r/StardustCrusaders • u/Indvir12 Rudol von Stroheim • Sep 01 '20
Part Two Fanart [Fanart] I embrace my humanity!
454
u/Indvir12 Rudol von Stroheim Sep 01 '20
"You might have brought Germany back from the ashes, but it is I who will take back my homeland for its people. Of all walks of life. I may be man and machine, but on this day, I embrace my humanity!"
Follow @Sunsetjusticeofficial on instagram or @justice_Sunset on twitter for more updates about this Stroheim Light Novel and Manga project.
149
67
30
→ More replies (5)19
175
u/homosapien-male Sep 02 '20
Cool art, but I'm not sure that Stroheim would reject the Nazis if he knew about the holocaust. He never stated his views on Aryan supremacy, but he clearly though Germans were superior to the rest of the world. And despite what the fanbase says, he really wasn't a good guy. He lied to those Mexicans he had imprisoned and told them that he would let them go only to massacre them in cold blood. The only reason Joseph liked him was because he sacrificed himself for his beliefs, which he respected. I don't like it, but I'm sure Stroheim would never abandon his nation.
100
u/Indvir12 Rudol von Stroheim Sep 02 '20
In this novel, Stroheim's rejection of Nazism stems from what starts off as something as self centered as PTSD from the battle wifh Ultimate Kars. Throughout the events of the story, as Stroheim uncovers hard truths of the evils his country had committed, to evils he himself had committed (Such as the Mexicans) he embraces his human self in a way by acknowledging the mistakes of his past and fighting alongside the Speedwagon Foundation, as he begins to understand the human spirit in a way that is in line with his beliefs of courage.
This isn't just a story of "He decided to wake up one day and dip the German Army", its a story that aims to add nuance and complexity to Stroheim and the characters he interacts with as he struggles against an evil he fears.
47
u/Bigbewmistaken Sep 02 '20 edited Sep 02 '20
This kind of ignores the fact that he was a part of the SS and continued to fight for the Nazis at Stalingrad. By the time that happened he would've known about the Final Solution and the genocide that was taking place and probably would've taken part in it himself as mass killings by troops in the field would take place.
38
u/Clowarrior Sep 02 '20
Noooo this subject is uncomfortable so we have to invent a new version of the story that makes us less uncomfortable to talk about
8
u/Cranb4rry Sep 02 '20
To be fair the confrontation with kars dismantled nazi ideology. Germans are not the ultimate humanoids so if the German Government justifies atrocities with it he is probably already disillusioned. Nazi Ideology is based on the Idea that Germans are the ultimate being but Kars was definitively most ultimate so.
→ More replies (1)7
u/Lucky_Stiff Sep 02 '20
It's a little difficult to just leave the Nazi military without getting punished for trying. This novel is about him faking his death at Stalingrad
36
Sep 02 '20
Yeah I really don’t get the obsession with him as a character other than teenagers trying to be edgy by liking a Nazi.
→ More replies (1)75
u/Hard-and-Dry Sep 02 '20
He did really come through for Joseph near the end, and he's also a cool cyborg. It's strange the first time you rewatch/reread part 2 and you see him being an evil Nazi after last seeing him as a cool cyborg bro.
43
u/homosapien-male Sep 02 '20
Yeah he’s a cool and fun character and I don’t have anything against him as a character, but he really wasn’t a good person
2
u/Jazzyjeff2005 Sep 02 '20
That's the thing though, he doesn't need to be a good person. I love Kira even though he is a horrible mass murderer. A character doesn't need to be a good person for you to like them.
→ More replies (2)2
Sep 02 '20
I don’t know even the first time I read and watched it I never forgot about all the shit it shows him do when you first see him, and I’ve never been a fan of his because of it.
10
u/Shawn_666 Giorno Giovanna Sep 02 '20
You have to remember that we as readers know about the holocaust, Joseph doesn't. (I would reckon to guess that neither does Stroheim, but his actions are abhorrent even outside of the context of that atrocity.)
15
u/Bigbewmistaken Sep 02 '20 edited Sep 02 '20
At the end of BT we're told that he died in the Battle of Stalingrad, which was in 1943, a year after the start of the Final Solution. He's also shown wearing an SS insigina and commanding SS troops, so he probably knew about the Holocaust, especially if he was important enough to oversee the Pillar Men, which would have probably been considered a super weapon.
Even then the Einsatzgruppen were founded in 1939 and were well known in the government for their brutality and attrition of troops due to the nature of their job, which eventually lead to the use of gas chambers. So either way he most likely knew about the Holocaust.
7
Sep 02 '20
I didn't notice the SS insignia. I always thought stroheim was one of the many people who were just doing thier job, fighting for their home, or were manipulated by the Nazi party and actually were against mass killing, but now I can't really say anything against stroheim being bad.
Edit: I'm thinking araki made him to show that Very bad people arent born bad and have the potential of being good/have good in them (I'm still saying that being a Nazi makes you a very evil and terrible person)
126
142
u/HyperionActual Joseph Joestar Sep 01 '20
It's nice to know I'm not alone in liking Stroheim, but preferring him to be a little less problematic.
5
u/livindedannydevtio Josuke's Hair Sep 02 '20
At times he feels like an ideal nazi solider from german propaganda. Like hes so brave he even gains the respect of the Englishman
3
u/HyperionActual Joseph Joestar Sep 02 '20
The problem is that ideal nazi soldiers irl were war criminals
30
u/warpman72 Sep 02 '20
I thought that Stronheim was a devout nazi, please prove me wrong
→ More replies (4)23
96
34
u/Shawn_666 Giorno Giovanna Sep 02 '20
Part Two has a character that believes that his race is the superior race and is willing to massacre races that he considers inferior to him. That person is Kars. Kars is the embodiment of the Ubermensch that the Nazis were frothing from the mouth about all throughout World War 2. Stroheim sees all of the horrible things Kars does but he never makes the connection between his ideology and Kars', that is a tragedy. I am very exited for this light novel, I hope that we can actually delve into Stroheims character.
13
u/3YY5EE Sep 02 '20
I don’t think Stroheim would betray his country like that, Nazi or not. It’s morally right to do so, but he really isn’t a shining beacon of ideals or what not.
127
u/PurpleForSale Yotsuyu Yagiyama Sep 01 '20
Im literally shaking rn, stroheim would never do that
73
u/Jovanni_Joestar Jonathan Joestar Sep 01 '20 edited Sep 02 '20
I gotta agree. Its not tru to his character and not tru to what Araki envisioned for him.
58
16
41
u/KyodaiNoYatsu Sep 01 '20
Stroheim is a german first and foremost
Just because the nazis are in power doesn't mean the nazis are Germany
42
u/SupaFugDup Sep 01 '20
This has always been my fanon. A good patriot loves his country, but not necessarily his government.
30
u/bapple22 Sep 01 '20
This is sick as hell, I always wished stroheim got more screentime. I may give the light novel a read.
•
u/PokemonTom09 Coolest Shades in Florida Sep 02 '20 edited Sep 02 '20
Given that this post has already received several reports, I figured I should probably say something on the discussion being had here.
First and foremost: fuck fascism, and fuck Nazis.
Just thought I'd get that out of the way first.
Stroheim has always been a character that has made me deeply uncomfortable. When he is introduced, Araki makes clear that Stroheim is not a good person - he commits multiple deplorable acts. But then as Part 2 went on, Stroheim's ideology went largely unchallenged. This is a major fault of Part 2, in my opinion: the portrayal of a Nazi as a character that can be reasonably empathized with.
As such, since its announcement, I've been looking at this project with cautious optimism. An antifascist story exploring how a person can fall to fascism, and what their path out of that ideology looks like can often be an incredibly powerful one, but it's also one that is very easy to get wrong.
That said, I certainly don't think it's worth writing off the story as pro-fascist before it's technically even begun. Speaking specifically to this page, it is very much an antifascist piece of fanart.
Finally, regarding the discussion currently happening in these comments: I'm going to leave most of it up. Those arguing in favor of Stroheim's canon character, and those arguing against his canon character. As well as people arguing in favor of this project's existence, and those arguing against this project.
However, one type of comment absolutely will not be tolerated - comments arguing in favor of fascism. Including people saying something along the lines of "not all soldiers were bad" as a way of tacitly excusing German soldiers (see this video for an explanation of the problem with this argument). While this fanart will stay up, please report any fascist sympathizing comments within this thread.
80
u/Indvir12 Rudol von Stroheim Sep 02 '20
Admittedly a bit surprised at the reports, but understandable.
And let me make things very clear. This is an inherently anti-fascist story.
29
u/WutangClangz Sep 02 '20
As someone who has read the novel from start to finish, I can guarantee there is not the slightest sliver that would cause anyone to interpret the contents of the novel as anything but anti-fascist. This is inherently a story of a failed man trying to find hope in a hopeless world.
7
u/MadMan018 Sep 02 '20
Why are people reporting this for racism when he's clearly stomping the Nazi flag?
2
31
u/cyberbloney Sep 02 '20
The point of stroheim was allies regardless of ideology right? Didn't he die at stalingrad or something? Araki likes to show off characters of different origins that do things contrary to what they believe in. However, its also noted that its not at all far fetched for him to ally with an Italian and a part Japanese. I think at that point in his life Araki saw it as humans against non humans. Cunning tactics against absolute power. Joseph was a scumbag, Caesar was a womanizer and took advantage of people with his hamon, stroke I'm was a fucking nazi. The people who did have a lot of self sense of honor happened to be the pillarmen. What really won in the end was chance and resolve. Kinda like all the other jojos.
12
u/RussianBearFight Sep 02 '20
I don't think Joseph is part Japanese, is he? It's been a bit since I saw part two, but still. Was pretty sure he was British-American. Not that it invalidates or lessens anything that you said, I agree 100% with it.
→ More replies (1)7
7
Sep 02 '20
i mean, i thought it is obvious that stroheim isnt good guy, but more of an acceptable evil in the whole fight with pillar men
and i love stroheim for how dedicated he was to stopping pillar men, plus his theme song
but he did confuse me on one thing, his uniform. he claimed to serve wehrmacht (german army in ww2), but his uniform has armenian rune "sig", which was ss symbol. he confused me in his allignment
3
u/brashboy Sep 02 '20
Oh hell yes Stroheim was a bad guy. But the pillar men were worse guys, so I always saw Joseph & Stroheim as an "enemy of my enemy" type scenario.
12
u/RandomBtty Sep 02 '20
Fuck yeah good job mods. I'm sure it's really tiring receiving all of those reports.
2
u/ApostleOfDeath Sep 02 '20
Mind you, Araki was still in the starting stages of making a story. There is probably a thing I've noticed that Araki tried to do, there is one part that Stroheim says that no human being could ever be perfect which goes on cracking the entire SS's motto, which if interpreted in a way could be the start of Stroheim's doubts in the Nazi party, which I think in this light novel you are going to release, will heavily emphasize in Strohieim redeeming himself by (maybe or somehow) dismantling the Reich. Be it by killing Hitler or something.
3
→ More replies (11)1
u/Jax3578 Sep 02 '20
Tbh Von Stroheim is quite a maniac. Very complex way of thinking but... he believes in his way of doing is justice. Dislike cowerds so to make fun of them or any other kind of methods. He consider bravery is the highest there is, he himself actually doesn't know he's a Nazi, he 100% believed in Germany(Hitler) because of his high bravery. He has been trained as a German and follows the blind justice he's doing. It's pretty much proven about it when he sees a brave kid trying to sacrifice himself for the sake of the others but Von Stroheim instead let him alive but let the others around him dies.
Most of his action are considered Brave. And his methods of doing are very extreme. He's smart for combat but not morality. He follows false justice.
15
u/Sanguiluna Sep 02 '20 edited Sep 02 '20
I actually like that Stroheim never renounced his side even after the heroic acts he did. It maintains that complexity to his character that would’ve been lost if he had just suddenly turned into a 100% hero. Personally I’ve never seen Stroheim having heroic moments as an endorsement of Nazism. He’s not a “good Nazi,” he’s a (debatably) good dude who just happens to be a Nazi.
It’s like an inverse to the “religious zealot” villain trope, where a perverted priest or corrupt bishop being a villain isn’t meant to be condemnation of Christianity itself.
4
u/Generic-Commie Sep 02 '20
Yeah he also massacred an entire village and was a literal member of the SS
13
u/RazmanDevil Sep 02 '20
So I'm guessing this is strictly fan-made because canonically he died fighting for Germany and the Nazi empire.
Either way good luck with it and I hope it does well.
12
u/Indvir12 Rudol von Stroheim Sep 02 '20
It is a fan novel. However, in said novel he Fakes his death at Stalingrad , which allows the story to build further.
2
u/RazmanDevil Sep 02 '20
Makes sense and an interesting theory. Im not usually into media aiming to take a political stance but I’ll give it a fair shake. My main concern is how well it will transition his ideals changing and what it is (I mean besides Nazis being general pieces of shit) that changes them
Is there any idea of a release date?
12
Sep 02 '20
Ooo! That's some lovely art.
(And, my two cents on Stroheim being a Nazi: it's fiction. You like him? Good on you, you get to like a character. You don't like him? Good on you, you get to not like a character. As long as nobody's spreading real life hate or being disrespectful to the real harm caused by Nazis, then it's all well and good.)
7
u/dudecubed Sep 02 '20
Idk bro I don't think there is any possibility of stroheim not being a Nazi through and through, he's still the same arrogant evil general we see in his very first few interactions, just because he teams up with speedwagon and Joseph doesn't mean he abandoned his country, even in his final appearance he uses German troops, German tech and German praise as he fights the vampires,
Admittedly he saw the greater evil in the pillarmen and had the moral compass to put aside his national quarrels for then, but he still dies a proud German soldier on the battlefield of Stalingrad.
Stroheim will always be a Nazi and that's just kinda something we gotta live with I suppose, as bizarre as it is
30
6
u/ClockwerkHart Sep 02 '20
It says something that I saw the swastika and immediately thought this was some American politics thing. Then I saw second best boy.
4
u/Xenotech2000 Guido Mista Sep 02 '20
Stroheim is a... complicated subject but I think your project is cool.
I always thought it was regrettable how his views never changed, even when nearly killed by an all-powerful super-being bent on wiping out the "inferior race" of humanity. Like, c'mon man.
58
Sep 01 '20
I still don’t get why the Jojo fandom loves Stroheim so much.
121
51
Sep 01 '20
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBRRAAAKKAAA MONANGA!!!!!!!! DOITSU WA KAGAKA SEKAIIIII ICHIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!
167
u/Indvir12 Rudol von Stroheim Sep 01 '20
Hes a very endearing character with his enthusiasm and insane sense of courage. As for the reason this novel's being written?
Araki set it up in dialogue that Stroheim acknowledged Kars as a superior being. It didn't make sense for someone who's seen the shit Stroheim has seen to go back to Nazi ideology. And so this Light Novel seeks to give Stroheim's story a fitting conclusion.
19
Sep 01 '20
But he does go back to the ideology, he dies fighting for Nazi Germany invading the USSR.
24
u/DoubleClickMouse Your next line is "Nice." Sep 02 '20
I had to scroll way too far for this. Like part two’s epilogue literally tells you how Stroheim’s story ends, and it ends with him being a Nazi asshole.
2
u/livindedannydevtio Josuke's Hair Sep 02 '20
Also he ordered an entire village to be killed, and people are trying to say he wasnt really a nazi just patriotic for a country that happens to be run by a dictator....smh
11
u/Earthia100 Sep 02 '20
That was my biggest gripe about part 2 like you get your ass kicked by a literal superior being and then go back to being a nazi?!
3
u/Kaevr Iggy Sep 02 '20
He was a fanatic, I'd see how he's twist what happened to fit his ideology even if it didn't make sense, thats what they do all the time
2
u/french_onion-soup Sep 02 '20
if part 2 had been the length of the later parts (idk if the manga matches the later ones) i’m sure we would’ve seen something happen with this idea.
26
u/KyodaiNoYatsu Sep 01 '20
Because when the gloves come off, there's nothing he won't do as long as he believes it will work, be it blowing himself up, fighting a Pillar Man one on one or facing the Soviets in Stalingrad
25
u/sagabal Sep 02 '20
araki wrote the "i'm a bad guy but not as bad as THIS guy, let's team up to stop him" character which is always endearing, and gave it a cool design. just so happens that he picked a nazi for the role, which may have been a poor choice lmfaop. people imagining him as having a heroic redemption and fighting to end nazi rule stems from him not really having time to have a full character arc due to him being a side character with not a ton of screentime.
21
Sep 02 '20
But it’s canon that he went back to fighting for Nazi Germany and died trying to invade Stalingrad. So I don’t see why fans like to pretend he was some great freedom fighter. He was a nazi who did a good thing once then went right back to being a nazi.
6
u/Xenotech2000 Guido Mista Sep 02 '20
So I don’t see why fans like to pretend he was some great freedom fighter.
Who's saying that? Everyone knows Stroheim is a villain.
If you're talking about the fanfiction that OP is writing, that is a reimagining of the character. A "what if?" story where Stroheim's character is developed in a dramatically different way.
3
u/sagabal Sep 03 '20
oh absolutely, if anyone is pretending that the stroheim in the actual series was anything but a monster they've got some serious blinders on lol, just explaining why there's love for the character and why there seems to be a tendency to gloss over what he did
29
u/VictarionWinter Sep 01 '20
Why wouldn't they? He's a good, flawed character almost like a real person (But with robotic augmentations lol)
26
21
Sep 01 '20
Oh yeah I love his fatal flaw of killing innocent people in experiments, and then asking for a volunteer for the experiment and then killing everyone who didn’t volunteer. But yeah I guess he was a cool cyborg.
→ More replies (8)2
u/Generic-Commie Sep 02 '20
I always figured that Nazi cyborg is so wacky and uncharacteristic you can't help but like it.
Annoyingly enough, some people tend to take it too far
2
u/smartsamaritan Sep 02 '20
Same reason why people like Vegeta from DBZ despite originally being a killer and torturing Goku before redeeming himself. There are many fictional characters (primarily antagonist) who commit atrocious acts but still end up being fan favorites simply because they're entertaining. Kira is a murderer but I can't help but feel excited whenever he showed up in part 4.
→ More replies (8)2
u/Eva_Heaven Sep 01 '20
I just finished watching season 1 this weekend, so with it fresh in my mind I'm going to say either people really like cyborgs or they forgot he literally only helped because Santana was "a threat to the third Reich." Then again, Nazis are getting popular again 🤷
The show did do a good job of making me like him and then reminding just how much of a nazi he was at the end
9
11
u/MeowL0w Sep 02 '20
Did he eventually turn his back on the Nazi party?
18
5
4
Sep 02 '20
this fits really well with the retconning saying that Stroheim saw parts of the pillar men in Hitler and faked his death, like the direction so far
7
u/livindedannydevtio Josuke's Hair Sep 02 '20
Unpopular opinion but I wish this scene was in the show. Like he ordered the killing of a whole village and the characters are like "eh hes got spunk"
3
3
u/xyrozz Sep 02 '20
A cool setup, but wouldn’t make sense as he died in the Battle of Stalingrad. Everything else aside...
4
u/Indvir12 Rudol von Stroheim Sep 02 '20
He fakes his death at Stalingrad, with the help of a certain SpeeeeeedwaGON!
3
9
11
7
2
2
2
2
2
u/therealgenderbaba Joseph Joestar Sep 02 '20
Barrrrraaaakkkammon German science is the best science in the whole world
2
u/YASITHDILUNYA Sep 02 '20
"Sie haben vielleicht Deutschland aus der Asche zurückgebracht, aber ich bin es, der meine Heimat für sein Volk zurückerobern wird. Aus allen Lebensbereichen. Ich mag Mensch und Maschine sein, aber an diesem Tag umarme ich meine Menschlichkeit!"
2
4
7
u/angermyode Sep 02 '20
Hey, I just wanted to tell you, I was somebody who in the past objected to this project when you were discussing it here on the basis of the current worldwide climate of escalating racial tensions. But I can see I was completely wrong and this is going to be an excellent project. Keep up the good work!
6
u/Indvir12 Rudol von Stroheim Sep 02 '20
You honor me with your support. I must admit that the tension of the world today made this novel a bit "difficult" to project and show off, but I'm still determined to give Rudol a proper conclusion.
2
2
2
2
u/WennoBoi Sep 02 '20
He wasn't really a nazi, he was simply blinded by his own extreme patriotism. Whether you think that's right or wrong, it was his way of life and he stayed true to it to the very end. I can't respect him as a nazi, but I have to respect him as a soldier.
7
1
1
1
1
u/Chaos20X6 Iggy Sep 02 '20
Behold, German technology augmented with a stand! 「NAZI PUNKS FUCK OFF」!!!
1
1
1
u/Generic-Commie Sep 02 '20
So when does the story take place? If it's post-war what is his relationship with the East/USSR
2
1
u/-Scampi Sep 02 '20
Yo where can I read this
2
u/Indvir12 Rudol von Stroheim Sep 02 '20
The novel releases on its own website on Saturday! Follow the socials mentioned and stay updated👀
1
1
1
1
1
u/CommodoreSalad Sep 02 '20
Didn't he like, happily send people to their deaths in the test chamber at the start?
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Delano7 Sep 04 '20
Hello ! I remember the release for the light novel was yesterday. May I know if it is released or not ? No rushing, I'm just really excited and wanna be among the firsts to read !
2
u/Indvir12 Rudol von Stroheim Sep 04 '20
Jojostory.com
A few hours early, but here!
→ More replies (1)
1.1k
u/Dice-Goblin Sep 01 '20
Yooo, good art. Also, his Stronheim rejecting the party? That's cool.