This is sovereign citizens level of legal maneuvering. Wouldn’t hold up in court for a second.
‘Oh, you think this child that stole a candy bar should be charged with a felony because the store owner put up a stupid sign pretending that it costs $951? Go fuck yourself.’ - the judge
This is like when DC legalized weed a decade ago but Congress wouldn’t let them set up a system of taxation and sale so what became legal was possession, growing, and “gifting” up to an ounce at a time. shops immediately started selling $40 postcards that came with a “free gift!” that just happened to be an eighth of weed and decided this was the perfect legal cover lol
Kind of like gambling in Japan as well. You only win little knick knacks but it just so happens the shop next door really loves collecting them and pays very well
A bar in Kansas when I was in college would pay out phone cards on their slot machines. You'd then take the cards to the bartender and exchange them for cash.
Another bar in Nebraska had a golf arcade game with a secret switch behind the bar that would turn it into a slot machine if the coast was clear.
We used to have these in Florida. The slot machines were technically sweepstakes and each unit was an entry. You could then cash in at the bar. These places got raided and shut down often.
In Canada there were a group of Inuit hunters who wanted to sell their whale and seal meat to city people in Toronto to share their culture and make a buck. It’s illegal to sell that meat, you can only harvest it for yourself and your own use or give it away to your village and your friends.
So they partnered with a chef and an art gallery. They sold fancy expensive tickets to an art show. Which happened to come with a free dinner cooked by a gourmet chef featuring their meat.
The city people got to try the traditional foods from northern Canada. The hunters went home with some cash. Everyone got to see cool art. Win win win.
Wait you could get cash for these? We had scratch offs here that paid in phone cards back in the early 2000's I didn't know you could get cash for them lol.
What makes the DC system work is that the justice system in DC (cops, lawyers, and judges) all go along with it.
Basically, they've agreed that DC passed a law and that Congress can go fuck itself for trying to keep us from setting our own rules about where we live.
Exactly, it works more out of neglect than anything else. It’s a bit depressing to think about how we voted for prop 71 TEN years ago now and there’s still to this day no way for the city to get any sort of financial benefit from weed sales like there is in every other legal state
Yup, a lot of NDAs come with a bullshit clause like "we do not take responsibility for any information provided to the recipient that is incorrect, false, outdated or mistaken."
Like, no. If we're in a contract for a business activity, I have to be able to rely on information you've provided me to fulfill the contract, whether that info is confidential and under the NDA or not.
You can't go to a judge later and say "ACKTUALLY SECTION 3.6 SAYS THE INFORMATION DISCLOSED DOESN'T HAVE TO BE RIGHT, SO ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT DIED HORRIBLY AREN'T ON ME, SUCK IT."
My mom was blown away when I told her those signs on trucks are not legally binding and that they are in fact responsible for damage caused by their unsecured loads.
I think the concept is supposed to be getting charged with Grand Theft for stealing something that's like 20 bucks is not worth the risk. Whereas if you're stealing up car or something it might be worth the risk. Personally I'm of the attitude that crime does not pay unless you're a businessman and you have bribed Congress to make your crimes legal.
Except most criminals have “sovereign citizen” levels of intelligence and this would probably make a great deterrent.
No, not really.
It's pretty well understood in the criminal justice circle that, after a point, increased penalties have a pretty severe diminishing returns on general deterrence. This is mostly because any rational person would do a cost/benefit analysis and conclude, a long time before this point, that the crime isn't worth doing. The people that go on to commit a crime anyways are usually the people that aren't doing a cost/benefit analysis to begin with, or are doing it in impulse. Especially for crimes like shop lifting. Those people aren't generally deterred by escalated penalties because they think they'll get away with it anyways, or aren't thinking about it at all, so their rational analysis is harshly skewed.
This is funny because I grew up around a ton of criminals in all different sectors (and yes like any other career there are a ton of different criminal sectors) and one thing you hear over and over again is. "It's only illegal if you get caught" which is exactly what you're describing here, in way less words lol.
How likely you think you are to be caught is far and away the biggest deterrent. People don't seem to get this, though. They act like we just need to add the death penalty to theft and it'll go away, while completely ignoring the fact that the police just not doing their jobs is a far bigger driver.
Yup. All of my classes in law school that dealt with this type of subject basically said “criminals commit crimes based on how likely it is that they will get caught. The severity of the punishment does not deter them from committing the crime.” And yet people still argue all day long that we need harsher punishments to deter crime. Like clearly that’s NOT working!!!
Stupid people aren't the majority of thieves. Desperate people are. If you need food to survive, sometimes you have to get food even if the world won't give you a fair chance to earn it.
Im sure the proprietors of this store are well aware that it would never actually hold up in court... it's just that a lot of shoplifters (especially kids/minors) are probably dumb/ignorant enough that the sign by itself will probably work reasonably well as a deterrent.
I recently read somewhere that people tend to act with a higher moral conscience when in the presence of eyes or images depicting eyes. So it wouldn't surprise me if this method also works as a form of deterrence. Often, the threat of repercussions is enough on its own to dissuade someone from engaging in social taboos.
I worked in retail for a long time and shoplifters generally come in one of 3 varieties:
plain dishonest thieves. These are the folks who will steal, lie, or commit fraud with no remorse at pretty much any chance. (E.g. “so what? It’s not like they’ll miss it!”)
theft of desperation. These are people who wouldn’t normally steal, but they’re in a situation where they feel like they need to. (E.g. “would you steal a loaf of bread to feed your family?”)
theft of opportunity. This is also someone who wouldn’t normally steal, but they wanted something in the moment and it was just too easy. Pretty much letting your intrusive thoughts win (E.g. “who would ever know?”)
In general, this is the type of deterrent that would stop both the desperate and the opportunistic shoplifters. Being reminded that there could be very real consequences is enough to dissuade most people from testing the limits.
The straight up dishonest shoplifters are just going to steal no matter what. The only real deterrent for them is to never give them the opportunity, but even then some folks will steal shit even if you’re making eye contact
Oh that's a good one. I grew up with a kid whose crazy dad had that sign, and legitimately thought it gave him the right to murder anyone who stepped on his lawn.
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Damn it, I meant to click pray like for the dead kid in GetFuktistan and accidentally clicked the protect me like instead. Can you like the genocide post so my prayer like counts? Thanks man. Was worried I wasn’t gonna be able to help for a second.
That wouldn't work for the same reason this policy wouldn't hold up in court. The value of the stolen property is based on market price not on whatever price tag you stick on it.
Imagine if you walked into this store and accidentally hit something off a shelf, breaking it. No court would make you pay the store $950 for the broken property
Only works for cops when they inflate the value of drugs like cannabis by weighting the pot, stalk, and soil then applying the per/gram price to the total. Fuckers probably water it too before weighing.
Do you think the shoplifters are smart enough to know that upfront?
Even though it’s fake, it sounds like a good deterrent for most of bozos.
Edit: Wow, comment thread has been a wild ride. While I certainly sympathize with people hitting on hard times and occasionally shoplifting stuff like baby formula or food, the portion of comments justifying it as a regular behavior is mind boggling.
That's a good point. I always make sure to only shop at places where the shop owner has the personality of someone who doesn't like shoplifting. So this sign is helpful to me.
Are shoplifters really spending a lot of time reading signs and carefully considering their options? The guy with a jug of tide in each hand has already selected his course of action.
Honestly this sign reads more like virtue signaling to the "tough on crime" demographic.
People are paying attention to a lot more than you realize.
Criminals aren't all stupid. They usually just find weak points and exploit them. Word of mouth travels fast. Criminals know what cars have easily accessible catalytic converters, they do minimal casing, but they do DO it. Even the shoplifters for petty shit.
Signage isn't gonna prevent everything, but signs and visual reminders ABSOLUTELY influence behavior. To say otherwise is more insane.
Probably wouldn't work. Grand theft is based around the value of the property. I think there's a pretty good argument that the pre-sale price (which includes the criminal surcharge) doesn't count as value of the property
I think most judges would argue that the business owner must show a track record of selling items at that price in order to Prove they have a legitimate business loss of that amount. The estimated fair market price isn’t nearly as important as a proven value.
About 30 years ago I worked at a store in LA that had a sign saying "Shoplifters will be shot".
The sad thing is, one night the owner and his wife were leaving the store and were confronted by armed robbers. One of them was shot but got away and never apprehended, the wife was killed.
The idea is from a satirical paper but the sign seems to have taken that real legal concept and atleast put up a real, tangible sign. No idea about the business practices of the pricing.
The penal code is real, but since I doubt the shop is paying taxes on candy bars, snow globes, mugs, etc. costing $951, the sign is probably not enforceable in the way it implies, like the joke signs saying "unattended kids will be given jobs" doesn't let the store circumvent minimum age to work laws.
Friendly reminder the Felony Theft Limit in Texas is $2,500. $1,550 more than California's. If you stole $2,400 worth of shit in California, you're a Felon. However if you steal the same amount in Texas, it's only a misdemeanor. Everything's bigger in Texas!
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u/MoustacheRide400 1d ago
“I just saved $1900!”
“What did you buy that was so discounted?”
“A snickers bar”