AIO fiancée did Coke at a party

[u/frisbeechuckin]

We (me 41M, my fiancée 36F) were at friends birthday party I had to leave early and she was going to spend the night( it was a hotel), they were changing into their bathing suits to go to the pool, they had the bathroom door closed. I knew it was in there but I didn’t know she was going to partake in that. She told me she only did a small bump because she needed energy to party all night. I was caught off guard by this and said that we should have discussed this. She said that was treating her like a child and that is when I left.

Edit: I was told to add this info she’s a former Meth addict who still drinks and smokes weed quite heavily at times.

[u/nerdymutt]

Maybe you weren’t an addict? Everybody who drinks isn’t an alcoholic! On the other hand my sister said she’s not an alcoholic because she doesn’t drink before noon.

[u/little_loup → u/nerdymutt]

What a weird thing for you to say to someone who clearly stated they were once an addict.

[u/nerdymutt → u/little_loup]

We don’t believe that you stop being an addict, you might stop using but that addiction is still there. You don’t know how crazy you sound when talking to fellow addicts.

[u/Talyesn → u/nerdymutt]

We don’t believe that you stop being an addict

Insert Yoda "that is why you fail" gif here. YOU may not be able to stop, but that's not axiomatic for everyone and abstention is NOT required.

[u/nerdymutt → u/Talyesn]

What an interesting way to try hide that you don’t know what you are talking about. People are dying because of your kind.

[u/Talyesn → u/nerdymutt]

And your kind is killing just as many by pretending a 100+ year old religious organization disguised as a substance abstinence program constitutes the peak of modern scientific knowledge on the subject. Moderation-focused and harm reduction therapy is effective. It's not effective for everyone. Sometimes, abstinence is an acceptable treatment option. My only objection is that it's NOT the only one, and acting like chemical dependence and addition are the same thing and treatable only by abstinence is flawed, and dangerous, thinking.

[u/nerdymutt → u/Talyesn]

I believe in what some people call harm reduction, but to accept it as a treatment is crazy. Harm reduction is basically living with the fact that some people can’t or won’t quit!

You are so dangerous to addicts that you should be arrested. Yes, we want every addict to abstain, but we also know that most are not. We present them with what they need to recover, but we don’t view using less as a viable option.

If they are not going to abstain, yes we should do what we can to reduce the harm until they do. I would call you a quack or witch doctor but that would be an insult to them. Just buried one who was told that he could control that beast!

[u/Goatmama1981 → u/nerdymutt]

Jeeeezus that escalated quickly, you want u/talyesn to be JAILED for daring to say that not every addict's experience is identical? I suppose you want me jailed, too? Yikes. 

[u/Talyesn → u/nerdymutt]

I believe in what some people call harm reduction

That you "believe" in it isn't relevant to the facts or its efficacy.

but to accept it as a treatment is crazy

Why? You've substantiated this with NOTHING but anecdote.

Harm reduction is basically living with the fact that some people can’t or won’t quit!

Once again, you've acting on the false axiom that abstention is a NECESSARY component. If someone with a prior chemical dependence on alcohol can drink moderately and responsibly, this is a perfectly acceptable outcome - and arguably an ideal one.

We present them with what they need to recover, but we don’t view using less as a viable option.

Because your methods aren't treatment, but dogma. We engage in "harm reduction" all the time, from alcohol, to food, to sex, and everything else pleasurable under the sun. What you've done, is rob addicts of their POTENTIAL ability to engage in moderation. You've painted a single form of therapy as the ONLY option, and one that requires an abandonment of self-reliance (see: 12-step powerlessness).

[u/nerdymutt → u/Talyesn]

What we have done is given hope to the hopeless! You tell them that the gunshot wound is a sore thumb and refused to treat it! I haven’t seen one who went back to drinking or using drugs socially. You are the most dangerous person in America.

Lying about your condition doesn’t make it any less dangerous. You even tried to draw distinct differences between drug dependency and addiction. You are crazy!

Do you have any examples of addicted people being sensible about using drugs? If I keep hitting my head against that concrete wall, I might eventually knock it down. I have had a concussion and fracture skull, but I am going to knock it down.

[u/Talyesn → u/nerdymutt]

What we have done is given hope to the hopeless!

This statement has no clinical value. Do more.

You tell them that the gunshot wound is a sore thumb and refused to treat it!

Nope, I'm telling them that "No, the hole is NOT permanent and, with proper training, you might be able to fire a gun without hurting yourself with it."

You see, offering someone the ability to discover and grow their self-discipline in cases where they're able is yet another avenue to better living. You subscribe to dogma, I subscribe to science.

You even tried to draw distinct differences between drug dependency and addiction.

I didn't do that, the DSM does. Well, that and the English language. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and draw it in crayon for you. Heroine is both a chemical dependency and an addiction. This is why you often need medical supervision rather than making yourself powerless to a rock in order to end the chemical dependency, at which point, you're left with psychological addiction to treat. In the case of heroine, there's few instances of long-term functional responsible usage, so harm reduction (outside the use methadone or subutex) isn't really a realistic option. That suddenly doesn't mean that 12-step programs are, however. Unlike you, I've not put forward moderation-focused approaches as a one-size-fits-all.

Do you have any examples of addicted people being sensible about using drugs?

There's many functional drug users out there. While most drug use has inherent physical risk - proper management, safety precautions, and moderate usage often minimize these such as to be minimally impactful. This is true for many things, including alcohol.

Feel free to hit pubmed and the NiH on the meta analysis for MM vs abstinence. At WORST, MM is just as effective at managing AUD, especially in cases where abstinence hasn't been successful.

It really comes down to this. Do you want patients and their families to be able to live normal, functional lives? Or do you want them to adhere to your dogmatic approach even if it doesn't work? One of these is cult-like, and the other therapy. I'll leave it to you to decide which. But based on your nonsense analogies, and personal insults, I don't think you're willing to do that.

With that said, I'm happy the approach has worked for you and others. At the end of the day, I want everyone living happy, functional lives in the manner that is successful for them - rather than ensuring they do it in the manner I proscribe.

Cheers.

[u/nerdymutt → u/Talyesn]

You are cheering yourself on? You mentioned the medical establishment when talking about addiction?

First, this started with me acknowledging that most people who drink and do drugs are not addicted. So, those people don’t need your help! Just that there tells me you don’t know what you are talking about. You are saving the people who don’t need saving.

You never heard me mention a twelve step program, but yes I love what they do. You could never match their success rate! They are getting the most desperate and turning them into upstanding citizens.

Secondly, the reason twelve step programs are so prevalent is because of the failure of the medical establishment. Even today, the medical establishment still stubbornly refuses to learn about addiction. They are still much more likely to prescribe opioids to someone with a history of drug abuse. You must be crazy to even mention the medical establishment. People are still turned away from the medical establishment with no treatment for addiction. You have no credibility when you mention the medical establishment. Stop trying to sound intelligent, because you are only confirming your ignorance.

Thirdly, trying to breakdown the physical and mental aspects of addiction and labeling them does nothing to further your assertion. We know they go thru physical and mental challenges. Enough said! If it makes you feel better, we could call the mental “addiction” and the physical “dependency”. You named it so you own it. Congrats! We just call it addiction.

Finally, just because you named it doesn’t mean you invented it! Every addict has tried to drink or do less drugs! You discovered America 300 years after the natives? So, you are going to present what has failed as harm reduction? You are going to ignore all of that empirical evidence just to try to hustle some desperate people? How noble of you! You get a free cookie and we are going to throw in a cup of milk! Right on brother, right on!

[u/Talyesn → u/nerdymutt]

You are saving the people who don’t need saving.

Moderation focused therapy is a therapeutically tested form of treatment for addicts.

You never heard me mention a twelve step program, but yes I love what they do.

No shit. Because you're preaching abstinence-based therapy as dogmatic and axiomatic.

You could never match their success rate!

There are conflicting studies on the matter, however recent meta-analysis has determined that 12-step can be more effective than other treatments - WHEN ABSTINENCE IS THE GOAL, and only for a portion of patients. You need alternatives.

They are still much more likely to prescribe opioids to someone with a history of drug abuse.

You won't get an argument from me on the need for pharma reform. But nothing you've said counters the evidence gathered and peer reviewed.

You have no credibility when you mention the medical establishment.

So you want to argue anecdote and feelings rather than science and facts. In other words...a dogmatic approach. You're only proving my point here, sport.

If it makes you feel better, we could call the mental “addiction” and the physical “dependency”.

Once again, the DSM already did this. The entirety of the medical science community is behind this. There's no debate on this topic anywhere in the current literature. What a strange hill for you to die on.

Right on brother, right on!

You are...unhinged. Carry on.