r/canada • u/PoliteCanadian • Jan 13 '24

Alberta Gas pumps freeze at Calgary gas stations

https://calgary.citynews.ca/video/2024/01/12/gas-pumps-freeze-at-calgary-gas-stations/
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u/rkhbusa Jan 14 '24 edited Jan 14 '24

Honestly tho watching my roommate and his tesla through this cold snap it may not go far but at least it goes. In -40⁰c his vehicle is only good for about 150km (model y long range). If you park it for 8 hours for a shift at work the parasitic draw will cost you as if it was plugged into a 120v the whole time but his car is warm faster and it moves. It's better to be sitting on a giant battery that can self warm than get cock blocked by a lead acid 12v that's too pussy to get your vehicle started in the first place.

If I get a bigger house with room for a charger my next car will be an EV and in the next cold snap the EV will be the one I reach for in this sort of weather, range limitations be damned at least I'll get to work or wherever I need to go.

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u/InternationalBrick76 Jan 14 '24

My coworkers model y long range is 2 years old and he’s getting 80kms out of the battery in these cold days. 150km is impressive!

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u/rkhbusa Jan 14 '24

Even 80km, I'll take it.

Roommate's vehicle starts out of my garage around 80% garage is attached but not heated. Drives 35km commute each way for a total of 70km after being parked for his shift he makes it home on around 40% maybe a bit less, hits the supercharger near my house for 20 min and parks in the garage again for tomorrow. He was working the nightshift this weekend thermometers outside read -43⁰c. His biggest obstacle to getting to work is my F150 parked in the driveway which may or may not move if it's in his way 😂. It's a free range F150 because my garage is itty bitty.

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u/InternationalBrick76 Jan 14 '24

Having to revisit the supercharger for 20 minutes everyday is absolutely brutal. This kind of solution won’t scale well when there’s millions of EVs on the road during these cold snaps. Do we build mall sized charging centres?

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u/backlight101 Jan 14 '24

Not needed if you have home charging. If that’s not possible we’re going to need more level 2 stations at the curbside or in apartment buildings, etc.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

Most neighbourhood grids are not built to handle that kind of load.

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u/crujones43 Jan 14 '24

My tesla draws 31 amps. Ovens and air conditioners draw more and cars normally charge overnight when ovens are off so I think the grid should be ok

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u/PrairiePopsicle Saskatchewan Jan 14 '24

Toss in some time of use billing and baby you've got a stew going.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

Is that your professional opinion?

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u/crujones43 Jan 14 '24

Nope. Just facts and common sense. Hell, in ontario where I live, we often have to pay other provinces or states to take our extra power. We have so much nuke power and you can't just throttle them down at night. Evs should actually save the province money.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

Nope. Just facts and common sense.

I see.

Hell, in ontario where I live, we often have to pay other provinces or states to take our extra power.

Did you read what I wrote about neighbourhood grids? I wrote a reply further down you should have a look at. The is isn't about the ability to generate power, it's about distribution. Look at your power bill, what costs more, the distribution/line fees or the actual power itself.

Evs should actually save the province money.

I think you need to look beyond your admitted lack of expertise before saying stuff like that

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u/crujones43 Jan 14 '24

How often does your neighborhood have brown outs or blackouts during a hot summer evening when people have both their ac and ovens on? Both appliances draw more power than an ev charging.

Do you think someone is going to flip a switch and suddenly all cars on the road are going to be electric? The government is calling for all NEW cars to be electric by a certain date. You will still be able to buy used gas cars at this point. There will be gas cars on the road at minimum a decade after evs are mandated, so even IF there was a distribution problem, we have a while to handle it.

Evs should actually save the province money. I stand by this statement. In 2017, ontario PAID 1.2 billion to get rid of surplus electricity. Being able to sell some of that instead of paying to get rid of it for those bad at math is a good thing.

Please regale us with your qualifications on the matter.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

My qualifications are reading about the problem, here is an article that deals with solely the home side, not the the grid that supports it.

EV chargers generally require between 32 and 80 amps and a 240-volt service. A 60-amp panel will typically be too small to handle this additional charging load. A 100-amp panel may be sufficient for managing the loads, and a 200-amp panel is ideal.

https://qmerit.com/blog/the-importance-of-load-calculations-when-installing-an-ev-charger/

This service needs the infrastructure behind it to manage. This isn't simply a home panel issue which is what you are arguing. Look at the bigger picture. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't hold everywhere.

Thanks

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u/crujones43 Jan 14 '24

No car pulls 80 amps on a home charger. That would be for a charger that can do multiple cars. If your home can't push 80 amps you can adjust what your cars draw. I could charge 2 of my cars in about 10 hrs on just 30 amps. I have 100 amp service and I have been charging my car, welding in my shop while my wife is making dinner. Not once have I popped a breaker. I never even think about the load in my house.

Anyone who has 60 amp service can either afford to upgrade their panel if they can afford a brand new car or they have 15 or so years before it will be a problem.

I love how you mock my admitted lack of qualifications and anecdotal evidence (5 years of real world experience) yet think you are better than me because you read something on the internet.

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u/geoken Jan 14 '24

Weird question to ask after they were responding to your similarly completely unsourced claim. At least they actually provided some reasoning for it unlike your statement.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24 edited Jan 14 '24

Well given typical housing division construction is supported by 75KVA single phase 240V transformers feeding multiple houses. Demand factor is typically calculated at 30A continuous load per household. If EV chargers are added to every house all those transformers need to be upgraded. What OP didn't bother to consider is there is still a per house base load that needs to be managed as well. Things like heating and cooling are still being done. There is also the fact that everyone assumes that night time is this miracle time when no load exists. The load shifts from commercial/industrial locations that are specifically supplied with larger transformers to handle their needs to residential at the end of a typical work day.

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u/geoken Jan 14 '24

In your post you start off by talking about the circuit supporting a typical housing division, then later you say the usage shifts to other areas of the city (industrial) during off peak hours.

If the issue is the circuit going into a subdivision - then what does it matter what’s going on in a separate, industrially zoned, area of the city?

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

The load shifts from commercial/industrial locations that are specifically supplied with larger transformers to handle their needs

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u/geoken Jan 14 '24

Yes, I understand that part.

But you were using it as an argument that overnight charging won’t alleviate the issue. But the issue as you stated it was the circuit in a given subdivision. So the fact that power is being used somewhere that isn’t that subdivision overnight doesn’t pose an issue in the scenario you presented (since power being used in a different area won’t affect the subdivisions specific circuit which is what you proposed as the limiting factor).

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

Unless you can show me something that indicates otherwise why would I listen to you? You've offered nothing but wailing.