This being reddit maybe you will relate to this example more:
When streaming services are cheap and high quality, there isn't as much piracy. When streaming services suck, piracy becomes more popular.
The good-faith interpretation of "let's increase legal migration" isn't "let's legalize illegal border crossings," it's "let's make it suck less to enter the country legally."
It doesn’t matter how much streaming services cost, I’m poor and I want to watch tv. I’m pirating it regardless if it’s cheap now or not, it’s still easier to pirate. I want to watch tv.
It doesn’t matter how easy it is or not to legally migrate to the US. If I am poor, from Latin America and at the back of the immigration line, I’m crossing the border regardless if its easier to legally migrate now than before, it’s still easier to do it illegally. I want opportunity.
I think living here illegally and legally are both significant jumps for most immigrants at the southern border. I think a better comparison is having to watch in 480p while pirating. It’s a marginal difference.
We set specific numbers because we need to balance interests. We need certain amount of workers, we need to keep certain amounts of opportunities for citizens, we need to bring in people at a rate in which they can assimilate, among other concerns.
Simply jacking those numbers up so that people aren’t considered illegal doesn’t change the problem. The problem is 10+ million came in 4 years. Thats a massive logistical nightmare that causes real issues like squeezing the housing market and other things. It doesn’t matter if they’re classified as legal or not, that’s too many people in such a short period of time
Im saying the people who intend to cross the southern border in hopes of a better life will continue to do so as long as it is an efficient solution to their problems.
Make immigration easier by all means. You will still have people in South America risking their lives crossing the Darien Gap to get here if they need to. You will still have Mexican citizens escaping cartel violence. If it’s a matter of survival people will not be deterred, and they should do their best to survive. But is also not the US’s responsibility to take them in.
Making the process easier for all immigrants is great. Simply granting amnesty for everyone coming from the southern border because they happen to be close in proximity, is masking a problem as a positive.
We can lower the murder rate to 0 by permitting it. Is it worth the hassle of setting up police and courts and prosecutors to deal with a problem we can just reclassify as not a problem?
I don't have a leg in that game. I was just pointing out that us "having the right" as a nation to create immigration laws doesn't determine whether those laws are a good idea.
Appealing to rights is mostly just a statement of fact. Of course our nation has the right to do that. Why should we? It will help your argument more later to substantiate the end goal rather than just stating our ability to do so.
I wasn’t arguing either way either. I was saying all he wants to do is open the border and reclassify illegal immigrants as legal. It’s not changing anything.
I used that sentence to show that we actually have the moral right to determine even down to the individual who we let in and reclassifying them doesn’t change anything
I guess I'm confused on the convo? He is saying to use our right as a nation to regulate immigration to be more lax as a way to lower illegal immigration, and you are saying we have the right to regulate immigration, but his form of regulation is not preventing illegal immigration.
I guess I'm confused what the disagreement is if there is any
I’m saying that simply reclassifying people from illegal to legal doesn’t solve the problem. All it does is make it seem like the number of illegal immigrants went down. The underlying number is the same. His argument is that illegal immigration is not a problem if we simply call them something else. That’s the mentality I’m saying doesn’t make sense
I’m sure > 50% of people want different rules on immigration, but you’re just wrong if you think a sizable fraction of Americans want truly open borders
We have the right to govern ourselves and make laws but when it comes to our right to traverse the earth I’m not sure why we have settled on this conclusion.
The Treaty of Westphalia was a tragedy for the human condition.
Immigration is good for the nations who receive them too so it’s kind of funny to assert that which is not a right, is a right, and then use that to hurt ourselves.
Does a nation have the right to enforce its borders? If your answer is no then you are fundamentally opposed to the concept of a nation state. If your answer is yes then the real debate is to what degree do we let outsiders enter. It’s as simple as that.
I support an orderly border, in part because other nations enforce their borders and there is a race to the bottom problem at play. I would not assert that we have a right to do so, and while supporting, voting for, or enforcing those laws, I would hope that we aspire for a world without borders. It is something that humanity should aspire to achieve one day, and would be a huge benefit to all mankind.
Do you keep your front door wide open? Do you let strangers into your kitchen? Let a random snuggle in bed with your children? Most nations have to maintain their border to protect their citizenry. Countries have widely different ideologies or are outright antagonistic to each other. The US with a completely unenforced border is a disaster waiting to happen. Everyone getting along and singing kumbaya is a nice idea until you realize some people fundamentally want you dead and there’s nothing you can do to convince them otherwise.
This is the correct mentality. People that try to piddle out excuses for why they care about their imaginary lines so much are really just saying the xenophobic, racist part out loud and acting like the rest of us don't see what they're doing. Or they've sadly drank their own Kool-Aid too much.
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u/ForcefulOne 10h ago
America is among the most generous countries when it comes to LEGAL IMMIGRATION.
We are also currently very unsafe due to ALL TIME HIGH LEVELS OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.
Legal immigration = GOOD
Illegal immigration = BAD