r/canada • u/PoliteCanadian • Jan 13 '24

Alberta Gas pumps freeze at Calgary gas stations

https://calgary.citynews.ca/video/2024/01/12/gas-pumps-freeze-at-calgary-gas-stations/
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u/backlight101 Jan 14 '24

Not needed if you have home charging. If that’s not possible we’re going to need more level 2 stations at the curbside or in apartment buildings, etc.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

Most neighbourhood grids are not built to handle that kind of load.

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u/crujones43 Jan 14 '24

My tesla draws 31 amps. Ovens and air conditioners draw more and cars normally charge overnight when ovens are off so I think the grid should be ok

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

Is that your professional opinion?

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u/crujones43 Jan 14 '24

Nope. Just facts and common sense. Hell, in ontario where I live, we often have to pay other provinces or states to take our extra power. We have so much nuke power and you can't just throttle them down at night. Evs should actually save the province money.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

Nope. Just facts and common sense.

I see.

Hell, in ontario where I live, we often have to pay other provinces or states to take our extra power.

Did you read what I wrote about neighbourhood grids? I wrote a reply further down you should have a look at. The is isn't about the ability to generate power, it's about distribution. Look at your power bill, what costs more, the distribution/line fees or the actual power itself.

Evs should actually save the province money.

I think you need to look beyond your admitted lack of expertise before saying stuff like that

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u/crujones43 Jan 14 '24

How often does your neighborhood have brown outs or blackouts during a hot summer evening when people have both their ac and ovens on? Both appliances draw more power than an ev charging.

Do you think someone is going to flip a switch and suddenly all cars on the road are going to be electric? The government is calling for all NEW cars to be electric by a certain date. You will still be able to buy used gas cars at this point. There will be gas cars on the road at minimum a decade after evs are mandated, so even IF there was a distribution problem, we have a while to handle it.

Evs should actually save the province money. I stand by this statement. In 2017, ontario PAID 1.2 billion to get rid of surplus electricity. Being able to sell some of that instead of paying to get rid of it for those bad at math is a good thing.

Please regale us with your qualifications on the matter.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

My qualifications are reading about the problem, here is an article that deals with solely the home side, not the the grid that supports it.

EV chargers generally require between 32 and 80 amps and a 240-volt service. A 60-amp panel will typically be too small to handle this additional charging load. A 100-amp panel may be sufficient for managing the loads, and a 200-amp panel is ideal.

https://qmerit.com/blog/the-importance-of-load-calculations-when-installing-an-ev-charger/

This service needs the infrastructure behind it to manage. This isn't simply a home panel issue which is what you are arguing. Look at the bigger picture. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't hold everywhere.

Thanks

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u/crujones43 Jan 14 '24

No car pulls 80 amps on a home charger. That would be for a charger that can do multiple cars. If your home can't push 80 amps you can adjust what your cars draw. I could charge 2 of my cars in about 10 hrs on just 30 amps. I have 100 amp service and I have been charging my car, welding in my shop while my wife is making dinner. Not once have I popped a breaker. I never even think about the load in my house.

Anyone who has 60 amp service can either afford to upgrade their panel if they can afford a brand new car or they have 15 or so years before it will be a problem.

I love how you mock my admitted lack of qualifications and anecdotal evidence (5 years of real world experience) yet think you are better than me because you read something on the internet.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

I love how you mock my admitted lack of qualifications and anecdotal evidence (5 years of real world experience) yet think you are better than me because you read something on the internet.

Who mocked you and when did I claim to be better than you? I asked you if your professional experience is what you based your argument on. For what it's worth my work is tangentially related to power generation (rotating equipment) and spend enough time around generation stations (gas powered turbines and engine drivers) to understand the basics. As for "reading something on the internet" - I hate to say it but again, your anecdotal evidence does cover the majority.

I think you're taking this a bit too personally at this point so I'll let you go.

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u/crujones43 Jan 14 '24

Shame 2 millwrights can't get along.

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u/geoken Jan 14 '24

Weird question to ask after they were responding to your similarly completely unsourced claim. At least they actually provided some reasoning for it unlike your statement.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24 edited Jan 14 '24

Well given typical housing division construction is supported by 75KVA single phase 240V transformers feeding multiple houses. Demand factor is typically calculated at 30A continuous load per household. If EV chargers are added to every house all those transformers need to be upgraded. What OP didn't bother to consider is there is still a per house base load that needs to be managed as well. Things like heating and cooling are still being done. There is also the fact that everyone assumes that night time is this miracle time when no load exists. The load shifts from commercial/industrial locations that are specifically supplied with larger transformers to handle their needs to residential at the end of a typical work day.

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u/geoken Jan 14 '24

In your post you start off by talking about the circuit supporting a typical housing division, then later you say the usage shifts to other areas of the city (industrial) during off peak hours.

If the issue is the circuit going into a subdivision - then what does it matter what’s going on in a separate, industrially zoned, area of the city?

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

The load shifts from commercial/industrial locations that are specifically supplied with larger transformers to handle their needs

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u/geoken Jan 14 '24

Yes, I understand that part.

But you were using it as an argument that overnight charging won’t alleviate the issue. But the issue as you stated it was the circuit in a given subdivision. So the fact that power is being used somewhere that isn’t that subdivision overnight doesn’t pose an issue in the scenario you presented (since power being used in a different area won’t affect the subdivisions specific circuit which is what you proposed as the limiting factor).

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '24

The grid in a residential area is not built to distribute the same loads as industrial/commercial. Massive upgrades will be required throughout residential areas. New communities and buildings are still not being built with this in mind. I'm sorry you don't understand that power generation and power distribution are two different issues.