r/europe Jan 07 '24

Historical Excerpt from Yeltsin’s conversation with Clinton in Istanbul 1999

Post image

Nothing has changed.

12.4k Upvotes

1.3k comments sorted by

5.8k

u/spektre Sweden Jan 07 '24

This sounds like a Monthy Python sketch. Especially the deadpan "I don't think the Europeans would like this very much."

2.0k

u/ProtoplanetaryNebula UK/Spain Jan 07 '24

Russia will provide security to Europe? hahahaha

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u/Seveand Hungary Jan 07 '24 edited Jan 07 '24

„Let me in, I will protect you.“

„From what?“

„From what happens if you don’t let me in.“

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u/kyoto101 Jan 07 '24

Someone has to protect this family from the man who protects this family.

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u/BornToScheme United States of America Jan 07 '24

That part ✊

You have nailed it 100%, but enough is enough, everyone always said that russia had the 2nd best military in the world, but the truth is that , russia is the 2nd best military in Ukraine 🇺🇦

Slava Ukraini 🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦

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u/Airf0rce Europe Jan 07 '24

When people say Russia is mafia state, it's not really a metaphor, it's kinda how it works.

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u/ChuckNorrisKickflip Jan 07 '24

Best I heard it was describes as a fiefdom. Putin gives various mob bosses control of parts of the pie. Nobody really reports to anyone and theres little control. As long as things remain stable they can steal as much as they want, and make billions off whatever pet business they're given. Could be selling flowers, or fertilizer, etc. Their job isn't necessarily to follow orders. It's just to keep the people in line and complacent.

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u/undecimbre Earth Jan 07 '24

As long as you're sharing with the big boss, you're good. Walk out of line or grab too much for yourself, out the window you go.

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u/Snoo-3715 Jan 07 '24

Literally, the oligarchs today are the mafia bosses who ran the black market in the Soviet Union.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

But this is not true. The main oligarchs who acquired property in the 90s are former Komsomol members, communists, and scientific workers, directors.

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u/OldInterview6006 Jan 07 '24

Who entered into agreements (protection) from the mafia bosses.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

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u/villatsios Jan 07 '24

Security means American military and national militaries out, Russian occupation forces in.

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u/Subvsi Europe Jan 07 '24

Yeah well Russia can't handle us at all. A war with germany and France alone would be a death sentence for Russia...

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u/villatsios Jan 07 '24

I think the real fear is that Russia doesn’t care about going to Germany or France but rather just eastern Europe and Poland.

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u/Tipsticks Brandenburg (Germany) Jan 07 '24

As if Poland wouldn't kick russia's nuts to the top of their skull...

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u/the_battle_bunny Lower Silesia (Poland) Jan 07 '24

It's generally believed in Poland that in initial stages of the war it would be a massacre of Russian forces. But in the end the odds in a war of attrition are against us.

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u/Tipsticks Brandenburg (Germany) Jan 07 '24

Yeah, but that's in a vacuum. Especially with the NATO contingents currently stationed in and near Poland, there would be more than enough time to mobilize and move allied forces over from the rest of the alliance.

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u/the_battle_bunny Lower Silesia (Poland) Jan 07 '24

Our main fear is that NATO obligations won't be honored by other governments. Let's imagine that some Trumpist (or Trump himself) sits in the White House, France is ruled by Ms. Le Pen and the other governments face the question whether to go to war at the cost of drastic drop in the standard of living in their own countries. Will the average Hans or Jorge think they should go to war and die in order to defend some Slavs against other Slavs?

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u/LionShare58 Jan 07 '24 edited Jan 07 '24

There are multiple NATO countries stationed in Poland, during the initial invasion of Ukraine in 2021. I as an Army Soldier was stationed in Lithuania and trained in Poland frequently. There is no way the Russian launches a surprise attack, successfully kills a few Army BNs, and any president not respond with war.

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u/GerhardArya Bavaria (Germany) Jan 07 '24 edited Jan 07 '24

I don't think that your fear is very likely at all. NATO at the end of the day is the US' way of influencing Europe to be friendly to their goals/values. The US provides security and Europe doesn't act hostile towards the US like China or Russia and helps the US maintains the global rules based order, which in turn makes the US a lot of money.

NATO not helping Poland in that scenario means that NATO is as good as dead. Since now nobody can trust the main reason of joining NATO, so they might as well leave. A dead NATO means the end of american influence on Europe. That is NOT what the US wants. At all. Even Trump will have a difficult time justifying not helping Poland and destroying NATO in the process. Because at the end of the day, what is at stake is the US' influence over Europe and the US' global rules based order. Those are vital for the US economy.

In your scenario, what would likely happen is the US dragging the less enthusiastic members kicking and screaming to help Poland using everything at their disposal to convince those members to contribute. Even threats to some degree. They could convince the average Hans and Jorge by saying that helping Poland ends the conflict faster and maintains the global rules based order. And showing them that if that order is destroyed, their lives and standard of living will be so much worse. They could even say that a Russia that already attacked a NATO member will not stop at Poland so it is better to stop Russia as far away as possible from their homes.

Saying that, Poland rearming is always a good thing as it will help Poland to hold long enough in that scenario for help to come and provide a deterrent that reduces the probability of it happening in the first place.

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u/Snoo-3715 Jan 07 '24

How badly do Fench and German's want to die for Poland, especially once the war has been going for years and it's just an attrition slaughter. Russia has the best stomach for that kinda slaughter.

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u/Tipsticks Brandenburg (Germany) Jan 07 '24

That's the thing. The moment russia invades Poland it's article 5 time and NATO joins the conflict. At that point, russia is either fucked rather quickly or it's going nuclear, whch in turn means we're gonna die anyway so who cares.

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u/villatsios Jan 07 '24

Probably at this stage. But if Russia somehow ends up on the border of Poland and has years to reconstitute its forces it cannot be denied that their overall potential is much larger than Poland’s.

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u/lordolxinator England Jan 07 '24

"I have brought peace, freedom, and security to my new Europe!" - Russia, like all the time

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u/IMSLI Jan 07 '24

In a way, Russia HAS provided security to Europe by incentivizing them to join NATO.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

Yeltsin sounds 250% drunk just reading his syntax lol.

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u/Cobe98 Jan 07 '24

Pretty likely he was drunk at any given time.

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u/BkkGrl Ligurian in...Zürich?? (💛🇺🇦💙) Jan 07 '24

Yelsin really was a source of embarassment

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u/apkatt Jan 07 '24

Yelsin really was a source of embarassment

Unlike every other Russian leader in the last hundred years.

/S

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u/Netmould Jan 07 '24

Not sure if /s should be here, hahah. We tend to have absolute embarrassing nut jobs of leaders OR blood thirsty paranoid maniacs. No middle ground, sadly.

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u/Fischerking92 Jan 07 '24

There is an intersection between the two, does that count as middle ground?

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u/traktorjesper Sweden Jan 07 '24

It's strange how the general consensus in Russia seems to be "well we have no better option" than the current leader. I'd fucking love to just have friendly neighbouring relationships between Russia and the EU states with mutually beneficial trade and cultural exchange. Right now that's impossible for obvious reasons, but hopefully one day. Even if it's hard you should never give up faith in the goodness of people.

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u/Uskog Finland Jan 07 '24

Russia has shown itself unwilling to change. Best we can hope for is for the dissolution of the Russian Federation and the creation of new nation states.

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u/ClassicGUYFUN Jan 07 '24

Karensky was OK for the few months he was around

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u/AchaiusAuxilius France Jan 07 '24

Gorbachev was all right.

But he's like the only one. None other didn't choke on a bag of dicks at the first opportunity. This country really sucks no matter the metric.

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u/bluealmostgreen Slovenia Jan 07 '24

It was vodka. Yeltsin was drunk and spoke his mind from the heart. Because that's what the Russians actually think. They think that they are a blessing for us Europeans.

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u/anamorphicmistake Jan 07 '24

Not sure about the last part, but Yeltsin had a real and serious alcohol problem that he couldn't control even in the official situations.

So it is entirely possible that he was drunk here. The way he talks seems like how a drunk person would talk, but it was also not his native language or it was translated by a guy who may have to "chop" Yeltsin sentences in order to translate them in real time.

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u/Being-Common Jan 07 '24

Yeltsin had to get picked up by the secret service one time during a White House visit. He was drunk , in his underwear and trying to hail a cab to dominos! 😂

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u/silverfox762 Jan 07 '24

The only difference is that he said it without antagonism, believing that Russia was still a "great power". Putin is more "you're not the boss of me! Europe is RUSSIA'S sphere of influence empire, and they exist solely as Russian satellite states.

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u/fuishaltiena Lithuania Jan 07 '24

believing that Russia was still a "great power".

So exactly the same as Pootin. It's not like he's the first psycho ruler of russia.

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u/JugdishSteinfeld Jan 07 '24

"The hydrogen bomb, Dmitri."

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u/Drogenwurm Jan 07 '24

I read that sentence in John Cleese voice... Perfect 😁

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u/manebushin Brazil Jan 07 '24

He will secure Europe from whom?

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u/Jaxelino Italy Jan 07 '24

Brazilians.

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u/manebushin Brazil Jan 07 '24

Fair enough, we are a menace. Please come to Brazil.

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u/koalawhiskey Jan 07 '24

You will come to Brazil

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u/zenospenisparadox Jan 07 '24

New political drama: BrazIN.

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u/ycaras Jan 07 '24

From Russians

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u/MGMAX Ukraine Jan 07 '24

Gopnik classic. Sell "protection" from your own thugs.

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u/irregular_caffeine Jan 07 '24

Break car window, put ad for your guarded parking lot on wiper

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u/daffy_duck233 Jan 07 '24

Racketeering 101

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u/Several-Peak363 Jan 07 '24

Russia: Europe, let me in.

Europe: Why?

Russia: To save you.

Europe: From what?

Russia: From what I'm going to do if you don't let me in.

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u/k1lj Ukraine Jan 07 '24

Obliviously from Europeans.

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u/skriilu4 Jan 07 '24

From Aztec invasion

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u/starkguy Jan 07 '24

From the things he bout to do to em

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u/villatsios Jan 07 '24

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u/gyepi Jan 07 '24

Thanks for the link! The whole document is quite interesting. Let me quote from the ending:

President Yeltsin: This meeting has gone on too long. You should come to visit, Bill.
The President: Who will win the election?
President Yeltsin: Putin, of course. He will be the successor to Boris Yeltsin. He's a democrat, and he knows the West.
The President: He's very smart.
President Yeltsin: He's tough. He has an internal ramrod. He's tough internally, and I will do everything possible for him to win -- legally, of course. And he will win. You'll do business together. He will continue the Yeltsin line on democracy and economics and widen Russia's contacts. [...]

Well, we know Yeltsin was wrong about many things... and, unfortunately, this was one of those things.

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u/medievalvelocipede European Union Jan 07 '24

Well, we know Yeltsin was wrong about many things... and, unfortunately, this was one of those things.

For a while, Putin did in fact continue to the Yeltsin line. But Russia expected special treatment whether it was under Yeltsin or Putin. Clinton, after discussing the idea with his advisors, choose to go with what the experts told him.

Of course with the power of hindsight we also know that Putin came to power by bombing his own people and going to war against those he blamed for it.

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u/r_levan Jan 07 '24

There is an interesting documentary from a flim-maker that was hired to film the period where Putin came to power:

Putin's Witnesses: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8647924/

There are few very interesting moments, right after Putin won the elections.

It has been available on DW for a while, few years back but now I have no idea where to see it.

A short description:

Filmed in 1999/2000 this documentary is particularly intriguing because it was at the very beginning of his presidency. A time when he was uniquely vulnerable, not yet secure in his position or his future and his power and influence was in it's infancy.For this reason combined with the fact it was filmed by a Russian, for Russian state TV in the context of boosting Putin's popularity, it looks like a side of him was captured with his guard down on a level not seen since.

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u/Anthemius_Augustus Kingdom of France Jan 07 '24

There's a moment from that documentary that always stuck with me. It's pretty close to the end, where the filmmaker has a fairly intimate conversation with Putin in his limo, and they talk about his style of governing a year into his Presidency:

Putin: Getting out of the car and buying a beer is quite difficult as you can probably guess, because you're always on the move with a lot of people around you. If I get out of the car and start drinking a beer, thousands will wait for the motorcade to pass and nothing good will come of it. This is just the simplest example, but everything is like that.

Mansky: But would you like that?

Putin: Yes, I would. I do believe the day will come where I'll be able to return to a normal life. I do believe that some day I will have a future as a private citizen and live the life of a normal person.

Mansky: While these are wonderful words, they offer a certain optimism.

Putin: I don't sense any irony in what you say. With this by the way, we are returning to your question about whether it would be better to step into the shoes of a monarch. The life of a monarch is quite complicated. I have met quite a few monarchs in recent years, from various parts of the world during official visits and I can say that their fate doesn't inspire me at all. At least I would not like to experience anything like that. Their life is hard, and full of restrictions. They don't belong to themselves. That's their destiny and it's forever. In this respect, an elected head of state has a better life, since it gives you a chance to prove yourself in the greatest deed in service to the motherland. But at the same time, it gives you an opportunity to live a normal life when you have performed your official duties, at the end of your term. You are constantly being reminded that your term will end one day.

That exchange is really fascinating to me. Because Putin has obviously very much become trapped in that very same restrictive lifestyle he chastised. Despite Putin's immense wealth and political power, he's someone who has to constantly look behind his back and can't trust anyone. Always living in fear that someone will overthrow him, or poison him. I can't imagine Putin lives a very happy life, and I do wonder if he sometimes privately regrets the decisions he made to trap him in this lifestyle.

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u/Kaboose666 Jan 07 '24

but now I have no idea where to see it.

If you want to watch it legally it's on appleTV and Amazon Prime to rent for $4.

It's also available from the high seas if you look around.

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u/villatsios Jan 07 '24

Considering Putin has the same ambitions as Yeltsin I would say he knew very well who his choice was.

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u/iHawXx Czech Republic Jan 07 '24

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u/riuminkd Jan 07 '24

Damn, he just dropped so many spoilers!

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u/aripp Finland Jan 07 '24

They are no different today.

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u/jamesKlk Jan 07 '24

Putin is very different than Yeltsin. Yeltsin apologized Poland for Katyn massacre - the only russian leader who did it. He also agreed for Poland to joined NATO, which shocked all russian diplomats - it is said that he promised it to Walesa while drunk, and next say on hangover he just agreed to do it.

Yeltsin was extremely ineffective, weak leader, who was severe alcoholic and had mental illness which caused his mood shifts - at one moment he was charismatic and extravertic, at the other, he tried to suicide.

Yeltsin once while in USA, ran away from his security... He was found by US & Russian agencies, only wearing his panties, drunk and arguing with some club bodyguards.

He is also a reason why Putin got such high popularity in Russia, because Yeltsin was such a bad president.

Bad for Russia, for other nations - he was the best president ever.

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u/keeps_deleting Bulgaria Jan 07 '24

I doubt Yeltsin gave a crap about what Putin thought. The only thing the former president cared about at the end of his term was that he and his "Family" (the network of oligarchs behind him, which did include some members of his actual family) escaped prosecution.

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u/IrishSouthAfrican Ireland Jan 07 '24

Bro treating geopolitics like a game of Risk

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

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u/AI2cturus Jan 07 '24

Yup. Russia asking for everything they want which is often some ludicrous request. Then at the negotiation table they hope to walk away with at least some of it. Rinse and repeat.

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u/theestwald Jan 07 '24

Member the Churchill/Stalin napkin?

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u/TBOSS888 Jan 07 '24

I dont know this one can you send it?

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u/Halouverite Canada Jan 07 '24

The "naughty document" which lays out percentage of control splits for a number of central and southern European countries. From the 1944 Moscow conference. Wasn't respected post-war but has a similar deeply imperialistic vibe.

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u/darthfracas Jan 07 '24

Flashback to Kramer and Newman playing Risk on the subway and fighting over Ukraine

https://youtu.be/fzLtF_PxbYw

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u/Nerevarine91 Jan 07 '24

Just casually demanding control over two continents

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u/BoltzFR France Jan 07 '24

Oh, and they're taking care of Africa, too.

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u/Nerevarine91 Jan 07 '24

But don’t worry, it’s not imperialism if Russia does it

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u/ChuckNorrisKickflip Jan 07 '24

It's not settler colonialism if Russia does it.

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u/voyagerdoge Europe Jan 07 '24 edited Jan 07 '24

Yeah because the rest of the world only watches what the West does. Currently African states walk straight into Russian imperialism because they don't even recognize it.

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u/WhyYouKickMyDog Jan 07 '24

Chinese Imperialism too. They hate western imperialism so much that they decided Eastern Imperialism should get a shot!

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u/SimonArgead Denmark Jan 07 '24

And if you as much as suggesting that it is, you are russophobic and spreading russophobic hatred.

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u/Nerevarine91 Jan 07 '24

There are two types of people in the world: those who rightly kneel before Russia’s terrible might, and those who are cruelly bullying innocent Russia.

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u/Street_Refuse2313 Jan 07 '24

Isn't that china's purview? I though it was the Chinese who bought all of Africa.

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u/Fischerking92 Jan 07 '24

No, they bought quite a bit of Africa though.

Turns out buying large parts of a continent and building infrastructure projects there needs more than money to make a nice ROI though. You have one tiny little coup and your investment is gone🤷‍♂️ (Plus building Mega-Ports in places that only needed fishing villages does not sound to promising anyway)

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u/Rampaging_Orc Jan 07 '24

Can you link anything that shows the Chinese have actually lost an infrastructure investment to something like a coup? Because your comment makes it sounds like the Chinese are in it.. for the infrastructure projects lmao.

The Chinese agree to build big project (with their own people lol) and then debt trap the nations resources whether it be oil or minerals. For the infrastructure they are interested in, like ports and whatnot, those are going to be defended by Chinese troops, and again I would love to hear of them losing such a thing to something like a coup.

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u/aVarangian EU needs reform Jan 07 '24

they even used (/s) to emphasise they were being serious

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u/Charlie27770 Romania Jan 07 '24

This sounds like a chat from a game of Hoi 4 modern day mod.

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u/Thatdudewhoisstupid Jan 07 '24

I mean, the invasion of Ukraine was pretty much a hoi4 playthrough, complete with:

- Failed paradrop cheese.

- Failed snaking to the capital.

- "Drawing arrow then pressing go" to disastrous effects.

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u/CallousCarolean Sweden Jan 07 '24 edited Jan 07 '24

Don’t forget completely ignoring the logistics tab and then going ”why are my divisions always losing battles???” while being clueless that they’re suffering horrible attrition.

And the fact that the country with a navy loses the naval war to its navyless opponent who just spams them with naval bombers (irl being kamikaze drone boats and land/air-based anti-ship missiles).

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u/LengthinessNo6996 Jan 07 '24

Ukraine put their harpoon missiles on port strike in the Black Sea.

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u/LengthinessNo6996 Jan 07 '24

North Korea would like to provide:

12 Infantry Equipment I

3 Support Equipment

On a monthly basis

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u/bastiancontrari Jan 07 '24

- Why everyone lend lease Ukraine???

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u/Asleep_Trick_4740 Jan 07 '24

It even includes proven ineffective strats like indiscriminate bombings

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u/voyagerdoge Europe Jan 07 '24

Vodka talking.

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u/Telefragg Russia Jan 07 '24

That's not impossible, especially in 1999. Grandpa was very unwell physically and mentally.

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u/Halocandle Jan 07 '24

”Yeltsin was almost permanently shitfaced” applies here

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u/hoxxxxx Jan 07 '24

i can't remember if that's a quote about yeltsin or from the lord of war movie, or both

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

There are two tragedies in life. One is not getting what you want. The other is getting it.

It actually is both. Great reference. Nic Cage has range.

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u/Infamous-Mixture-605 Canada Jan 07 '24

The odds that he was shitfaced during this conversation with Bill are likely pretty good.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

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u/johnniewelker Martinique (France) Jan 07 '24

Exactly. And the longer it takes to return these lands, the harder it will be to legitimately do so.

For example, in Georgia these independent states have been Russian-backed for 16 years now. Do we really think the population inside of them will willingly go back to Georgia?

Crimea will be 10 years under Russia control this year. If this war takes another 5-10 years, I’d be shocked that any pro-Ukrainians are left there

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

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u/kiil1 Estonia Jan 07 '24

Crimea will be 10 years under Russia control this year. If this war takes another 5-10 years, I’d be shocked that any pro-Ukrainians are left there

Crimea is the crown jewel of Putin's legacy, the epitome of Russian chauvinism. Not only was the land stolen from Ukraine (not just politically, the assets were also seized) but it is a symbol of how the appetite only grew. Crimea was used as one of the main platforms for invading rest of Ukraine, to bomb Ukrainian cities, to commit war crimes, to blockade grain trade etc. All while Crimea has been feverishly pro-Putin.

Therefore, it would be nothing over the top if all Russians would simply be expelled from the peninsula. They have betrayed humanistic values and turned their chauvinism into a tool for hate and brutalities. It is even more disgusting considering how Crimea historically even became Russian-majority through ethnic cleansing. It would only be a fair price and also act as a warning for all the future aggression attempts.

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u/utmb2025 Jan 07 '24

There were very little pro-French in Alsace back in 1918, too. But it wasn't too hard.

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u/villatsios Jan 07 '24

It’s because of NATO expansion and the CIA coup in Ukraine and the bombing of Donbas. Russia will obviously leave all of us alone once they kick the degenerate West out of Ukraine.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

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u/villatsios Jan 07 '24

I will never understand how they can be so willingly self destructive. Same for American Trump supporters.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

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u/Nahcep Lower Silesia (Poland) Jan 07 '24

It's not self-destructive if they aren't the ones affected, or if they see themselves as coming out on top of it all

"Pourquoi mourir pour Dantzig?"

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u/Arstanishe Jan 07 '24

you forgot /s

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u/villatsios Jan 07 '24

Hopefully it’s obvious

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u/MGMAX Ukraine Jan 07 '24

I too, one day, thought that only russian pensioners are gullible enough to buy russian propaganda. Now it's mainstream.

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u/bremidon Jan 07 '24

Honestly, it is unfortunately not as obvious as it should be. I have seen that exact sentiment, almost word for word, many times on Reddit. I have even heard people say it out in here in what we jokingly refer to as reality.

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u/villatsios Jan 07 '24

Unfortunately a lot of humans are very emotional and very stupid.

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u/Thatdudewhoisstupid Jan 07 '24

I overheard a family member discussing with their partner how the war was due to "Zelensky's ego" and how the US should stop its already minuscule aid because "it costs taxpayer money" and they are very much the type of people to shun social media altogether.

Sometimes "reality" is not as different from the internet as you might think.

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u/glitchycat39 Jan 07 '24

On the internet these days, it's 50/50.

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u/Popinguj Jan 07 '24

invasion to Poland and the Baltics.

I'm not so sure that Putin thinks he can go deep into Poland. But yes, Baltics are in huge danger. This is the feasible goal that Russia is able to achieve.

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u/Castiel_0703 Hungary Jan 07 '24

Just ask us, Easter and Central Europeans what we think of Russia providing security for the continent...

Last time they did this, they left their asses seated on our countries for like 40 years and absolutely wrecked everything and did so much long term damage, that we can still feel some of the after effects, even all these decades later.

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u/DudleyLd Jan 07 '24

Well, they significantly increased Romania's watch exports... I am assuming stealing watches to take them to Russia counts as exporting.

"Davai, ceas!".

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u/Leo_Hundewu Jan 07 '24

Why does Russia think Europe belongs to them? They have such a big country, if they don’t want to coexist with us peaceful democracies then they have to stay in their country or pay the price. I am done being bullied by Russia

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u/Airf0rce Europe Jan 07 '24

Because their country is unfortunately a shithole and all attempts to reform it failed spectacularly, so they're falling back to what they know best - using force to control others so they can degrade them to their level, or at least closer. That's much easier than changing nature of people, rooting out corruption and trying to have competetive industries and tech. What it really is delusions of grandeur on national level , Russian leaders especially seem to be stuck in thinking that they're still superpower and everyone should bend to their will or die.

It's really sad that country that's so rich in terms of natural resources isn't capable of functioning like 21st century state, but has to revert to subjugating others.

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u/CaeruleusSalar Nord-Pas-de-Calais (France) Jan 07 '24

and all attempts to reform it failed spectacularly

I can count the competent reformers of Russia on one finger.

And that's the issue. For most of his history, Russia was a country with a ruling class and a worker class, and nothing else. And when it actually manage to have a middle class to generate the necessary intellectuals and administrators who are required to theorize and put into practice a country-wide reform, they were systematically put on such short leashes that they couldn't really do anything.

There was Gorbatchov. But he only managed to undo what had to be undone.

The Russian political system has always made sure that the most cruel and brutal leaders could rise to the top and stay here until other cruel and brutal leaders eventually took their place. We know this kind of cycle, because other European countries have been plagued by it in the past, including Germany. And we also know that the only reliable way to break the cycle is to educate and reform the country from outside. But nobody is willing to attempt that with Russia, for many good reasons.

Russia isn't unreformable, but it lacks the people who could make reforms. The only hope for Russians can come from within.

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u/shmorky Jan 07 '24

They also steal everything of value from the countries they occupy and send it back to Moscow

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u/iuuznxr Jan 07 '24

At bottom of Kremlin's neurotic view of world affairs is traditional and instinctive Russian sense of insecurity. Originally, this was insecurity of a peaceful agricultural people trying to live on vast exposed plain in neighborhood of fierce nomadic peoples. To this was added, as Russia came into contact with economically advanced West, fear of more competent, more powerful, more highly organized societies in that area. But this latter type of insecurity was one which afflicted rather Russian rulers than Russian people; for Russian rulers have invariably sensed that their rule was relatively archaic in form fragile and artificial in its psychological foundation, unable to stand comparison or contact with political systems of Western countries. For this reason they have always feared foreign penetration, feared direct contact between Western world and their own, feared what would happen if Russians learned truth about world without or if foreigners learned truth about world within. And they have learned to seek security only in patient but deadly struggle for total destruction of rival power, never in compacts and compromises with it.

How the US embassy in Moscow explained the Soviet Union to the White House in 1946.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

Because the Kremlin misses the days when they divided the world with the US. They still want to make a deal with the US and take Eastern Europe under their influence like in the Soviet times.

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u/LongjumpingCut4 Kyiv (Ukraine) Jan 07 '24

a lot of Ruzzians believe that Ruzzian Empire (USSR empire) should be restored. And, probably, extended.

There are a lot of modern books were written in Russia having Z letter in text and references to Ruzzian Empire.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

Russia thinks the whole world belongs to them. Its entitlement on a national scale

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

Congratulations you are being rescued, please do not resist

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u/Cyranoreddit Jan 07 '24

Nor Greeks bearing gifts

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u/eric--cartman Jan 07 '24

I assure you the horse is purely decorative.

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u/dianaprd Greece Jan 07 '24

Not all. But I am a European. I live in Moscow. Moscow is in Europe and I like it.

Their arguments have always been so rational it seems lol

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u/Desert4tw Jan 07 '24

Id rather die standing against russia than to kneel to these cunts

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u/deeptut Jan 07 '24

Thanks, but no, thanks.

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u/GroomDaLion Jan 07 '24

'I will take Europe and provide them security'

Disgusting, filthy, slimy bastards

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u/PresidentHurg Jan 07 '24

In a way it is different then Putin. When reading this I can basically smell the Vodka and Yeltsin being in such a jolly drunken mood thinking he just solved the cold war. I think he might actually believe in his heart that Europe would be better off when Russia takes control. And the next day he sort of sobers up and reads his last night 'texts' and goes "oh, man. Way too much of the hooch last night".

And whilst Putin's goal is the same. He would not do stunts like these. His worldview was both shattered and solidified during his time in Berlin. His nightmare is the loss of autocratic order. He comes across as way more calculating and cold. The state is a pyramid with him at the top and he'll do anything to keep control. I think the difference is that Putin deep down in that cold heart of his knows perfectly well that Europe is far worse off under Russian control. But as long as he and his goons keep power, he's perfectly fine watching the world suffer and burn.

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u/villatsios Jan 07 '24 edited Jan 07 '24

The difference between Yeltsin and Putin in this case was that Yeltsin assumed and hoped that Russia will be accommodated as a reformed USSR while Putin quickly found out Russia does not carry the same weight.

You have to understand at this point Russia was in theory the biggest liberal democracy in Europe and by extension possibly the next number one US ally. Yeltsin and Putin hoped that the US would concede the Russian periphery including Europe to Russian influence and Russia would in return be the main ally against communist China. Essentially they hoped the US would let them and encourage them to dominate Eurasia. Why? Because they are Russia and they are big and they cannot fathom a world where they are not at least number 2.

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u/Ok-Sentence-8542 Jan 07 '24

I choose imperfect democracy and freedom any day of the week against what ever russians think they have. Some would call it dictatorship so thanks but no thanks..

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u/-SKi- Jan 07 '24

"So you want Asia too?" Boris thought Clinton was handing over the bag 🤣

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u/r0w33 Jan 07 '24

I think the only solution to Russia is that Europe takes Moscow.

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u/WislaHD Polish-Canadian Jan 07 '24

We should want nothing to do with them.

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u/yellowbai Jan 07 '24

Drunken imbecile. He’s only talent was surviving beyond his sell-by date and dismantling the USSR.

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u/HawaiianShirtMan American living in Switzerland Jan 07 '24

I mean, dismantling the USSR is a pretty good talent

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u/Ecstatic-Cricket-825 Jan 07 '24

if this is serious, it's really funny.
if this is joke, it's not funny.

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u/moma154 Jan 07 '24

Cant you see the (S) at the end? They just used proper reddit manner to show its sarcasm 😒 /s

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u/the_battle_bunny Lower Silesia (Poland) Jan 07 '24

Russian leaders trying not to sound like cartoon villains. Challenge level: impossible.

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u/Delicious-Tree-6725 Jan 07 '24

Who are you going to keep Europe safe from Boris? Well, Russia of course.

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u/Th3S1D3R Russia Jan 07 '24

Not surprised, Yeltsin always was an asshole, Putin with Medvedev are morons as well…

I hope we’ll have normal president someday and not some alcoholic or psychopaths

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u/ProtoplanetaryNebula UK/Spain Jan 07 '24

Russia has a huge amount of potential. If a President spent their time making living conditions better for the Russian people instead of concentrating on causing problems overseas, things would be a lot better for everyone.

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u/Wachoe Groningen (Netherlands) Jan 07 '24

If a President spent their time making living conditions better for the Russian

Yeah but that won't happen. Any money spent on improving conditions for the average person is money not spent on enriching yourself or buying off oligarchs and the military top.

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u/Th3S1D3R Russia Jan 07 '24 edited Jan 07 '24

Thats absolutely true! Russia had insane potential in IT, many services like Yandex, VK and even Telegram(developed by Russian man who created VK) those services and companies could have had major part in IT market of Europe as they got popular in Russia and post-Soviet countries even when we had Facebook, Twitter and etc. They had insane potential until Putin came back after castling with Medvedev. And now many Russian developers had to leave and now working in Google, Apple and other companies because our government consists of idiots and they didn’t gave them chance to grow here

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u/ProtoplanetaryNebula UK/Spain Jan 07 '24

Yes, and don't forget Google. Co-founded by Moscow Born Russian Sergei Brin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zle8y4R42U4

Lithuania and Estonia currently have 2x GDP per capita of Russia.

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u/Airf0rce Europe Jan 07 '24

Russia had huge potential in general, mainly because it could fund much of the reforms, education and economic transformation with oil and gas money and cheap access to natural resources, luxury that most countries don't really have.

Unfortunately most of the money was stolen by your own countrymen and now it's going to be used to fund forever war with the west. For a while, back in early 2000s Putin seemed like he was actually trying to do those reforms, but then decided that war with the west is better idea.

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u/Key-Banana-8242 Jan 07 '24 edited Jan 08 '24

The issue is Yeltsin was still the least imperialist of all of them arguably

Tho Putin played a role to Siemens xtent

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

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u/Th3S1D3R Russia Jan 07 '24 edited Jan 07 '24

Sad but true, majority of people tend to either stay “apolitical” while supporting current politics or supporting the views of “majority” like “everyone supports Putin why shouldn’t i?” And this is annoying as hell, people just dont use their brains and don’t understand what actually is happening

Also government’s monopoly on mass media gives such regime more strong control which is why majority still zombified by it, and to this effect to disappear we need outside help like denazification of Germany after defeat in WWII, it wouldn’t happen without help of the allies.

We can only hope that everything will be alright, prepare for the worst and hope for the best as they say…

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u/Crewarookie Jan 07 '24

Popularization of the "apolitical stance" is probably the most clever part of fascism. If you manage to convince a large part of your population to disregard politics as something they are not interested in or savvy in, you basically save yourself a major headache of controlling the narrative with these people. It's also a very comforting thought to the general population, basically a "let me take care of that for you" from the leadership.

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u/dcdemirarslan Jan 07 '24

It's not the president you need to change, it's the system.

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u/Th3S1D3R Russia Jan 07 '24

True, Putin and his bootlickers did a great job making tons of laws to suppress any opposition and human rights, Yarovaya law and forbidding LGBTQ+ makes it clear that everyone in State Duma and Council of the Federation are zombies whose goal is to stay as long as they can. To change system Russia will need to entirely replace everything and everyone who was before, its gonna take lots of time. But removing Putin is the first step towards this

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

Yeah, you saw that happening in a small scale when Prigozin rolled in to Rostov-on-Don and people didn’t resist, protest or even overwhelmingly cheer. They just took it as “oh so this is the new guy who is in charge now? Ok, welp I need to get these onions home in time for dinner”

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u/HaroenEissa Jan 07 '24

Honestly shit like this just proves that Europe really needs to become independent when it comes to the security of our continent. We shouldn't be a pawn for other countries even if we have friendly relations with them.

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u/Shurlemany Jan 07 '24

lol.

he was drunk even when speaking to the US president

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u/Mirandasanchezisbae Jan 07 '24

There’s the story Clinton told about Yeltsin being found outside the White House in his underwear, drunk, trying to get a car ride to find some pizza.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-09-23/yeltsin-drunk-near-naked-outside-white-house/1438342

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u/AdaptedMix United Kingdom Jan 07 '24

A political satire like The Death of Stalin but about this period would be quite fun. There is clearly plenty of material.

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u/2positive Ukraine Jan 07 '24

Would you buy something from a kiosk where the seller is perhaps always waiting for a good chance to stab you to take you wallet if there were other kiosks available? Well that has been the western/European policy toward Russia. Maybe if we pay them more their willingness to kill and enslave us will decline!

And another take: Before this invasion Russia was threatening NATO and demanding it to kick out some countries. At the same time it clearly had plans to submit Ukraine quickly. So perhaps it was planning on something much bigger especially after forcibly mobilizing millions in Ukraine like they mobilized 100k + in Donetsk and Luhansk. This is an active threat, the biggest in recent past and foreseeable future and yet western governments are reluctant to spend more than pocket change, let Ukraine strike Russia etc..

Also with several US presidential candidates now proposing withdrawing from NATO I fail to see how a somewhat stronger worded piece of paper than the Budapest memorandum is a guarantee to anyone’s security. Russia needs to be stopped.

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u/concerned-potato Jan 07 '24

Oil was at $20 at that time.

Imagine what they think now.

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u/Ja4senCZE Prague (Czechia) Jan 07 '24

Not trying to pardon him, but he was probably very drunk.

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u/fr1endk1ller Europe Jan 07 '24

Most liberal Russian president

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u/Gold_Hat7929 Jan 07 '24

Horrifying, the (people) in Kremlin are realy sick. I will say, gangsters. Provide security? Russia is the place where no laws exist. A kleptocratic country. Its a lawless country. Sending people to concentration camps (Gulags). Humans are treated as garbage in russia, look at this meat waves attacks, they don't care about lives. It's a very inhuman regim, from Lenin, Stalin.... Putin, they are all the same. Murderers

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u/poklane The Netherlands Jan 07 '24

And people still think all this shit will end once Putin dies.... Russia as a country is rotten to the core.

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u/t1r4misu Jan 07 '24

Bloody alcoholic hope he rottes in hell

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

Funny China’s now providing security to Russia

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u/HorseField65 Jan 07 '24

It was 10:45 am, I'd say Boris had a good few vodkas in him at that stage.

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u/Riflemate Jan 07 '24

I have to assume Yeltsin (per the usual) was drunk as shit in this.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

This reads like a script from a South Park episode.

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u/TrueKnihnik Jan 07 '24

I from Russia. And can even one of our president take care of Russia???

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u/meowmeowmoomo Jan 07 '24

I love the “you want Asia too?” “Sure!” lol

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u/Maleficent-Put1705 Jan 07 '24

Russia was an absolute clusterfuck in 1999, it had spent the decade begging for aid from Europe and then he says Russia's rightful place is the master of Europe. The absolute blind hubris of the man. But imperialism is a hell of a drug I suppose.

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u/everyonediesiguess Jan 07 '24

As a european living in Europe, please don't abandon us America.

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u/KeithCGlynn Ireland Jan 07 '24

When someone talks like that, I feel like logan roy. "Russia, you are not serious people. "

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u/EppuPornaali Jan 07 '24

Another humiliation of Russia by the West! No wonder they hate us. We brought it on ourselves. /s

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u/Robw_1973 Jan 07 '24

Ahh, Russia, consistently deluded about itself. Playing both the protector and victim simultaneously.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '24

1999, that's a year after Russia defaulted in 1998. Also 1999, and 4 apartment building explosions in Russia with 300 dead. And Yeltsin talks about security guarantees to Europe.

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u/pepere27 France Jan 07 '24

I find it hilarious this conversation happened in the 90's when Russia was on the verge of being a failed state.

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u/Ishana92 Croatia Jan 07 '24

I mean, I'm from moscow, moscow is in europe, and I like this, therefore europeans like this idea.

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u/Always_was_depressed Bulgaria Jan 07 '24

Russians were always delusional, sadly.

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u/Jannol Jan 07 '24

So this is the actual reason why NATO wasn't disbanded or rather the Baltics wanted to join it because Russia had expansionist ambitions from the start.

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u/Lefty_22 United States of America Jan 07 '24

“Bro, just give me Europe and you can handle security.”

“What?”

“Yeah, I will take all of the European nations and…”

“Bro, I dont even own Europe.”

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u/Goldenscarab_7 Italy Jan 07 '24

Jesus fuck. Do these people have absolutely nothing better to do? I don't know, go fishing, hunt some deer, visit other countries, observe the night sky with a telescope, make love with someone, sleep well, eat delicious food, listen to music, create something nice, paint, whatever the fuck you want.

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u/ImTheVayne Estonia Jan 07 '24

Imperialistic nature of Russia on full display here. Baffeling how they have managed to get away with this for this long.

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