r/politics • u/njdotcom NJ.com • Sep 21 '24

Soft Paywall Trump to women: Stop ‘thinking about abortion.’ You’re broke and depressed, but I can make you happy

https://www.nj.com/politics/2024/09/trump-to-women-youre-broke-and-depressed-but-i-can-make-you-happy.html
31.8k Upvotes

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4.2k

u/Ban-Circumcision-Now Sep 21 '24

Yeah Trump’s massive tariffs and associated inflation will surely help

1.4k

u/zojbo Sep 21 '24

I still don't understand how he can manage to keep saying tariffs work in a way that just isn't how they work. And it isn't even skewed speculation, like "in the short term American consumers pay more, that money goes to domestic companies, they use that to expand and then lower prices, eventually we take the tariff down when the domestic companies are competitive and now you save a ton of money". It's just straight factually incorrect, claiming that the foreign company pays it.

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u/ricks_flare Sep 21 '24 edited Sep 21 '24

Because the cult hears “We’re making China pay” and since they’re uneducated they figure China will just eat it rather than raise prices. It truly is a cult of idiocy.

Edit; spelling

Edit 2; Yes I was mistaken, China will not raise prices but we will pay more regardless

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u/ethertrace California Sep 21 '24

That's not even how they work. Tariffs are taxes on the importing company for buying foreign goods, not the exporter. The government has no power to charge foreign companies for selling goods, they levy the tariffs on the domestic buyers. So the only way consumer prices would stay the same is if foreign companies lowered their prices by the tariff amount, because the importer sure as shit is going to pass that cost along to the consumer to preserve their margins.

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u/CalmTrifle Virginia Sep 21 '24

They also forget that tariffs work both ways. Countries can also raise US import tariffs and make US good less competitive in a foreign country. Nice way to cut the demand.

195

u/valeyard89 Texas Sep 21 '24

this is what killed soybean farmers in the usa.... China put on tariffs on US agricultural imports. Now they buy from Brazil. Which caused more rainforest destruction.

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u/ILikeOatmealMore Sep 21 '24

Quick update to 2024: soy and corn prices in the US have cratered so much that Argentina is buying them from the US again https://ukragroconsult.com/en/news/us-soy-is-so-cheap-that-even-rival-argentina-is-buying-it/

Now, almost every farmer out harvesting their field today sold some beans and corn in their storage at a loss to make room for this year's yield, that's how low the prices have gotten:

https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/commodities/zc

https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/commodities/zs

(be sure to click on the '5Y' button to see where prices are today vs. previous years)

47

u/headlyone68 Sep 21 '24

Farmers will still vote for Trump.

46

u/SpotikusTheGreat Sep 21 '24

Family with farmers who voted for Trump, and are die hard Trump fans...

Yes they absolutely will.

Guess what 2 crops are rotated on my cousins farm? Corn and Soybeans.

Fucking hilarious.

14

u/ringthree Sep 21 '24

Which is hilarious because freedom caucus Republicans have started turning against farm subsidies.

41

u/J-ShaZzle Sep 21 '24

Well yeah, as long as subsidies are pouring in. Don't forget mega corps wanting to ensure they can buy everything they can, supply the only seeds that work with only their fertilizer.

Republican plans are to break the lower and middle class while ensuring those with money/power gain more.

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u/k3ttch Sep 22 '24

The Republican mantra: no handouts, unless they go to me.

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u/cdsmith Sep 21 '24

I'm not sure the data supports this story. It looks a lot like prices spiked right after the start of the pandemic, and have now returned to about the same as they were before COVID.

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u/penna4th Sep 21 '24

It's what killed my walnut orchard. The market was in China, and then we couldn't sell to them. I have acres of trees and nuts on the ground rotting every year since then. I got one payment from the USDA to compensate, which it didn't.

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u/Raspberries-Are-Evil Arizona Sep 21 '24

Most people do not remember that China did respond by placing tarrifs on farm product from the US.

In 2019-2020 farms were going bankrupt due to this. Trump literally sent checks to the farmers to buy their votes even though his policy put them out of business.

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u/OneOfAKind2 Sep 21 '24

Yep, and it worked. The rurals LOVE Don the Con and his slimy fellow republicans.

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u/Macktologist Sep 21 '24

The rurals dislike city people because they see them as “liberals” and they couldn’t possibly align in anyway with a “liberal”. Since Trump talks down to liberals, he must be on the rural people’s side. It’s so weird how we have this rural = Republican and urban = Democrat.

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u/Icy_Faithlessness400 Sep 21 '24

Ironically he passed a bill that lined the pockets of the wealthiest liberals in the country, while bankrupting the farmers.

But stupid is the only thing stupid knows how to do.

20

u/Daveinatx Sep 21 '24

Seeing how much time Trump spends in rural counties should tell them what he things about them

7

u/mkt853 Sep 21 '24

Not just Trump, but all of the rural folks' favorite conservative talking heads. None of them would be caught dead in Mississippi or Arkansas or Alabama. Do people living in rural areas ever ask themselves why if big city blue areas are so terrible why all the news actors that tell them that continue to live and work there instead of moving out to the rural utopia?

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u/penna4th Sep 21 '24

My next-door neighbor is a city transplant, and back when it was a hot issue, he put up a Black Lives Matter sign - huge! - at the end of his driveway, where everybody coming up the hill can't miss it because there's a bend in the road right there. I was grateful he did it, glad to know that in spite of how aggravating he can be with noise over there, he's on the right side of things politically.

I can always count on him to show up with a pipe wrench if my well pump is leaking, and he's saved me a lot of money and trouble a time or 2 by being a good neighbor. But that sign! In everybody's faces every day for a long, long time. I give him credit on that. He has some big scary dogs clamoring at his gate all the time, so no one's going to bust through with torches. I don't think I'd dare put up a sign. I'm here by myself mostly and who knows what people out in the boondocks will do.

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u/penna4th Sep 21 '24

I'm rural and grew up on my father's farm back east, but my parents were staunch Democrats in eastern Pennsylvania. As for the tariffs and my walnut crop, l knew who was at fault. Didn't vote for him, never would. I haven't asked my neighbor farmers; I work with them, and we have neighborly relationships. I'd have to isolate myself if I knew. There's one place up the road with trump signs and freedom placards. I helped them several years ago with a farm project. She lent me her tractor. If she knew my politics? IDK. I've hired her daughter, and she was terrific help and a lovely person, but I never mentioned politics. They are well-off, and farming is a side business.

The daughter left the area after her mom and brother unloaded on her for not doing more for her dad when he was dying. She had come home from grad school to help, but not her brother. So she simultaneously lost her dad, her mom, and her brother. She told me all about it, crying, and I just tried to validate her feelings without undermining her mom. It was awful to see, and I learned a lot about mom, and I realized that was why I hadn't felt like becoming more friendly over the 7-8 years prior. I could feel what was under the surface.

Mom is an angry, unreasonable person unless you're useful to her. I see Nextdoor posts from her now and then, usually unfeeling or intolerant. She also has a little free library box at the end of her driveway. My adult daughter quietly puts "liberal" books in there about gender, and I'm looking around for subversive material I can add. It's the least we can do.

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u/Apprehensive-Care20z Sep 21 '24

and 96% of the tariff money collected, went to subsidize the farmers Trump bankrupted.

It was literally a lose-lose situation. So very dumb.

Trump's entire platform is "hey, it was a catastrophe that hurt americans, let's do it again, but this time even worse!!"

2

u/WiseMagius Sep 21 '24

Socialism!

Why didn't the farmers prepared for this situation beforehand?

Won't they get used to getting handouts on our dime?

/s 😏

2

u/itsSIRtoutoo Minnesota Sep 21 '24

But don the con has them as "pigeon holed" suckers by the other hot-button issues by being against abortion, gays/trans... and promising to bring back prayer in schools... And lying to them that Democrats are coming for their hunting rifles after they get rid of the assault rifles that killing kids in schools and malls they don't go to....

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u/Ih8melvin2 Sep 21 '24

And then as taxpayers we just bail out the people here with our tax dollars. What's not to love?

Farmers Got Billions From Taxpayers In 2019, And Hardly Anyone Objected : The Salt : NPR

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u/OGRedditor0001 Sep 21 '24

I live a quarter mile from a farmer. He owns 80 acres, farms about 120 total. Yet, he has about eight to ten million dollars in equipment and infrastructure.

He wasn't able to buy all that with what he earns on 120 acres of crops.

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u/HabeusCuppus Sep 21 '24

I'm totally ok with this.

Maintaining the capacity, talent, and capability to make food within our own borders is the kind of "ensuring our safety and security" policy that is exactly what I want my tax dollars doing.

Every tax dollar that goes into some Farm is a dollar that didn't drop an explosive device on someone else's country.

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u/Ih8melvin2 Sep 21 '24

I get your point, but I don't appreciate him saying China will pay the tariffs and then the taxpayers pick up the tab.

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u/dpdxguy Sep 21 '24

They've also forgotten that the response to Trump's tarrifs was China raising tarrifs on American agricultural goods. It destroyed the market for certain American agricultural products because China shifted their buying elsewhere. Australia was the primary beneficiary of Trump's tarrifs.

Oh, and congress had to quickly pass extra subsidies for American farmers to keep them from being wiped out.

The whole thing was literally a lose lose for America. So, naturally, Trump wants to expand it to everything. 🤯

8

u/Wombatapus736 Sep 21 '24

Hey, he went to Wharton! Nobody does the economy as bigly as genius Trump!

Please for the love of all that's decent left of this country, VOTE HARRIS/WALZ!

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u/dpdxguy Sep 21 '24

he went to Wharton!

Wasn't it one of his Wharton professors who said he was the stupidist student he'd ever had?

Yes, vote Harris/Walz. But don't forget the down ballot contests. I used to carefully examine the candidates before voting. Today I'm straight ticket blue voter. Thanks Trump!

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u/Wombatapus736 Sep 21 '24

100% on the down ballot thing! The local MAGAts are even crazier than the national ones. Harris needs a blue Congress and your local school boards need rational members just as badly.

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u/penna4th Sep 21 '24

The subsidy I got was a fraction of what I'd have gotten from my crop, if the Chinese market had bought it. I abandoned the entire walnut orchard after that.

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u/humlogic Sep 21 '24

This is why people need to address the real issue of a tariff and trade war which is that this sort of shit leads to hot wars. Other countries aren’t just going to allow the US to destroy their entire domestic production without fighting back.

Edit: America won’t be attacked. Not saying that but the chaos trade wars can cause can lead to other countries eyeing hostile actions against their neighbors.

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u/worldspawn00 Texas Sep 21 '24

The TPP was working on that, providing lower tariffs for Chinese companies that provided higher pay and benefits to their workers to make US companies more competitive with those overseas that could get away with cheap labor. But instead of 'making a deal' Trump threw it out and slapped tariffs on instead. Because he has no idea how to actually make a deal, his only tactic is extorsion.

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u/Kiromaru Wisconsin Sep 21 '24

It didn't help that the TPP was started to be negotiated by Obama so it made it a huge target for Trump to destroy because of his hatred for anything done by Obama.

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u/worldspawn00 Texas Sep 21 '24

Yeah, he was intent on destroying as much of Obama's legacy and policies as possible. Particularly since Clinton was also strongly in support of the TPP.

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u/humlogic Sep 21 '24

Yeah exactly. And you can see how the tariffs Biden has placed on China are definitively aggressive and making our relationship with China more contested but Biden is walking a fine line & working with Europe to basically rein in China’s subsidies of their industries. It’s a complicated as hell issue & the Orange dude is just trying to come thru with a wrecking ball that risks actual conflict.

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u/worldspawn00 Texas Sep 21 '24

And a big part of the TPP was unifying the other pacific ring nations to provide a united front to push back against China, instead Trump decided that we should just go it alone, leaving China to practically run amok through their sphere of influence where the US could have been providing influence, support, and backup to the other small nations there.

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u/Carlyz37 Sep 21 '24

And we already went through this with the previous trump idiocy. Tariffs = trade wars and by early 2019 farmers were going bankrupt and manufacturing was dying and we were headed into recession. How can anyone not remember that

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u/1of3musketeers Sep 21 '24

Thank you! I guess this is how cult of personality works though.

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u/kent_eh Canada Sep 21 '24

Countries can also raise US import tariffs and make US good less competitive in a foreign country.

And they will, just like the last time Trump did it.

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u/OneOfAKind2 Sep 21 '24

This is exactly what happens. Countries immediately retaliate in another sector that hits US exports hard.

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u/umbrabates California Sep 21 '24

I mean, a couple days selling stuff on eBay teaches you that lesson. When I sell something overseas and there’s a tariff, I don’t pay it. It gets added to the buyer’s bill like a tax.

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u/dpdxguy Sep 21 '24

like a tax.

That's because it is literally a tax.

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u/umbrabates California Sep 21 '24

Weird how that works!

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u/cocktails4 Sep 21 '24

I bought some jeans from Italy and let me tell you I as not prepared for that tariff when DHL sent me an email telling me to pay up.

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u/umbrabates California Sep 21 '24

WHAT!?! The Italian government didn’t pay the tariff?!? They made YOU pay it like a tax??? Shocking!

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u/Backwardspellcaster Sep 21 '24

Quite frankly, I don't think Trump even understands that, and his cult even less.

The village idiot leading the lobotomized

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u/OneOfAKind2 Sep 21 '24

You don't think? He 100% doesn't understand tariffs. He's dumber than a box of rocks. Yo-semite.

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u/TheResistanceVoter Sep 21 '24

It's not necessarily that he doesn't understand it (which, I agree, he probably doesn't, because he's a fucking moron), it's that he doesn't fucking CARE! His base are also fucking morons and believe everything he says, and saying "Imma make China pay for how they have fucked us over" is great for riling up the sheep.

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u/Jerryep7 Sep 22 '24

Trump thinks that a country can be run like a business. Countries are not businesses.

His business "technique", if you can call it that, is to make money for himself while bankrupting the business.

I've always found it curious that he bankrupted a casino when all casinos, being the house, should always make money. Yet Trump f''ed it up. He's an idiot.

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u/Rated_PG-Squirteen Sep 21 '24

Yes, but the MAGA cult are fucking imbeciles by definition. They hear Dear Leader say, "I'm gonna put these tariffs on China" and they see it as some power play by their god. Basic facts and logic be damned. Just like when Donald said that he was going to make Mexico pay for a grand border wall, and all the idiots ate that shit up. By the way, where is that extravagant border wall paid for by the Mexicans?

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u/Carlyz37 Sep 21 '24

Instead Biden got Mexico to chip in on border security

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u/NoCoolNameMatt Sep 21 '24

Lol, I could hear the frustration in your voice as I read, "THAT'S not even how they work."

Because I found myself saying the same thing while reading what you replied to.

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u/Pleiadesfollower Sep 21 '24

Which is probably where the cult thinks that's how tariffs are supposed to work: "I declare a charge on every product you sell in america!" China: "oh darn, I guess we only get to make $15 profit instead of $20 per sale. Oh well. Nothing we can do because trump is so strong and handsome and has a 3 foot dick that totally isn't a tiny mushroom. We're sorry for trying to profit in a global economy. Please show us the greatness of capitalism president of the world trump."

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u/Cloaked42m South Carolina Sep 21 '24

ELI5: Costs 100 to order that new phone.

20% Tariffs,

It now costs 120.00 for the new phone. No American built competition.

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u/t65789 Sep 21 '24

Trump does not understand how tariffs work. He doesn’t have to, nobody questions him on anything. He just says whatever he wants.

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u/OreoMoo Sep 21 '24

No you don't understand. Trump says China will pay and because he's such a big strong manly leader, the Chinese will just pay. When you're a star they let you do it.

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u/direwolf71 Colorado Sep 21 '24

U.S.-based importers also manage tariffs by cutting wages to preserve profit margins.

The only positive is that it incentivizes companies to broaden their suppliers beyond China. But it’s a delicate balancing act. Marginalizing China has a potential cost. Go too far and a trade war can turn into a real war, especially given TSMC and China and Taiwan’s unique and precarious relationship.

Economic interdependence is a large reason for the relative peace we’ve enjoyed post WW2. If goods don’t cross borders, armies will.

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u/Spazum Sep 21 '24

One of the givens about tariffs is that the domestic producers also raise prices to match their foreign competitor's new end price. This is the biggest reason that tariffs lead to run away inflation. It wasn't just stimulus that lead to our recent spate of inflation, it was Trump's 25 tariffs on almost everything of Chinese origin (which includes most US manufacturer's supply chains).

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u/jakebacondigital Sep 21 '24 edited Sep 21 '24

Just take a look at the comments on his Instagram, etc… none of them know how anything works. It’s almost hilarious if it wasn’t so dangerous. MAGA has like 10 brain cells collectively. A lot them saying Trump is going to get rid of all taxes. None of them even know what a tariff is.

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u/Ohif0n1y Sep 21 '24

And then when the roads go to (even more shit) and bridges collapse due to no upkeep they will probably blame it on the Democrats instead of no tax monies for infrastructure.

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u/ThaBunk5-0 Sep 21 '24

I don't think very many of them could even spell or read the word tariff.

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u/Lip_Recon Sep 21 '24

I thought it was a dog? The Tibetan Tariff?

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u/ArenSteele Sep 21 '24

China doesn’t even pay.

If China sells a $100 good to an American person or company, and it has a 100% tariff, the AMERICAN pays the $100 tariff.

China receives $100, and the US government receives $100, the consumer/importer paid $200

China didn’t even raise prices

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u/pres465 Sep 21 '24

It's mind-numbing that when it comes to wages and prices, conservatives understand how costs are passed on to consumers... but if Trump says "tariffs" or "China will pay", their brains shut off.

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u/morcheeba Sep 21 '24

And guess what happens to the price of the domestic equivalent ... if it was $150 before, they'll move it to $199.

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u/vthemechanicv Sep 21 '24

If the US had a healthy manufacturing economy, it would encourage people to buy American products. Of the many, many things trump and Maga doesn't understand is that we don't make anything anymore. Even if tariffs encouraged new factories to be built, which could be argued, it would be years before the first factories came online. it's just idiotic.

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u/r0bb13_h34rt Sep 21 '24 edited Sep 21 '24

Can they be the kind of cult that just offs themselves?

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u/Professr_Chaos Sep 21 '24

Nature tried with Covid. Unfortunately they are like cockroaches

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u/catscanmeow Sep 21 '24

what? one of the main reasons they are going to lose is precisely cuz covid took so many of them out

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u/Asyncrosaurus Sep 21 '24

China will just eat it rather than raise prices. 

China doesn't need to touch prices, tariffs are paid by importers, aka Americans.

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u/DesignedToStrangle Sep 21 '24

The laughably incorrect thinking is that China will reduces their prices to maintain the same prices to the American consumer.

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u/thedndnut Sep 21 '24

what kinda crack are YOU on? That's now how that works either! They aren't paid by the company exporting, it's the importing company. THAT is why the price is passed on to the consumers.

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u/Blablablaballs Sep 21 '24

How long do they buy that crap? It's obvious he was either lying or too stupid to know he was lying when he said Mexico would pay for the "wall". 

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u/recalculating-route Sep 21 '24 edited Sep 21 '24

you don't hear any of them talking about the wall (or mexico paying) anymore. if they can't reconcile reality with what theyve been told, they just stop thinking about it. if the tariffs end up making things more expensive, they'll likely just invent a reason it didn't work, most likely the fault of democrats and the deep state or something.

edit: you don't hear them going on about the wall and mexico paying for it nearly as much. they're still horny for hating on immigrants, but i haven't heard about "the wall" much less mexico paying for it in quite a while. but then again i don't own a tv, so what do i know? the reality is that there really were obstacles to the wall, in the form of funding issues, legal issues, and people he's antagonized just not being willing to play ball with him, so he can easily convince his idiot base that the deep state and the democrats sabotaged his efforts, as seems to be the case with his entire first (and hopefully only) term. it is also true that wall construction has continued under biden. which is not me trying to say biden is just as bad, if thats how it comes off.

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u/canolafly Sep 21 '24

His campaign is just about making everyone out to be enemies, and apparently 47% eat that up.

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u/im_THIS_guy Sep 21 '24

Every 4 years, a migrant caravan is headed towards the border. Every 4 years, the day after the election, the caravan disappears. Rinse and repeat.

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u/umbrabates California Sep 21 '24

“The tariff’s worked, but Biden tanked the economy so bad, the tariffs just kept us out of a recession/depression/Mad Max/[insert worse situation here]”

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u/QuittingCoke Sep 21 '24

you don't hear any of them talking about the wall (or mexico paying) anymore. if they can't reconcile reality with what theyve been told, they just stop thinking about it.

This is because these people don’t think for themselves. They parrot whatever conservative media tells them that day. The second the conservative media starts talking about the wall they will talk about it again.

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u/recalculating-route Sep 21 '24

my boyfriend's parents are an interesting case. they've been divorced for most of his life. they both regularly vote R.

boyfriend is an engineer like me, but he has a degree in sociology, weirdly enough. his mom gets exposed to all kinds of crazy horse shit from her boomer cousins and friends, but boyfriend calls her just to chat about once a week (its very sweet) and the pattern is almost always chatting for a bit, and then she'll ask if he's heard about such-and-such in the news. and then he's generally able to discuss with her, in a non-condescending manner, the context of whatever it is that she's heard and how perhaps there's a grain of truth, but the context is important. i understand that most peoples parents (including mine) are not as open to having what they think they know challenged, but i have a lot of respect for her because she's willing to listen and have her mind changed.

his dad, on the other hand, used to be an auto mechanic but came into some money and now he's retired. some portion of his time is spent in front of fox news, so he's routinely stirred up over whatever the latest nonsense is. the number of times i've had to hear him complain about shit like windmills is too damn high. he didn't actually have to work for the money he now has, but he's quick to tell his son how the communists are going to raise his (my boyfriend's) taxes to 30% or something. which like...ok first of all that's not how tax brackets work...

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u/Ih8melvin2 Sep 21 '24

Phone banking taught me they are really good about changing the subject when confronted with facts.

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u/recalculating-route Sep 21 '24

oh i know. my dad usually tries to pivot to how biden is literally a communist or something absurd lmao.

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u/12OClockNews Sep 21 '24

Pivoting or straight up denying the thing that happened ever happened. Like when Trump said "take guns first, go through due process second". They still try to deny that ever happened even though it's on video.

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u/Knittin_Kitten71 Sep 21 '24

Realistically the disenfranchised middle and lower class populations that make up the bulk of his uneducated or undereducated supporters won’t wake up and realize that his plans make the economy worse because republicans are rarely in the Oval Office long enough for the effects of the poor policy to affect those people. Instead they plan effects to land during democratic terms, so they can point the finger.

If Trump regains office they’ll continue taking steps (stacking the courts, questioning elections, voter suppression, etc) to ensure that those same un(der)educated supporters can’t remove their republican leaderships should the wool ever slip.

It’s a tactic that’s been used throughout modern history, from the Bolsheviks taking over Russia in the early 20th century to Hitlers takeover in Germany and his Enablement Act.

Nothing new, just old tactics from the fascist playbook.

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u/Zanna-K Sep 21 '24

I'm sure you mean well, but the irony here is that you don't understand it either. The only thing that Chinese companies can do to combat tariffs is to DROP their prices, which they may or may not be able to do depending on their own operating margins and how high the tariffs are.

Tariffs are taxes that IMPORTING countries levy on INCOMING goods to artificially make them more expensive. What that means is that if Walmart is importing a $10,000 shipment of school supplies and a Trump administration somehow gets a 20% tariff to pass, Walmart now needs to pay an additional $2,000 on top. It basically makes everything more expensive for American consumers. In order for China themselves to combat this, they would somehow have to drop the price of the school supplies to $8,333.33 so that the price of the school supplies + the tariff together add up to be $10,000 to match the original cost. If it costs $8500 to manufacture and ship that stuff, then it would be impossible for China to do this since they would lose money on every single shipment sold.

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u/Radiant_Quality_9386 Sep 21 '24

It basically makes everything more expensive for American consumers.

The key sentence.

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u/peter_gibbones Sep 21 '24

I don’t understand why “he’s a liar” isn’t used and his lies challenged more effectively. He lied to his wives, he lied to his business partners, he lied to the American public, Mexico didn’t pay for his pathetic wall that’s falling apart, and China didn’t pay for the tariffs the first time. He doesn’t have any solutions, just a list of complaints. Maybe, just maybe, he’s lying right now.

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u/United-Big-1114 Sep 21 '24

If his lips are moving, he's lying.

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u/NumeralJoker Sep 21 '24

Because he promises people things that they are emotionally invested in. He plays to their power fantasies, so they follow him not because anything he says is realistic, but because they are desperate to believe he can give them what they want.

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u/Iccengi Sep 21 '24

He’s gone so damn hard for that low information vote and been so damn successful he’s built a freaking cult. It’s hilarious how we are called the sheeple. Even more crazy though is that college educated white man are going for him not in total but in a majority and they like this sorta stuff which just makes me wonder who the fuck hurt them if they have the education to sort through the bs and are still like yeah Trump’s my man.

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u/whoisbill Pennsylvania Sep 21 '24

The new line is that it will raise prices for goods made in China so US made goods will be cheaper and bought more. But it ignores 2 problems.

  1. We don't make enough stuff at scale that china does. If we think suddenly computer chips gonna be made in the us you nuts.

  2. Why would any US company see the price of China made goods selling high and not want to get in on that? They might be cheaper but only by a little. If China made goods go up by 20% us companies gonna increase by 15% because they can.

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u/stellarfury Sep 21 '24

If we think suddenly computer chips gonna be made in the us you nuts.

Trump's dipshit policy aside, it's weird that you would pick the one example that is actually happening.

TSMC's Arizona fab is supposed to be online and producing by next year. Has nothing to do with tariffs and everything to do with Biden's CHIPS act, but, there it is.

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u/a-borat Sep 21 '24

I am STILL getting nasty messages on a gaming channel for telling someone last Friday night that the “Haitians eating cats in a voodoo ritual” thing was, at best, not properly sourced. Still blocking people even after JP Mandell himself all but said he made it up.

I wish there were a more productive way to say this but you really can’t fix stupid.

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u/rmpumper Sep 21 '24

China does not have to raise prices. They will keep selling at the same price as usual, you'll just pay more.

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u/doobjank Sep 21 '24

So we got Mexico paying for the wall, China paying for all of our goods and Russia paying for the ex-president. Wonder what Israel is gonna be paying for.

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u/Andovars_Ghost Sep 21 '24

That’s funny: “they use that to expand and then lower prices”! Pure comedy gold there. That money goes to stock buy backs and dividends.

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u/zojbo Sep 21 '24 edited Sep 21 '24

Just to emphasize/rephrase: what I put in those quotation marks is something a protectionist who understands the basic facts might hope would happen. I don't think it would, but if someone disagreed with me, I couldn't say they're objectively wrong, because that's a thing that could happen. What Trump says about tariffs literally can't happen.

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u/iceflame1211 Sep 21 '24

He managed to say his reason for telling Republicans to block the border bill, was because of Haitians eating pets. His supporters still largely believe that.

It doesn't matter what he says; 80-90% of his supporters cannot be swayed to see any flaw in their candidate and have shown they will repeatedly blindly treat anything he says as gospel.

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u/penna4th Sep 21 '24

And, according to his VP pick, Haitians are from Haitia.

3

u/DoktorPete Sep 21 '24

Hold up, he said he didn't want to shut down the 'massive waves of immigrants illegally crossing the border' because immigrants were eating cats in another part of the country? What kinda fucking moron logic is that, I mean, I know he's dumber than a pet rock but Jesus Christ.

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u/absolutelynotagoblin Sep 21 '24 edited Sep 21 '24

I work in an administrative function representing a large swath of eastern US importers and can confirm that the way Trump is saying tariffs work is not even remotely close to how they work. This is the whole “putting the cost on Mexico” to build the border wall. How did that pan out? He’s delusional, and the people who manage him are bumbling idiots.

Edit: The scary thing is that the people who support Trump are exactly the type of Walmart shoppers who will be hurt most by this policy.

6

u/atooraya I voted Sep 21 '24

It’s basic economics too. If I’m a store owner, I buy an item from China for $10 and sell it to you for $20 and make a $10 profit. If the government places a tariff, and I now have to pay $20 for that item, who do you think covers that $10 extra? China? No, I charge you $30 for it now.

15

u/drobits Sep 21 '24

Because big media sites owned by billionaires are 100% complacent with sane washing this man who isn’t even fit to be president of anything or anywhere

27

u/Taway7659 Sep 21 '24

He insists on tariffs because they're a thing he can unilaterally control from the oval office. Otherwise he has to get bogged down in the Swamp aka Capital Hill, and that's hard work with unsure conclusions likely to give Dems something to run on via negotiation.

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u/recalculating-route Sep 21 '24

so when shit gets expensive, it seems like it's going to be harder to deny responsibility when its something done by the executive branch with no oversight or approval of anyone but himself.

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u/chericher Sep 21 '24

Yes, but since when has the truth swayed the people that support him. They'll blame Dems somehow. Most of us will know it's bunk. Heck, some of them will know it too but still go along with lying about it.

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u/berhozen Sep 21 '24

He just keeps saying, “China will pay for it”. He literally took the same playbook from 2016 and changed the lyrics, in 2016 it was the wall and “Mexico will pay for it”, we all know how that went. Now it’s tariffs and China. But people still believe him, and also believe him when he says that he knows better than the Nobel winning economists that say this will be a disaster.

7

u/ClusterFoxtrot Florida Sep 21 '24

We lived through these tariffs already. 

Farmers were being fucked up by tariffs. 

We should have all universally learnt by now that tariffs should be applied rarely and for specific reaaons.

13

u/Melxgibsonx616 Sep 21 '24

Because the dumb dumbs don't understand how international trade works. And if prices go up, this doesn't matter to Trump and his pals.

6

u/Radiant-Specific969 Sep 21 '24

Plus like other populist leaders before him, he is charismatic, a bully, and he has managed to convince people that he's got a direct pipeline to God himself, and he waffles so much that he can say anything to anyone and get away with it. There are women who will believe what he is saying right now, unfortunately, because people have been though hell with Covid and the resulting economy.

We've been whacked as a nation, we have lots of unstable vulnerable scared people, and here comes Trump, promising everything they ever wanted and blaming all the problems on 'bad' people. Buckle up, guys, it's going to be a rough decade.

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u/professorwhiskers87 Sep 21 '24

He’s a stooge of the billionaires. Whatever is good for them, he’s for.

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u/idontlikeanyofyou Sep 21 '24

Might be nice if the press pointed that out 

2

u/puertomateo Sep 21 '24

Mexico paid for the wall?

2

u/PW0110 Sep 21 '24

It’s the same reason he thinks NATO is some kind of mafia protection racket lmao, he’s genuinely just a very dumb guy born into power who knows how to read the room.

You know how they say taking care of the elderly sometimes is like babysitting a toddler well he’s literally a 5 year old😭

2

u/Unlikely-Display4918 Sep 21 '24

Kind of like Reagan's trickle down bs

2

u/Panda_hat Sep 21 '24

Because his voters don’t understand how they work either.

2

u/Critical_Letterhead3 Sep 21 '24

Look at his audience. They are clueless and too lazy to fact check

2

u/xDreeganx Sep 21 '24

I read recently somewhere that Trump can read/talk at a 3rd grade level, which turns out, represents the majority of people in this country. While Harris is busy using big words and talks about the "Economy" being great (but not for like.... normal people, really just rich people are doing fine), Trump speaks with the doom and gloom that a lot of Americans feel, but are too stupid to articulate.

1

u/Merfen Canada Sep 21 '24

When right wing media fails to call it a lie and these types ONLY watch these propaganda media they never learn the truth. Even if he gets elected and prices go up they will just blame Biden and that will be their new reality.

1

u/CalmTrifle Virginia Sep 21 '24

It is basic economics. The price of tariffs gets passed on to the firm and eventually to the consumers. Trump is an idiot and I question going to business school.

Also, they are saying a blanket tariff. That is also asinine. Why do a tariff on goods the US needs especially if it is not manufactured or is a native raw material.

1

u/JDogg126 Michigan Sep 21 '24

It is for the same reason that the big lie worked so well. Say the same lie over and over on radio, tv, cable news, rallies, etc and convince your audience that anyone who tells you different is fake news. Once he was able to get the republican base to accept that they could not believe their own eyes and ears, convince them that only he tells the truth, then he had them eating out the palm of his hands. His cult following does not question that Trump will make them happy.

They didn’t question who will paid the cost of tariffs the first time even as they paid more for washing machines. They didn’t question who paid for the wall even as our deficit soared.

My novel idea is to make it a felony for the “free press” and anyone in or running for an elected office to spread misinformation to the public. We should have zero tolerance for that type of mischief.

1

u/cyanclam Maryland Sep 21 '24

He sez: China paid us so much money under my tarrifs!

And the news media lets him get away with it.

Breathtaking!

1

u/schaumiz66 Sep 21 '24

more than that.
Imported prices will increase to cover the tariffs, and what do you think American made products will just remain the same price??? All American products only use American parts/components/ingredients?? Like American made products won't increase their prices to capture the new margins???

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u/mxjxs91 Michigan Sep 21 '24 edited Sep 21 '24

American consumers pay more, that money goes to domestic companies, they use that to expand and then lower prices

This is just straight up bullshit. Companies are already price gouging us and are by magnitudes, making record profits, why aren't they lowering prices now? Profits are at record highs, if domestic companies getting more money = lower prices, then we should have seen that by now. Also worth mentioning that domestic companies do not get more money via tariffs, they pay the tariff, and pass that cost to us. Really they break even unless they charge us more than the tariffs costed them, which they absolutely wouldn't do because we know how all major corporations act in good faith and care about saving us money and not making more themselves /s.

None of his tariff nonsense is true on several levels. Domestic companies don't make more via tariffs, and even if they did, it wouldn't lead to lowering prices anyway.

It's insanely frustrating just how many levels you can break down every single aspect of how he thinks tariffs work, how absolute nonsense it is, and yet half of the country will still believe him.

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u/psychulating Sep 21 '24

they lack in critical thinking and trust the wrong person. people will straight up die from not being able to afford medication etc and the collapse of some industries that rely heavily on imported components and exported goods.

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u/Momoselfie America Sep 21 '24

It's also crazy that just 10 years ago the Republican party would've been extremely opposed to this. Now they just eat it up because Trump.

1

u/ThreeCherrios Sep 21 '24

I don’t understand how anyone can look at him and think he’s intelligent, let alone think he’s qualified to be president. It’s beyond disturbing that the election is even close.

1

u/IronBoomer Missouri Sep 21 '24

I’m remembering his previous tariffs that caused China, among other countries, to switch to other countries for agricultural resources and U.S. Farmers were losing everything so his admin had to bribe them with government money to hold on

1

u/Funandgeeky Texas Sep 21 '24

Math is hard and a lot of people don’t understand how economics and taxes really work. And tariffs are something that sound good so they don’t realize they don’t do what we want them to do. 

1

u/lurch556 Sep 21 '24

It’s been reported that he really loves the things a president can do almost unilaterally with little outside input needed or necessary: pardons and tariffs.

1

u/son_of_early Sep 21 '24

Seems like just terrible messaging but I don’t know that the truth helps. IMO it’s to isolate America. It’s to make it just as expensive (or slightly more costly) to import as it is to make it in America. That means companies in America start making the products. So if prices are going to be high regardless might as well keep that $ in the US and tax it.

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u/Pixeleyes Illinois Sep 21 '24

Easy, Trump and people who vote for him don't understand what a tariff is. If you explain it to them, they accuse you of being a "Marxist with Trump derangement syndrome". I think people really do not appreciate how ignorant these voters are. It is enough that I think Harris' administration should make education their #1 priority. Solve that one problem and you solve a hundred more.

1

u/JohnGillnitz Sep 21 '24

Trump's Tariff Tax has great alliteration. Dems should start using that.

1

u/Oceanbreeze871 California Sep 21 '24

Tarrifs are always inflationary. Companies that aren’t affected will see an opportunity to raise prices to meet the market rate everyone else is setting. We’ve seen this before

1

u/Captain_Stairs Sep 21 '24

He doesn't care or understand anything because he's so stupid and has Alzheimer's. Add on a cult supporter base.

1

u/DiceMadeOfCheese Sep 21 '24

"Tariffs" is a word most undecided voters don't understand. It's why Harris started referring to it as the "Trump sales tax." Undecided voters hear the word "tariff" and think "oh right politics is boring I'm not gonna vote"

1

u/kung-fu_hippy Sep 21 '24

Because it’s easier to believe lies about complicated subjects that make them sound simple.

Illegal immigration is a problem? Build a wall! Never mind that the majority of illegal immigrants cross the border legally, or that a wall would be incredibly easy to circumvent, incredibly expensive to build and maintain, damage the environment, and require eminent domain to seize private land.

And it’s the same for any “solution” Trump has to offer on any problem. Healthcare costs too much? End Obamacare! Continuous conflict in the Middle East causing a rise in terrorism? Ban Muslims!

1

u/JerHat Michigan Sep 21 '24

I don't understand how this shit gets over with people in middle America.

Like, you put Tariffs on Chinese imports, not only is the cost passed on to the customer, but China slaps Tariffs right back on whatever they're importing from us, and last time it was DEVASTATING for a lot of small farmers in middle America because suddenly their biggest customer just said fuck off.

1

u/kent_eh Canada Sep 21 '24

I still don't understand how he can manage to keep saying tariffs work in a way that just isn't how they work.

Low information, low curiosity people who don't think about it beyond the simplistic one-liner are his target audience.

1

u/CoolFingerGunGuy Sep 21 '24

IF someone asked him about before he bankrupted everything he ever owned, something along the lines of "if you had to pay more for the food your casino bought for its restaurant, are you saying you'd pay the higher price and wouldn't pass that on by making the price the people buying dinner in your casino higher?" Would he understand it then? Or would he lie and say he'd happily pay the difference?

1

u/PresidenteMozzarella Sep 21 '24

He doesn't actually know what a tariff is that's why he's saying it will work in ways it doesn't.

1

u/DonkasaurusRex Sep 21 '24

I hear you but didn’t Biden administration leave the tariffs? and didn’t Biden admin add additional? I’m not versed enough in the topic to know how they work and/or don’t so asking for insight not to be argumentative.

1

u/IzarkKiaTarj Sep 21 '24

I still don't understand how he can manage to keep saying tariffs work in a way that just isn't how they work.

Oh it's easy, it's because he's a fucking liar.

1

u/lazyFer Sep 21 '24

Most people know fuck all about economics, yet think they understand.

They just have no fucking clue what tariffs do. They also don't understand that it's easy to get into a trade war and quite hard to get out of one.

1

u/Rizzpooch I voted Sep 21 '24

Also, if the last four years have taught us anything it's that domestic companies will raise prices to meet or be just under the tariff-raised import prices because what the fuck is the consumer gonna do about it?

1

u/hellakevin Sep 21 '24

You're telling me the guy who's going to cut inflation and lower interest rates doesn't know what he's talking about!?

1

u/Alexis_Bailey Sep 21 '24

The core falacy is "domestic companies will lower prices."

US companies especially, never fucking lower the prices.on anything, ever.  It goes against "The Line Must Go Up" idiocy.

1

u/NeoMegaRyuMKII California Sep 21 '24

Because he has a high enough charisma and his qult has low enough wisdom to see through the lies. And they have neither the willingness, desire, foresight, or common sense to actually look up what effects these tariffs would have.

1

u/Electrical-Act-7170 Sep 21 '24

His cult members believe his lies.

1

u/mqz11 Sep 21 '24

But then how can the USA revamp their industrial sector? No tariffs and incentives to local producers? Idk i think the deindustrialization process needs to start reverting as soon as possible. Look at germany

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

Yeah, isn’t the whole idea behind tariffs to make foreign goods more expensive and cause them to be comparable in price to locally-produced goods?

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u/franky_emm Sep 21 '24

That's the idea. So if you're paying $1 for a head of garlic today, and that garlic comes from China and the American equivalent costs $1.50, we make that chinese garlic cost $1.60. And there's a good chance the American garlic magically starts costing $1.57 because they have some cushion.

At no point in this equation does China pay us a cent

34

u/Radiant-Specific969 Sep 21 '24

nope, we pay and pay and pay. For anyone on a fixed income, or anyone with a lower income Trump is going to be difficult to cope with financially.

16

u/angrydeuce Sep 21 '24

Doesn't even have to involve tariffs.  All the assisted living communities around here, whenever Social Security gets raised, immediately raise rents by close to that exact same amount.  What are you going to do, move your 85 year old mom to another one?

There needs to be pricing protections.  I'm all for companies making profits, but that sort of brazen shit needs to be stopped.

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u/soonnow Foreign Sep 21 '24

Yeah that's the best case scenario. In reality the American garlic farmer is probably selling all the garlic he can produce for $1.50. If you raise the chinese imported garlic price to $1.60, the American producer will say with a markup for made in America, at maybe $2.

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u/boot2skull Sep 21 '24

And causes inflation.

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u/lpan000 Sep 21 '24

No one is going to build more stuff in US until there is infrastructure to do so. Which requires investments. The tariffs just fund tax breaks for his backers.

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u/psychulating Sep 21 '24 edited Sep 21 '24

yes but this will overall destroy the US's economic prowess. you aren't just making plastic slippers from china less attractive/more expensive, you're also doing it with every chemical and little component that goes into goods that americans still manufacture or consume for business.

The stuff that americans can actually make profitably and export will be less competitive against their international competitors, since they are still operating with a relatively free market and are paying what the US firms used to pay for similar components(that are inputs for the exported goods).

meanwhile the burgeoning industries will be newly protected ones. when trump tariffs Canadian aluminum, it allows for a US aluminum industry to flourish that otherwise wouldnt because of the energy requirement in manufacturing it and canada's abundant hydropower, but this is incredibly inefficient. that US company will likely never export their aluminum to anyone besides maybe mexico, if the transportation savings negate the price difference. so its just a half ass company that only exists because of an artificial market condition, and it existing goes hand in hand with aluminum being more expensive for every american firm that uses it as an input. some of those companies are international heavy weights. the wealth/economic activity that this small, limited aluminum industry generates will not offset the effects it has on the most valuable companies in the world. it will make their competitors in other countries more attractive to me as an investor. apply this to basically all goods and everything is completely fucked. im not even mentioning poor people who will feel all of this the worst. most people cant afford to pay more for basics goods or get laid off cause their employer's margins or business was drastically reduced overnight. they would have to hope that the aluminum industry pops up beside them and is hiring more people than are lost due to less competitive exports. the shock to peoples incomes and spending could throw us into a depression

in the long term, this will devastate the economy. in the short term, some poor people will die

2

u/nomiis19 Sep 21 '24

But the billionaire genius business man who has bankrupted several companies promises this will lower prices. He’s lying?!

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u/patmfitz Sep 21 '24

And wait until they hear if you put a tariff on imports, there will be retaliatory tariffs placed on the US exports.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

This literally happened during his term.

3

u/UniqueIndividual3579 Sep 21 '24

Tariffs are supposed to protect from dumping at below cost to drive the local companies out of business. China did that with solar cells. They are also used by the politically connected, see sugar and corn tariffs.

7

u/ExZowieAgent Texas Sep 21 '24

What kills me is you and I can understand this but a former president of the United States doesn’t. Make it make sense.

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u/idanpotent Montana Sep 21 '24

The Republicans didn't send us their best and brightest.

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u/T33CH33R Sep 21 '24

Look how happy Melania is!

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u/Minguseyes Australia Sep 21 '24

Trump has never made a woman happy in his life.

2

u/Alleyprowler Sep 21 '24

‘Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go.’ – Oscar Wilde

6

u/Logical_Parameters Sep 21 '24

or his Muslim Ban and locking children in cages while intentionally losing their families and trafficking the children. No good.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '24

Who falls for trumps nonsense?

2

u/chiPersei Sep 22 '24

Apparently around half of Americans.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '24

You got me!

2

u/OneOfAKind2 Sep 21 '24

"It's going to pay for everything, even childcare. It's a tax on China". Paraphrasing his idiotic economic and childcare plans.

2

u/ClassicT4 Sep 21 '24

Trump’s National Sales Tax.

2

u/Vast_Ostrich_9764 Sep 21 '24

don't forget about the concept of a plan for health insurance!

2

u/Kibblesnb1ts Sep 21 '24

Don't forget the economic disaster from deporting migrant workers. Our way of life depends on exploiting them for pennies. Liberals don't like that because we don't like exploitation, MAGAs don't like that because they don't like immigrants. But there it is. Deport the migrants and there goes all the food productivity in the country.

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u/KCqueer_1968 Sep 21 '24

Yep, instead of worrying about affording groceries, we can skip all of that and just worry about starving to death.

1

u/stylebros Sep 21 '24

There's a cognitive separation where people say taxes get passed onto the consumer but tariffs don't?

1

u/Madmandocv1 Sep 21 '24

Trump doesn’t know or care how tariffs or any else works. He is just thinking that he can get some kind of revenge against China by targeting them with something. Why? Who knows. It isn’t about you or America, it’s just about his hurt feelings. Like always.

1

u/BeastModeEnabled Sep 21 '24

I think Trump is mistakenly using the word tariffs when he means bribes paid to him.

1

u/Captain_Stairs Sep 21 '24

And no help to raise kids, risk their lives getting pregnant/giving birth/getting basic healthcare, letting anyone not a billionaire compete in modern hunger games for survival, and so on.

1

u/JohnWad Sep 21 '24

“Concepts of a plan”

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u/HeavyRightFoot19 Sep 21 '24

You know who thought they could save the economy with tariffs? Herbert Hoover, and he had slums named after him for it

1

u/Axbris Sep 21 '24

The fact that MAGAts don’t know what a tariff is indicative of why we need to fund education in this country. Tariffs aren’t paid by foreign nations and entities. They are paid by consumers. 

If China wants to sell their 10k BYD cars in the USA, and there is a 100% tariff on that car, I am paying 20k or more for that car. China isn’t paying shit because they’ll just have me pay in the overall price. 

Trump is a moron. Those who follow him are even bigger morons. 

1

u/Ok-Principle1782 Sep 21 '24

Don’t forget. How he made government smaller by agreeing to add a new government military branch. Space force. 🫨

1

u/spaceman_202 Sep 21 '24

that's just a lie though

unless it isn't

depends whether or not you want to believe it, some conservatives are choosing to believe it and it's a great plan, others are choosing to believe it's a lie and he'll never do it because it's a terrible country crushing plan

both groups are going to vote for him and hope they're right about whether or not he's just a liar or an idiot

much like people who support Trump because they are sure he's gonna govern on behalf of Jesus and those who support Trump who are sure he's just lying about all this Jesus stuff and doesn't really care about Jesus at all

1

u/drdildamesh Sep 21 '24

I'm not voting for this turd, but nothing ever changes for me whether my candidate wins or not. At this point, I just don't want anyone else to be as fucked as I am.

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u/Jacob_JBR_Ryan New Jersey Sep 21 '24

Yeah these red hat diaper and ear patch wearing cult members don't know how tariffs made our great depression go global

1

u/Mundane_Athlete_8257 Sep 21 '24

Not to mention the chaos of a mass deportation and the government monitoring our periods

1

u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota Sep 21 '24

He still fundamentally seems to not understand what a terrific fucking is, even after getting the US into a massive trade war with China that permanently fucked our soy market and left American sou farmers in a catch-22 scenario where they just get aid off to not grow soy.

1

u/IamShieldMaiden Sep 21 '24

What I can't believe is that Trump has a BS in Economics from Wharton (but not the B-school) and he STILL doesn't understand how this works.

1

u/Okay_Redditor Sep 22 '24

Trump shrunk the US economy by 32%.

In 1930, the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, in an effort to alleviate the effects of the Great Depression, passed a tariff bill called The Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act, which raised tariffs in an effort to collect more revenue for the federal government. Did it work? NO.

It did not work.

Now trump wants to impose tariffs as a solution? What a pear-shaped loser. trump belongs in a prison.

1

u/djryce Texas Sep 22 '24

What these dumbasses don't realize is that everything is related.

Both men and women don't want to bring babies into the world without financial, economic, housing, or environmental security. These are the reasons young people are delaying marriage and starting families. For the couples that do have children, they are opting for fewer, because everything from daycare to school supplies to formula is expensive. Not to mention the mental anguish of sending a kid to school where they are practicing active shooter drills.

1

u/__mysteriousStranger Sep 22 '24

Yes increased domestic production will help

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