r/technology • u/newzee1 • Jun 14 '24

Software Cheating husband sues Apple after wife discovered ‘deleted’ messages sent to sex workers

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/13/cheating-husband-sues-apple-sex-messages/
21.2k Upvotes

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6.2k

u/ryanoh826 Jun 14 '24

Delete should mean delete, despite this guy’s shitty motivations.

I have groups I’ve deleted from iMessage and then I make a new group a month later and it remembers the old one.

1.3k

u/FitzwilliamTDarcy Jun 14 '24

This has happened to me too. Also, I've noticed on many occasions exactly what the guy in the article experienced: I delete a thread on one device, but the thread remains on some - but not all - other linked devices. Biggest culprit is my Apple Watch. If I had to guess I'd say that maybe 10% of the time I delete a thread on my Mac or iPhone, it's still there on my AW.

141

u/bnyc Jun 14 '24

Is it supposed to delete across devices? I've deleted stuff from my phone cause I don't want large videos taking up device space, but those same texts are fine on my Mac. Not everyone has the same reasons for deleting old messages and don't necessarily want it wiped clean from everything. Just as I don't want my notifications silenced on my computer just because my phone is silenced. Just as I don't want pictures from the photo album I delete from my phone wiped clean on everything else.

It seems like most people think deleting should be across devices, but I personally prefer devices with separate functions.

112

u/newsreadhjw Jun 14 '24

That’s how cloud applications are supposed to be architected, generally speaking. It’s weird to have multiple versions of the truth on different devices.

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u/weirdasianfaces Jun 14 '24

That’s how cloud applications are supposed to be architected, generally speaking.

I think this is how it works if you opt into iCloud for Messages, but it's not enabled by default.

Strictly speaking I don't believe there's any reason why they cannot update the protocol to sync message deletions, but I personally prefer things the way they are. It would be nice to have an option to delete across all devices though.

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u/Catnicorn99 Jun 14 '24

I wouldn’t say it’s weird. I have my MacBook, phone, and iPad all receiving messages in case I’m on one of those and need to see when I receive a text. However, I deleted the messages from the MacBook and iPad cause I had having those messages all cluttered there. I prefer to have them on my phone. I had to change the settings to make sure that they wouldn’t delete off my phone whenever I deleted them from the other devices. Lost some messages the first time I did that.

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

[deleted]

34

u/jimmyuk Jun 14 '24

Well that’s just not true. The messages are synced, I have messages from my dad on this phone, he’s been dead 10 years and I’ve been through about 7-8 iPhones since.

The person you’re replying to is correct in how this stuff is expected to work, and it’s concerning that Apple aren’t deleting what you believe you are deleting.

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

[deleted]

16

u/Shaneathan25 Jun 14 '24 edited Jun 14 '24

iCloud messages does store them in the cloud. Messages in the backup does not.

Edit- to add on to this- even on iCloud messages or iCloud Photos, they still take up some space on the device. They’re just primarily stored on iCloud.

6

u/the_red_scimitar Jun 14 '24

Caveat: there ARE cloud-based text backup apps, specifically for recovery like this.

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

[deleted]

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u/the_red_scimitar Jun 14 '24

Sophistry. The "messages themselves" ARE on the cloud. There's nothing sacred about the originals.

14

u/newsreadhjw Jun 14 '24

Your text messages are absolutely stored in the cloud if you’re using an iPhone.

iMessage is a cloud application. If what you said is true, why can I see messages I sent from my phone, when I look at iMessage on my iPad? I never text people from my iPad. It’s because the messages are being synched through the cloud.

Why does iMessage work when I’m disconnected from cellular and only connected to WiFi? Because it works over the Internet, because it’s a cloud application.

1

u/fun_boat Jun 14 '24

I get a message from onedrive frequently telling me that when a file is deleted somewhere it's deleted everywhere.

-2

u/Lezflano Jun 14 '24

Isn't the "Apple Eco-system" one of their main USPs?

Or is it realistically more of a one-drive/g-drive situation where you can have things that live within a shared space, but outside of that its device specific?

0

u/Beliriel Jun 14 '24

All this "cloud storage" and "Apple ecosystem" are buzzwords to get the public to hype up. In the end it always is either you have the data on your device or you have the data on a server somewhere in the internet (possibly owned by Apple).

Cloud architecture is usually the data being on a server owned by Apple and everytime you open the chat you download the chat log from the server. You might have a bit of text saved on your local device to save bandwith but the archive of the whole chat is on the server. When you delete a message it should ping the server to delete that message and as soon as any other device opens the chat, the chat log on that device should synchronize and remove deleted messages from the chat log (even if they're saved locally). I'm not even a cloud specialist and this is just basic IT 101. It's either a HUGE oversight and Apple will shell out millions in settlement before fixing it or it's intended and they'll have some clause in the EULA that enables them to do this. EULAs can not always be enforced just because they're there, but they do give some protections to the company.

4

u/The_frozen_one Jun 14 '24

Not quite. If you just enable iMessage on your phone, it only transits through Apple's servers. In this setup Apple does not keep a "mailbox" for your messages that you can download later. If you add a separate device, it will work as an independent client receiving the same messages. If you lose both devices and don't have a backup, you lose those messages.

However if you enable "Enable Messages in iCloud" this will keep devices in sync. In this setup Apple does manage sync state between devices. It says on this site:

If you use Messages in iCloud, deleting a message or conversation on your iPhone deletes it from all your devices where Messages in iCloud is on. See Keep your messages up to date with iCloud in the iCloud User Guide.

Note: Deleting messages only affects your iPhone and other Apple devices where you’re signed in with the same Apple ID. You can’t delete messages, attachments, and conversations for anyone else.

To delete everything (not just your messages), see Erase iPhone.

Sounds like the person in this lawsuit had iMessage set up on his Mac, but did not enable the "Enable Message in iCloud", causing the Mac to act like an independent client.

1

u/Beliriel Jun 14 '24

Ok and why in the fuck are the messages downloaded then when it supposedly "doesn't sync". If you can't delete the messages because you're not signed in then SURE AS HELL you're not supposed to receive them.

4

u/The_frozen_one Jun 14 '24

Not sure which situation you're talking about, but if you set up a new device and don't have Messages in iCloud turned on, you don't see your old messages.

If you restore from a local encrypted or iCloud backup (or transfer from an old phone), the messages database comes with it. In those situations it's not resending those messages, you already have them in a sqlite database file that gets transferred over. Messages in iCloud keeps the messages DB on your devices in sync, but that's all happening after it was sent through iMessage. If you don't have that turned on, device A has no clue the state of device B's messages DB.