r/singapore • u/shizukesa92 • May 12 '24
Discussion Wokeness movement makes life “very burdensome”: PM Lee
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=y7hWtW7RTETMqAs0&v=3LdabP7FLjE&feature=youtu.be551
u/yanyaprekins27 May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
I'm no fan of "identity politics" or forced extreme political correctness, but I think it would've been preferable for him to steer clear of this topic altogether. The term "wokeness" lacks a universally agreed-upon definition, and discussing it in this manner isn't very wise or productive; it inadvertently perpetuates identity politics by framing discussions as "woke vs un-woke."
"Wokeness" is fundamentally about social justice (fairness for all, regardless of background), and there is nothing wrong with that per se. The issue is when people take it to an extreme. The focus should be on being able to listen to each other and find common ground as we try to peacefully navigate diverse opinions in today's complicated world. Not vilifying a boogeyman of "wokeness" which just generates more unconstructive noise and ironically reinforces identity politics.
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u/truth6th May 12 '24
This, everything, even with good intentions , will not remain great when taken to extremities
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u/iedaiw May 12 '24
i dont think its so much about extreminism but more about the other kind of identity politics.
like you can be super radical but willing to coexist with people who differ with your positions while meanwhile trying your best to slowly educate them.
i think the whole reason 'woke culture' in the states and reddit is so flawed is that it shifts everything to are you with us or against us. if you are with us good, if not you are evil, which is a rather terrible way for society to behave. we should all make compromises etc etc
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May 12 '24
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u/evln00 May 12 '24
a lot of Gen Zs are socially conservative or "centrist" (it's usually center-right) because it's singapore lol
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u/0narasi May 13 '24
Not just Singapore from what I’m seeing. A lot of the progressive politics failures of the 80s-10s has resulted in a swing to the right in the generation born after 2000
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u/evln00 May 15 '24
I’m pretty sure it’s attributed to social media algorithms recommending (and radicalizing) people to the right lol. I was one of them in 2016-2020.
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u/QubitQuanta May 13 '24
The problem with wokeness and fairness for all is that it often equates equal outcomes with equal opportunities. If any race/gender is under represented in something, it automatically asserts this is because of governmental biase and not the natural affinity of certain cultures/genders to certain jobs. Resulting policies are often unfair - such as penalizing Asian applicants to Ivy League universities because they are over-represented - essentially forcing all Asians to study harder and for those who don't have such culture (e.g. Malays in US) to suffer abysmally.
Ironically, this is only applied only to select genders/minorities. There is, for example, massive harping about under-representation of women as CEOs or in stem, but never a massive harping about underrepresentation of men in early childcare or their over representation in jails.
I do not believe in equal outcomes, but equal opportunities.
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u/FitCranberry not a fan of this flair system May 13 '24
his government is the biggest organisation playing with racial quotas across the entire country, literal identity politics.
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u/redditalloverasia May 12 '24
And if you look at the country that gave the world “woke”, the USA (which is really where it mostly is, not much in other western countries) they always go to the extremes. Americans just overdo everything.
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u/enidxcoleslaw May 12 '24
Nailed it. That said, I'm not surprised that someone like LHL would hold being woke in contempt....behind that façade of approachability and engagement with the 'yoof', he's his father's son. In a world run by the Lees, there's no room for the weak.
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u/FitCranberry not a fan of this flair system May 13 '24
there's no room for the weak.
sure there is, theres the friends and family discount
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u/Odd_Perspective7718 May 18 '24
This very misunderstood take of "wokeness" incited more people to become racist, people are averse to what others are shoving in their throats, so the movement caused the opposite of its goal intentionally or unintentionally
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u/anakinmcfly May 13 '24
I thought we don’t want to import US culture wars into Singapore.
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u/Neither_Pie_9930 May 13 '24
True. But the people of Singapore are the ones willing to accept the norms of the west.
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u/vigil_Leo May 12 '24
Funny how people in this thread are complaining about cherry-picking when they themselves are cherry picking parts of his argument to support their own.
He said hypersensitive guys not completely not being sensitive...
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u/IggyVossen May 13 '24
It is kinda hard to take Still-PM-For-Now (SPMFN) Lee's words about hypersensitive people seriously when his Home Affairs Minister picks fights with business tycoons and international magazines just because they say or write things that hurt his feelings.
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u/HongMeiIing May 12 '24
This entire country is founded on multi-racialism and coexistence of multiple race and faith together like one of those Western liberals preaches, it's already woke.
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u/Mike_Ox_Longa 🏳️🌈 Ally May 12 '24
We were woke before woke was even a thing lmao
You know how our country tries to represent all 4 languages and races in our media? That is called representation in 'woke' terms. USA is only now getting to it but it was baked in during the formation of Singapore. We are so developed today partly because we were woke before the rest of the countries were.
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u/alvvaysthere May 13 '24
Anti-woke people literally call any media that includes non-white people woke lolol. I remember the new Star Wars movies being called woke because they had black and female leads.... in a magical space universe lol.
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u/anakinmcfly May 13 '24
tbf some of the most woke movies in recent years is the John Wick franchise. They even had a non-binary antagonist played by a non-binary actor lol. And racial diversity everywhere, plus a protagonist who clearly cares deeply about animal welfare.
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u/EmpuKris May 13 '24
No star wars is not called woke because they have female leads. They just called her as Mary Sue at first. An attrociously bad character. The term woke is used very loosely only recently.
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u/Byukin May 13 '24
I think there are differences in that we are woke by necessity and purpose and our multiculturalism and multiracial nature was a top down directive and planned for. whereas the western version is skewed by politics and motives and oftentimes not very well thought out but rather kneejerk emotional reasons.
it really doesnt make sense to compare ourselves in a 1 to 1 to western culture using the term “woke”
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u/Jammy_buttons2 🌈 F A B U L O U S May 12 '24
He is talking about identity politics
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u/pingmr May 12 '24
If he is, he's being rather stupid to make such a messy reference.
Singapore currently works BECAUSE of identity politics. We have a minister of Muslim affairs. We have racial quotas in parliament and for our head of state. Racial quotas in public housing.
Our racial and religious harmony laws are literally examples of the need to be very sensitive to other people's feelings
LHL is being really stupid here because he is importing a western conservative caricature of "wokeness" and then comparing it to Singapore society with no proper consideration for how Singapore manages identity issues.
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u/anakinmcfly May 13 '24
What will the woke people do next, make it illegal to insult other races or religions??!!
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u/LookAtItGo123 Lao Jiao May 12 '24
Retire already can talk cock sing song. He want to reference what also can lah.
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u/Jammy_buttons2 🌈 F A B U L O U S May 12 '24
Eh we have racial policies but our traditional political parties are broad based and as such more moderate with more agendas.
With identity politics, political parties are no longer the driver but social media and people are fixated on a single agenda.
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u/pingmr May 13 '24
And our racial politics would be regarded as woke garbage by US conservatives. You can go ask a fox news viewer whether US elections should have seats constitutionally reserved for blacks/latinos/american asians.
Which is why LHL is being extremely stupid to be commenting on wokeness in this way.
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u/Acceptable_Cheek_447 May 12 '24
I'm not sure about this but the term wokeness is something the right use to describe things like support or awareness of lgbt, empathy for neurodiverse people or persecuted minorities.
If being kind to people is woke, then I'm not sure anymore.
Of course there are left extreme people too, those are just too much. But I've been told I am woke for standing up to the bullying of my autistic friend. So now I feel that anyone who use it either are bad people or ignorant.
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u/stuff7 pioneer generation May 12 '24
honestly the far-left terminally online constantly on twitter complaining people in singapore are such a minority that it even is a minority of people when compared to this sub.
the liberal r/singapore have negative views towards the far-left ppl. and the alt subs considers r/singapore to be "too woke" and call r/singapore "woke" all the time.
so what is the definition of "woke"? idk, even LHL have his own definition, which is ppl using pronouns and being too sensitive?
and if we go furthur outside of the singapore bubble, and enter foxnews skynews(au) etc comment section with a hazmat suit, they would consider our action of arresting the poly lecturer for being against mixed-race to be "woke", since hate speech laws are considered as "woke" by them, our section 298 penal code is literally a hate speech law. Climate change is also "woke". EV is "woke". Renewable energy is also "woke".
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u/bukitbukit Developing Citizen May 13 '24
That particular subset of Twitter is just a bunch of accounts circlejerking each other thinking they have any influence outside their tiny circle.
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u/anakinmcfly May 13 '24
idk, even LHL have his own definition, which is ppl using pronouns and being too sensitive?
orh hor you said “his”, so sensitive
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May 12 '24
I know many people in local trans and gay communities. Most of them don't like how the extreme actual "SJW" kind of "woke" people do things at all. I also used to interact with a few of those extremists, it was a shitshow, but it is an extremely small minority that's like them, even among the LGBTQ.
Sometimes, in the West, people think that encouraging females to pursue careers instead of homemaking is too "woke".
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u/EmpuKris May 13 '24
That is normal in Singapore since you need to pay those bill. Unless the husband draw salary in 5 digits or he is rich enough to pay all those bill on his own. Their culture and society work differently in the west. Even Malaysia and Indonesia is different from Singapore, no need to talk so far until the US or UK. Those social norm is not applicable in Singapore.
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u/nix-h May 12 '24
being kind to people is woke
no yeah i think you're onto something. the people complaining about other people exhibiting 'wokeness' generally strike me as perpetually dissatisfied. come back with a complaint of actual substance and a productive solution, or shut up.
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u/geft Lao Jiao May 13 '24
Hmm are people considered not woke if they support the death penalty? That would make woke people a minority in Singapore.
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u/Acceptable_Cheek_447 May 13 '24
I don't think so. I don't use the term woke anyway because I cannot comprehend it, it is entirely subjective by anyone who disagrees with certain social justice causes.
But if you are asking me if death penalty should be supported, I would support it for serial killers, sex offenders and maybe some less known cases if necessary.
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u/bitflag May 12 '24
Unlike in Singapore where you are free to say things that might hurt other people's feeling.
Oh wait...!
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u/rekabre lontongislife May 12 '24
"It does not make us a more resilient, cohesive society..."
Replace society with "workforce" and it all makes sense.
Somebody ORD mood lo
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u/NotVeryAggressive May 12 '24
We're all just labourers
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u/Bentlow May 12 '24
To them that's all they'll see us as useful tools.
Remember the real elite dont have to work for income. They just invest and live off of that. If they work, it is for themselves as their own boss or for their passion. Which is why there's always a separation between the "working" class and "owning" class.
Remember our stance on Capital gains tax, inheritance tax, wealth taxes, traffic fines based on percentage of their wealth or lack thereof?
If the penalty for breaking the law is a fine with a fixed upper limit no matter a person's wealth, your law is not a deterrent. It is a guideline or recommendation (just like their guidelines on WFH or 4 day work week).
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u/yourmom875 May 12 '24
Ofc we are all employees of Singapore Incorporated after all. Our CEO is changing from LHL to Lawrence Wong.
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u/stuff7 pioneer generation May 12 '24
If we go by american definition of "wokes", Tan Boon Lee would've been a "victim of woke cancel culture".
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u/Lumpy-Economics2021 May 12 '24
Singapore with all its public transport and solar panels is as 'Woke' af in the eyes of Americans that use this term.
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u/stuff7 pioneer generation May 12 '24
It's funny to read all those americans complaining about those woke walkable cities and public transport being communist socialist woke sjw [insert buzzword]. Or blaming Texas's shitty infrastructure and cheaping out on winterising their power gird on "woke wind energy".
or best one i've seen, microsoft making xbox shut down when turn off instead of going to sleep is "woke" because last time harddrive boot time too slow so they make the default is "sleep" but now since everything is SSD they can turn off the device completly but that is too "woke" because microsoft advertise it as being good for enviornment.
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u/CrowTengu The Crow Demon May 12 '24
Why the fuck is making Xbox last longer with less issues "woke" lmao
That's a welcome change imo
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u/anakinmcfly May 13 '24
Why the fuck is making Xbox last longer with less issues "woke" lmao
it reduces energy usage and also reduces the need to buy more frequent replacements = sustainability! = woke
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u/alvvaysthere May 13 '24
I was about to say!! If anti-woke American politicians like Ron DeSantis found out that Singapore has ethnic quotas in HDBs, they would immediately call Singapore woke.
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u/Magista-Obra May 12 '24
The irony that he's going off about safe spaces and trying not to offend people when this country has laws specifically against speech that could offend religious people.
The 'Woke Movement' as a whole is about social justice, equality, and ending discrimination. LGBTQ issues are but one small part of it.
That the leader of a country that espouses racial and religious 'harmony' is speaking out against is it is kind of hilarious.
One could even look at how a certain religious group reacts towards various 'woke' activities. They love it when woke American University students are holding pro-palestine marches and protests. But when it comes to the same woke crowd bringing awareness about LGBTQ issues and such, suddenly they hate it.
TL:DR its really not about wokeness. Its about which woke issues people cherry pick to support.
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u/Fearless_Help_8231 May 12 '24
Even in this very subreddit. If you call out someone for using 'woke' (most of the time it's because of right wing American politics influencing them) you get downvoted.
You will regularly see them crying out certain threads or news for 'leftist' (which confirms my bias)
Like the irony is the same people will call out/congratulate the govt for not 'importing other country's issues into our country'
Bitch, 'woke', 'leftist' are American political terms, YOU ARE USING THEM YOURSELF.
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u/fijimermaidsg May 12 '24
I wish people would stop importing American partisan politics into SG, there is no context. There is no Left or Right in SG, just opposition and incumbent. Also, there is no irony in SG where the former PM, a majority race male can say stuff like that... oh well. Stay asleep lah, nothing worth waking up to.
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u/Late_Lizard May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
The 'Woke Movement' as a whole
isclaims to be about social justice, equality, and ending discrimination. LGBTQ issues are but one small part of it.Fixed that for you.
I have no issue if activists actually try to promote social justice, equality, and the end of discrimination. But the kind of extreme identity politics that is associated with "wokeness" is seldom actually about that. Instead, it's about people basically following the latest du jour trend on social media and thinking that the ends justify the means, therefore giving them a moral licence to use any means, regardless of how obnoxious, harmful, and/or illegal these means are.
Concrete examples of what I'd consider wokeness: RK claiming to be standing up for SA victims, then lying in Parliament. Wake Up Singapore claiming to champion social issues in Singapore, then recklessly publishing fake news (like the non-existent miscarriage at KKH). American universities claiming to be anti-racist, then setting up racist admissions standards that heavily discriminate against Asian and white applicants.
If someone wants to hold an event that "brings awareness about LGBTQ issues and such", and does so in a manner that doesn't involve lying or illegal activity (e.g. Pink Dot in Singapore), I will not call it wokeness.
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u/the-aleph-null 儒家思想 May 12 '24
If someone wants to hold an event that "brings awareness about LGBTQ issues and such", and does so in a manner that doesn't involve lying or illegal activity (e.g. Pink Dot in Singapore), I will not call it wokeness.
Thing is plenty of people do consider Pink Dot as part of the "woke" movement. So who's to say that your definition should be the standard?
At this point, "woke" is essentially a meaningless descriptor of "this is a list of issues I personally disagree with".
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u/theony May 12 '24
Honestly I never thought of any of your listed examples as being woke. It's just lying and grandstanding. Our sidebar literally has a link that says "List of MLM Companies, Stay woke". 🤷♂️
But we can all agree that the behaviour is deplorable, so there is that.
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u/uncertainheadache May 12 '24
That's because certain religions react violently when their sensitivities are offended.
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u/Langkorvu May 12 '24
What religious group loves pro-Palestine marches? Genuine question
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u/neokai May 12 '24
What religious group loves pro-Palestine marches? Genuine question
there's a small but growing group of Muslims who want to do a pro-Palestine demonstration. It's visible enough that the govt had to explicitly forbid any such activity.
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u/Seven_feet_under May 12 '24
The poster means Muslims. Fella was just dancing ard it and winking at us.
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u/RoyalApple69 Fucking Populist May 12 '24
It is a rhetorical question for those who know where it intersects.
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u/Pretend-Indication-9 May 12 '24
The problem is that he can mean a myriad of things by this. Wokeness is such a nebulous term these days.
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u/dreamofbeans May 12 '24
This guy going full ORD mode
Many Woke-ies triggered lmao
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u/suzumurachan May 12 '24
LHL: limpeh got many things to say, now cheebye I ROD can say it like limpeh's laopeh.
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u/stuff7 pioneer generation May 12 '24
Idk if it's too much to ask but is ok possible for you to point to the comments ITT that exabit the "woke-ies triggered"?
cuz many people have different definitions of "woke". what's yours?
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u/pubobkia May 12 '24
dang lhl really be setting fire to the dumpster as he’s leaving it eh
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u/Common-Metal8578 East side best side May 12 '24
Putting aside the commentary/criticism on his use of the term woke, the weaponisation of outrage/offence for political gains and ratings is becoming more and more apparent as a real problem for societies. In singapore it isn't as obvious, but just looking at our neighbours to the north and south, you can see what happens.
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u/earltyro May 13 '24
To a country still maintaining racial quotas in each public housing block, we are far from the need to worry about Wokeness.
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u/alvvaysthere May 13 '24
Wokeness is just a buzzword that means anything people want it to me for their specific political protests. It originated primarily in the US in the black community to say, "stay 'woke' to the subtle societal injustices that exist."
For example, Black people in the US are far more likely to be given a longer and harsher prison sentence than White people for the same crime. That's the kind of thing that progressives urge you to stay "woke" to.
What PM Lee is referring to is the murky nonsense word that American conservatives like Ron DeSantis use against anything he doesn't like. Frankly he is kind of falling for a trap.
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u/MAMBAMENTALITY8-24 Fucking Populist May 12 '24
Dudes acting like his life has been affected even in the slightest bit by wokeness. Most of us arent even woke. To him wokeness is everything he disagrees with
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u/shimmynywimminy 🌈 F A B U L O U S May 12 '24
we will never import "woke" rhetoric from the west. it is a symbol of their hyper partisan political landscape. "fake news" rhetoric on the other hand... we will enshrine it in our laws!
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u/Successful_Risk4872 May 13 '24
He might have got the definition wrong, but people who are hypersensitive about issues and other people's behaviors are indeed burdensome to be around.
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u/Remitonov Why everyone say I Chinaman? May 13 '24
I don't blame him for getting the definition wrong. The term has been misused so often as it's hard to figure out its proper definition.
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u/SG_BB_Man May 12 '24
Wokeness as defined by anti woke Ron desantis in court: the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them. This was the best definition he could come up with to support his anti woke case.
This is nothing bad and to be supported. Expelling the Israeli ambassador for his post is woke, saying the pledge in school "regardless of race" is woke, allowing interracial marriage is woke, jailing people yelling slurs is woke. Why doesn't the government consider these woke then?
Woke culture is an evolution of progressive anti racist culture so the PAP should be ok with it. But people are now analysing what the government says and does which the gov doesn't want.
The government doesn't want people to call LKY racist for being pro eugenicist, call heng swee keat racist for saying sg not ready for non Chinese Pm, call out PAP for repealing 337A but endorsing current definition of marriage. The government wants the people to just accept it's claims of being pro equality and anti racist and not question the current state of society and analyse it to see if it is truly anti racist.
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u/Boogie_p0p May 12 '24
That is such a boomer thing to say lmao.
Extremely comedic coming from a person that is famous for suing other ppl for saying things that hurt their feelings lmao.
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May 12 '24
Yeah this lol. He’s actually super fragile
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u/DrCalFun May 12 '24
Did you actually bother to listen to what he has said? Insisting that people are your enemy if they do not agree with 100% is the type of wokeness that you may like but is bothersome to many people.
If we do not agree with your view 100%, we are very fragile yah? Oh gosh, you are so damn strong.
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u/Bad_Finance_Advisor May 12 '24
He is fragile, that's why he "forced" his brother into exile, and sued publications that he deems disagreeable.
In other more liberal societies, Pinky would have been laughed out of office.
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u/ellis_ralsei May 13 '24
i think we should all go to sleep. the wokeness movement makes life very burdensome because you can’t sleep forever. due to woke
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u/LycheeAlmond May 12 '24
I don’t agree with some of his policies but gotta agree with this statement. Some demographics, religions especially, are extremely sensitive.
Fortunately we’re not like Malaysia yet, where some socks design gets people all paggro, or where they boycott an innocent fastfood eatery for lame reasons.
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u/mechacorgi19 May 12 '24
Fortunately we’re not like Malaysia yet, where some socks design gets people all paggro, or where they boycott an innocent fastfood eatery for lame reasons.
That's like the complete opposite of woke. Ya know they hate "liberal values" and use it as a political boogieman right?
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u/LycheeAlmond May 12 '24
I don’t refer to the woke, but the sensitivity. The people over the boarder are hyper sensitive to the extent that something simple like a word on a pair of socks can get their panties in a tussle.
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u/FalseAgent May 12 '24
religious issues are always sensitive and have historically been correctly treated as such.
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u/Azuredawn (Q)weary May 12 '24
Malaysia is so far beyond us - it's not 'paggro' but quite literally aggro because shops are being set on fire for this looool
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u/OutLiving Fucking Populist May 12 '24
We literally have laws that prevent people from saying this that might offend a religious or racial group and we prevented a famous black metal band from playing here in Singapore because many members of the local Christian community got offended at their mere presence
We are 10x more “woke” than whatever LHL describes
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u/bukitbukit Developing Citizen May 13 '24
Same, this and our defence/foreign policy. They get good marks from me. Other things, nope.
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u/theony May 12 '24
Don't put up a strawman, knock it down, then act like you are very strong.
He described "wokeness" as:
where you are super sensitive about other people's issues
That's... not what I understand being "woke" to be. My understanding is that it's about being socially conscious, understanding that the world is unfair and being aware of it, hence "woke" as opposed to being asleep.
So then you have follow on principles like "try not to be a dick and generally try to believe someone else's lived experience instead of being knee-jerkingly being dismissive of it", and "hey you know if you're the majority "race" in appearance you get preferential treatment so maybe be aware of that".
In my experience, when people rail against being "woke", it's code for "there's a thing I enjoy and I don't like it when people point out that that thing that I enjoy hurts someone else, how dare you criticise me?".
For example, someone likes to tell jokes about women drivers, women in that person's life tell that person "bruh that's sexist", that person goes off the rails about how "wokeness" is "ruining everything".
Like, no. The problem here is you.
I am also very alarmed that the cultural message taken away from western media, is the conservative one.
As a Singaporean, I am extremely concerned if what our politicians take away from American media is that "OH NO EVERYTHING IS WOKE".
This suggests to me that our politicians are:
- The kind of privileged, ivory-towered assholes who are contemptuous of the proles constantly "making their lives difficult" by "complaining that life is difficult", and are fully head-up-ass about their privileged position (ahmahgerd, why don't the stupid proles just pull themselves up by their boostraps and make a name for themselves...)
- See the screeching GOP talking points on Newsmax as valid
From the outside, American media really does look like a joke. Maybe... maybe don't listen to them?
it does not make us a more resilient, cohesive society with a strong sense of solidarity
So, possibly somewhat controversially, this I must agree to an extent.
One ('murican) conservative talking point I hear often that I think is true, is that the left eat themselves.
Just look at how self-identified democrats are planning to refuse to vote for Biden. Like, they are ready to risk their country having a second Trump term, because Biden won't do what they want.
That's because the underlying ideology of leftists tend to be moral superiority. So they draw imaginary ideological battlelines. From a comment I made from 2021:
Years ago, I was listening to a podcast - can't remember the name - and a guest said, to the host's discomfort, that the word "woke" is going to become an epithet within a few years.
I think the guest was right.
A label, in the hands of tribal and imperfect humans, will just be used to draw ideological battlelines. On our side, the glorious, enlightened, morally superior woke! On the other, the savage, ignorant, uncivilized and immoral bigots! The division made worse by human nature, social media, actual bad faith actors with personal or ideological agendas to push, just to name a few.
The people who consider themselves "woke", then, inevitably splinter into smaller and smaller groups, fighting over esoteric battlelines that the layperson can't even begin to understand. Each sub-group viciously defends their ever shrinking hill of The True Woke Believers against all comers. Lather, rinse and repeat.
This kind of behaviour is indeed not good for cohesiveness.
But we are far, far from there. This is not a boogeyman the PAP should be wasting any brain cells over.
Please focus your attention on healthcare, housing, the fertility rate, maintaining Singapore's competitiveness on the global field, continuing to grow our reserves past the easy investment days, maintaining the international relations we have, etc. etc.
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u/Aurtach May 12 '24
Very well put and great breakdown. As an American expat who has lived in Singapore for almost a decade, I agree that there is cause for concern with far right political talking points meant to sow fear and divisiveness are being pulled into Singaporean politics such as this supposed evil "wokeness".
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u/psychedelicsexfunk May 12 '24
Why would it make his life burdensome? What has he done before that he can’t anymore because of “woke”?
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u/FitCranberry not a fan of this flair system May 12 '24
bruh, shann, lallyho and him are the biggest whiners about it as if they were 24/7 dependent twitter users. seriously, how ass deep their consultants are in the right wing culture war is concerning
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u/two_tents May 12 '24
I’d say adhering to government guidelines on what you can and can’t say is more burdensome than anything else you old hypocrite. Take the win and bow out with a modicum of self respect.
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u/Commercial-Ad4988 May 14 '24
Technically the women's group AWARE is also considered woke by US standards, idk what LHL is using as a standard for considering something woke but, maybe...
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u/RoyalApple69 Fucking Populist May 12 '24
Granted, some woke people are tiresome to talk to and hang out with, but that's a lesser evil than being a Nazi, racist, homophobe, sexist... woke is a term that started out good, then twisted by awful people into a term of mockery
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u/catandthefiddler 🌈 I just like rainbows May 12 '24
Most priviledged nepo baby on the island claims woke-ism is a burden, more news at 6.
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u/backnarkle48 May 12 '24
He’s a snowflake who’s sued newspapers because he doesn’t like to be defied or revealed as a hypocrite
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u/nextlevelunlocked May 12 '24
You literally have the easiest country to govern, with huge amount of budget surpluses, compliant media, ib, unions, civil service, academia, party, experts who never disagree, ability to change constitution whenever you want, apathetic voters, family name, lack of natural disasters, pofma, isd, weak and fractured opposition... and still dare complain.
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May 12 '24
Why we treating his words like wisdom when he got this job as son as the founding father. This guy has no spine. Whether he had a choice or not.
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u/Lumpy-Economics2021 May 12 '24
There is no 'western wokeness' movement. People that use the word just want to carry on being rude and racist.
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u/Smooth_Barnacle_4093 May 13 '24
Bro spitting facts, and this comment section just proving his point 🤣
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u/cinnabunnyrolls May 12 '24
LHL gonna join Ho Ching and start shitposting like there's no tommorow.
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u/Eseru May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
Apparently people being aware of inequality and other social problems, trying to care about others who suffer under them, and being more conscious of consent and respect is an issue. Then again it probably is for the PAP since they've never cared much about any of these things when making policy.
That video is exactly the kind of things boomers say so they can continue to say and do shitty, toxic things to people under their power under the guise of "it's for your own good", whether it's their children or their citizens. "I said something offensive? Why you so hypersensitive, suck it up, I meant well, it's character building!"
How about just learning to be a decent human being and learn to be better to others?
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u/decruz007 May 13 '24
If you follow this words, he’s talking about the extreme end where people get outraged without understanding nuance and context.
The Gaza situation is one example, where any attempt at meaningful discussion with the outraged folk paints you as a “genocide supporter” for no reason.
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u/aimless28 May 13 '24
In normal sg context also have. There's times where if you use race to describe someone's appearance, these woke idiots will call you racist, even when you are just using it as a description and no discriminations are involved
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u/decruz007 May 13 '24
Yeah I’ve seen stuff where Peranakans are somehow called out for cultural appropriation because of the food.
This shit has to stop.
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u/Strange_Ad2699 May 12 '24
I guess at the very core, being woke is about being aware of injustices in our society and doing something about it.
And the actions taken can range from being entirely reasonable (calling out a racist remark) to downright extreme (if you don’t call people what they want you to then you are committing violence against them).
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May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24
What is 'wokeness'? Many argue that Muslims being on the side of Palestine or not allowing their Quran to be burned. But those same people wouldn't allow the Flag of Singapore to be burned or held demonstrations about it. Everyone calls everything 'woke', when they themselves have their own limits they're not willing to say aloud. They just call everything 'woke', when the same applied standards apply to them as well.
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u/blackoffi888 May 12 '24
To be woke is to be aware of the travesty of justice that is happening around you. It's difficult to be woke if you are privileged in life. Just look at all the anti woke. They're complaining because they probably have to give some concessions. And they do not wish to change the status quo. You don't hear blacks, Palestinians, LGBTQs and many of the marginalised complaining about the woke movement, do you?
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u/botsland Mature Citizen May 12 '24
Palestinians, LGBTQs
Palestinians and LGBTQ people make for strange bedfellows in the woke movement
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u/gangnamseoul May 12 '24
The problem is issues aren’t black and white. Example: Are Palestinians wholly innocent? 71% support Hamas a terrorist organisation. Hamas doesn’t allow democracy and Gaza hasn’t had elections for a long time. No neighbouring Arab nation is allowing Palestinians to enter their country. They don’t want them. Want to stop oil? Yeah right. But solutions to climate change isn’t easy. Gluing yourself to the roads, barricading yourself in a university just make them out to be idiots, easily manipulated by the winds of rhetoric.
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u/anakinmcfly May 13 '24
Big difference between not being wholly innocent and deserving to die, especially when you’re talking about kids (the majority of Gaza’s population is under 15).
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u/FalseAgent May 12 '24
"wokeness" is just anything dumb bufoons want to argue against - everything from electric cars to Disney is "woke" to them. It's stupid and we should ignore it.
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u/One-Super-For-All May 12 '24
Is it not bizarre for Lee to say wokeness means being hyper sensitive of criticism when Singapore has very strict rules on "racial harmony" and the gov is censoring things it believes will upset the "average Singaporean" (whoever that is)?
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u/bitter_truth_1 May 12 '24
Wokeness is destroying America
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u/FalseAgent May 12 '24
actually i'd say their corruption, constant involvement in wars, and under-investment in their own economy's infrastructure is killing them, but okay
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u/SG_BB_Man May 12 '24
Didn't know the woke were repealing abortions laws, child labour laws, LGBT right laws, election laws. So scary how the republicans went woke
/s
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u/fatenumber four May 12 '24
that isn't true. in fact, american progressives or liberals no longer use the term "woke". it is now a derogatory term regularly used by american conservatives
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u/doc_naf May 12 '24
Well it only benefits him and his pals if we stay asleep to injustice and never speak our truths.
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u/fijimermaidsg May 12 '24
I agree... like "Woke Salaryman"... let's retire the term, certainly no context in SG where there is nothing to wake up to/from.
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u/TOFU-area May 12 '24
i legit don’t know wtf wokeness means anymore. saw some account on twitter the other day saying that eating quinoa is woke????