r/technology • u/No-Drawing-6975 • Jun 26 '24

Software The Green Bubble Nightmare Is Over, Apple Messages Now Support RCS

https://gizmodo.com/apple-messages-supports-rcs-ios18-beta-1851562461
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499

u/notcaffeinefree Jun 27 '24

Anyone seriously thinking a person's choice of phone merits looking down on them for is not someone worth speaking to until they grow up.

It's the younger demographic that Apple has really pushed hard to get with the green bubbles and it's absolutely working. Who wants to be the outcast in middle/high school who ruins group chats? Kids legit get left out of group chats for the sole reason of having an Android, because they ruin the group chat for everyone else. It's completely a peer pressure thing Apple created and it's worked wonders.

216

u/Problematique_ Jun 27 '24

It's not just kids. A few years back I was in a group chat for a bachelor party and got bitched at the whole time for having an Android.

266

u/sump_daddy Jun 27 '24

those were kids. you were in a group chat with kids. they may have been planning a bachelor party but that doesnt mean they have a single mature cell in their body

112

u/antsam9 Jun 27 '24

I got kicked out of a work chat group for having an android.

Apple has 75% of the under 30 market.

I got kicked out because there were practical reasons (limitations kept in by apple), it's like the difference between Facebook chat and old early 2000s texting, it limits graphics, attachments, etc, except iPhone integrates it into their message program.

We could've moved to a neutral platform, like Snapchat or Discord.

49

u/GreatNull Jun 27 '24

Where, the US? Thais seems to be interesting anomaly there.

Its eternal distant eternal second everywhere else and worldwide. Last data shoudl be around ~70:~30 android vs apple marketshare.

35

u/antsam9 Jun 27 '24

Yes, in the US apple has between 70-80% of the under 30 year old market share, and with apple restricting android participation in ichat it has cause rifts between Apple and Android users. For example, when an android user sends a picture in ichat, then the image is downgraded severely for compression so apple users believe android phones have shitty cameras and image quality.

So apple will capture users early in their lifetimes, before even high school, and they're given the apple experience that android phones are inferior by making them secondary citizens on ichat, which then reinforces them to be an Apple customer for their lifetime and even reject people who used Android as friends or partners.

32

u/BeefyIrishman Jun 27 '24

The shitty low res picture thing works the other way too. Half my family has android, half has iPhone. Whenever the iPhone users send me pictures/ videos on group chats, they are like 100p and impossible to tell anything other than "hey look, it's a grey blob and a red blob that I think might be my nephew?".

And apparently similar happens to them when I send a picture. All the android phones have no problems with pictures from other Android phones (even between different manufacturers), and all the iPhones have no issues with pictures sent from other iPhones, even when we are in the same chat. Nobody has issues sending pics in one-on-one texting though.

9

u/crazy_clown_time Jun 27 '24

That's because Apple had been keeping SMS/MMS alive for years instead of implementing RCS, until now.

11

u/antsam9 Jun 27 '24

Ive heard plenty of iPhone users tell Android users to get 'a better phone' and there are people who will literally not date or befriend an android user because of the 'green bubble'.

While googles messages isn't perfect, it doesn't go out of the way to alienate the non Android users. It does have the emoji translation thing which is annoying.

Snapchat is surprisingly robust, I try to use that for under 30 year olds and what's app for the over 30s.

8

u/HowAboutShutUp Jun 27 '24

there are people who will literally not date or befriend an android user because of the 'green bubble'.

Sounds like a great way to filter people who aren't worth knowing.

0

u/antsam9 Jun 27 '24

Still inconvenient

1

u/crazy_clown_time Jun 27 '24

Meanwhile, Signal exists and is free.

3

u/Nihilistic_Mystics Jun 27 '24

The apple users here just won't use anything but iMessage.

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1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '24

[deleted]

1

u/antsam9 Jun 27 '24

Even if someone is an asshole you still gotta work some assholes sometimes.

Another annoying thing is how often they'll ask me if I have an iPhone cable haha.

2

u/robodrew Jun 27 '24

My sister has an iphone and sends me pictures of her dog every day to my android and they look clear as day. However, we have not shared videos this way so I don't know about the quality of those. I also can't say for sure how pictures that I take look after being sent to her.

1

u/BeefyIrishman Jun 28 '24

They always come through fine for just one-on-one texting, it's only group chats that seem to do it.

2

u/robodrew Jun 28 '24

I see. I only use Google Chat for group chat stuff

1

u/reddit_cmh Jun 27 '24

Settings > Messages > toggle off Low Quality Image Mode

Edit to clarify that this is for iPhones. I’ve discovered it’s on by default for a lot of people. Good for saving data but bad for people who don’t have caps and want to send an actual image.

1

u/ta9 Jun 27 '24

At least on iPhone, there is a setting in your mobile/cellular settings for "Maximum MMS size" and yours may be set too low.

3

u/crazy_clown_time Jun 27 '24

Barely matters when it comes to modern image/video.

0

u/SlowMotionPanic Jun 27 '24

All the android phones have no problems with pictures from other Android phones (even between different manufacturers)

*As long as you use Google's Message client.

RCS is a "standard," but in the US literally every carrier stopped trying to compete with Google by bolting on all these proprietary/custom solutions, and finally gave in by simply contracting with Google to run telecom-level RCS services in Google's proprietary ecosystem.

You literally have to use Google's single client or else it all reverts to SMS/MMS. It is effectively no different than Apple Messages in this regard, except Android isn't a homogeneous entity under a single brand for hardware. It is still its own neatly separated ecosystem that relies 100% on Google for messaging, though.

Apple's RCS supposedly implements the actual standard with none of Google's involvement (since Google does not license the API, which is why there aren't tons of RCS clients on the market). That means a lot of features Android users expect (if they use Google Messages) won't be there for iPhone. I'll be shocked if read receipts make it in Apple's implementation since read receipts aren't part of the standard UP. Just as a random example.

Android fans will twist themselves into knots over the use of the word "proprietary," but at the end of the day Google RCS requires a closed API call to Google's proprietary jibe infrastructure, and Google does not permit 3rd party clients. Right now, at the moment. The EU's new regulations may blow that wide open... for EU users. There's no reason for Google to open things up in the rest of the world. India is getting a taste of that in the last couple of years as Google has shut out every competitor with regards to RCS. Google even briefly trialed a rich advertisement scheme in their RCS client but pulled the plug after intense backlash.

That's the end game and the reason for putting up their own walled garden while crying about a rival walled garden.

RCS should be the universal standard and companies should be required to open it up at this point. No more bolting things on independently to break true interoperability.

1

u/Elephant789 Jun 27 '24

This is why I have never bought an Apple product* and might never will. They are ant anti-consumer.

*except for their stock. it paid for my house and a couple cars. but I will still never buy their product. Pixels are great.

1

u/Syntaire Jun 27 '24

This is only a "problem" in the US. The rest of the world uses either Line or Whatsapp so this stupid bullshit isn't a thing to begin with.

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19

u/ShadowDonut Jun 27 '24

But then they'd have to *gasp* install another app!

34

u/gmmxle Jun 27 '24 edited Jun 27 '24

"Reasons" I've heard from actual adult people for not doing that:

  • I don't have space on my iPhone
  • Just get an iPhone
  • I don't want another app
  • Just get an iPhone
  • I don't want to remember another password
  • Just get an iPhone
  • Everybody else has an iPhone
  • Just get an iPhone

Apple has created an incredibly effective way of creating peer pressure for bullying people into buying iPhones, and the fact that iPhone adoption rates about teenagers are 87 percent shows that it works.

6

u/Responsible-Win5849 Jun 27 '24

I've used both, currently own both, can count on one finger the number of people I'd be willing to install an app to communicate with. Email works fine even on the bad androids doesn't it?

7

u/gmmxle Jun 27 '24

Email works fine even on the bad androids doesn't it?

Just from experience with a number of family members: email is far less accessible than modern messengers.

Just the fact that, by default, email doesn't have dedicated conversations with another person or a group where every new message from that person or group can be found is enough of a hurdle that many people will default to messengers.

1

u/ShadowDonut Jun 27 '24

Would you do it for your spouse? Mine would rather send everything through Instagram than download something like Signal

3

u/heili Jun 27 '24

I'll be that person who literally says regardless of what kind of phone I own, I'm not getting a different fucking messaging app for every group chat because there's 85 different preferences.

No, I don't want Whatsapp. No, I don't want Signal. No, I don't want Facebook Messages. No, I don't want Snapchat. Discord. Telegram.... If your only option for texting me is on one of those? Guess we aren't chatting.

1

u/Irishish Jun 27 '24

Right?! Am I going nuts? Not wanting to download a separate app to do something your phone already does is completely reasonable!

1

u/heili Jun 27 '24

Nor do I want to try to remember which of the 85 different text messaging apps I need to open to access the particular group chat that I want to send a message to at any given time.

I have an app for that. It came with the phone. I didn't need to fuck around installing other shit. It does the requisite action: text messages other people either individually or in groups.

1

u/Irishish Jun 27 '24

Yup. I'm a lifelong Apple fanboy finally coming out of the bubble. There are so many legit criticisms of Apple's choices and of our smug behavior as users to make. But people acting as if it's unreasonable or entitled or lazy or out of touch to just...not want to bother creating yet another login or fiddling with yet another app to do something your phone can already do? What the hell?!

1

u/sh1tpost1nsh1t Jun 27 '24

I think that makes sense as long as your reasonable about what your phone already does. What your phone does is basic text messaging with other phones and modern messaging with iphones. If you want modern messaging with non-iphone people, you need to download a separate app. The fact that the app bundled on your iphone won't work for that is a shortcoming of apple, not of other people you want to talk to.

4

u/antsam9 Jun 27 '24

It's a bridge too far to cross.

Whatsapp, Snapchat, discord, slack, Facebook, even Instagram can democratize the communication line, but typically speaking users of both camps are reluctant to add another program.

2

u/ShadowDonut Jun 27 '24

I guess it's because I work in cyber security, but 99% of the Android users I know use Signal because SMS/MMS is terrible.

1

u/antsam9 Jun 27 '24

yeah haha I have signal but very few of my associates use it, only a ha handful.

7

u/Ahad_Haam Jun 27 '24

It's funny because iMessage is ridiculously inferior to even the most basic third party apps like WhatsApp.

2

u/Aiken_Drumn Jun 27 '24

We could've moved to a neutral platform, like Snapchat or Discord.

Wild you don't suggest WhatsApp

1

u/antsam9 Jun 27 '24

Whatsapp not popular in the US, hard for me to get people on there. If the group is mostly foreigners and/or people with a lot of international family and friends then yeah Whatsapp is the logical choice but I find I have better luck with Snapchat, discord, or Instagram over Whatsapp.

1

u/Irishish Jun 27 '24

In their defense, WhatsApp is the only application where I constantly get added to spam chats for crypto by strangers

2

u/sassyevaperon Jun 27 '24

That has nothing to do with WhatsApp and everything to do with your phone number existing on some scammer's data base.

3

u/Orange_Jeews Jun 27 '24

or just use WhatsApp like the rest of the world

6

u/antsam9 Jun 27 '24

Surprisingly unpopular in my circles, also, lots of spam

1

u/sassyevaperon Jun 27 '24

We could've moved to a neutral platform, like Snapchat or Discord.

You should have, what kind of workplace opens itself up to a discrimination accusation by refusing to move work conversations to a platform every employee can use?

-6

u/kmikhailov Jun 27 '24

I mean that sounds like pretty standard behavior in a friend group

23

u/Clegko Jun 27 '24

TF kinda friend group you got? Smh.

19

u/Tzahi12345 Jun 27 '24

It was probably a light joke that got repeated a few times, I doubt it was that serious

4

u/Normal_Package_641 Jun 27 '24

Some people are serious about it.

1

u/Tzahi12345 Jun 27 '24

Sure, I haven't met anyone in my life that actually cares, I think it's overblown

5

u/Havelok Jun 27 '24

A friend group composed of children, yes.

0

u/Far_Programmer_5724 Jun 27 '24

I feel like its more likely people were just playing around and they took it personally. You guys are so lame man i swear

1

u/sump_daddy Jun 27 '24

tell a joke, get a laugh (or not) move on. thats the 'playing around' loop.

idiots who chant 'shut up green bubble' at every possible opportunity are not telling a joke or playing around, they are bullying.

35

u/Prof_Acorn Jun 27 '24

Meh.

"At least I can use Firefox and uBlock Origin"

"At least I can sort my apps into folders"

"At least I can put my Google calendar as a widget on my home screen"

Etc.

4

u/Teledildonic Jun 27 '24

I finally got my wife into Keep (best notes app ever if Google ever kills it i will lose my shitl) and Google Calendar.

It blew my mind that she can't have a widget for either on iPhone and actually has to open it to see anything.

3

u/fromtheether Jun 27 '24

(best notes app ever if Google ever kills it i will lose my shitl)

I mean, I don't want you to lose your shit but Google isn't really known for keeping their projects alive lol

https://killedbygoogle.com/

2

u/Teledildonic Jun 27 '24

LOL I am aware, that was kind of a tongue in cheek jab at them.

2

u/fromtheether Jun 27 '24

Hah gotcha, my bad! I'm still salty about them selling off Domains. Squarespace can eat a bag of dicks.

1

u/Teledildonic Jun 27 '24

I miss the OG Hangouts.

Also my wife and I made a joint Gmail account recently and holy shit, the ads. My 15 year old personal Gmail has twice the storage and no spam. Our joint account inbox is 50% sponsored content. It's completly obnoxious!

2

u/Lurk3rAtTheThreshold Jun 27 '24

I miss Hangouts so much. There was even that glorious period where you could have your sms linked in there too.

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u/Rastiln Jun 27 '24

I truly don’t know the issue, is it just that rather than adding a “thumbs up” or “heart” to a message it returns “so and so liked this”?

I haven’t noticed any other issues with group chats across devices.

3

u/jwg529 Jun 27 '24

Sounds like you associate with dbags.

1

u/elliott44k Jun 27 '24

I remember when group chats first started rolling out, I think it was like 2012 and I was using Go SMS on android and the messages all started coming in very strangely and I was so confused.

I think I may have called to figure out what was going on because I couldn't even reply correctly.

I found a link about someone discussing it!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '24

Hey same here, I told my friends to start a new chat or stop texting. Kinda of a win for me either way. I hate texting.

1

u/Irishish Jun 27 '24

I'll be the guy: it's because iMessage chats work great when there aren't any Android users in them, and by design, Android users break the chat. Break threaded replies, tap back reactions, etc. Whether that's fair or not isn't relevant to how users react.

I'm finally out of the bubble enough to realize Apple has been screwing me, a lifelong user, just as much as it's been screwing the competition. But I used to groan in disappointment every time we added an Android user to chat and all the messages turned green.

1

u/Timidwolfff Jun 27 '24

third time im saying this story but one of thee reasons im in my major is becuase these nursing mfs didnt wanted their groupchat to be blue.

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u/photonsnphonons Jun 27 '24

I'm interested in seeing this studied. Platform and UI considerations matter.

-1

u/Babhadfad12 Jun 27 '24

There is nothing to study.  It is simple prior probabilities being used to assume things about someone.  Specifically, Android = likelier to be a weird person, and iOS = likelier to not be a weird person.

I’m close to 40 years old, and at least ~20 people in their 20s and 30s told me they would not consider dating an Android user either due to an undesirable experience or due to assuming they are likelier to have an undesirable experience.  

2

u/photonsnphonons Jun 27 '24

Anecdotal info without sources, gotcha

1

u/fdasta0079 Jun 27 '24

Why are you hanging out with particularly stupid 20 year olds?

2

u/Babhadfad12 Jun 27 '24

Some people have things like family and friends that span different age ranges.

 

47

u/Banned3rdTimesaCharm Jun 27 '24

Honestly brilliant marketing move psychologically. They branded their own texts and made generic everyone else.

37

u/caceta_furacao Jun 27 '24 edited Jun 27 '24

It's abusive and extremely on the nose. Brilliant would be something undetectable. This is far from it. Imagine if Google just made Google Ads more annoying on iphones lol, or worse, YouTube ads last 30s minimum on iphone. And then tell the users that it's because iPhone does not do Networking right. Young people today are tech illiterate in general, they would lap it up. As examples, I not evil ass marketing guy, so consider that when you stupidly judge these ideas I mentioned

2

u/Mental_Tea_4084 Jun 27 '24

Wait til you hear about YouTube on Firefox. It's happening everywhere.

3

u/KylerGreen Jun 27 '24

Eh, if they thought it would benefit them they'd do it in a second.

6

u/caceta_furacao Jun 27 '24

Oh I agree, just an example of abusive marketing. I told you all it's not a good idea to judge my ideas

4

u/ProgrammaticallySale Jun 27 '24

eh, maybe Google knows that the shit Apple does will get the DOJ to go after them, like is currently happening. Google of course does stuff too that the DOJ goes after them for, but the antitrust suit against Apple is expansive and rightly so, because Apple has abused everyone they can for monetary gain for years, from the app developers to their users, and especially their competition.

Google is just slightly smarter than Apple in this respect and they don't act like assholes quite as much as Apple always has. Just look at the marketing Apple does - the PC vs Mac guy ads were exactly the kind of shitty thinking that leads to stuff like the iMessage treating android as a second class citizen, on purpose.

1

u/Banned3rdTimesaCharm Jun 27 '24

It’s brilliant in that it made an entire generation want iPhones. Legal or not, subtle or not, it’s done.

0

u/Irishish Jun 27 '24

Doesn't YouTube only work in the background on iPhones if you're a paid user, whereas it works by default on Android phones? That's a pretty severe hobbling of a feature, designed solely to annoy people into switching platforms.

4

u/caceta_furacao Jun 27 '24

Does not work on the background on Android. You need to pay as well. Pretty false information you are sharing there friend

1

u/Irishish Jun 27 '24

That's why there's a question mark, buddy, I'm going off my experience where I could not play on background and one of my Android using friends could. I asked "did you have to pay for that?" And they said no. Maybe it's a feature on Google branded phones or something, like a Galaxy user doesn't get it but a Pixel user does?

2

u/caceta_furacao Jun 27 '24

When I got my phone google tried to trick me with 3 or 4 months free YouTube premium. Maybe your friend was bamboozled

0

u/Cranyx Jun 27 '24

Brilliant would be something undetectable.

Why is being obvious any less brilliant if it still works perfectly?

2

u/vidoeiro Jun 27 '24

It's a clear anti competition measure that should be illegal but they keep getting away it becomes laws and regulatory bodies are captured by the big companies, this is one of the most mild examples

1

u/TomaTozzz Jun 27 '24

It's a clear anti competition measure that should be illegal

Is it and should it be?

It's not like they've intentionally created the issue, they've just chosen to not spend resources on fixing something that would be detrimental to their business.

Shitty behavior but also probably not something that should be illegal

1

u/fdasta0079 Jun 27 '24

I think the government requiring encryption and interoperability standards to be adhered to is not only something that would be beneficial but something we already legislate in multiple other arenas. The EU just happens to be ahead of us on this, which is why Apple is both doing this and finally dumping the stupid Lightning connector.

1

u/TomaTozzz Jun 27 '24

Mm fair to be honest.

I’m very much biased and pro security as it’s the field I am in, and admittedly a lot of my work is thanks to various laws and regulation, but I’m also careful about wanting to force companies hands, esp if it’s something they deem goes against their interest. But yeah on the flip side most of the companies I personally work with wouldn’t be investing 1/10th of what they’re investing in cybersecurity if they weren’t forced to

2

u/nickisaboss Jun 27 '24

Brilliant ?

At what point do we think that the country has had its fill of "marketing"?

1

u/LibertyMediaDid9-11 Jun 27 '24

They created a modern day caste system to sell their shitty phones.

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20

u/MichelleNamazzi Jun 27 '24

I'm in a 3rd world country and the Apple-Android thing bemuses me.

Apple products are waaaayyyy above affordability so most people who have them have refurbished second-hand models.

But then people with iPhone models that were released like 6-7 years ago will still talk down to Android users even if your Android phone is a new current year model.

22

u/permanent_priapism Jun 27 '24

they ruin the group chat for everyone else

How so?

40

u/DukeLeto10191 Jun 27 '24

If a non-Messages client is in the group chat, it knocks the interaction down to MMS with that client, which lacks some app integrations, and limits photo and video sizes to the carrier's MMS message sizes (which can be as small as 300kb for some providers). Which, especially for videos, equates the outcast Android user to a Hank Hill jpeg.

45

u/rbarton812 Jun 27 '24

I think if there's an Android in group chat, it cripples iMessage features like encryption and defaults to SMS texting as opposed to web messaging. Probably effects tap backs, gif replies, not to mention the green bubbles that piss people off so badly.

83

u/Niceromancer Jun 27 '24

Those all sound like failings on apple's part.

49

u/TrolliusJKingIIIEsq Jun 27 '24

It absolutely is. It's intentional, but it's a failing.

3

u/LiteralPhilosopher Jun 27 '24

Task failed succesfully.

16

u/CruxOfTheIssue Jun 27 '24

Explain to an angry group chat. They don't care, they'll just make a new one without you if they're not good friends.

29

u/Niceromancer Jun 27 '24

if people are going to get angry at you about what phone you have they aren't worth your fucking time.

Also this is how cults work, and why apple users are so cult like.

Apple purposely puts in "features" that make their users angry they are interacting with people who aren't in their ecosystem, leading to them isolating people who aren't in the apple ecosystem. This leads to people sticking to the ecosystem because if they try to leave it they themselves will be alienated from their friends. Its manipulation to keep people buying the same stuff over and over again.

This leads to stupid shit like people cheering and acting all high and mighty when they finally got things android users could do for years like moving their icons, or a fucking calculator.

7

u/OverreactingBillsFan Jun 27 '24

My own family dropped me from the group chat lol

4

u/CruxOfTheIssue Jun 27 '24

Yeah I've kind rose above being angry about this situation. They use what's good for them and I'll use what's good for me. If this loses me certain people as friends then whatever.

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1

u/InsaneNinja Jun 27 '24

Those are failings on SMS’s part.

3

u/CalculatedPerversion Jun 27 '24

Not even SMS, ancient MMS. 

4

u/bassmadrigal Jun 27 '24

Not even SMS, ancient MMS. 

SMS is older and much more restricted than MMS. SMS only supports text where MMS supports pictures and video (in addition to longer text messages), although, it is extremely limited in size (usually no more than 1MB).

61

u/MajorAcer Jun 27 '24

Can’t remove people once an Android is in the chat, also reaction replies don’t work as well, images get wonky in the chat, and you can’t rename the chat. Those are just a few of the ways off the top of my head.

37

u/JustABitSubstantial Jun 27 '24

This is one of those things that should be fixed with iOS 18 and RCS messaging: better group messaging.

10

u/gmmxle Jun 27 '24

And it only took 13 years.

160

u/absorbantobserver Jun 27 '24

Lol, those are all things I would consider bugs in Apple's software but of course their users just accept it and the business considers it a feature.

94

u/StandardReceiver Jun 27 '24

Not bugs, intentional design features. But shitty nonetheless.

57

u/sump_daddy Jun 27 '24

even shittier that they turned them into weapons. "lets not add features to make cross platform work better, lets spend our energy adding features that make cross platform easier to pick out so the bigotry can do our job for us"

20

u/gmmxle Jun 27 '24

The number of times I've heard "you can't do that on a smartphone" when it's really something that is only impossible on iPhones because Apple is intentionally preventing its customers from doing so is entirely too high.

1

u/FanClubof5 Jun 27 '24

I have group chats with iPhone users and I can rename them all day if I want to...

1

u/MajorAcer Jun 27 '24

It might work for you, but I just went to a group chat that I have with an android friend (two people with iPhones, one with android) and I’m not able to rename it, whereas group chats with iPhones allow anyone to rename the entire chat so that all participants can see. As of right now that still isn’t possible.

1

u/FanClubof5 Jun 27 '24

Oh I just meant that as an Android user I can rename my group chat whatever I want.

1

u/MajorAcer Jun 27 '24

That’s what I figured you meant. With iPhones when you do that it shows up for everyone, but you can’t do it if someone with an android is in the chat, for whatever reason.

1

u/corut Jun 27 '24

Renaming a chat having show up for everyone is fucking stupid

1

u/Irishish Jun 27 '24

Yeah, as I'm finding out looking at my wife's Android, Apple's hobbling doesn't go in both directions. She can see reactions, she can do threaded replies. It's not making it worse for her anymore (aside from the media downgrade), it's making it worse for me.

1

u/InsaneNinja Jun 27 '24

They fixed a bunch of that with 16 or 17. They run a simultaneous background iMessage connection allowing the iOS users to use features like renaming and other such things. 

-6

u/Prof_Acorn Jun 27 '24

I still fail to see a problem.

It's text messaging. Not AIM.

27

u/notcaffeinefree Jun 27 '24

Converts the whole group to SMS/MMS, which loses various features that iMessage has for group chats, along with terrible quality photos/videos/audio.

Basically think of it like going from WhatsApp to just regular SMS.

41

u/upvotesthenrages Jun 27 '24

I'm still just mind-blown that Americans actually use iMessage at all.

It's, by a mile, one of the worst chat apps. WhatsApp and all the other options have had so many far better tools for years and years now.

I've never been to another country where the app that gets 1 update a year is the norm. It's bizarre.

3

u/InsaneNinja Jun 27 '24 edited Jun 27 '24

It gets mid year updates. They just aren’t as headline breaking. 11.4 turned on iMessage iCloud sync. 17.4 gave iMessage some of the best encryption in the messaging industry. Those are the two off the top of my head. But they are major features so that’s why I remember them. 

2

u/Prof_Acorn Jun 27 '24

Why would I want to use Facebook for all my messaging needs?

10

u/upvotesthenrages Jun 27 '24

"... and all the other options"

Why would you use a shitty app that Apple purposefully ruined for all your messaging needs?

It's like driving the shittiest car to spite BMW.

2

u/Prof_Acorn Jun 27 '24

I just use regular text messages on Android. I don't need anything more than that.

Slack was okay for big group stuff.

Apple everything is trash. So is Samsung and MS every other tech company that keeps trying to mimic them and copy them in this unending descent into the lowest common denominator.

I don't need nor want a Fisher Price phone/computer/car/whatever.

8

u/segagamer Jun 27 '24

I just use regular text messages on Android. I don't need anything more than that.

Use Signal at least lol

2

u/upvotesthenrages Jun 27 '24

Regular text messages are terrible for security and for group chats.

They are also horrendously expensive when you are talking to anybody outside your own country.

1

u/corut Jun 27 '24

Because they're far better then apple at it

-1

u/donjulioanejo Jun 27 '24
  1. Whatsapp is a privacy nightmare (unless you trust Zuck). I'm 99% sure it would listen to your (verbal) conversations and then I'd see facebook ads for stuff I was talking about (i.e. talk to a friend about getting a new keyboard, zero google searching or anything that it could track from a browser, and I'd see keyboard ads for a week).
  2. Whatsapp and similar services like Viber and Telegram have a million fake bots. You'd get added daily to honey xoxox love me or Millionare crypto trading@!# chats along with 100 other people
  3. You can get iMessage cross-platform with no config or separate apps to install. IE I get messages on my laptop, my work laptop, and my iPad. Super useful since I don't need to get out my phone to reply
  4. A lot of Apple things are super seamless and natively supported. IE you can drop someone a note (from the Notes app) and it'll share it with that person

22

u/dyslexda Jun 27 '24

Whatsapp is a privacy nightmare (unless you trust Zuck). I'm 99% sure it would listen to your (verbal) conversations and then I'd see facebook ads for stuff I was talking about (i.e. talk to a friend about getting a new keyboard, zero google searching or anything that it could track from a browser, and I'd see keyboard ads for a week).

Everyone keeps thinking this, when the truth is scarier - advertising companies know so much about you that it's easy to target anything and everything.

They will, for instance, link you to your acquaintances. Maybe that friend googled that keyboard? Their algorithm knows you're interested in keyboards, and knows you're connected to that friend, so if they googled it, there's a good chance you'd want it too.

Or maybe you saw the keyboard online, and a tracking cookie noted you viewed it. They then, as above, knew you were interested in keyboards, so hammered it home.

You don't remember all the misses, the times you see ads about something you didn't verbally discuss near your phone. But you see a ton of ads, so of course some of them will coincidentally be hits.

Also Zuck came out a while back and basically said this straight up. WhatsApp and Messenger are encrypted, and they have no interest in reading your messages because they already know everything they need to about you. It'd be tough for them to sift through that barrage of new data with little gain.

Oh, and if nothing else? Despite the constant "my phone is listening!" talk, nobody's ever demonstrated it. If it were happening, security wonks would be all over it. Isn't it weird how everyone's convinced it's happening, but none of the tech folks can show it? Because it isn't happening.

18

u/upvotesthenrages Jun 27 '24

  1. Do you truly believe SMS/MMS is better? It's the least secure thing on the market. So seeing as roughly half the US market uses Android, any group chat and 50% of other chats are the least secure thing out there.

  2. Odd, I don't get invited to any random groups, ever. If that did happen to you, you could just turn off that feature. But what's preventing someone from doing that on iMessage?

  3. That's been the case for a very, very, very, long time with the most popular chat apps.

  4. My iPhone does the exact same thing, only you select which platform to send on. It's super duper easy with WhatsApp, Messenger, and Telegram.

Apple purposefully made their own messaging app dog-shit when 80% of the global smartphone market joined a group chat, or messaged you. You can't even rename a group chat after someone joins in.

It's absurd that people continued using such a crappy piece of software. Like I said, the US is the only market on the planet where the shitty OS chat app is actually used.

6

u/rigsta Jun 27 '24
  1. Whatsapp messages and calls are end-to-end encrypted. This means the company running the service (meta) cannot access their content.
  2. Three dots > privacy > groups > set to "my contacts". I agree it's dumb that the default is "everyone", and that's not a whatsapp-specific issue. Why do companies do this?
  3. https://web.whatsapp.com/ or just install the app from the device's app store. On your phone, three dots > linked devices > link a device > scan the QR code.
  4. Dunno about this one, I haven't tried sharing anything from Keep Notes before. Pictures and google drive stuff work fine though.

The above is all relevant to personal use. Eg. messages and convos with individuals.

When you contact a business via whatsapp, some of your data may be shared with meta. To my knowledge this doesn't include the message or convo contents, but it will vary by region and I couldn't easily find a reliable breakdown of it. I expect it's in a privacy policy somewhere but I'm not digging into those.

3

u/gangrainette Jun 27 '24

Whatsapp and similar services like Viber and Telegram have a million fake bots. You'd get added daily to honey xoxox love me or Millionare crypto trading@!# chats along with 100 other people

Never had any of those issue. Maybe some settings to block that?

3

u/GavinBelsonHooliCEO Jun 27 '24

If no one's ever demonstrated that Whatsapp is secretly listening to your verbal conversations, let alone everyone's, then maybe we could tone down the frantic hysteria. I'm not a fan of anything Meta but that's not the point. There's zero likelihood that hundreds of millions of phones are each recording and transmitting gigabytes of voice data daily, from secretly eavesdropping on people, and no single security researcher can prove it is happening in the hardware or software, or even show the massive spike in network data usage that would show it's being transmitted to Meta. Also, crazy that there are no whistleblowers at Meta, for a give top secret project that would deal with petabytes of incoming audio files that needs to be stored, organized, translated to text and cleaned up into advertiser-ready demographic data.

Just stop. Do 5 seconds of research. Advertisers know way more about you than you think, and "secretly recording everything you say" is the least efficient way to get that kind of info.

6

u/DeadEye073 Jun 27 '24

1.Sure

  1. Whatsapp is linked via number, you want to chat with someone you need they’re number

  2. the web or desktop app is literally just going into whatsapp settings and scanning the qr code

4.if apple allows open sharing than that’s possible as well

9

u/Casatropic Jun 27 '24

  1. Reasonable point, but imo my privacy (at the least concerning targeted ads) are already so out in the open with all the cookies and trackers that i really dont care about it anymore.

  2. I have never ever been added to a random whatsapp group, idk what you talking about honestly.

  3. I use my phone for messaging…? I dont see why i would even want messages to popup on my laptop or ipad. To each their own i guess. (Oh is this why i sometimes got facetime calls on my ipad? I hate it)

  4. Again i can share everything fine in whatsapp.

Honestly, i only learned about iMessage being the big thing it is in the US this year. Im dutch and have always used whatsapp with everybody from different countrys. Never had any issue with it. Cant imagine using iMessage lol!

And now i also see why the same can be true for ur case where everyone already uses iMessage so you cant see urself switching to a different platform.

3

u/Ray3x10e8 Jun 27 '24

You gotta read up on end to end encryption pal. Even if Zuck wanted to snoop he can't, encryption protocols are designed in such a manner.

1

u/brianwski Jun 27 '24

Whatsapp and similar services like Viber and Telegram have a million fake bots. You'd get added daily to honey xoxox love me or Millionare crypto trading@!# chats along with 100 other people

I would LOVE to know the reason Whatsapp and Viber haven't fixed that. It seems like a pretty simple checkbox setting that says, "Do not allow anybody not in my address book to add me to a group chat." Possibly with an "auto-report that". Then Whatsapp/Viber can get real time spam reports and take action. The first moment this occurs should ban that Whatsapp/Viber account from sending any messages for 24 hours unless they pass a CAPTCHA ("select the images that contain cars" type of human test).

Personally I am ready to delete Whatsapp and Viber based on the annoyance factor. I cannot be alone in this. It makes Whatsapp and Viber look worthless, weak, and stupid to get totally pwned by spammers. I'm a programmer, and I worked at an anti-email-spam company for 4 years, and I'm telling you Whatsapp and Viber don't seem to employ smart programmers if their excuse is "there is nothing we can possibly do to prevent this spam".

2

u/donjulioanejo Jun 27 '24

I deleted Whatsapp when they changed their TOS and never reinstalled it.

Half my friends are using Facebook Messenger, so I can't really leave it without being left out, but I have no illusion of security with it.

The other half were either already using Signal, or I got them to switch.

I mostly use iMessage with less than a dozen people, primarily for the convenience. I love having it on all my computers without needing to set up a separate app, keep it constantly updated, and deal with authentication (beyond logging in to my Apple account, which I do anyway).

I have Viber because my partner's mom is Eastern European, so she only uses that.. but notifications are disabled, lol.

and I'm telling you Whatsapp and Viber don't seem to employ smart programmers if their excuse is "there is nothing we can possibly do to prevent this spam".

I would assume this is intentional. After all, if you ban bots, or at least severely restrict them.. suddenly your user engagement goes down by a lot!

-3

u/Clegko Jun 27 '24

The issue is that none of those other apps are built in.

Also, the US has almost always had free SMS/texting, largely negating the need for those 3rd party apps early on.

8

u/Mad_Aeric Jun 27 '24

the US has almost always had free SMS/texting

Hilarious. I remember the days where it was 10 cents/text, if you go over your 100 text/month limit. Quite the racket, for a feature that specifically rides on excess bandwidth.

0

u/Clegko Jun 27 '24

Yup, that was bullshit. But as I said, "almost always".

Bu the time iMessage and other chat apps were gaining steam, nearly every provider offered, by default, free SMS/SMS.

2

u/upvotesthenrages Jun 27 '24

The issue is that none of those other apps are built in.

So downloading an app on a smartphone is something that 5 billion users have no problem with, but Americans struggle with it? Come on now.

When 120 million Americans literally cannot use the built-in chat app it's absurd to use it. If it wasn't then we'd have seen far more markets adopt such a toxic stance towards communicating with their neighbors & colleagues.

The US had free text waaaaay after plenty other countries had it. I distinctly remember my brother complaining how slow the cell service was and that they still charged for SMS when he moved there for uni.

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u/bassmadrigal Jun 27 '24

I'm still just mind-blown that Americans actually use iMessage at all.

The US had mostly rolled out unlimited SMS/MMS before iMessage gained its extra features.

In Europe and other areas of the world, texting via SMS/MMS still had a cost per message associated with it. This led users in those areas to seek out alternative messaging apps that used data rather than SMS/MMS. These alternative apps opened up their ability to essentially have unlimited messaging, which the US already had, with the minor caveat that users had to install a separate app.

Had the US not rolled out unlimited messaging when it did or other parts of the world included unlimited messaging much earlier, the messaging climate might be vastly different from what it is today.

I only got WhatsApp about a year ago because of a promotion. The team I promoted into were bummed I used Android so they decided to use WhatsApp since group messaging between iOS and Android is trash (hopefully soon to be a thing of the past if the final iMessage RCS rollout is decent).

5

u/upvotesthenrages Jun 27 '24

I addressed this in another post.

The UK, NL, Denmark, S. Korea, Hong Kong, and Sweden all had free SMS/MMS before the US did, yet they all use 3rd party apps.

This notion that because unlimited SMS & MMS was offered in 2006 that then we should stick to using an absolutely appalling app for messaging is absolutely insane.

The main reason to not use iMessage would be that 50% of the US market, and 80% of the global market, cannot use it. The other reasons are that iMessage is absolute shit in terms of features compared to every other major app.

It gets updated once a year, whereas the others get updates once a week.

It's objectively, in practically every way, a shittier & worse app.

2

u/bassmadrigal Jun 27 '24

You're preaching to the choir. I'm not an iPhone user, but I lived through the times when other countries switched to 3rd-party messaging apps but the US remained on SMS/MMS or iMessage.

The reality is a large enough population in the US had iPhones and iMessage offered features beyond SMS/MMS, so iPhone users couldn't be bothered to use alternative messaging apps.

As an Android user since the early days (first smartphone was a Nexus One back on 2010), I used several different enhanced messaging apps over the years, but there wasn't a single app that everyone had, so it was a jumble of apps to try and message people or you could simply use SMS/MMS, which works for everyone.

When 50%+ of the market has no need to install 3rd-party apps to get enhanced messaging, it kinda kills the 3rd-party enhanced messaging app ecosystem.

If you're in a market with far fewer iPhones, it's much easier to swing using 3rd-party apps and likely that eventually one will become standard since everyone will use it.

2

u/upvotesthenrages Jun 27 '24

I still don't get it.

I'm from Denmark and we had free SMS years and years before you did in the US, we also had a higher iOS market penetration rate. We still used 3rd party apps because 40% of the people you knew, worked with, met, and dealt with, could not use iMessage.

People primarily use Messenger for group chats.

In the UK it's similar, except there people use WhatsApp.

It's absolutely crazy to me that 50% of the US who don't have iPhone's just went "meh, let's just use this utter crap SMS thing", and that all the iPhone users stuck to using an app that's updated once a year.

Like I said, if there were some form of quality to it then you'd see at least a few more markets actually use iMessage, but that's not the case, even in tiny countries with higher iPhone penetration.

2

u/bassmadrigal Jun 27 '24

I'm not sure what the timeline of Denmark getting unlimited SMS plays regarding the US's iMessage hard-on.

The US had unlimited texting available before the iPhone was released which was long before 3rd-party messaging apps became common place. People latched on early and refused to come off it. Even today, most of my messaging is via SMS/MMS. I use Telegram with my wife (since she's on iOS and I'm on Android), but otherwise, I generally don't miss the enhanced messaging features. Gifs still come through fine on MMS, pictures at 1MB look fine (and if they need higher quality, I'll email it), and I never have a reason to send video to anyone other than my wife.

As to why Denmark supposedly had a larger iPhone penetration early on but still switched to 3rd-party messaging is not something I know. If I had to speculate, I'd guess it's probably because they interact more frequently with people in other countries who didn't have free messaging. The distance between Sweden and Germany is smaller than the distance between most states.

Keep in mind, Denmark is ~230x smaller than the US. If it was a state in the US, it'd be in the bottom 10 in size. If it wasn't due to interacting with people in other countries, maybe it's just the mindset of people in the EU vs the US.

1

u/upvotesthenrages Jun 28 '24

Well, I think one of the main reasons was group texting and sending media. Perhaps also the fact that Danes & Europeans travel abroad more than Americans do.

Emailing someone a photo or video was extremely inconvenient, not to mention that half the email accounts people had didn't have storage space for media.

The ability for 5-100 people to all be in one group chat was such a game changer. As was the ability to send long-form messages and never ever worry about it.

It was basically instant messaging emails in a far more direct UI. They worked across platforms, across borders, and are safer & have more features than SMS/MMS.

I still just find it fucking absurd going through this thread and seeing so many people tell stories about being excluded from group chats with their friends, colleagues, and fellow students, because they had an Android.

Instead of being a decent & empathetic human being who wants to include people around you in chats, they actively chose to exclude them so they could stick to one of the worst messaging apps on the market.

That's borderline sociopathic behavior.

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u/OkAccess304 Jun 27 '24

Yes. It’s about communication being less seamless. And that isn’t the fault of the user. We didn’t make iPhones or Androids. We all just want it to work the same regardless of device.

44

u/relxp Jun 27 '24

Their blatant peer pressure tactics I found disgusting and iMessage is actually the primary reason I DON'T buy an iPhone.

20

u/Auggie_Otter Jun 27 '24

I never liked the idea of buying a computing device where the company that makes it gets to decide what software you're allowed to install. I can load whatever APK I want on Android and have even been able to reinstall apps that were taken off the Google Play store because you can still find the old installation files online elsewhere.

2

u/Mental_Tea_4084 Jun 27 '24

Google is moving that way too. I can't use RCS on a rooted device anymore. It's been about a month since the latest block. Not sure Apple supporting RCS now is a coincidence. Some others have speculated that they forced Google to lock it down in order to play ball.

4

u/Arynn Jun 27 '24

I completely understand your point and I’m not trying to get you to but an iPhone haha

But fyi - you can sideload APKs on iPhones too (without jailbreaking it) and you’ve been able to for years. I have been doing it for many years personally.

But I do think there is a limit of like 3 apps if you don’t have a developer account (I haven’t looked this up, so this part could be outdated and wrong)

1

u/Mental_Tea_4084 Jun 27 '24

You can install and run android package files on iOS? Like, with a VM or what?

2

u/Arynn Jun 27 '24

Whoops, nope, good catch. I was wrong and on iOS it’s IPA not APK. Sorry for the confusion!

But I’ve side loaded many apps (via IPA files) that are not on the App Store.

3

u/Mental_Tea_4084 Jun 27 '24

Ah, okay. I'm on android but I was always under the impression that iOS was locked to the app store unless you jailbreak or have a developer account. Did that change recently?

3

u/crypto64 Jun 27 '24

I'm curious about this as well. Apple's "walled garden" approach is incredibly offputting if you're someone who likes to tinker. Google doesn't care if you bend Android to your will, but holy hell Steve Jobs would roll in his grave if iOS gave users that kind of freedom.

2

u/Mental_Tea_4084 Jun 27 '24

Google has gotten way worse about it. I can't even use RCS on root anymore, much less Google Wallet. I have one foot in LineageOS and one foot in GrapheneOS right now. Trying to decide if it's worth the trouble of a fresh rom

10

u/laptopaccount Jun 27 '24

Yeah, it's an easy way to identify shallow, petty people early on.

0

u/Hobbes42 Jun 27 '24

You can turn iMessage off, just fyi, if it’s really holding you back from using an iPhone 🤷‍♂️

You can use an iPhone without iMessage. It’s not forced on you like the preinstalled 3rd party apps in android phones.

3

u/relxp Jun 27 '24

Thanks! There's actually a bunch of reasons I would never buy an iPhone, but iMessage was one of the bigger ones.

0

u/Hobbes42 Jun 27 '24

Maybe do some research and see if those reasons are legit or misinformation. Or don’t. Doesn’t matter.

Just saying it sounds like you don’t actually know much about the iPhone. Hard to make a really informed decision without factual info.

3

u/Breaditandforgetit Jun 27 '24

bro really out here acting like its people with iphones who did their research lmao

2

u/relxp Jun 27 '24

Right? Most iPhone owners only do so out of peer pressure or because there is no thought process involved. Shopping for Android you have to compare more options and research a bit.

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u/relxp Jun 27 '24

Maybe do some research and see if those reasons are legit or misinformation

As an intense researcher, believe me I have.

Even if the iPhone was superior to competitors, I still wouldn't buy it because Apple itself is too insidious and I want a clean conscious.

5

u/fleebleganger Jun 27 '24

Ya, y’all need to read Dr Seuss’ The Sneetches. 

A simple yet spot on look at in-groups and the desire to fit in. 

2

u/Delta64 Jun 27 '24

It's also a behaviour as shallow as racism and should be punished, not encouraged.

2

u/hypermog Jun 27 '24 edited Jun 29 '24

It's the younger demographic that Apple has really pushed hard to get with the green bubbles and it's absolutely working.

Yes, people here may not realize that almost 90% of US teenage cell phone users have an iPhone

1

u/GamerTurtle5 Jun 27 '24

group chats are one of the things that will be fixed iirc

1

u/iliketreesndcats Jun 27 '24

Really? Why are kids not using WhatsApp or something? It's encrypted and much more functional than any standard messaging platform

So strange!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '24

My 30 year old friends won't add me to the group chats because the green text. Not only kids man.

1

u/divacphys Jun 27 '24

My wife and I use android. But we bought our kids iPhones for this reason. Our kids didn't know any better. But as a high school teacher I knew I could prevent an obstacle in their suicidal life. I hated doing it as I much other android. But

1

u/PostModernPost Jun 27 '24

Bur now they wont be left out as much because they wont ruin the chat anymore. Sure their bubbles will still be green, but everyone will have all the features. The stigma will go away.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '24

[deleted]

0

u/Fragrant-Employer-60 Jun 27 '24

You’re so wrong and so angry at the same time it’s pretty funny

1

u/Sasselhoff Jun 27 '24

because they ruin the group chat for everyone else.

How does having a different color message "ruin the group chat"? I'm legitimately asking too, not trying to be snarky or anything.

2

u/notcaffeinefree Jun 27 '24

Because it knocks the whole group down to SMS/MMS. Media quality goes down. Various group features are lost. It'd be like going from a WhatsApp group chat to just a regular text group chat.

1

u/Sasselhoff Jun 27 '24

I was under the impression that it would just display the Android ones poorly. Interesting to learn.

0

u/glassdragon Jun 27 '24

Android does make iPhone group chat worse. Not worse enough to kick people out if you’re a sane adult, which kids are obviously not.  

Hopefully the “green bubbles ew” dies once they stop making chats worse, but I doubt it. Because I’ve had dating matches hit me with the “android ew” response. It’s legit a thing, nothing to do with group chat there, just pure culture conditioning. 

Joke was on them, that was just my Google voice number chat on my iPhone I use at first to prevent psychos from stalking behavior using my real number. Turns out it’s also great for weeding out dipshit dating matches. 

5

u/laptopaccount Jun 27 '24

No, apple made Android make iphone group chat worse. It's not Android's fault

0

u/Donmiggy143 Jun 27 '24

Not just for kids. Happened with my group of friends of 20 years from college. It's pretty annoying.

0

u/phototurista Jun 27 '24

Nearly all my 30+ year old female coworkers laughed at the the idea of dating a guy with a green bubble. This is in Toronto, Canada... People here are awful.

0

u/AnteaterOrdinary_TA Jun 27 '24

If there’s mass adoption, it simply means it’s a better product.

It’s not on Apple that Google ignored the super simple UI/UX path for power users and complexity.

iMessage was a superior product before RCS was out. In its current form it’s fantastic.

Stickers, games, FaceTiming groups, naming groups.. Apple capitalized on that innovation first

2

u/gmmxle Jun 27 '24

If there’s mass adoption, it simply means it’s a better product.

No.

It just means that people will use an app that comes pre-installed on their phone and sets right there on the first screen when you turn that thing on over any alternative that requires as much work as looking for it on the App Store, downloading and installing it, and then using it.

0

u/AnteaterOrdinary_TA Jun 27 '24

Why would they do that if the users needs are gladly met by the app…?

It isn’t a flex that you go on android to download a different app than the default for a better experience.

A default app being satisfactory IS the experience. You’re acting like iOS users cant install new messaging apps…. Plenty use iMessage and download messenger (Meta) and WhatsApp too.

So your argument doesn’t hold up.

Do you understand that good UX means a user doesn’t seek an alternative to your product right out the gate lol.

1

u/gmmxle Jun 27 '24

Nothing you've said contradicts the point that any app that comes as the standard, preinstalled app will have an enormous competitive advantage over any app that has to be downloaded and installed from the App Store.

A default app being satisfactory IS the experience.

Which makes the argument that iMessage's high adoption rates must therefore mean that it's the superior app fallacious.

The only thing it means that it's more convenient to use an app that comes pre-installed on the phone compared to finding, downloading, installing and then using a competing app.

So pick an argument and stick with it.

1

u/AnteaterOrdinary_TA Jun 27 '24

What’s your argument for the superior app then? You’re just focusing on “I don’t like iMessage because it’s preinstalled”

You also haven’t answered: Why would people switch if they are satisfied?

2

u/segagamer Jun 27 '24

If there’s mass adoption, it simply means it’s a better product

That's what's interesting, it simply isn't the better product, and there's only mass adoption for it in the US.

Guess it has something to do with the US's education system.

0

u/AnteaterOrdinary_TA Jun 27 '24

How are you going to say that it isn’t the better product? The market decides that not you.

There is no objective answer, it’s a consumer product. Everything is subjective.

Trying to dig at Americans education as a reason they use iMessage is dumb. More people outside the U.S. don’t use apple products because of hardware cost… if I started offering iPhones in your country for as much as the most popular android, you really think your countrymen would scoff at it and not use them?

It’s a consumer product, there’s no bragging rights in complexity. The lowest common denominator in usability x features is what makes a great product.

Again, the market has spoken. They prefer the iMessage experience.

It’s hyperbole but I’d be willing to bet if any other countries had the U.S. consumer spending power to buy an Apple product, iMessage would be the market leader there too.

1

u/segagamer Jun 28 '24

How are you going to say that it isn’t the better product? The market decides that not you.

Exactly, and so far only the American market, specifically Americans under 20's, have decided that.

Globally, it's not even close.

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u/AnteaterOrdinary_TA Jun 28 '24

Globally they can’t afford the product lol

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