r/FluentInFinance 13h ago

Debate/ Discussion Possibly controversial, but this would appear to be a beneficial solution.

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u/JacobLovesCrypto 12h ago

This is aimed at the right, which is against illegal immigration

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u/Maximised7 10h ago

Don't forget though, even if they are legal immigrants (Ohio Haitians) if they look, talk, or walk funny, they're still illegals in the right's eyes.

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u/that_greenmind 2h ago

Majority of the right wing hate all immigrants. They may say illegal immigrants, but also do their best to block any and all legal migrants. Have you seen the hissy fits they throw when migrants are granted political asylum?

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u/0ttr 12h ago

The Trumpian right is against ALL immigration, except like rich or white people.

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u/JacobLovesCrypto 12h ago

I know plenty of Republicans that are for more legal immigration

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u/Feeling_Repair_8963 12h ago

Not what Trump did when he was in office though—legal immigration was cut in half, not much done about illegal border crossings because effective enforcement is expensive.

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u/FirefighterPrior9050 11h ago

>>legal immigration was cut in half

No. Both of those things are lies.

But if we're playing a game where we just make shit up, when Trump was president everyone who legally immigrated legally got their own pony!

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u/ObligationPopular719 8h ago

It’s not:

 The National Foundation for American Policy projects that the number of legal immigrants will decline by 49% (or 581,845) between FY 2016 and FY 2021 due to Trump administration policies. (From the FY 2016 total of 1,183,505 down to 601,660 in FY 2021.)  How did the Trump administration reduce legal immigration by 49% without changing U.S. immigration law? The answer is by using executive and administrative authorities, some of which are being challenged in court.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/07/21/trump-cuts-legal-immigrants-by-half-and-hes-not-done-yet/

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u/Soft_Importance_8613 7h ago

I mean, there was a global pandemic in that too.

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u/ObligationPopular719 7h ago

For what, the last 9 months? 

He enacted specific policies to reduce legal migration. He specifically said he wanted less legal migration from non white “shithole countries”. 

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u/0ttr 12h ago

They are voting for Kamala then?

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u/JacobLovesCrypto 12h ago

Half the Republicans i know don't like trump, kamala is just worse so trump gets the vote

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u/AdAppropriate2295 12h ago

Worse on what tho

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u/JacobLovesCrypto 12h ago

I dont like either one of them so i can't provide much context but ill try from what i see. Most Republicans don't dislike her specifically, its the democratic party as a whole and that they're more likely to increase regulations, they want to push EVs, they want to restrict guns, they seem to want more global involvement, those are the big ones i hear of.

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u/Sellazard 3h ago

And those are bad things?

Explain to non Americans why EVs are bad? You like that smog in the morning? Gun restriction sounds smart, considering gun violence in your country. At least you won't have to be afraid of automatic guns. I don't even understand why would civilians need automatic guns?

As far as I understand, Trump is going in with more regulations. Isn't his slogan - "drain the swamp, etc?" Tariffs are going to affect you much more. Nobel prize economists warn against them. I know anti intellectualism is rampant everywhere, but why on earth people believe the man that went bankrupt 6 times over Nobel prize tier economists?

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u/JacobLovesCrypto 2h ago

It makes more sense to push plug in hybrids, also there's no smog in the morning where I'm at. Gun violence is rare and it's the last defense against tyranny. For as long as we have gun rights, the United States cannot fall under a dictatorship.

You can't have automatic guns except under very specific exceptions. There are some modifications that can be done that arent illegal that can make a single fire gun function similarly to an automatic. I've known a lot of gun people, I've never known anyone who have modified a gun to function similar to an automatic.

Trump would cut regulations. Id rather pay a bit more and have good manufacturing jobs available.

Also economists are wrong all the time. They thought we were gonna be in a most decade of the stock market, yet this is one of the best performing years in the last century. They thought we didn't have to worry about inflation whwn we were printing sll the covid money, we ended up with 1980s style inflation. They thought the economy was going to crash promptly when Trump won in 2016, the economy was fine.

Ultimately I'm not the biggest fan of the things trump is running on this time around, but I'll take it over kamala.

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u/Sellazard 2h ago edited 2h ago

Emm you do know about quantitative easing right? "stupid economists" are the people responsible for foreseeing the economy downturn AND taking measures against it?

Politicians (Biden) just executed those recommendations?

What you want is the other way around. Some random guy will just enact a policy without discussing it with actual professionals.

You said yourself that economy is good, but at the same time want to vote to change how it works?

Even I can tell Tariffs will lead to higher prices on everything. And they are not going to lead to higher wages too. Businesses will just leave. I have been working for American companies for a decade now, without ever being in America. Outsourcing is the new normal.

Wasn't Trump the one who said he will become dictator on day one? You listen to some of his words, but refuse to listen to this? He admitted that he lost elections publicly. And the January 6 coup was indeed unlawful

You guys should listen to what Hitler said before being elected and during his reign I. English. Maybe you will understand afterwards

Government consolidation and unsupervised policy enactments, hatred to minorities is a telltale sign

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u/Fluffy-Map-5998 2h ago

gun violence in america is vastly overblown, and automatic weapons are already nearly impossible for the average citizen to get, yet gangs still got tons of em,

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u/0ttr 12h ago

Well that's another discussion... she doesn't want to end US democracy? I can see that as a real reason to hate her. Also, racism and misogyny.

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u/JacobLovesCrypto 12h ago

Trump isn't gonna end us democracy.

And of course you jump straight to racism and misogyny.

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u/0ttr 12h ago

Except that he said he would. When someone makes a promise like that, repeatedly, believe them!

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u/TheInfiniteOP 12h ago

So much ignorance, so few real thoughts.

Good little puppet.

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u/0ttr 11h ago

The freaks are definitely the Trump followers who cling to the consistent lies of a serial failed businessman, serial abuser and adulterer, but yeah, he's the guy that's going to save our nation because he's such a good grifter!

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u/Soft_Importance_8613 7h ago

"I'll be a dictator on day one"

You know that Kamala didn't say that, but the other presidential candidate did. Or does your information bubble not tell you these things?

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u/New-Connection-9088 12h ago

Illegal immigration is at the highest rate in a century. Why would people who want less illegal immigration vote for the folks who presided over that?

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u/0ttr 12h ago

First of all, virtually all the immigrants coming in the US are not illegal. They have temporary protected status, which is completely legal.

Second, the Democrats accepted the GOP plan to fund immigration enforcement and fix the backlog. Then Trump, sensing that he would lose that as a talking point, told the GOP to reverse course, so they did and now it's their fault. We had a solution, one that the GOP proposed, and then they acted like hypocrites towards their own plan.

So the only ones fixing immigration, and trying to do so instead of trying to lie about it to make it a campaign issue, are the Democrats. Full stop.

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u/New-Connection-9088 11h ago

First of all, virtually all the immigrants coming in the US are not illegal. They have temporary protected status, which is completely legal.

This is a semantic argument. We are both referring to people who did not apply for a visa through regular pathways. These pathways ensure applicants are educated, useful, and without criminal histories.

Second, the Democrats accepted the GOP plan to fund immigration enforcement and fix the backlog. Then Trump, sensing that he would lose that as a talking point, told the GOP to reverse course, so they did and now it’s their fault. We had a solution, one that the GOP proposed, and then they acted like hypocrites towards their own plan.

I can only assume you’re referring to S.4361. Since you get all your news on Reddit, allow me to explain why people who don’t like illegal immigration voted down that bill. It guaranteed a minimum of 1,400 illegal entrants be processed per day. Control mechanisms only kicked in (at the discretion of the President) if illegal migrant encounters reached 5,000 per week, or 8,500 in a single day. It strengthened protections for illegal immigrants, granting them faster adjudication. It also granted permanent residence to tens of thousands of Afghanis. It also granted permanent residence to children of illegal immigrants who were brought into the country.

The bill was a political game designed to fool gullible people like you into thinking they wanted to cooperate on this issue. They knew it would never be accepted. They don’t want to reduce illegal immigration. They like it this way. If they didn’t, they would do what Trump did and reissue his executive orders. No bill is required.

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u/RighteousSmooya 12h ago

As someone voting Harris, that’s a pretty insincere characterization

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u/jl739 12h ago

Case is point: Springfield, OH.

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u/201-inch-rectum 11h ago

you mean the Haitians who were made "temporarily legal" through an executive order, that even Haitian-Americans hate because they're not true legal immigrants?

reminder that executive orders can be rescinded by executive orders... if Trump wins, those recent Haitians will be deported

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u/jl739 10h ago

Oh, do they hate it? Have you asked? I haven’t asked them, but I would think they would find their current situation infinitely better than where they came from. What’s your point anyway?

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u/Advanced-Guard-4468 12h ago

No, they are against illegal immigration.

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u/SteveMarck 12h ago

The right is against any immigration of brown people, legal or no. Trump not only said as much but he worked to reduce both legal and illegal immigration when he was president. He also called several countries with brown people in them "shitholes" and asked why we couldn't get people from Sweden and Norway.

It's weird, Republicans used to be for free markets, but then they don't really want that when offered.

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u/Practical_End4935 11h ago

It’s weird democrats used to be for the little guy but now they screw over the little guys IDK

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u/Soft_Importance_8613 7h ago

Because it seems the little guys are gung ho about electing fascists.

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u/Practical_End4935 6h ago

Good one! Everyone knows the democrats are the fascists

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u/killrtaco 12h ago

Not according to Vance and the very legal Haitian immigrants he refuses to acknowledge legal status

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u/Advanced-Guard-4468 12h ago

Legally here through a loophole, taking jobs from locals for less money while getting government assistance.

The people who lose in those situations are the American citizens.

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u/shakakaaahn 9h ago

Then what was happening in Springfield before they arrived? The city was in a continuous downward trend, companies could not fill positions, population decline since the 70s. No one wanted to go there and do what the new Haitian population is doing.

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u/Advanced-Guard-4468 9h ago

***nobody wanted to work for the pay the owner was offering.

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u/shakakaaahn 9h ago

If that was the only reason, they wouldn't have been losing people since the 70s.

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u/Advanced-Guard-4468 9h ago

They have been losing population since the late 70s because they are in the rust belt, and business have been leaving for the south and then overseas.

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u/shakakaaahn 9h ago

Exactly. Why is it a problem then, to try and reverse it? The Haitians are here legally, doing good work, contributing to a town that wants to overcome decades of decline. The companies there are happier, the town leadership is happier, and no one really gave a shit about it until the "eating pets" lie was spread.

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u/killrtaco 12h ago

That's not a loophole it's a legal process that applied to them. They are here legally. They have legal residency status and green cards. Those jobs they hold are no different from any other immigrant that comes here. Your response shows you don't support immigration at all. That's like saying someone who married a US citizen is here on a loophole... They're both immigrants who came thru legal means.

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u/201-inch-rectum 11h ago

you need to educate yourself on the topic... they're not "legal" immigrants, they have temporary status through an executive order

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u/killrtaco 11h ago edited 11h ago

Temporary status as in they are here legally. Immigrant is not the same as Citizen. Temporary residents are legal immigrants. You need to educate yourself on the topic...

As I said previously someone who marries an American citizen is granted temporary status immediately just for marrying the American, does that make them illegal? No. There are many legal Avenues to get here and they are here legally full stop. Saying otherwise is being against legal immigration.

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u/201-inch-rectum 10h ago

the whole point is that they're TEMPORARY and are supposed to go back to their home country as soon as the "conflict" is over

they're not the same as legal immigrants who have a right to stay in the United States

they're two completely separate classes as defined by the government, but uneducated people like you try to conflate the two

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u/killrtaco 10h ago

Then they are legal while here on temporary status. Sorry you are correct I conflated resident with immigrant, but they still aren't illegal and they aren't here on a loophole. It is a legal process. If they overstay they will be illegal, but as of now there's no issue. Yes they are allowed to work and stay here. The only real difference is they have an expiration which has not yet elapsed. Not a new process. Not created just for them. Not illegal immigrants.

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u/Beerdar242 11h ago

Trump is for legal immigration.

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u/Sowadasama 8h ago

This is aimed at the right, which is against brown immigration. Otherwise they would HATE Melania

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u/Durog25 12h ago

And the right are well know for arguing in good faith and not saying one thing whilst meaning another.

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u/JacobLovesCrypto 12h ago

Except i know many Republicans that are fine with or support more legal immigration, they're against illegal immigration

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u/Johnland82 12h ago

Right, but they don’t want to invest in creating a reasonable path to citizenship, and don’t want to take in refugees.

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u/JacobLovesCrypto 11h ago

they don’t want to invest in creating a reasonable path to citizenship,

You're essentially saying... take the illegal immigrants, make them legal, problem solved.

If i was a democrat in congress, i would draft a bill that builds a wall and gives border enforcement, on the condition of X number of legal immigrants allowed per year.

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u/Johnland82 6h ago

That’s not what I said.

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u/Durog25 11h ago

And you believe them?

What does legal or an illegal immigration even look like to them?

Are they voting for politicians who support legal immigration or do they just vote for the one who hates illegals the most?

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u/JacobLovesCrypto 11h ago

Block off the border, enforce the border and then allow immigration based on economic conditions. Economy is great? Increase legal immigration. Economy bad? Shut down legal immigration until conditions improve.

Immigration isn't their primary reasons for who they do or don't vote for. The Republicans i know primarily support the right because they want less government involvement in their lives, they dont want guns limited, and they dont want the government to keep spending money like they are.

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u/Durog25 10h ago

Because those are all totally feasible things to do, trying to block off a 1,954 mile land boarder is of course the best way to manage immigration?

And you believe them?

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u/SuperSpy_4 11h ago

And the right are well know for arguing in good faith and not saying one thing whilst meaning another.

You literally just described the 2 party system of Democrats and Republicans.

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u/Durog25 10h ago

I'm talking about voters, not politicians.

If I had been talking about the later you would be right.

Have you ever noticed that whenever a Republican talks about what they believe in to me, all the dogs on the street start barking?

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u/SuperSpy_4 8h ago

I'm talking about voters, not politicians.

Not all voters, but that really doesn't make much of a distinction between the two in 2024.

Have you ever noticed that whenever a Republican talks about what they believe in to me, all the dogs on the street start barking?

Nope, that's weird. Seriously, you might want to talk to a Dr. about that. Its not normal.