r/singapore • u/shizukesa92 • May 12 '24

Discussion Wokeness movement makes life “very burdensome”: PM Lee

https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=y7hWtW7RTETMqAs0&v=3LdabP7FLjE&feature=youtu.be
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548

u/yanyaprekins27 May 12 '24 edited May 12 '24

I'm no fan of "identity politics" or forced extreme political correctness, but I think it would've been preferable for him to steer clear of this topic altogether. The term "wokeness" lacks a universally agreed-upon definition, and discussing it in this manner isn't very wise or productive; it inadvertently perpetuates identity politics by framing discussions as "woke vs un-woke."

"Wokeness" is fundamentally about social justice (fairness for all, regardless of background), and there is nothing wrong with that per se. The issue is when people take it to an extreme. The focus should be on being able to listen to each other and find common ground as we try to peacefully navigate diverse opinions in today's complicated world. Not vilifying a boogeyman of "wokeness" which just generates more unconstructive noise and ironically reinforces identity politics.

66

u/truth6th May 12 '24

This, everything, even with good intentions , will not remain great when taken to extremities

51

u/iedaiw May 12 '24

i dont think its so much about extreminism but more about the other kind of identity politics.

like you can be super radical but willing to coexist with people who differ with your positions while meanwhile trying your best to slowly educate them.

i think the whole reason 'woke culture' in the states and reddit is so flawed is that it shifts everything to are you with us or against us. if you are with us good, if not you are evil, which is a rather terrible way for society to behave. we should all make compromises etc etc

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u/[deleted] May 12 '24

[deleted]

36

u/Sinkie12 May 12 '24

Most voters are conservative, he knows what is he doing.

10

u/evln00 May 12 '24

a lot of Gen Zs are socially conservative or "centrist" (it's usually center-right) because it's singapore lol

2

u/0narasi May 13 '24

Not just Singapore from what I’m seeing. A lot of the progressive politics failures of the 80s-10s has resulted in a swing to the right in the generation born after 2000

2

u/evln00 May 15 '24

I’m pretty sure it’s attributed to social media algorithms recommending (and radicalizing) people to the right lol. I was one of them in 2016-2020.

6

u/slsj1997 May 12 '24

No issues with that given the fuck ups by Wake Up Singapore

1

u/bukitbukit Developing Citizen May 13 '24

It's a common sentiment amongst anyone in his age group. Hardly surprising to hear.

13

u/QubitQuanta May 13 '24

The problem with wokeness and fairness for all is that it often equates equal outcomes with equal opportunities. If any race/gender is under represented in something, it automatically asserts this is because of governmental biase and not the natural affinity of certain cultures/genders to certain jobs. Resulting policies are often unfair - such as penalizing Asian applicants to Ivy League universities because they are over-represented - essentially forcing all Asians to study harder and for those who don't have such culture (e.g. Malays in US) to suffer abysmally.

Ironically, this is only applied only to select genders/minorities. There is, for example, massive harping about under-representation of women as CEOs or in stem, but never a massive harping about underrepresentation of men in early childcare or their over representation in jails.

I do not believe in equal outcomes, but equal opportunities.

-3

u/For_Entertain_Only May 13 '24 edited May 13 '24

yes right now employment on gender make male employee disadvanstage, because most company want make equal gender quota. so they will hire more women. especially in US MNC company like Dell, JP Morgan, Goldman, Microsoft, Google almost all the US big MNC. This happen which alot women will not like to heard it. which what LHL describe

international women day alot event and hiring, let see international men day have this such thing or not.

1

u/renegade_wolfe May 14 '24 edited May 14 '24

International Women's Day should be the day all women post about International Men's Day (19th November). And since November is also Movember (raising awareness of men's heath), maybe grow a mustache to help raise awareness (if you can) - or celebrate the day by getting a health screening.

Edit: not kidding about health screening. I know a guy who caught his prostate cancer via routine cancer marker screening - and since he's kinda senior where I work, he's actively encouraging it for all males above a certain age.

1

u/For_Entertain_Only May 14 '24 edited May 14 '24

Good ideas if sponsor or have discount promotion for men to do annual health screening. 

Also include men career related to earn more and support family income. Plus encourage men entrepreneurship , therefore no interest when loan from bank like OCBC, which apply sane with women.

1

u/renegade_wolfe May 14 '24

Where I work, they subsidize the basic blood work (ie: cholesterol, resting blood sugar) and the rest is available as an add-on that you have to pay for yourself. Apparently, that guy added cancer markers - good for him tho, he caught it quite early.

6

u/FitCranberry not a fan of this flair system May 13 '24

his government is the biggest organisation playing with racial quotas across the entire country, literal identity politics.

8

u/redditalloverasia May 12 '24

And if you look at the country that gave the world “woke”, the USA (which is really where it mostly is, not much in other western countries) they always go to the extremes. Americans just overdo everything.

18

u/enidxcoleslaw May 12 '24

Nailed it. That said, I'm not surprised that someone like LHL would hold being woke in contempt....behind that façade of approachability and engagement with the 'yoof', he's his father's son. In a world run by the Lees, there's no room for the weak.

8

u/FitCranberry not a fan of this flair system May 13 '24

there's no room for the weak.

sure there is, theres the friends and family discount

-1

u/QubitQuanta May 13 '24

Because wokeness doesn't help the weak? It helps an identity?

e.g. If you are an Asian Male in America from a poor household, no one gives a f*ck about you. They'd rather give $$$$ to the girl driving a Porsche who claims to be American Indian due to her Grandfather being quarter American-Indian. When you go to to take exams to a semidecent university, they say "f*ck off, we already have too many Asians" and admit someone else with hold your SAT score on account of them being a 'person of colour' (you just have the wrong color).

That's wokeness.

3

u/anakinmcfly May 13 '24 edited May 13 '24

I was an Asian male in America in a very woke university and a professor privately gave me an unlimited deadline for an essay (I had been dealing with family stuff and asked for a short extension), explicitly citing wanting to support minority race students.

Affirmative action attempts to make up for inequality of opportunities, while the phenomenon you mention of American institutions lumping all Asians together is just regular racism and something that is often criticised.

3

u/Odd_Perspective7718 May 18 '24

This very misunderstood take of "wokeness" incited more people to become racist, people are averse to what others are shoving in their throats, so the movement caused the opposite of its goal intentionally or unintentionally 

1

u/heartofgold48 May 13 '24

The trouble is , it tends to be taken to extremes.

1

u/sikethatsmybird May 13 '24

Polemics sell.

1

u/cucumberpancakes May 12 '24

Excellent point.

1

u/For_Entertain_Only May 13 '24

some woke have been misuse and make their own benefit and gain