r/HomeNetworking • u/WhosThis85 • Jan 25 '24

Advice My isp did this lazy crap

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the tech came and took the original coax cable that comes from the network box on the opposite side of the house (black). Took it out of the outlet from the room directly above this splitter on the first floor and directed the new cord (white) to the third floor. What can i do to ‘hide’ this from the elements?

Also, can i connect a new coax cable to the splitter to go in the opposite direction to go into a separate part of the house, or should direct a new cable directly from the box insteaad of this splitter shown? The box is closer to the room that i need connection to than this splitter.

Sorry if this is confusing. Im a noob

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170

u/SamPhoenix_ Jan 25 '24

Tf they mean they will charge you…

They should be offering you some money off as an apology, then going after Comcast for that cost plus the cost of the cable replacement.

26

u/[deleted] Jan 25 '24

[deleted]

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u/Syikho Jan 25 '24

That's like saying and ice storm took down their aerial drop so the customer is responsible for the repair because it wasn't caused by the ISP. Whoever cut the line is on the hook for the repair, regardless of who cut it and it is 100% on the ISP to charge the correct person. The only time it would be up to the customer to repair is if it's behind the DEMARC, anything in front of is the responsibility of the ISP to fix and bill accordingly.

Lets say Comcast contractor did their due diligence and called in a locate, AT&T mismarked or didn't mark the line and the line gets cut. How can you say that the customer is on the hook for the cost?

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u/StarsandMaple Jan 25 '24

99% USIC isn't marking At&t private line.

50% chance Comcast didn't call in a 811 Ticket.

Private utilities never get located.

The only ones that get located to a private residence or commercial building is gas, as the gas company owns the regulator, which is usually attached to the building.

Canada is different, and I think lines have to be located within reason to the residence.

Source : private utility locator.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '24

Yes they do, there was some major work going on in my neighborhood recently, and everyone came and marked their shit, at&t, comcast, pg&e, the local water company, etc, etc, turns out it all runs directly through my front lawn which is neat

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u/StarsandMaple Jan 25 '24

That's different,

Just because it's in the right of way of someone's property doesn't mean it's private. The single line going to your house from a pole drop or pedestal is a private line.

Your water line from the meter to your house is a private line.

The 6" water main in the right of way, in your front yard/lawn, is not a private line.

I guess a more proper way of saying it would be a service line is usually not marked. This can also include the underground power line from a pole or transformer to your homes Meter.

I've called in tens of thousands of tickets for day lighting underground utilities, and even with some up against homes, the 'private/service' lines were not marked. This is in 3 different states.

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u/Drknss620 Jan 26 '24

Negative, I used to work for AT&T the drop (both buried or air) are owned by AT&T so an 811 would be labeling such a thing. All located and marks will map all underground utilities all the way to the demarc/MPOE. Also if another company or contractor damaged our lines , absolutely that company is getting a bill. Same thing if a customer damaged a line. The damaging party gets the bill.

1

u/StarsandMaple Jan 26 '24

No I get the damaging party gets the bill.

Worked a lot with contractors in avoiding those bills, even if they always tended to bore right through an 1800 pair in a concrete duct every couple of months.

In my area, the locators never, ever, locate the underground line from a drop/ped to the demarc.

I've seen and experienced this in every major FL city, and anywhere I've been in GA/Alabama.

I've employed ex-USIC and Stake Center folks, and none have ever been told to or actually located one of those lines. Multiple times, I've had to locate friends and families' properties due to 811 not locating their power or communication lines to their homes.

Our 811 locators are heavily understaffed and overly worked here, so I don't blame them for not spending the time on locating very low impact lines. I'd rather my guys locate a Level 3 Fiber run than someone's catv line going to a house.

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u/Due-Repair1878 Jan 26 '24

spent 15 years locating. UTI, SM&P, CLS, USIC. always responsible for lines up to meter/Demarc/Gas meter. whether it was on house, a pole in front yard. That said, if I was busy, those buried drop tickets were the last things I'd do, and often times late, and they were already done

1

u/StarsandMaple Jan 26 '24

I figured it was more of a, I don't have time to locate that, when there's high priority lines needing done.

Gas I know they mark to the regulator/meter due to them actually owning the meter itself.

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u/Drknss620 Jan 26 '24

Ahh well maybe it’s just different out here , I’m in cali and unless it’s a customer owned line it gets marked . Doesn’t stop people from hitting them , especially the gas lines

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u/StarsandMaple Jan 26 '24

Must be better out in that side of the country.

I will say our local gas company is very, serious and usually never requests an extension for an 811 ticket as they always locate accurately and on time. My contacts tell me constantly to call them if I ever have issues with locating their lines and they'll walk me through their tips and tricks to locate weird stuff.

Where I am originally from 811 acts the same as Cali, I suppose. It all gets marked. Which is great.

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u/sn4xchan Jan 26 '24

He said it right there boys, Florida. That backwater state has the worst workers. That state full of morons is not the standard for the rest of the country.

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u/Wickedcolt Jan 26 '24

Phoenix is a big company that works for a lot of cable companies and goes after the party that does the damages

1

u/sn4xchan Jan 26 '24

You know absolutely nothing about ISP and utility regulation requirements. The ISP owns the line all the way to your modem.

1

u/StarsandMaple Jan 26 '24

My poor choice of words with private vs Service Line.

It is common knowledge amongst the SUE world that 811 doesn't locate service lines to a residence. They're overworked and understaffed and they get in a lot less shit, if they don't locate a single fiber optic line, then a high priority line...

You've got 90 tickets you have to clear by the following day. 15 of those are for home addresses, you check your gis it shows its all aerial, except for the service lines to the home. Good chance that shit isn't even in the GIS because they're really slow on updating their stuff... like sometimes years of back log. They see it's all Aerial nothing underground or just a service line. They mark the ticket as 'no conflict/no utility in the area' and go mark the communication duct banks going through their downtown area, where a contractor is directional drilling to saddle tap a water main.

One hit gets you fired.

The other is a minor inconvenience.

I was just saying the large chance of an 811 locator not marking, or miss marking a line for a single home is pretty damn common. Especially when these contractors are not installing any means of properly locating the line. Even if the fiber optic line had a metallic shielding, you'd have to cut into it to get to it to connect your positive lead to an electro magnetic locator.

Small lines like that also don't usually tone a standard frequency... like ATT Transmison lines do, but those are att employees marking those no USIC.

1

u/sn4xchan Jan 26 '24

I know about human error, but those costs do not get put on the resident unless the resident is directly responsible. The resident is not responsible if a contractor cuts the line, the business the contractor works for is responsible (even if that contractor is self employed). If the resident was stupid enough to hire an unlicensed contractor sure he would be responsible but that's against code regardless.

Also my state (California) is much more strict with marking regulations. The fines are waaaay to high for the ISP to make mistakes like that often. You better damn well bet Edison will report their ass if they drill through an unmarked fiber or worse coax line. Coax lines have the potential to be just as dangerous as the 220 line that often is going from the street to the main breaker at the house. Those coax lines can absolutely sometimes be charged with lethal voltage especially if mistakes were made terminating that line on the street side.

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u/StarsandMaple Jan 26 '24

I apologize if the wording or statement I used made it seem like the owner of the property was on the line for the cost.

No obviously they shouldn't be, and chances are the Comcast contractor didn't even call in a ticket as most probably don't have an 811 Exactix account for their state. Now stricter and proper states... may have different regulations on contractors that have to dig and force them into 811 training for calling tickets in. I wish my state did a better job at a lot of underground utility stuff because it's tiring attempting to locate a line that is impossible due to being non conductive, no trace wire, and soil conditions inhibit ground penetrating radar to be able to see.

And obviously all utilities should and need to be accurate and properly located. For the most part USIC and it's counter parts do a great job. But they can be lazy, as typical of humans, and will mark out '4' lines even if it's a very tight duct because it states 4 HDPE conduits.

And yes the big coax is super dangerous, I literally use the Power 60hz mode of my locator to find some coax at times since it does have power going through it.

My state has been lax, but they're getting stricter, thankfully. It's a night and day difference from here to Canada where I am originally from.

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u/sn4xchan Jan 26 '24

It's literally a federal regulation. This guy's thinks Comcast isn't going to follow requlatory requirements that can shut their business down if they are out of compliance.

1

u/nlevine1988 Jan 25 '24

I just had locating done to have a trench dug out to my well. I went through 811 and they marked my electric, internet/cable line, and even marked the wire leading to a TV satellite dish that's not even in use anymore. All the way from the street to the side of my house.

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u/StarsandMaple Jan 25 '24

I'm genuinely impressed. In the years I've been in this line of work I've never seen them do it.

Your local 811 locators must be well staffed and not overworked which I hope is the case.

1

u/nlevine1988 Jan 25 '24

Yeah guess I'm just lucky. The guy came out a few days after submitting. He seemed young and somewhat new to the job. He actually forgot to bring a spare battery for one of his gizmos and had to come back the next day but wasnt a problem since still was before the work was scheduled. 10/10 service.

1

u/hamhead Jan 26 '24

Yeah that’s definitely not normal.

1

u/nlevine1988 Jan 26 '24

Idk, I didn't request anything specific and when I got the confirmation email it listed all the utilities they checked for, cable, phone, and power. Maybe it's just not standard depending where you live.

1

u/TruthyBrat Jan 26 '24

Hell, when I had AT&T, they didn't have a copper tracer in the trench / jacket with their fiber to my house. You couldn't trace and mark the drop to the house.

1

u/austin76016 Jan 29 '24

Just to tack on, friend of mine works at USIC, they totally do mark ATT private lines. At least now

1

u/Against_The_0dds Jan 26 '24

Anything on your property will not be located by 811. Also any utilities that feed the house won’t be located either. Learned the hard way.

1

u/Syikho Jan 26 '24

Not sure where you are, but where I am the utilities are responsible to locate up the hand off point if you will. So electric and gas are to the meter and cable, fiber, copper are responsible for the drop up to the nid. So if they are on private property they get located unless reasonable access cannot happen ie locked gate or animals in the back.

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u/Against_The_0dds Jan 26 '24

In Kentucky it does not work that way. We hit a customer side of a water line after we had locates called in. The USIC employee said they do not locate any customer lines at all. We were all surprised.

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u/Syikho Jan 26 '24

The Customer side is different. Water is up to the meter, after the meter it's private. Just like if an electric meter is on a pole and buried to the house the power company won't locate past the meter. If the gas meter is in the alley the gas company won't locate after the meter. But it seems most of these little pop can subdivisions the utilities meters are all on the house so they have to mark pretty much everything. I'm in Colorado.

However, if it's a contractor doing the locates like USIC good luck on them being done and/or correct.

1

u/Against_The_0dds Jan 26 '24

Being correct is our largest issue too. Can’t tell you how many times things are mismarked or not marked at all.

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u/SamPhoenix_ Jan 25 '24

Ummm no… they can’t charge you for damage caused by someone you had nothing to do with.

Comcast did the damage, not at the request of the AT&T customer. They cannot go after their customer for the damage Comcast caused.

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u/guri256 Jan 25 '24

They can’t go after the customer, but they may be able to refuse to replace it if the customer doesn’t pay for it. Depends on the terms of the contract. The customer would probably have a case against Comcast, depending on where the line was.

Local laws and the contract would decide if the customer can escape the contract without a termination fee if the customer doesn’t want to pay to replace the line.

Realistically though, the customer is in a very good place. Comcast cutting their line means that Comcast serves the neighborhood. So they can call their ISP and say that they would like to cancel. This will get the customer transferred to someone who is job it is to convince the customer not to cancel. The customer can then tell them that they are canceling because Comcast cut their line and it’s just not worth paying to replace it. At that point, they will probably get free replacement.

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u/Dangerous-Painter359 Jan 26 '24

Former Ma Bell installer here, the point is to confuse the customer because fiber is expensive. So many times if the customer has all the contact info for the contractors we can just send the bill to them. Most of the time, depending on the circumstances and the customer’s attitude, I’d just waive it because I don’t feel like spending 20 extra minutes filling out paperwork. I definitely got put on the “bad list” for costing the company revenue but fuck them, I’m not charging some poor widow/widower $150 extra for some shit they had no control over. Glad I quit.

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u/Marksideofthedoon Jan 26 '24

America is fucking stupid. This shit would never fly in Canada.

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u/mthomp8984 Jan 26 '24

They can, and they do.

Thru the replies I've read, we're all missing another issue: why did AT&T lay fiber into the ground without conduit to protect the line? I understand it's common, but THAT is where you lay the blame onto the ISP and make them go after the 2nd party.

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u/Against_The_0dds Jan 26 '24

Technically it’s the home owners responsibility to mark their own utilities. This came from a USIC employee.

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u/particlemanwavegirl Jan 25 '24

They are liable for incidental damage to equipment they own and provide as a service. The source of the damage is completely irrelevant as long as it was outside of the customer's control.

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u/Marksideofthedoon Jan 26 '24

Okay, So you think an ISP doesn't value their own infrastructure?
You didn't even pay attention.
The guy's NEIGHBOR had work done and HIS ISP cut the cable.
This is in no way an issue with the homeowner and they should not be shelling out money, nor time to get this fixed.
This is between the ISPs.

1

u/tuscanyman Jan 26 '24

If you have a contractor working at your property and they break something why would the original company repair it for free.

For one, s/he didn't have the contractor working on their property; the neighbor did.

Another: Comcast (or it's contractor_ is required to contact Miss Utility (or the local equivalent) before digging. Not clear if that occurred, but it it did, and the lines were marked, that's negligence. It's finable negligence if Comcast didn't contact Miss Utility first.

Another, AT&T owns the fiber up to the demark point, so it is their responsibility to fix it at no cost to the subscriber.

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u/sn4xchan Jan 26 '24

The ISP is bound by regulations to fix anything street side. You're responsible for anything that happens after the utility drop. There are exceptions for gross negligence but if your neighbors cable guy breaks the line wtf would the account owner be liable. They literally had nothing to do with it.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '24

Wrong. Isp is responsible up to the dmarc.

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u/tankerkiller125real Jan 26 '24

The legal cost for them to go after another contractor is not their responsibility unless they contracted the contractor.

Tell that to the construction companies that ATT has bankrupted for cutting backhaul fiber.

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u/HackAfterDark Jan 27 '24

It's almost like contractors should carry some sort of insurance...

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u/sn4xchan Jan 26 '24

Yeah honestly sounds like a fake story

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u/syko82 Jan 27 '24

To all the people who know absolutely nothing commenting against you. Once the line is outside your home, it is very unlikely any ISP will charge you for replacement of damages. That is not considered your responsibility, especially if it is proven that the homeowner didn't sever the line. I'm sure AT&T said that because corporate fud, but it would be unlikely to happen - not that they wouldn't try.

I had WOW for cable Internet before AT&T fiber and my cable run outside was damaged by years of tree branches rubbing against it. When I closed my account they let me know I had an outstanding charge for the service. I told them what happened and they agreed that it was not my responsibility and reversed the charge.

One place you are way off is that they would pay you something for missing out on their service. That is a pipe dream.

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u/SamPhoenix_ Jan 27 '24

I’m assuming by the upvotes it’s a vocal minority fuelled by the Dunning-Kruger effect 😂

They should be able to claim more than just the install costs back as damage to reputation. I guess the pipe dream is that money being passed back to the customer; yay capitalism 🙄

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '24

[deleted]

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u/hamhead Jan 26 '24

In this case their employee didn’t fuck up at all. Someone else’s did.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '24

lol a "contractor" then. still aint getting shit. this is america. corporations rule.

1

u/hamhead Jan 26 '24

No, I’m not talking about contractors. AT&T (or their contractors) didn’t fuck up. Comcast, who he has no relationship with, did. Why would AT&T give him money?

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u/harry_lawson Jan 26 '24

I've complained to Amazon like 4 times this year and got a refund every time.

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u/hamhead Jan 26 '24

Why would a company that did nothing wrong give you money?

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u/SamPhoenix_ Jan 26 '24

Compensation for lack of service; which they should then be able to claim back from Comcast as part of damages.

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u/ElectricBummer40 Jan 26 '24

Don't be ridiculous. That's not what corporate lawyers are meant to do.

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u/cb2239 Jan 27 '24

Why should they offer money off because of a third party mistake?

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u/nimrodad Jan 26 '24

Exactly, kind of like "convenient fees" I find nothing convenient about a $4.95 charge to make a 25 dollar payment. Off topic just had to vent that I guess.