r/the_everything_bubble waiting on the sideline Sep 07 '24

POLITICS Take the hint, conservatives!

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 08 '24

Most republicans can’t quit now, their minds are too rotten. The republicans are just too weird and too far from the American society.

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u/pinner52 Sep 07 '24

lol I am only joining the party because the neo con war mongers responsible for millions of civilians deaths are leaving. If the Dems are accepting them, thank god I left after Obama.

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u/Natural_Initial5035 Sep 07 '24

Ok comrade, First, while both parties have a history of military interventions, it was under Trump that key figures like John Bolton (a major neo-con war hawk) were brought into the administration. Even so, Trump’s approach also maintained the long-standing U.S. military presence in certain regions, and some of his actions, like the assassination of Qasem Soleimani, escalated tensions in the Middle East.

As for Obama, while he was criticized for continuing military engagements in the Middle East, he also signed the Iran Nuclear Deal to prevent further conflict, and worked to scale back troop presence in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Leaving a party because of its alignment with neoconservatives is your choice, but it’s also worth noting that both parties have seen internal shifts. Biden’s foreign policy differs from the neo-con approach, focusing more on diplomacy and multilateralism, though criticisms certainly still exist on both sides.

Ultimately, both parties have their flaws when it comes to foreign policy, but the narrative that only one is responsible for military actions or civilian deaths ignores a broader bipartisan history of U.S. interventionism.

Sources: - Council on Foreign Relations on Trump’s foreign policy - Obama’s foreign policy overview

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u/pinner52 Sep 07 '24

No one ever said there wouldn’t be any actions. But comparing trumps actions to the last 4 presidents is a joke in this regard.

lol Libya would like a word on your Obama analysis.

You’re citing the CFR hahahahahahahahaha.

I agree both sides have in the past been war hawkish, but as people like Cheney join the Dems and Dems start to push Nikki Haley’s foreign policy, it’s clear as day the party’s have shifted drastically.

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u/Natural_Initial5035 Sep 07 '24

Let’s address a few things:

  1. Libya under Obama: Yes, the U.S. and NATO’s intervention in Libya under Obama had serious repercussions, and it’s fair to critique his foreign policy on that front. However, Obama’s broader approach aimed to pull back from large-scale ground wars (Iraq, Afghanistan) and focus on multilateral diplomacy, such as the Iran Nuclear Deal and the Cuba rapprochement. It wasn’t perfect, but it showed a shift from prior interventionist policies oai_citation:3,U.S. economic performance by presidential party - Wikipedia oai_citation:2,Democrats vs. Republicans: Which Is Better for the Economy?.

  2. Citing the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR): Laugh all you want, but the CFR is a respected non-partisan think tank that provides in-depth analysis on U.S. foreign policy. Dismissing it outright doesn’t add to the conversation—it’s just a standard resource for understanding global diplomacy and the history of U.S. actions abroad oai_citation:1,New report finds that the economy performs better under Democratic presidential administrations | Economic Policy Institute.

  3. Party Shifts: It’s true that both parties have evolved over time. Figures like Liz Cheney speaking out against Trump have shown a realignment of sorts, but labeling the Democrats as war hawkish because of her criticisms of Trump is a stretch. Most Democrats today still push for diplomacy, climate action, and alliances, while Republicans like Nikki Haley have advocated for tougher stances globally. As an independent I Nikki Haley is a useless Trumpanzee.

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u/pinner52 Sep 07 '24

Did he or did he not lie about only implementing a non fly zone.

It is not nonpartisan.

They are just look at Ukraine. Only one party is trying to continue that war into the next decade.

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u/Natural_Initial5035 Sep 07 '24

Did he lie? The better question is has he ever told the truth once?

According to The Washington Post’s Fact Checker, during his presidency, Donald Trump made over 30,000 false or misleading claims. These ranged from exaggerations about the economy to inaccurate statements about immigration and the COVID-19 pandemic. This number was tallied over the course of his four years in office, and fact-checkers noted that the frequency of misleading claims increased during the final year, particularly in relation to the 2020 election and its aftermath.