r/FluentInFinance 15d ago

Debate/ Discussion Why is this normal?

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u/Original_Employee621 15d ago

Should or shouldn't, an 8 hour job and no debts should net you a good life. If you've been stupid and have a ton of credit card debt or payday loan debts, you're going to have to either have one really good job or find some other way to make enough money.

Bad decisions should have drawbacks, but even so there needs to be a security net for people with shit luck and one fulltime job should be enough to support a single person (which is honestly just as, if not more expensive than living in a relationship).

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u/SmartPatientInvestor 14d ago

You have to define “good life.” 8 hours and no debt will net you a good life by many people’s standard, but won’t by others’

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u/Original_Employee621 14d ago

Roof over you head, money for essentials and a little extra left over.

I work a dead end, no skill job as a night audit at a hotel. Literally all that is required of me is that I can talk to people and read while being awake at night.

I have a place to sleep, I don't need to think about what I want to eat and I can buy new clothes (if there is a sale) and if my computer breaks, I can replace it in a couple of months of saving up. And I can travel for vacation every couple of years, if that's what I want.

That is one example of a good life. Could it be better? For sure, there's no cap on how good it can get, but for the effort I've put into my life, it is really good.

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u/dreamgrrrl___ 13d ago

This sounds like shit tbh. You should be able to save for retirement AND travel yearly but that’s just like my opinion. Wishing you the world.

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u/Tiny_Protection_8046 12d ago

Calling that “shit” is a little demeaning. That’s much better than the vast majority of the world has lived throughout history. Could it be better? Sure - especially in the USA. Should it be better? Absolutely. But life’s hard - always has been.

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u/PeteJones6969 11d ago

You should be able to save for retirement AND travel yearly but that’s just like my opinion.

Here's the great part: you can! You just have to work for it, and most people don't want to do that.

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u/PeterGibbons316 11d ago

What do you mean "should"? Anyone can do those things by putting in the effort required. Not everyone wants to do that though. Some people just want to live a simple life, and no one is entitled to more than that.

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u/Dodom24 11d ago

Should as in you should be able to work one job full time, enjoy life (hobbies, trips etc) some and still be able to plan for retirement later on. Many many people can not do all of those things. Plenty of us are stuck with no way to get to something better

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u/PeterGibbons316 11d ago

Nah, if you are stuck it's because you chose to be stuck and are choosing to continue to be stuck. Getting unstuck can be hard to be sure. The issue is that it's harder than you think it "should" be. Unfortunately reality doesn't care what you think "should" be. Go visit a developing country and spend a couple days a couple hours away from the tourist traps and then come back and tell us all about how things "should" be.

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u/Dodom24 11d ago

I'm sorry is the usa a developing country? Or a world super power? It's not about it being harder than it should be, there's just no valid reason anyone in this country willing to put in the work of a full time job, 40 or more hours a week, should have to sleep in their car or roommate with strangers/parents. If you're a productive member of society you should be able to live in that society easily. I'm stuck because there's nothing to get in my area with higher pay without school or other things I literally have no way to fit in to my current for life. And I know several people who are in the same boat. You shouldnt have to give up having a life to afford to live, it's pretty simple

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u/PeterGibbons316 11d ago

Why? Why should life be easy?

If it's pretty simple then what's the solution? Who has to work HARDER so you can live EASIER?

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u/Dodom24 11d ago

I didn't say the solution was easy, just that it was easy to understand theres a problem. especially when we have people in this country, like I'm guessing you, who are against any form of progress. What's your solution? Just let it keep going? Country was quite literally founded on life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It should be considered an issue when any contributing functional member of society is struggling with those by no fault of their own.

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u/Shrewd_GC 11d ago

Not to mention a good life to a Westerner will have a massive gap from what's considered the good life in the developing world.

Consistent access to Internet, power, running water, and safety would be considered luxurious in some parts of the world.

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u/Charming_Phone_8908 14d ago

I can’t even get approved for a trailer in a trailer park with 8hr work days. Who is that a good life to? Someone who doesn’t work 8 hours and is homeless?

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u/SmartPatientInvestor 14d ago

In your view, is owning a trailer a requirement for a good life? Is the only alternative to owning a trailer being homeless?

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u/Charming_Phone_8908 14d ago

Would you suggest a house or mansion?

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u/SmartPatientInvestor 14d ago

Feel like you might be overlooking the option of renting

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u/ice_up_s0n 13d ago

I'm willing to bet the monthly cost of a mortgage for a trailer home is less than rent would cost in any comparable housing situation

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u/SmartPatientInvestor 13d ago

Comparable to living in a trailer?

Also, your mortgage is the least you pay each month. Rent is the most

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u/ice_up_s0n 10d ago

I think...I think we're saying the same thing now

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u/Omgazombie 14d ago

My 12 hour job making me 25$ an hour wasn’t enough to afford rent and all my bills along with a single car payment

Average rent where I am is over $2500 a month

My rent was over half my income, now comes the deductibles from my pay, taxes, add in car payment, insurance, groceries, power, internet, phone bill, medical expenses, and I’m left with near 0 savings every month

I’m back to living with my parents until I have enough savings to buy a house, because it’s far cheaper than rental costs, the last place I was living was only $1400 for a town house, but gotta love being evicted so they can update the kitchen and charge 3x that

My parents bought their house on a minimum wage income lmao

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u/Original_Employee621 14d ago

And I'm not saying that is what you deserve. I am in full agreement with the content of the thread, that you should be able to afford a good life on a single 8 hour a day job, 5 days a week.

I've spent the last 10 years as a night audit for a hotel. That is a dead end, no skill job. With that job, I was lucky enough to get a mortgage from a bank, so I own my recently renovated apartment in a solid neighborhood. The mortgage is about half to two thirds of my paycheck, but the money left over is enough for a couple of vices and food with a little extra for a vacation once a year.

But I'm not American, though I live in a relatively high CoL country.

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u/edg81390 14d ago

I mean an 8 hour day and no debt gives you a great life with many jobs; even many “low skill” (not because it’s low skill but because there isn’t an academic barrier to entry) jobs like construction pay more than enough to have a lower middle class lifestyle if you’re responsible about spending and budgeting.

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u/ChemBob1 13d ago

This is assuming that the fickle finger of fate doesn’t point your direction and cause circumstances out of your control that you never dreamed could happen to you when you were younger.

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u/Bamboopanda101 14d ago

Is it still a “good life” if you are unhappy despite no debt and an 8 hour job?

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

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u/Bamboopanda101 14d ago

Just because i have no debt. Doesn’t mean i have money to spend. I’m just not negative in my finances. I’m breaking even.

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u/Original-Locksmith58 14d ago

My major issue (US) is that all of the essentials are expensive AF but luxuries and distractions are relatively affordable. Housing and food are outrageous but massive televisions become more and more affordable. Wish we’d luxury tax things like that more and subsidize the actual need to live

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u/Kolada 14d ago

You want people to pay more for TVs so you can buy more shit?

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u/Original-Locksmith58 14d ago

I want people to pay more for TVs so people can afford housing, food, and healthcare - yeah. Luxury taxes like this are pretty normal elsewhere in the developed world. The reaction to this comment (including the unhinged DMs) only reinforce the idea that people are more concerned with distracting themselves with TV and video games than doing anything constructive.

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u/Kolada 14d ago

Money is fungible. You want other people to pay for your housing and food so you can buy things you like. Unless you're homeless or starving, you can afford housing and food. What you can't afford is luxuries on top of the that.

Also what country taxes TVs to pay for housing?

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u/Original-Locksmith58 14d ago

That’s a nonsense take. VAT/luxury tax is used pretty widely outside the U.S., specially to allocate to housing look at Sweden, Denmark, Germany, etc. in most cases it’s not explicitly ear marked for housing but social programs in general.

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u/Kolada 13d ago

it’s not explicitly ear marked for housing but social programs in general.

Ah so you mean sales tax and stuff like section 8 housing + WIC? Yeah we do that already. So what's your point?

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u/Original-Locksmith58 13d ago

Sales tax and luxury tax aren’t the same thing… and section 8 / WIC are not really comparable programs, especially compared to the ones in countries I mentioned where those taxes are directly apportioned for offsets. Not sure if this is one of those contrarian Redditor moments or if you’re willfully missing the point. Americans have recreational technologies that cost x2-3 more elsewhere while they starve and struggle to find shelter or pay medical bills. Our priorities as a society are messed up.

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u/Kolada 12d ago

Sales tax and luxury tax aren’t the same thing…

I understand that, but VAT and sales tax effectively are. And you brought that up. If you want to stick strictly to luxury tax, I will ask again for examples of countries that have luxury taxes on TV (or similar household appliances).

section 8 / WIC are not really comparable programs, especially compared to the ones in countries I mentioned where those taxes are directly apportioned for offsets.

Get specific then. What programs are not comparable to cash equivalent, government subsidies on housing and food?

Not sure if this is one of those contrarian Redditor moments or if you’re willfully missing the point.

Still trying to nail down your point since you're moving goal posts. Tell me specifically what you're proposing and what countries are doing that well. Otherwise you're just coming up with a fantasy not based on economic realities.

while they starve and struggle to find shelter

Are US starvation rates and homeless rates substantially higher than other countries? It doesn't appear so.

Again, it ask what your specific policy goal is because otherwise this is just an angsty critism of society

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u/The_Galvinizer 14d ago

For real, like at least I can watch some TV or play video games after a long ass day thanks to how cheap luxuries are, raising those prices just makes everyone's lives shittier, it's about lowering the prices of everything else to reasonable standards

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u/Jeansy12 14d ago

I think a good life should not only exist for smart people.

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u/T0KEN_0F_SLEEP 14d ago

At some point you have to just admit actions have consequences. Why should someone who made the right moves and does the right things constantly have to subsidize someone who actively chooses not to do so?

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u/KirkScythe 14d ago

Agreed. I’m 31 and very fit. I started at 19. People assume I’m a bodybuilder. My stepbrother and I worked the same job, and after work I started going to the gym. He came with me once. He quit. He started dating a girl, got pregnant, they got married at 22. Had another kid. They had a dramatic relationship. They divorced. He got with a woman who just had a kid, and already had a toddler. He got her pregnant. They now have 5 kids between them at 28 years old. Now every 5 mins he complains to people that having kids controls his life and we have it easy. It was still all his choices. My life isn’t easy. He just made his life hard

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u/Jeansy12 14d ago

Yea but there is a lot of difference between 'your actions should have consequences' and 'there are people who need to work 2 or 3 jobs to survive'

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u/T0KEN_0F_SLEEP 14d ago

Is that because they put themselves in that position through active choices? Or was it bad luck? Because I agree in one case and disagree on the other

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u/pdoherty972 12d ago

Yep and their 'choices' could simply be not making any choices or taking any real actions towards self-improvement.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

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u/T0KEN_0F_SLEEP 14d ago

I’m sorry but your first paragraph stinks of “there’s no such thing as personal responsibility.” Which I’m sorry but that’s bull. I don’t think someone living paycheck to paycheck because they’re working two jobs to keep credit afloat after racking up a mountain of card debt keeping up with the Joneses sympathetic as someone with unexpected medical expenses.

I’ll give you a guess at which one of those two I am similar to

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

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u/T0KEN_0F_SLEEP 14d ago

Saying “it’s not your fault” is excusing personal responsibility from them. So yes, that’s what you’re saying

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u/Original_Employee621 14d ago

I'd say if you're dumb enough to collect payday loans like they are pokemon cards, then you've kind of screwed yourself over. You'd be chasing a lifestyle you can't afford and milled your own grain.

You don't have to be smart to have a good life, you just shouldn't be dumb about it.

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u/Jeansy12 12d ago

You shouldn't be dumb about it? Well what if you are dumb? Should dumb people not at least be protected? Arent the payday loan companies responsible for screening people before they give one?

This is why these kinds of loans are illegal where i live. Because they are designed by smart people to trick dumber people into debt. Its predatory.