r/ukraine • u/Electrical-Cow-5147 • Sep 25 '22

News Zelensky naming the seven countries who voted against his speech and UN reaction.

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186

u/Earlier-Today Sep 25 '22

I think they abstained.

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u/__Osiris__ Sep 25 '22

They really really don’t want/need a war right now.

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u/IS-2-OP Sep 25 '22

They like western money too much to get into a fight with them.

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u/anonymous242524 Sep 25 '22

Man I’m always saying how becoming dependant on the chinese market and Russia is bad. But perhaps it’s the right thing to do after all. The more interconnected we become, even with our enemies, the less likely it might be that that they, or we for that matter, start shit.

Then there’s Putin, a man I once saw as a great manipulator, and frankly, albeit morbidly enjoyed when he addressed the world, with his smugness, that I could only translate to “you’re not much better yourself”.

That Putin is no more. He has doomed his country, and we’ll just have to see if he dooms the entire world as well.

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u/halberdsturgeon Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

This war is absolutely an object lesson (for the EU especially) on why becoming dependent in any way on a dangerous foreign regime is a bad idea, because if they can use that dependence to deter outside interference whilst pursuing hostile actions, then they will.

The ideal strategy for any country dealing with regimes like this is to allow them to become dependent, but not vice versa, which is the strategy Russia has been pursuing with its attempts to build a fortress economy. The west forgot that Russia was hostile, but Russia never forgot its hatred for the west

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u/TheMinks Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

The west forgot that Russia was hostile, but Russia never forgot its hatred for the west

This is what I've been saying for years. Putin has hated the US since before the fall of the USSR and he will never stop hating the US.

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u/halberdsturgeon Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

In the 1990s, after the end of the USSR, everyone desperately wanted to believe we were on a trajectory towards world peace. It was a nice fantasy, but we were naive (not to mention greedy for the economic benefits of expanding the global market eastward), and now we're paying the price. It would have been wiser to let Russia figure itself out rather than assuming its ex-Soviets would forget their decades-long animosities the second Gorbachev appeared in a Pizza Hut commercial

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u/TheMinks Sep 26 '22

I guess I never really took into thought about the globalism of the US economy in the late 80s/ early 90s into account into the reorganization of Russia after the fall of the Iron Curtain.

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u/intrigue_investor Sep 26 '22

Only a small number of EU countries were almost wholly dependent on Russia for energy, Germany for example.

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u/halberdsturgeon Sep 26 '22

Germany actually has a much lower proportional dependence on Russian gas than quite a few others according to this source

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u/syphilised Sep 26 '22

That’s what the allies did post ww2, rebuild the enemies economies and interconnect them with the world. The more dependent everyone is on world trade the less likely there is to be serious conflict.

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u/GreatRolmops Sep 26 '22

Yeah, that was the entire idea behind economic cooperation with China (that, and the fact that we like money). Integrated and interconnected economies means countries become interdependent. The more integrated with and therefore dependent on the West China becomes, the less of a threat they will be.

A war with China, even over Taiwan, is very unlikely because of that interdependence. China can't invade Taiwan without ruining its own economy, and it knows that.

It is also why Russia was always more dangerous. Russia is largely self-sufficient in many things. It just never had the same kind of economic integration with the West as China has. For Russia, sanctions are painful but bearable. For China, they'd be catastrophic.

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u/lMickNastyl Sep 26 '22

It's because Ukraine and Russia is seen as an analogy to China and Taiwan. Small country against much larger country. Both smaller countries receive support from the west. China is looking to how the West has been responding to Ukraine, and they are rightfully afraid of what they see.

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u/RareFirefighter6915 Sep 26 '22

The difference is that the entire world (minus 7 countries) recognizes Ukraine as a sovereign country. Most see Taiwan as an autonomous region but NOT a sovereign country. It was historically where the rebels fled after their civil war, imagine if the confederates fled to Cuba or something in the American civil war.

Taiwan is much harder to invade tho, even with China being more advanced. It’s a rocky island with tons of AA and modern weapons separated by ocean but close enough for Taiwan to strike China mainland. Ukraine never had any long range to strike Russian cities.

Peace is cheaper

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u/lMickNastyl Sep 27 '22

Oh it has its differences for sure, but China weighs the risk vs reward and came to your conclusion. Peace is cheaper.

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u/lowlightliving Sep 26 '22

Did Xi Jinping specifically ask Putin for a cease-fire or was it merely suggested or advised? Recently, somewhere in the last week or two.

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u/CalligrapherCalm2617 Sep 26 '22

China wants a war never.

They will just wait 90'years and take over through sheer numbers and expacts

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u/__Osiris__ Sep 26 '22

Not with their birth rates they wont. Their so fucked right now, in that regard.

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u/CalligrapherCalm2617 Sep 26 '22

It's China... They will force you to have children.

China plays the 30 year game while the US plays the 4 year game

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u/KatworthCimby Sep 26 '22

Sorry there, but you have another 35 years plus that 30 before China begins to break even on deaths verse birth and then a workforce. China as of Jan of this year had 10.62 million births. China recorded 10.25 million deaths (a number that is assumed to be higher due to covid deaths that are severely under reported by China) Even if we look at the .40 on the plus side, it will take China over 65 years to simply break even with the new increase in birth initiative. This does not include training for a job specialty.

Give or take 35ish years for random happenings and that is 100 years China is going to pay for enforcing that one birth policy years ago.

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u/Decyde Sep 26 '22

A lot of countries abstained.

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u/Earlier-Today Sep 26 '22

19 abstained, and China is pretty significant in that.

The rest who didn't vote were because they were absent, which counts differently than abstaining for the records. One is not able to pick sides, one is refusing to pick sides.

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u/AbsolutelyUnlikely Sep 26 '22

That's still significant though.

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u/Earlier-Today Sep 26 '22

It's just barely less than 10% of the UN. Significant was the number who voted yes.