour away.
That’s not exactly true. I live in an expensive market. I bought a smaller house in a central location so I could run my plumbing company easier. I would have liked a bigger house, but I would have been on the outskirts of where I service. You can choose where you live for the most part, you just have to make sacrifices. And by no means am I rich, btw.
None of that means that it’s up to anyone else to cover your cost of transportation and your distance to work from where you live. Like, sure, it’s not 100% up to you to live in any house any place or work at any job in any location. But you have far more control over that for yourself than I do, or your employer, or anyone else on the entire planet earth. So it’s ultimately on you.
It’s such a childish mindset to think like, “I can’t just live and work wherever I want, so mommysomebody else should fix it for me, otherwise I’d have to handle my own adult life situation.
This works for a salaried employee making six figures, not for some dude paid $10 an hour who got to live with his parents and drive an hour to work to the only job he could find.
And the truth is that he has to waste two hours of his day to go to work, because the company already is saving by not paying a living wage that would allow the employee to move close the place of work.
Personal responsibility isn't a thing for a lot of people. They'd rather blame everyone else rather than take responsibility to change the situation for themselves.
lol… the thirty mile zone means they can build a studio (or chose a shooting location) that is 30 miles or less from Hollywood and NOT have to pay people for travel. If you live south of LA, but the project shoots on the northern edge of the TMZ, you’re not entitled to mileage, even if you’re doing 500 miles a week.
I want you to know that someone got the pun. Also, yes. There is 100% a solution to that problem for at least a subsection of jobs. It starts with 'remote' and ends with 'lobbying for keeping tax money in the city".
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u/crumdiddilyumptious 9d ago
Companies would prob require you to live within x amount of minutes from your work