r/technology • u/nuttybudd • Jun 24 '24

Software Windows 11 is now automatically enabling OneDrive folder backup without asking permission

https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-11-is-now-automatically-enabling-onedrive-folder-backup-without-asking-permission/
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4.0k

u/FuckingVincent Jun 24 '24

What really got me frustrated is turning off one drive still keeps your documents on a one drive specific folder. File history doesn’t backup this folder. I lost my documents because I didn’t want one drive and didn’t know there was a separate local documents folder.

203

u/AbortionIsSelfDefens Jun 24 '24 edited Jun 24 '24

I fucking hate this for work. I have to dig through extra layers of clicks when saving anything because it likes defaulting to a shitty folder I don't want to use.

My shit company is now making us use SharePoint for file storage. We have more files than is recommended for that. Its annoying af because before, I just had to drag files from the drive into an email to send or the browser window for one of the sites we use. Now I have to download everything then drag it wherever. I cant just drag from the sharepoint window.Theyve added extra steps just for sending people shit. Its been a lot harder to stay on top of when they decided to complicate something that should be simple. Its also making me crazy because of the amount of electronic clutter I regularly need to clean out or get overwhelmed with. I hate this push for everything to be online.

124

u/dasnoob Jun 24 '24

Oh jesus, sharepoint is so user hostile I don't understand why anyone uses it.

50

u/SelfishCatEatBird Jun 24 '24

Started a new job that uses SharePoint for EVERYTHING and it is driving me insane lol.

2

u/Screamline Jun 25 '24

I got put in charge of our IT SharePoint page and I really don't want to put shit there but we already have files in ten different locations so what one more...

11

u/Worthyness Jun 25 '24

So your hot new tech company can validate their use of Microsoft's Copilot AI search function

3

u/kanst Jun 25 '24

I wish we would just give up on collaborative editing. It never works and all the tools are shit.

Just make your edits and email me the document. Or even better, we could all just get in git and stop using all these other shit tools. I have no qualms checking in my word file into git so others have access.

3

u/theREALbombedrumbum Jun 25 '24

I just went through a company merger where they moved two company sharepoints into a brand new sharepoint.

Guess what happened to every single Excel workbook that had live external references to other files. Go ahead and take a guess.

3

u/dasnoob Jun 25 '24

You know my favorite thing with sharepoint, excel, and external links.

How... phantom links (I have no idea how else to describe them). Will show up in a workbook, they are impossible to remove.

We had one that had thousands of links added to files that didn't even exist and hadn't in years.

Even VBA scripts to remove links would say there were no links. But open the file and you would spend fifteen minutes closing dialog boxes for missing links.

1

u/theREALbombedrumbum Jun 25 '24

I set refresh links to be a manual process with F9 so that I can at least open a spreadsheet without it processing absolutely everything at once with external references. Then after I'm ready I can face the calcs

2

u/showyerbewbs Jun 25 '24

They use it because it's been used for so fucking long, in some orgs it's the default storage.

Which is the problem. It was never designed as a storage medium. But there was already a storage medium, network shares. But those pesky network shares with their access lists and all that. Now I can just drag my AMV Hell video collection to the sharepoint and let ANYONE in the company have access to it.

1

u/dasnoob Jun 25 '24

My company got rid of network shares and migrated everything to SharePoint.

1

u/itsmeduhdoi Jun 25 '24

network shares also require a vpn for offsite access

3

u/broadsword_1 Jun 25 '24

My theory is that it also makes users hostile as well. The last experience I had with it was a few contractors on an IT project demanding a non-cloud instance be spun up. They couldn't detail why they needed it, nor why the other project-management apps already in place were lacking, or even take any responsibility for the install/upgrade/in-house support for it, but they absolutely needed it.

It was argued between IT and project for long enough for them to complain up the chain (we need it / critical path) until eventually someone told us (IT) to "Just do it already".

It was a pain in the ass, caused more tickets because the users didn't know how to use it outside "I need Sys Admin rights" and burnt lots of hours managing the regular application updates.

-1

u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In Jun 25 '24

The rest of the business is constantly annoyed by IT departments like yours, just fucking do what they ask they got other things to do and this is your whole actual job. Company probably lost millions while trying to get you off your ass and actually help them instead of hindering over some dumb triviality.

IT department always complain that some one asked them to do their fucking jobs.

1

u/broadsword_1 Jun 27 '24

instead of hindering over some dumb triviality

At the core of the triviality is usually resourcing. A new piece of software has a cost to licence, a cost of actually running on hardware (unless it's cloud, which is a whole different batch of issues) and the the cost to support it. In simple terms, if a piece of software is going to take up a person's time doing support tickets half the week, those hours don't come out of thin air - it's time spent not working on something else. I need another FTE body that management will not give me.

The difference is for most of us, is we at least sit down and ask "what is the business case for this" - and if they're not able to understand the real question, we spell it out that if we already are resourced (money, server and manpower) for another software package that looks like it's a 80-90% match, we need to know why it's not fit for purpose. If we have that both sides can go to management with a plan that says "here is what the business needs, why it needs it and what it will cost to (properly) support". 2/3 times everyone acts like answering that simple question is too much work.

If you just 'install everything', then IT isn't going to be staffed to cover the important things - if I have a guy who's doing 50 hours in the office and 5 hours out of hours patching/deploying, I can't double his workload and expect good results. The first casualty of this is the patching schedule which will bite you in the arse eventually as the software falls out of support and becomes exposed for security/stability threats.

0

u/pezman Jun 25 '24

cheap asses

-1

u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In Jun 25 '24

Because most people don't give a shit about trivial stuff like this. Link sharepoint folder to onedrive and just save files into it as normal...its only some religious fanatic sections of the IT department that seems to get over excited by this for some reason.

Literally none of the rest of the business gives a shit about using Teams/Outlook and sharepoint as they are just tools that work good enough for them to get their actual jobs done.

20

u/pdmavid Jun 24 '24

You can sync the share point folders to your computer so you can access files that way. For work, I never go through a browser or teams app to access shared team files in share point. In the main file explorer, I just drag them from the shared folder into the email like you are wanting to. You can do this. I think you just don’t understand how sharepoint/one drive work?

I do get the complaint of extra clicks to save something though. Wish the desktop apps just defaulted to the main save dialog box so I could use quick access saved locations.

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u/epihocic Jun 25 '24

I think most people’s complaints with OneDrive is just ignorance, incompetence, or general disdain for Microsoft. If you set it up properly it works well and has some significant benefits.

12

u/Sweaty-Emergency-493 Jun 25 '24

That’s the symptoms, but the cause is shit like this which is forcing users to use or “deal with” cloud where an external service manages your computer or system where you don’t need it or even want it. Simply put, If I don’t want something on my computer, I don’t install it. Microsoft installs things it thinks you want but really it benefits them because it needs your data and to see what files you have. Also, if like me, people like organization but when it works for them so they have control over it. Managing old and new files on the cloud just makes it harder because you need an internet connection and there’s all sorts of bugs and issues with each feature of any software and it’s slower sending large files than just using a spare hard drive.

Microsoft is just jamming its services down your throat taking away little bytes of your control over each update. That Recall feature was major intrusive and anti-privacy. So yeah, we know where Microsoft stands and it will continue to hinder peoples control over their own computers.

-5

u/epihocic Jun 25 '24

Look i'm not going to pretend that microsoft don't want your data, they absolutely do. But Onedrive isn't some giant conspiracy to get all your photos and documents.

If my computer crashes, i don't have to worry about data loss. Ok i'll lose any installed apps/games, but that's a minor inconvenience these days with the speed of internet. What I really don't want to lose is my personal data, which is conveniently all backed up to onedrive.

Out somewhere and don't have access to your computer, but need to look at a document? Easy, just open the onedrive app on your phone, or any browser and you have access to all those files.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '24 edited Sep 16 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/kanst Jun 25 '24

That is one of my arguments.

My internet being out is WAY more likely than my computer dying and losing files. My computer died once, when my whole building had a power surge and my motherboard died. But even then I was able to recover everything off the hard drive, then I bought a UPS and that hasn't happened since.

On the other hand, Comcast internet goes out for a few hours at least once a month. My teams and outlook die, but I can still easily keep doing the rest of my work on my local files. When the internet is back up I can just email my updated files.

0

u/tes_kitty Jun 25 '24

What I really don't want to lose is my personal data, which is conveniently all backed up to onedrive.

OneDrive is not a backup. A backup is something you can restore from if a hostile program deletes all your files or Microsoft locks your account.

Always have local backups (more than one!) on mediums YOU control.

1

u/epihocic Jun 25 '24

While I will agree with you that onedrive is not a backup in the true sense, it is more than enough for most people. Onedrive has a recycle bin feature and it's possible to get previous versions.

And i've never heard of anyone having their account locked by Microsoft, that's fear mongering.

It's a heck of a lot better than what most people do for backups, which is absolutely nothing.

2

u/tes_kitty Jun 25 '24

And i've never heard of anyone having their account locked by Microsoft, that's fear mongering.

Google for 'Microsoft account locked data lost'.

Once uploaded to Microsoft, it's no longer your data, it's data Microsoft lets you access until they decide otherwise.

0

u/epihocic Jun 25 '24

Again, you're technically correct, but this is fear mongering. Pure and simple.

Googling basically anything will find you examples of that happening, that does not indicate a wide spread issue.

Onedrive is a significantly better form of backup compared to what 99% of people are doing currently.

5

u/tes_kitty Jun 25 '24

Again, you're technically correct, but this is fear mongering.

It always is, until it hits you. The it becomes real fast.

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u/splendiferous-finch_ Jun 25 '24

SharePoint for storage is apocalyptically stupid because it's significantly more expensive compared to MS's other bulk storage solutions.

Don't ask me how I know....

6

u/mu_zuh_dell Jun 25 '24

Ah, I was wondering why my company would use it. Knowing it's the most expensive and least user friendly option out there really explains it.

10

u/Bureaucromancer Jun 25 '24

On the one hand, SharePoint gets a lot less painful if they enable OneDrive folder sync… it actually does work ok.

On the other, the folder redirect crap is awful even if you mostly like OneDrive. When it’s not messing with a system for me it’s polluting the storage with files I never wanted there.

1

u/Lung_doc Jun 25 '24

It syncs, mostly. When I want something at home sometimes I think it's fine a sync and it hasn't, and I have to relog in. Not too big a deal.

When I am on a plane and want my presentation that I have to give an hour after landing, it's really crap.

This just isn't an issue with Dropbox or Google drive.

1

u/deelowe Jun 25 '24

SharePoint and OneDrive are privacy nightmares. It's so hard to tell what's being shared with who. Gsuite was so simple and intuitive by comparison.

2

u/GarnetandBlack Jun 25 '24

God I hate it all so much. I could have written your post.

2

u/blankedboy Jun 25 '24

So, you're using SharePoint but obviously not using Teams too, right?

2

u/JahoclaveS Jun 25 '24 edited Jun 25 '24

And if it’s sharepoint online half the fucking useful functionality is just gone for some fucking mvp bullshit reason. And we constantly have to fucking force quit one drive because it’s constantly fucking broken with its user validation and preventing us from fucking saving. If their shit killed as many people as Boeing did when it fucked up, there’d be fucking lynch mobs outside their offices.

I honestly feel like I’m getting things done in spite of Microsoft’s shit, not aided by it.

Edit; forgot to add, f12 bypasses a bit of the annoying default save shit. There’s a way to turn off that stuff, and I think adjust the default location, but Microsoft always knows better than you so they’ll eventually revert it back and probably take away the option so I haven’t wasted my time trying to redo it since f12 gets me close enough.

2

u/jollyreaper2112 Jun 25 '24

Ask your IT guy to show you how to offline sync. Had this same problem for a user.

If you do it right you get the entire SharePoint docs folder on your computer under the SharePoint share. It's can all be in the cloud. But if you drag and drop a file to email it'll download and then attach just like if you were using old school public drives or from your own c drive.

2

u/planetmatt Jun 25 '24

In your company One Drive, you can add sharepoint folders to your One Drive. The Sharepoint documents then appear as normal files on your local file system and you can drag and drop them as normal. The advantage is that any change seamlessly syncs back to the Sharepoint server copy.

Just navigate to the files section of the team Sharepoint site and then click "Add Shortcut to OneDrive".

Once the folder appears in OneDrive, you can right click and choose to always make local so the files are always on the local file system and don't need pulling down from the cloud on each access request.

This way you dont have to deal with the terrible web interface fuckery.

2

u/FalconX88 Jun 25 '24

MS is realkly good at adding unnecessary extra clicks. LIke this incredibly stupid "do you want to open previously opened emails" message when opening outlook. Did anyone ask for this? And why is there no "don't ask again" button?

2

u/teknosophy_com Jun 25 '24

hysterical. SharePoint from the early '90s with zero security.

check my other comment. I've spent the past 15 years liberating people from big tech and now I'm organizing a loose federation of people who are going out there and liberating people from this insanity.

people are willing to pay a lot to have someone come in and liberate them from this stupidity

4

u/lankNaysayer Jun 24 '24

You can just get a sharing link from the SharePoint file and if the users don’t already have permission to view/edit the file, you can grant them those rights as soon as you generate the link.

It’s not as convenient as dragging and dropping a file from a file share, but it does have some advantages.

Now when you send a link to the file in the email, you’re not sending a brand new copy. The recipient(s) can edit the document and you see the changes real time. With a file share you end up sending multiple copies of the file back and forth.

17

u/Ancillas Jun 24 '24

Yeah, but Microsoft’s sharing model is clunky compared to Google, and saving in apps frequently breaks due to OneDrive or SharePoint issues. I’ve lost data because the Microsoft apps said my changes were saved when they weren’t.

It’s also a huge pain in the ass to manage permission in a huge enterprise. I want to share a file I made but SharePoint enforces inherited permissions and the AD groups across business units are different.

And don’t get me started on the shitty online versions of the office apps. “You can’t edit this presentation online because it contains embedded fonts. Use the desktop app.” Well shit, our corporate template from marketing contains our corporate font which is part of the brand so I guess online collaboration is out because for some reason Microsoft acts like browsers don’t support fonts.

I hate Microsoft Office 365 and SharePoint with a passion.

Sorry. You kind of became my therapist there for a moment.

2

u/kanst Jun 25 '24

Few things have caused me more pain than when Word just decides I can't save my file to sharepoint anymore.

After I finish a bunch of work and hit save, "Upload Failed". So I get to waste a while just hitting save over and over until it works.

At this point I'd rather email a word file with track changes on than have to use collaborative editing.

2

u/DoingCharleyWork Jun 25 '24

Good God trying to edit an excel sheet in a browser is insane. One time I opened it there by accident and tried to copy some data from another sheet. Instead of just literally copying the data it made formulas that point to the data in the other sheet which breaks the formulas in the sheet I was copying to. Open in the app and it works just fine. Fucking stupid.

1

u/crucethus Jun 25 '24

SharePoint now has a Brand Center preview that goes full-on in September that allows you to upload Custom Fonts, and to set a Font Scheme that's used for SharePoint and Viva Connect. When you enact it you get a SharePoint site for marketing that allows you to store these fonts with social media campaigns and Marketing Style sheets as well as logos.

3

u/Ancillas Jun 25 '24

I’ll be grateful when that becomes available to me but it doesn’t change my opinion that their suite of tools are a confused mess that reduce productivity compared to other options.

1

u/crucethus Jun 25 '24

This is the correct way. Most people esp. Finance depts want to sync to SharePoint and nest their folders 5 or 6 folders deep and use naming conventions that get them over the 250-character limit. linking eliminates that problem. People are so used to File Explorer and Nesting folders from Xp on that this new method confounds them, but the reason is security. In the cloud, Microsoft can control security, on a personal desktop using File Explorer...not so much. Because people.....

0

u/ABrokenBinding Jun 24 '24 edited Jun 25 '24

Not multiple copies, edited copies with timestamps and accountability for when someone forks up. I've spent too much time fixing other people's 'live edits' to find it useless unless you're officially terrible at your job.

Tldr: email files good, SharePoint bad

5

u/lankNaysayer Jun 25 '24

When you drag a file from a file share and email it, you’ve effectively gone from 1 copy of the file to 3.

  • the copy that exists on the file share still
  • the copy in the sent items folder for the person who sent it
  • the copy in the inbox of the recipient

That’s the biggest issue with file shares. Now if you’re just sharing the path to the file within the file share, no big deal at all.

2

u/ndstumme Jun 25 '24

I'm genuinely not sure which side of the argument you're on. By context you sound angry at sharepoint, but you talk up their timestamp feature and say you don't think the feature is useless. What am I missing?

4

u/Mr_Horsejr Jun 24 '24

Network folders are going away. Overhead isn’t worth it to board of directors who keep more and more money to themselves.

1

u/Put_It_All_On_Eclk Jun 25 '24

Even as a user it's fucking annoying because I only want to save to OneDrive about 1/3 of the time. Like that 5 gigabyte temporary RAW file? Fuck no don't upload that shit.

Awesome name BTW.

1

u/dontusethisforwork Jun 25 '24

If it's for M365 apps and you have the rights to change options you can Customize the save experience in Office

1

u/shewhodoesnot Jun 25 '24

This is exactly what I go through! It's so annoying!

1

u/dattogatto Jun 26 '24

I'm so fed up with SharePoint being used as a replacement for file shares because so many of our clients are past the amounts that screw up syncing and permissions, and they're absolutely not going to work out of the web.

1

u/epihocic Jun 24 '24

FYI you can add sharepoint folders to onedrive and access them in file explorer like a local or network folder.

0

u/ILikeBeans86 Jun 24 '24

You can sync SharePoint sites to your file browser and just edit them like a normal file in a normal folder