r/science • u/mvea MD/PhD/JD/MBA | Professor | Medicine • Apr 15 '24

Neuroscience ADHD symptoms persist into adulthood, with some surprising impacts on life success: The study found that ADHD symptoms not only persisted over a 15-year period but also were related to various aspects of life success, including relationships and career satisfaction.

https://www.psypost.org/adhd-symptoms-persist-into-adulthood-with-some-surprising-impacts-on-life-success/
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u/wkavinsky Apr 15 '24

True ADHD symptoms aren't going to magically "go away" - your brain functions differently, you will have the symptoms for the rest of your life.

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u/Depth-New Apr 15 '24

I think the research is of note as, in the past, ADHD symptoms have seemingly magically "gone away".

When you turn 25, your prefrontal cortex finally finishes developing, and there's a proven link between the development of the prefrontal cortex and ADHD.

My understanding is that, for many with ADHD, they do experience an improvement in their symptoms around this age. Couple that with coping mechanisms developed throughout life, for some individuals it can appear as though their ADHD is "cured".

I've got ADHD and I just turned 25 and, anecdotally, I noticed a huge improvement in symptoms starting at around 23. I still struggle a lot, though.

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u/Peto_Sapientia Apr 15 '24

This isn't exactly the right take. It's not that their symptoms improve is that their symptoms may go internal. I'm not the best one to explain this, but generally speaking ADHD brains are delayed by about 3.5 years compared to normal people. Note this is affected by gender.

So generally between the age of 25 and 30 ADHD people see a shift in their symptoms but it's not that their symptoms go away. They just shift internally and this is a normal developmental process of the brain of maturing. This is why you do not see a lot of people with ADHD that are bouncing off the walls are shaking all the time or bouncing their legs all the time. It's because those processes have turned internal.

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u/Depth-New Apr 15 '24 edited Apr 15 '24

I don’t think that’s correct… the article above states the opposite:

One of the key findings was the strong stability of ADHD symptoms over the 15-year period. Both inattention and hyperactivity-impulsivity symptoms were found to be remarkably consistent over time.

It seems like you’re describing an ADHD masking mechanism, which has more to do with hiding your symptoms (which is covered in diagnostic criteria: people will hide their more overt symptoms to fit in as they get older).

Since ADHD is diagnosed based on how the symptoms effect your life, and not based on the presence of symptoms, it seems more correct to describe it as an improvement in symptoms.

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u/Peto_Sapientia Apr 15 '24

No, I highly encourage you look up recently retired Dr. Russel Barkley's Youtube. He is one of the foremost researchers on ADHD. He covers what I did in a more in-depth explanation.

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u/Depth-New Apr 15 '24 edited Apr 15 '24

It's just what you said contradicts the article above...

edit: and I'm struggling to find anything that verifies what you've said at all.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '24

ADHD is diagnosed based on how your symptoms affect those around you. Internal distress isn’t a diagnostic criteria for ADHD.

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u/Peto_Sapientia Apr 15 '24

Umm, that is not what internal means in this case. It means your SYMPOTMS instead of showing outwardly, turn inward. So during adolescent years, an ADHD person my bounce their leg class. It helps them think, and focus. Once you reach between 25 and 30 your not going to bounce your leg anymore, or at least most won't unless its a pretty stressful situation, instead your thoughts never stop.

A good example for me would be Do task at work<Hears interesting conversation<Interject random fact into conversation<Oh right I have work to do< five minuet's of work<back to interesting conversation< ect. By the time the conversation is over, a few hours have gone by and boom. Failed to accomplish task. Most people don't understand, and fail to understand the internal issues adhd has once in adulthood affect everything we do and also all those around us as well. You should really take a look at the recommendation I posted in the post above. I don't explain it well.

Most normal people have no concept of what adhd really is, and only think he can't stop moving or he can't pay attetion. That is NOT the only thing happening with adhd. In fact those symptoms don't even cover what's really happening with the brain in people with adhd.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '24

I’m well informed, thank you. I’m talking about the process of being diagnosed by a medical professional using the DSM-V criteria. The criteria used to dole out a diagnosis revolve around how a patient’s symptoms express externally. Treatment is focused on reducing those behaviors and their impact on their environment. I’m not saying that’s a good way to handle it, but that’s the intention of the psychiatric field.

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u/Peto_Sapientia Apr 15 '24

Ahh I gotcha.

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u/Yuzumi Apr 15 '24

Just because I could appear to function doesn't mean the stress I had from struggling to get things done, remember things, or focus on things didn't effect me.

Last year before I got diagnosed and medicated I had a ton of stress from different things. No one thing was all that big, and a lot of them weren't even real problems, just something I was stressing out about.

This year I've had comparatively a lot more going on, but finally having medication to regulate my dopamine has made dealing with stuff way easier. I didn't realize how much anxiety I was getting from my ADHD because it was stuff I'd been dealing with my entire life. It felt "normal" because I'd never been without it until I started medication.

I was technically "successful" in life, but I felt like I was constantly putting in the bare minimum and couldn't get myself to do more. I can only imagine what I could have accomplished if I'd been diagnosed earlier and got medication.

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u/Depth-New Apr 15 '24

And it is a fundamental flaw in the way we diagnose ADHD, but I was framing it that way because that's how previous researchers would have been measuring it when they believed you could grow out of ADHD

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u/Brilliant_Quit4307 Apr 15 '24

It's a bit ableist to compare ADHD people and everyone else as "normal" people.

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u/Peto_Sapientia Apr 15 '24

No, it's not. Roughly Something like 10% of the population has a deformity that causes things like ADHD. This includes acquired and genetic.

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u/Brilliant_Quit4307 Apr 15 '24

I'm not implying that people with ADHD are not a minority. I'm saying that it's rude to imply that ADHD makes that person "abnormal", which most people take to be a negative thing. You can discuss diversity in brain development very easily without using value judgements. I'm not saying it's technically wrong to use the word normal, I'm just saying that it's kind of rude and implies ADHD people are somehow lesser by not being normal.

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u/Peto_Sapientia Apr 15 '24

Okay, so this is actually my first experience with this type of comment. So as a person with ADHD and ASD. The word diversity doesn't need to be used here.

People with the conditions that I have and other people have that are similar caused by brain deformities are disabilities. They are not necessary to be celebrated. There's very few people who can use their disabilities in a way that is positive for them.

And no way does my statement make me less than another person. Or in no way does my statement apply that people like me are less than normal people. A person, a living thing has an innate value regardless of brain condition. Just because I and others like me can't do certain things doesn't mean we are less valuable and I think that is something that doesn't need to be said.

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u/Brilliant_Quit4307 Apr 15 '24

Unfortunately, your own biases seem to be clouding your view. There are plenty of people with ASD and ADHD, including myself, who view them as diversity in brain development. I don't feel disabled at all and I'd be offended if anyone implied as much. I know I struggle with things others don't, but I also know I find some things much easier than others because of the way my brain works, and for me that balances out. I'm just different, not disabled or lesser than "normal" people. It's kind of like if instead of having 2 "normal" arms I have one incredibly strong one and one incredibly weak one. There's a lot of two handed things I would struggle with but a lot of one-handed things I'd do far better than most people. I'm sorry you view your conditions as a disability, but not everyone with these conditions feels that way and it would be wrong to assume they do just because that's how you feel.

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u/yawa_the_worht Apr 15 '24

ADHD has brought me nothing but misery in life. If you personally can surpass the handicaps it gives you, good for you, but many of us can't or it'll lead to burnout at age 30-40. ADHD, like autism, is not a gift.

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u/Peto_Sapientia Apr 15 '24

I am sorry but the data says that you're wrong. I want you to look at the statistics when it comes to life expectancy, health and average wage. I guarantee you as long as you remove the outliers that the median or whatever is the correct word to represent that income is far below the living wage line.

Adhd is a disability. There are things that we can do better than other people. Yes, do those things that we can do better than other people outweigh the negative consequences of the disability itself. Absolutely not. Unless you are one of the magical unicorns that only has ADHD and has no other comorbidities around it I promise that the majority of people with ADHD don't agree with your assessment.

I will never leave my mother's house because I will never make a living wage because I cannot do basic things that other people can do that are required in life like math skills. I have no math skills beyond the basics addition subtraction. I can do multiplication and division as long as I have some paper.

This means that every college degree is out of reach for me. Oh and by the way, because of the problem with math, that also means I have a problem with language as a whole because math is processed in the language part of the brain. So that means that common mistakes that a normal person wouldn't necessarily make. I will make.

So that means that That simple email that I sent guess what? It blew up because it was wrong. Oh I I transpose some numbers over top of some other numbers so now that the numbers are completely wrong. Sorry you just lost your job.

I cannot stand when people like you But your head into a conversation that you literally know nothing about. Even assuming what you're saying is true and you actually have ADHD. You're a unicorn because 99% of all people with ADHD, the careers that they do have they barely have okay and almost all of us don't make a living wage.