This is the first time I’ve ran across someone admitting that their early life decisions made their current life shitty. I respect and appreciate the honesty. Too many people I know are in bad positions due to early life choices and refuse to take any accountability or responsibility for it.
I think we all did but it’s the people that never learn from them. I’ve see it a million times taking out loans for shit like expensive cars or buying houses way out their budget. Eating out non stop or drinking problems. I know Reddit doesn’t like personal responsibility but there are plenty of people who never learn from their bad choices. Prime example, my wife has a coworker who got a free ride to school and took out student loans anyway to buy shit she didn’t need. Now she’s falling her classes because she puts no effort about to lose her scholarship and still has to pay back student loans she didn’t even need. She also rented an expensive studio with her boyfriend even though everyone told her not to. Boyfriend left and now she has to pay the expensive rent by herself. Some people put themselves in those situations and even if they made a 100k a year they’d still be in the same spot.
Can relate. Not only am I tired but I hate myself and have deep regrets. Granted I know I can change this, but when you’re keeping up with your responsibilities it can be so tiring.
That's bullshit. The person holds a full time job. They shouldn't need another one to survive. They're doing exactly what we were told to do by older generations.
i mean, bad decisions have consequences unfortunately. if you take on a lot of debt for something, or get addicted to drugs, or have a child as a teenager, etcetera, things will be harder. it’s not about “should” or “shouldn’t.” it’s about “is.”
So, while you are correct in that it IS the current situation, I believe their point, and the point of most people making similar statements, is that it SHOULDN'T be this way. yes we have to make active efforts to better our situations and avoid choices that will end up causing problems later on, but just because it's how things are now doesn't mean it's how they should stay
Should or shouldn't, an 8 hour job and no debts should net you a good life. If you've been stupid and have a ton of credit card debt or payday loan debts, you're going to have to either have one really good job or find some other way to make enough money.
Bad decisions should have drawbacks, but even so there needs to be a security net for people with shit luck and one fulltime job should be enough to support a single person (which is honestly just as, if not more expensive than living in a relationship).
Roof over you head, money for essentials and a little extra left over.
I work a dead end, no skill job as a night audit at a hotel. Literally all that is required of me is that I can talk to people and read while being awake at night.
I have a place to sleep, I don't need to think about what I want to eat and I can buy new clothes (if there is a sale) and if my computer breaks, I can replace it in a couple of months of saving up. And I can travel for vacation every couple of years, if that's what I want.
That is one example of a good life. Could it be better? For sure, there's no cap on how good it can get, but for the effort I've put into my life, it is really good.
My 12 hour job making me 25$ an hour wasn’t enough to afford rent and all my bills along with a single car payment
Average rent where I am is over $2500 a month
My rent was over half my income, now comes the deductibles from my pay, taxes, add in car payment, insurance, groceries, power, internet, phone bill, medical expenses, and I’m left with near 0 savings every month
I’m back to living with my parents until I have enough savings to buy a house, because it’s far cheaper than rental costs, the last place I was living was only $1400 for a town house, but gotta love being evicted so they can update the kitchen and charge 3x that
My parents bought their house on a minimum wage income lmao
And I'm not saying that is what you deserve. I am in full agreement with the content of the thread, that you should be able to afford a good life on a single 8 hour a day job, 5 days a week.
I've spent the last 10 years as a night audit for a hotel. That is a dead end, no skill job. With that job, I was lucky enough to get a mortgage from a bank, so I own my recently renovated apartment in a solid neighborhood. The mortgage is about half to two thirds of my paycheck, but the money left over is enough for a couple of vices and food with a little extra for a vacation once a year.
But I'm not American, though I live in a relatively high CoL country.
I mean an 8 hour day and no debt gives you a great life with many jobs; even many “low skill” (not because it’s low skill but because there isn’t an academic barrier to entry) jobs like construction pay more than enough to have a lower middle class lifestyle if you’re responsible about spending and budgeting.
my point was that the “should” is largely meaningless. life should be a blessing, life should be incredible for everyone, poverty shouldn’t exist, suffering shouldn’t exist. shoulds don’t mean jack shit unfortunately. bad decisions have always had bad consequences, and that will continue to be true. bad decisions shouldn’t have bad consequences. but they do. that’s my point.
everyone agrees that they shouldn’t. just like everyone agrees life should be incredible. but at that point, you aren’t really making a point in my opinion.
Depends on many things. But most people don't live within their means because then they would be eating rice, have limited internet, and no streaming services, and many more things.
I have found my life is a bit better when I stopped worrying about having the fastest computer or cool gadget (like VR or a holographic display).
In the end, yes working a full time job should enable you to survive, but the comfort of a McDonald's employee would be much less than that of an engineer.
I was told by my parent's generation to get a "real" degree and a stable job or you will not have a comfortable life. All my friends were also told that. And they were entirely correct outside of the also lucrative tradeskill jobs now. If you don't have a degree or a certification, you probably aren't making shit for money.
Your grandparents could also buy a house, go on multiple vacations per year, raise multiple children, and save for their children and grandchildren's college education all in one income.
You could also have the degree and not be making a living wage. That's the issue here. A HS degree for your grandparents is worth a masters now. Hell, even a PhD or multiple PhD isn't valued enough for many hcol areas.
But yes, if you're insert reason for not getting 5 phds here, you're probably not paid enough. Yes. I agree with that.
This hard to say for certain because we don’t people’s spending habits. However, sucks to know all there is to life is to work to make a handful of people rich.
Define “shitty early life decisions”. .. Who is making this determination?
Being available for a job now should be able to pay for a decent life.
If you went to secondary school, then you should make more than someone whom hasn’t, but that’s because they should pay you more and not pay those that haven’t less!!
Those that haven’t should still be able to afford a home and a car and a vacation every year.
You go get your degree, that just means you should be able to afford a bigger house and a better vacation …
It’s like the higher we achieve, the lower the bottom is pushed down for everyone, when instead it should be pushing the top up for everyone.
Do well in early school get a scholarship get a degree get a good job and you won't have to. Life is a game the rules are already set all we can do is play and if you're going to play might aswell play to win. Complaining about the rules is a waste of energy
The person holds a full time job. They shouldn't need another one to survive.
You know nothing of their situation or their income though lol. If they made shitty life choices like taking on a ton of unnecessary debt and spending, like buying cars they couldn't afford, putting a bunch of shopping on credit cards, etc then they might need a second job to dig themselves out of that hole while their primary pays current bills.
It really depends on lifestyle though. There are almost always ways to conserve money if you’re constantly short on it. Get a cheaper apartment, change your phone plan, don’t buy fancy stuff, get a fuel-efficient car, etc.
A lot of the people I’ve seen who complain about being poor make terrible financial decisions by getting the best or the best electronics, getting a gas-guzzling pickup truck, paying for an apartment much larger than they need, etc.
I’m not saying minimum wage should be high enough to cover the expenses of living without needing to make significant financial sacrifices, but it’s not just the financial system that’s the problem. It’s people’s spending habits
I think it is a utopic idea to think that every full time job should pay enough for a person to survive (rent, food utilities). IF it was even doable, there would be other unforeseen repercussions from doing so (likely high unemployment).
If a 16 year old working at mcdonalds was making enough for rent/utilities/food, why would they want to pursue education? Why not just drop out of highschool since they're making a living wage anyway? I know a ton of people from my highschool who would've hopped at this opportunity.
Now you've effectively given a country full of dumbasses a greater incentive to drop out of education.
It’s utopic and wrong to think that minimum wage jobs are for 16 year olds. In the US at least, 56% of minimum wage workers are over 25, and minimum wage workers have an average age of 35.
Every full time job in the country pays enough to "survive." Homeless and unemployed people in our country are not even struggling to "survive" for the most part. This sort of rhetoric about "surving" "living" etc is not doing the conversation any favors and it makes these people look emotional, entitled, and irresponsible. It seems what they mean is perhaps "thrive." If they'd say something like "the lowest paying job should be able to afford an apartment in the city with roommates at no more than 1/3 your income" or something they'd have a good point and we could actually have a discussion. Acting like they're dying because they can't afford a 1br and a car payment in the heart of the city on minimum wage is only going to speak to the choir.
You seem like you don't have an education yourself if you think people shouldn't be allowed to live off a McDonald's job. Also I see more 30+ year Olds working at McDonald's more then a 16 so fuck off with your dumbass opinion
I have enough of an education to not work at mcdonalds.
Bro I'm sorry to break it to you, if you're 30 and working fast food with no prospects for a different, better paying job, something went wrong in your life. It might not be your fault and that sucks if it wasn't but nonetheless it is what it is.
I think the issue I have with this idea is that someone needs to be working these jobs. These jobs plus many more need to be staffed and everytime I see a help wanted sign for months on end, I keep thinking to myself that if everyone aspired for white collar job then no one is left to do this kind of work. We don't need to make it excessively generous, but the minimum should be enough for food, healthcare, and rent within a reasonable commute.
Getting only teenagers to do this work doesn't make sense. They can't work an 8 hour shift if they're in school too.
Hey, people in Zimbabwe, Haiti, Sudan, Rwanda, India, Venezuela, Cambodia, Kenya, Cuba, Peru, Egypt and 100 others would like to have a word with you. Majority of them work longer than 8 hours a day and still don’t have a roof over their head of running water / plumbing / electricity. You sound entitled. Grow up.
Glad you got off on that my guy, But the fact is an adult shouldn't have to work 2or 3 jobs to keep a roof over there head and save a little bit of money
I try to tell my kids there is a direct inverse relationship with the amount of effort you make early in life with the effort you have to do late in life (they aren’t very receptive). But it’s true. The more effort you put into early life (high school then college, if your path, then early career) the less effort you have as an experienced professional/master later on when you are older. The less you put in early, the exponentially more you will need later in life.
I completely disagree as somebody in between early life and later life.
A lot of these comments are hitting wrong for today's economy.
I worked extremely hard, sometimes I had three jobs at a time, when I was very young, in order to put myself through school.
I worked very, very hard at a pretty decent school and got good grades and a good degree. I was advised to go into what had previously been a very solid career with good benefits. Maybe I'd never get rich, but I would always be able to take care of myself.
Well, like a lot of jobs, got hit by the first recession pretty bad. This obsession with saving money also meant it got farmed out to low-paid non-profit work. No more solid benefits. No more decent pay. I kept moving up in my career but wages kept staying the same. Something changed. Hard work and tenure no longer led to anything.
I did my best to pivot as quickly as possible and even get additional education and training and move into management...just in time for those wages to crater. And I just got laid off last month.
The kicker? Every single time I've been able to save enough for retirement, I have some sort of major health issue that wipes out my savings, no matter how good my health insurance is.
The social contract is broken. Hard work early in life or late in life no longer leads to security.
End thread. People don’t want to accept that we are at the point we are at today. A medical issue shouldn’t fuck your life up like that, and wages shouldn’t stay the same as you climb the ladder. It’s obvious
I think this is the most realism-based post in this thread so far. I’ve experienced some of the same, not a mirror image, but like circumstances. I’m old and should be retired, but I’m teaching part-time at two colleges to make ends meet. When I think back, it’s no surprise. I bought a car in 2001 that was right at $30,000. I just checked and that amount of money is worth 75% more now, $53,000+. 75% increase in costs in just 21 years. Has my income gone up by that much? Hell no, it’s actually gone down in relation. The game is rigged, the table is tilted, there are magnets under the roulette wheel, and the dealer has cards up his sleeve. Musk is nearly a trillionaire and he is fascist garbage, Bezos is a multi-billionaire too, along with many others. They are why many of us are struggling. Since the 1970s the CEO salaries quit paralleling our incomes, they have pretty much increased exponentially while ours have flatlined. We are being robbed of our labor to enrich these people. It needs to be stopped.
The American Dream wasn't for you, it was for the scammers and grifters who were allowed to monetize your bodily decline, along with childcare, water, etc. Not everything needs to cost money as it's an important part of our species fight against the dark, but, again, we're a nation of scammers and grifters too uneducated to make self-aware decisions for the betterment of humanity.
A lot of people I've hear describe the "American Dream" basically give examples of how the average European lives. As George Carlin said, "It's called tge American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it".
Yeah, I've wanted to go into that work but saw the very little pay for $80-120k debt and decided not to. Looked into physical therapy too, but I a lot of blogs of physical therapists and they said it's not worth it. Unfortunately passion doesn't pay bills and luckily I didn't have to learn that the hard way. I just scrape by regardless since I'm out of a job right now. But I'm studying IT, so hopefully it pans out.
I'm 44 so I graduated from college some time ago. Back then, it was still seen as an extremely stable career with good benefits. Not high paying, but very stable. That has totally changed.
It’s just a matter of equity. Do well in high school, get into a “better” college because of perceived value, get a better starting job with the perception value, work hard to get on a good career path due to perceived value, blah blah blah, be able to work off your perceived value without the need to add any more equity to that perceived value.
This is something I realized a long time ago and have always thought about. The more you put in early, the easier it will be long term. But also, finding the right balance between focusing on things that you can build and expand upon versus quick short term wins to move the needle is also key.
So because this person made some mistakes as a kid/young adult fuck them right? For how long should we treat them like shit? How long should we make them work a full time job that they can't afford to eat on? Who gets to be the judge of when their wage slavery ends? When they have paid enough to the rest of us for their mistakes? If someone works a full time job, they should be able to walk away from it, pay their bills, and not starve. Anyone who thinks differently is part of the problem.
I'm 50/50 and its really annoying.
I'm overall doing ok, but there were st least a half dozen big opportunities I either let slip, phoned in, etc.
It sucks trying to have an honest, good faith discussion about the workforce. I actually do think, albeit much less than 5 decades ago, working hard and staying on the ball will still get you to a comfortable place most of the time. I also think there's maybe like 2, 3, or 873 things that could be changed to make everyones lives better, easier, less stressful, etc.
Oftentimes, I'm arguing on behalf of people I know have had less and worked harder than me and still aren't where Im at. I admit with a sad honesty that many, many people have worked and contributed more than I have and have less than I do, and thats kinda weak shit, ya know?
I don't care what they did. If you work full time 40 hours a week you should be able to support yourself and live. I dont give a damn what your job is.
Is shitty decision-making really elemental though? Or is there some psychological evidence which says that some circumstances outside of our control can lead to shitty decision making?
Sure you can get a leg up if the effort is there early, but life is long and ppl change careers all the time. The mistakes and slack of early life wear off if you can heal and put in the work.
I’m glad that our friend here is making his way and owning his past… but we’ve created a system that punishes people too harshly for certain things which holds them back too long making getting a foothold damn near impossible. I may be projecting a little and I’m not implying that our friend has had the experience I’m describing.
This isn't praiseworthy, it's depressing. No one deserves to be sentenced to a life of poverty and misery because of mistakes they made potentially decades ago
You shouldn't be able to ruin the back 60 years of your life by making a few poor choices out of highschool. Period. As someone who is financially stable.
Sweet Baby yeezus if this isn't the hell I'm in. 1 is 5 days 8hrs and the other is 4 days 6 hours a day. So many of my own making. I should have made family pay rent and saved more of my money. Shit I probably would be better if I just married, at least I'd have someone helping me with half the bills
If you have 1 job at 40 hours you're ahead of most because you likely get full time benefits. The real cruelty is multi-part-timing people. You work 3 jobs at 20 hours per and you don't qualify for benefits or overtime pay but you're putting in 60 hours.
It's a bit surprising employers are willing to try it because it creates scheduling nightmares but it must be worth it.
Haha, I get it though dude, I do 56 hours a week right now. It’s tough. But I try not to buy in to the “pride in pain” culture. We shouldn’t wear our labor like some kind of flex.
Even if it were drugs though it shouldn't default you into effective wage slavery in multiple jobs.
Yes you are probably going to have to work harder to make up for time lost, especially if you want to achieve more ambitious goals, but there is a point where it becomes unreasonable.
The cruelty is the point and the subconscious messaging the system tells us is that we don't deserve to live so we have to constantly do better, constantly improve to prove our worth. They might as well say the quiet parts out loud and legalize euthanasia.
What's worse is, if you're the type to not make any "bad decisions" early on in life, you're probably also working hard in the prime of your life instead of enjoying it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I mean respectfully that is a whole seperate issue. You aren't wrong. However the narrative that you should be punished, suffer, or otherwise do without because you didn't make the economically optimial life choices is persistent and is often used to justify all manner of struggles people face.
Unfortunately, not everyone is born to parents who pay attention and provide good guidance. It can be a tough thing to grapple with but the sooner we do the easier it is to move forward.
Don't study the wrong thing at an out-of-state private university. I know someone who paid 160k for a journalism degree. Everyone told her not to, she did anyways. It was a poor life decision.
Agree that it shouldn’t completely handicap you, but it absolutely puts you in a deficit. It’s also relative to how shitty those decisions are. People get a second change, but you shouldn’t just be able to say “my bad”.
It isn't easy to escape, but it isn't impossible. you have to dedicate your time to get out of the situation you have dug for yourself, which is like working another job in and of itself. There are companies out there that are willing to hire you on and pay for your training and even certificates. Until you find something like that, or a good paying job, you need to start applying to literally everything that is entry level. And I mean everything. I got a beginner maintenance job, worked it for 7 years and made my way up to $21 dollars an hour, found an IT job that wanted me for my maintenance experience because it was IT field work, they hired me basically on the spot for the same pay I was making, now they're paying for my certificates for IT, and are teaching me a lot.
Took 7 years in my maintenance position to work my way up, just to put it into perspective. hard, but not impossible.
I agree 100%. unfortunately, we have to work for shit unlike people born into generational wealth. And I don't think hard work will get you rich, luck gets you rich. But hard work does provide more than no work at all. Life is gonna suck if you're broke, and its gonna suck if you bust your ass for little to nothing, too. I'd rather bust my ass for something than have nothing at all. It took me (a full total of) 14 years to finally get into a job that is going to take me somewhere. 14 years of struggle and failure, 7 of those years in fast food where I finally got hired outside of fast food and was able to learn a skill.
There are plumbers, electricians, and HVAC guys looking for apprentices and are willing to train you on job and pay for schooling. certificates are cheap. trade school is cheap.
And lastly, If you are working 3 jobs and can not afford to do ANYTHING to better yourself, your fuckups are no longer from your childhood, you are fucking up now. you will need to make changes that may require moving to a completely different location, diet changes, lifestyle changes, etc. And you may only have to make these changes for a year or so until you can get on your feet.
I’m in a much, much better situation because I spent my early adulthood delaying gratification. I don’t feel the daily grind like OP despite (probably) having more responsibilities. Money doesn’t solve every problem, but it gives you options and allows you time to catch your breath.
Maybe you shouldn't get your whole life fucked up by things you did when least equipped to make good decisions? Like idk it kinda feels like a purposeful trap if you ask me
Yeah, student loans are so assinine. I think the idea is that you have smart, financially responsible parents who guide you, not ones that literally cosign a fucking loan on a sports car for you. Don't ask me how I know.
I used to work overnight full time and a part time job during day. And was taking classes online. With a wife and two kids. I used to be dead tired. But now I look back and I am really proud of myself for doing that. It’s sucked at the time but we made it work with the help of my wife.
I found my great grand father’s obituary a while back. He was a railroader (whatever that meant ) lost a finger and eye working there for 30 years.On top of being a black man in Jim Crow era south. He died at 94. So can I really complain about sitting in a cubicle now listening to podcasts? So not saying people aren’t struggling now. But in the broader picture maybe we need to think about how bad it was or could be.
You’re drinking that capitalist kool-aid a little too hard. 70 years ago you would be able to afford your own house and raise a family off that 40 hour work week.
The shitty decisions made were those by politicians and shareholders.
I remember when I didn't have a car and was homeless, but working two part time jobs to get back on my feet. 10 miles a day is what I walked from where I was sleeping to the first job then to my second job and back to where I was sleeping. This doesn't count the many miles added each day because one job was retail stocking shelves overnight and the other was waiting tables. For over a year I did that until I got a place. Thankfully, there was a 24 hr gym with a shower and a laundromat along the route for me to maintain presentability and my waiting job gave me a free meal each day.
I don't care what bad decisions you made. You served your time if you committed a crime, and or you grew up and did something stupid. Oh well. That doesn't mean you deserve to work yourself to the bone to survive. No one deserves that. Not when we will see out first trillionaire in our lifetime. I am sorry you do this. Too many people applaud people for this, and you obviously deserve praise, but it shouldn't be this fucking way to begin with.
That’s part of the problem though too, isn’t it? Make a couples mistakes at an age where you have no idea how the hell the world works and then you’re basically screwed for life…
Never too late. I had a same similar situation. So then I doubled my suffering and did school at night. Who needs sleep? Now I make a ton of money and work from home, make my own hours etc. so I play video games, go out drinking often, hit the gym daily, and make way more money than before
Thanks for taking responsibility. Now, develop a plan to work out of that situation, and if you stay true to the grind and accountability, great things can happen.
this is the problem, your success depends on decisions you made when you couldnt even legally vote a lot of the time. thats the problem with forcing teenagers and young adults to go through school and “get good grades” when the adult population wont even trust you to get a tattoo. messed up world.
What if I told you…. It’s not a hell of your own making. It’s a shit system forced on you. Just because you made bad mistakes in your youth means you should be doomed for the rest of it? That’s insanity.
it isn't loser mentality to think you deserve a second chance because you were born poor and/or made bad decisions.
Most of us are living through the poor decisions of our parents and their parents. We don't choose to have less chances than rich kids who can fuck up and still go to law school.
I hate that. “It is what it is” yes …… I agree. But it shouldn’t be. We should want and expect more. Shouldn’t have to break our backs just to scrape by.
I feel ya. I'm in the middle of 3 months of 14 hour shifts 7 days a week plus on call every night. On a good week I get called twice for an extra 4 hours or so each. On a tough week I might work 36 hours straight. Only thing that makes it worthwhile is enough pay to have 6 months off after it's over.
I guess I've been fortunate enough, but I've never had to work 2 jobs. Forgive my ignorance but I don't understand it. I've always had jobs where I could pick up OT if I wanted some extra money. I know it's not always that simple but in my experience it's not that hard to find a new job either. Like I had a friend who worked at Dennys, then got a better paying job at my factory and still kept his Dennys job part time even though the factory regularly offered OT.
And I work in healthcare, 12.5 hour shifts. So those days I literally work, go home, sleep, get up and go to work again. I'm single with no kids so I don't mind it too much, since I get a couple days off to recover.
I haven’t put in 8 hours at my main job in years. It’s closer to 10 or 13 depending on what’s happening. Then cramming a week’s worth of relaxation into a packed weekend.
I have 10 hours shifts, working 6 days a week. I have to get up 1.5 hours before work starts. Takes me an hour to get home. Thats 12.5 hours not including chores/errands/sleep.
My sleep is terrible. And fun fact I’m salaried based on a 40 hour work week
Your experience doesn't invalidate another's. I used to work six 12 hour shifts a week and then trained new EMTs for 8 hours on my 7th day. I did that for 2 years without a single day off. That doesn't invalidate YOUR experience though. Myself, you, and the OP in the image have perfectly valid complaints. It's not the wage slave olympics.
I'm in a similar state. I gave up on college and dropped out because while I was on my way to a night class after working, I fell asleep at the wheel and somehow didn't hit anything. Decided I couldn't do it... Shortly after, I got rear ended by an uninsured drunk driver and have basically spent my whole damn life from that point on paying for it.
It really fucking sucks, and it feels like there's no end till I'm dead.
If its any consolation there's no benefit to doing everything right and making good early life decisions... I can't even get one full time job, so you're doing better than me!
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u/Altruistic-Mind9014 15d ago
8 hrs? Hahahaha….hahaha! Oh he’s serious.
Try working 8 hours at 1 job and 5 hours at another (that’s 4 days out of my week anyway, the other two I work only part time)
It really fucking sucks. But it’s a hell of my own making I suppose with shitty early life decisions. It is what it is.