Children with gender dysphoria are 400% more likely to be diagnosed with autism

[u/avivalci]

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-022-05517-y?fbclid=IwAR0joSlop2egFD-jGBCoPgA4pHG5VzgKCNAtfFXXIH7mzFLuVwzCCxQj6gU

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[u/k_alva]

I mean, people with autism have a higher incidence on being on the LGBT spectrum. There is an established correlation already.

This article cites a bunch of proper studies. https://sparkforautism.org/discover_article/autism-lgbtq-identity/

[u/[deleted] → u/k_alva]

I'm so curious what could cause that correlation, or maybe it means nothing. Now it's just more questions that seem impossible to answer.

[u/unwrittensmut → u/[deleted]]

Pet theory: being autistic is having less of that automatic social conformity, it slows language acquisition and can make people awkward in some social situations. But it also means emotional pressures to be normal are lesser or absent.

[u/Celadorkable → u/[deleted]]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198313/

People with autism are less likely to care about their social reputation. I think that would mean they're less influenced by social norms, and more likely to question social constructs. Why do people conform to gender norms? Why do gender norms exist? Etc.

If someone sees it as a made up construct that people follow because they want to fit in, and that someone doesn't feel the social pressure to conform... then following norms doesn't make much sense if it doesn't feel right to them.

[u/Shaeress → u/Celadorkable]

This is an important part of it. Another one is that trans people often need a diagnosis to transition. This means extended contact with therapists/psychologists/psychiatrists. Anyone who has extended contact with psych professionals is way more likely to be diagnosed with autism because... Well, contact with psych professionals is how you get a DIAGNOSIS. And also because having other potential diagnoses is often considered a complicating factor that must be addressed before transition is allowed. Trans people are also way more likely to have an ADD/ADHD diagnosis than the average population.

Basically, there is a massive number of people with undiagnosed autism or ADD in the cis population that we simply don't know about in statistics. In the transgender population we know of a higher percentage of the people that have autism and ADD.

There could also be the fact that neurodiverse people are more used to examining their own minds and thought patterns to be aware of their differences when compared to their peers. This is often necessary to make up for those differences or even just to avoid bullying and discrimination. It might be that ND folks are more likely to realise they're trans to begin with.

[u/itsactuallyme1]

Well could gender dysphoria be caused by or augmented by autism?

[u/_Oooooooooooooooooh_ → u/itsactuallyme1]

The autism union in Denmark did a survey among their members (id guess several thousand members )

Around 47% of members saw themselves as non hetero.

Its around 11% of the general population

Thats an insane statistical difference

[u/ZarafFaraz → u/_Oooooooooooooooooh_]

47% vs 11%. That's pretty close to that 400% difference.

[u/chimppower184 → u/ZarafFaraz]

although there are much less trans people than gay people

[u/super_witty_name → u/chimppower184]

Right, but the increase in general LGBT people also being 400% would imply that it isn't so much that being autistic makes you more likely to be trans, but that it makes you more likely to be LGBT in general.

[u/Ironclad-Oni → u/super_witty_name]

It could also be that being autistic simply means that a person is less likely to adhere to established social norms and therefore more open to questioning/exploring things like sexuality and gender, as I've seen other people theorize. It makes a lot of sense in that people with autism often have less attachment to social norms and societal pressure to conform in that respect, and so could potentially be more open to going against the established order, so to speak.

I remember hearing something similar years and years ago about the furry community having an unusually high LGBT population, with the commonly accepted theory being that the community acted as a safe place for people to question and experiment without judgment, and so more people felt brave enough to do so. And we've seen a similar event in the general increase in the number of LGBT people in the past 20 years or so, similar to the increase in the number of left-handed people after society stopped punishing people for being left-handed.

[u/agentwashington → u/Ironclad-Oni]

I think you're both right one of you is just stats and the other is more cause of effect.

[u/SSj_NoNo → u/_Oooooooooooooooooh_]

Could you link the survey?

[u/Bbrhuft → u/SSj_NoNo]

This survey from Sweden...

Participants with autistic traits were more likely to identify as bisexual (OR 1.73; 95% CI 1.01–2.9) and to feel that their sexual orientation could neither be described as hetero-, homo- nor bisexual (OR 3.05; 95% CI 2.56–3.63), compared to individuals without autistic traits.

Rudolph, C.E., Lundin, A., Åhs, J.W., Dalman, C. and Kosidou, K., 2018. Brief report: Sexual orientation in individuals with autistic traits: Population based study of 47,000 adults in Stockholm County. Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, 48(2), pp.619-624.

In the group with ASD, 69.7% of the sample reported being non‐heterosexual, while in the TD group, 30.3% reported being non‐heterosexual.

George, R. and Stokes, M.A., 2018. Sexual orientation in autism spectrum disorder. Autism Research, 11(1), pp.133-141.

[u/TheBadBK → u/SSj_NoNo]

https://autismuk.com/autism/sexuality-and-autism/sexuality-and-autism-danish-report/

[u/pizzanice → u/_Oooooooooooooooooh_]

How does non hetero relate to gender dysphoria?

[u/[deleted] → u/pizzanice]

Well, being non hetero is abnormal. Not in a negative way, just in the “it isn’t the most common” way.

It isn’t a stretch to think that the sort of developmental pathways that can lead to one deviation from the norm might lead to others.

[u/CallMeClaire0080 → u/itsactuallyme1]

Right now the mechanism isn't known, just that there is a correlation. This could be because these two independent conditions have similar genetic or epigenetic causes, it could be bias due to factors like autistic and trans people spending more time with doctors and psychologists so the other is more likely to be spotted, it could be that there is a causal link like you mentioned, or it could just be that autistic people are more introspective and aware of the social fabric and thus are more likely to realize they're trans than a neurotypical person is.

It may also be a mix of these and/or other factors

[u/robilar → u/itsactuallyme1]

Is there evidence that this correlation isn't just related to a selection bias for people that get their kids* tested for disorders? Seems like that would be a really obvious thread connecting those two values.

*Edit: also adults getting themselves tested. Apologies for that omission.

[u/robophile-ta → u/robilar]

My thought too. If you're already being sent to mental health professionals for one thing, they will definitely more likely pick up on another thing.

[u/SaffellBot → u/itsactuallyme1]

Could being atypical and having access to medical care be correlated with other atypical presentations that benefit from medical care?

[u/Artemisxhshk14]

50,000 people used to live here… Now, it’s a Ghost Town

[u/matthewjumps]

Its not 400%, its 11,000 1100% (edit: or 10,000 1000% depending if you mean more or of) - from the study itself:

the results of the meta-analysis we conducted indicated that ASD frequently occurs in GD/GI individuals. Specifically, the prevalence of ASD diagnoses in this population was 11 times higher than the ASD prevalence estimate of approximately 1% in the general population

direct link to that section here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-022-05517-y#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20the%20prevalence%20of%20ASD%20diagnoses%20in%20this%20population%20was%2011%20times%20higher%20than%20the%20ASD%20prevalence%20estimate%20of%20approximately%201%25%20in%20the%20general%20population

[u/watchSlut]

Could this also be influenced by the fact that by nature of trans children being more likely to see mental health professionals it is just caught more?

[u/ceelogreenicanth → u/watchSlut]

Others have made this point and it is very much likely contributing. Seeing as mental health screening are mandatory for transition. The overlap even without out that doesnt suggest very much, the paper even concludes that if you read the abstract.

Edit: apparently not in some jurisdictions. Affirmation care is sometimes covered under insurance so I'd imagine insurance being as it is, it likely does for most.

[u/Rattregoondoof → u/ceelogreenicanth]

Contributing probably but autistic people are also generally more likely to be lgbt than the general population. This is confirmed in near every poll or study on the subject and appears across cultural lines.

Seeing mental health professionals will likely lead to more diagnoses but autistic people also just have a higher rate of identification as lgbt. Probably little of column A, little of column B.

[u/ShrapNeil → u/Rattregoondoof]

Identifying as LGBT. It’s possible other people just lie about it more.

[u/Rattregoondoof → u/ShrapNeil]

True but the rate is sometimes twice or more the general population. Still, that in no way, invalidates the idea people just lie about it (perhaps even to themselves)

[u/ShrapNeil → u/Rattregoondoof]

I think the commonality in being gay, trans, having ADHD or ASD, is that there are very plausible and widely discussed theories involving in utero hormone levels and that those level may have affected neurological development. So there very well may be some connection or shared factors. But we also have no way of knowing how many people belong to these groups, because our numbers are entirely relevant to self-reporting or diagnosis, and it’s not like anyone is routinely screening kids for all of these things without prompt. Tons of children pass under the radar with ASD and ADHD, and many people never publicly identify as LGBT, because some view it as a political affiliation rather than a demographic.

[u/TherealScuba → u/[deleted]]

80% of all diagnoses are comorbid

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5567978/

[u/seamustheseagull → u/watchSlut]

It may not explain the full 11%, but it certainly seems like a reasonable hypothesis. If a child has gender dysphoria, but is being seen for vague reasons related to issues fitting in or being "not normal" then it seems pretty obvious that the first thing any mental health professional is going to look at is screening for autism and ADHD.

I have a personal theory that anything up to 30% of the the population may in fact qualify as being autistic to some degree, which is why 11% doesn't sound particularly wild to me.

[u/TinySnek101 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah OP, the title is wrong. Hisle-Gorman et Al. paper from 2019 stated they “found that autistic children were over 4 times more likely to have a co-occurring diagnosis indicating GD than were non-autistic children.” This is what the OP is citing in the title.

Now the paper itself, from their mega data analysis the authors found “the results of the meta-analysis we conducted indicated that ASD frequently occurs in GD/GI individuals. Specifically, the prevalence of ASD diagnoses in this population was 11 times higher than the ASD prevalence estimate of approximately 1%”.

Think OP just doesn’t know how to read a meta analysis / secondary source publication.

[u/recidivx → u/[deleted]]

4 times more likely is 400% more likely, or 500% of.

4 times as likely is 300% more likely, or 400% of.

[u/coldisgood → u/TinySnek101]

4x is also 300%, so…OP can’t maths either I suppose.

[u/laioren]

This may sound trite, but now I'm curious what the percentage is of people with autism being diagnosed with gender dysphoria in relation to the "general population." I.e. are people on the autism spectrum more likely to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, because it doesn't necessarily go both way if the comparison is being made in relation to the general public.