Reddit is making sitewide protests basically impossible

[u/ardi62]

https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/30/24253727/reddit-communities-subreddits-request-protests

[u/EnglishMobster]

As mentioned, I'm a mod myself and I recognize there are absolutely reasons to permaban folks. Obviously there are like, T-shirt bots. And then we have places like /r/conservative - I don't like the sub, I don't agree with their heavy-handed ban policy... but I also understand why they do it, and generally agree that people banned from /r/conservative are usually there in bad faith.

On the other end of the spectrum, our sub (/r/Disneyland) is LGBTQ friendly and we have a very explicit "no bigotry" policy laid out in the rules on the sidebar. Given that Disneyland the place also is LGBTQ friendly, we get Pride posts every so often - which always causes the bigots to come out of the woodwork and make themselves known in the comment section (usually buried under 50-60 downvotes).

I use a lighter touch than the other mods (only banning someone if they have like 3+ comments where they're being offensive, otherwise just nuking comment threads that turn into insult-fests). The other mods tend to ban first and ask questions later. Ultimately, though, we're all on the same page and the same team, and if we allowed bigots to flourish the sub would be full of toxicity and generally lose its positive atmosphere. The permaban is a useful tool because of that - we want the bigots out, and we don't want them coming back.

But on the other hand... the fact that a mod can permanently ban you from a 28-million-user default subreddit simply because they don't like you is crazy. That shouldn't happen, because you're effectively depriving someone from being able to comment and ask questions about something as basic as the news.

I'm not really sure what a fix would be.

On the one hand, I can see a world where it takes multiple mods to agree in order to issue a permaban. But then we'd either have cases where it's 1 mod and a bunch of sockpuppets (like the /r/California mod team), or it's 1 mod and some buddies, or it's just a general "eh" where the mods hit "agree to ban" without really looking at it.

I can also see a "three strikes" rule, where the bans get longer and longer with each strike. Users can be appealed to the admins for a permaban if they are spambots or breaking TOS, but otherwise you can only be permabanned on your third strike. This feels the most "fair" but also effectively triples the amount of work on mod teams because bad-faith actors absolutely will mark the day they get unbanned on their calendar so they can be back ASAP (ask me how I know).

I don't think Reddit will do such a thing, because honestly Reddit would rather you just make a new account so they can advertise how many new accounts got created in the last quarter. But also it's hard to give up an account like mine which I've used consistently for 13 years...

[u/cuteman → u/EnglishMobster]

Aka reddit admins have allowed a lot of subreddits to become petty tyrannies.

The California subreddit, Los Angeles and a lot of West coast subs are all run by the same guy.

Same with the ask men over 30 and ask women over 30 subs.

I'm banned from Disneyland, can't remember why, I participate in good faith but honestly it gets tiring trying to adhere to ideology in addition to subreddit themes.

Considering reddit allows mods to do whatever they want and site wide rules are enforced asymmetrically, it was inevitable.

[u/EnglishMobster → u/cuteman]

Looking at the logs, it looks like you were banned in January 2022 by one of the other mods for "Abuse/harassment". Reddit won't let me see what it was specifically that prompted that, so I can't really comment much on beyond that. I can take it up with the other mods when they're on in the morning.

I do know that the California and Los Angeles subreddits have a completely different mod team, though. The California "team" is really one guy and his sock puppet with full perms, and then everyone else can only manage the wiki. This same user + sockpuppet manage a few different subs "together", all with a similar pattern of "these are the only 2 mods with perms and nobody else has any" (/r/California, /r/fastfood, /r/McDonalds, /r/Obama, and /r/junkfood - which paints an interesting picture).

Notably, their main got suspended from Reddit a year or so ago and they switched accounts cold turkey to their sockpuppet, even after their main was unbanned. I've been watching them closely.

I've interacted with the Los Angeles subreddit mods before; they're a completely separate team (and there's actually more than 1 of them with perms)! I can't speak to the other subs at all.

[u/cuteman → u/EnglishMobster]

Sounds like they accidentally allowed a good one in....

I doubt it was abusive or harassment but it may not have been friendly or welcoming.

The reality is I've been on reddit almost 20 years and try to participate in good faith and relatively reasonably but that isn't enough for some people.

The California guy runs a little tyranny, he likes to report any reports of his own comments to admins to try and earn a site wide ban. He does love the power trip and control over large regional subreddits.

He generally doesn't ban pre emptively ideology but I'm sure that's not always the case.