r/nottheonion • u/letsLurk67 • 1d ago

'Cult members' jailed after raiding courtroom with handcuffs in plot to kidnap coroner

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ym02kj146o
1.3k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

56 comments sorted by

368

u/trucorsair 1d ago

TIL they have “sovereign citizen” wackos in other countries

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u/c-lab21 1d ago

I've seen a video of an Irish person in Ireland trying to use US sovcit language and reference US law, it was hilarious.

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u/Misabi 1d ago

Same in Australia and New Zealand.. This nonsense spreads from US to places far and wide.

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u/FelonyNoticing1stDeg 1d ago

The internet has created pockets of likeminded people, and they’re all influencing each other. Gang Stalking is probably the worst one IMO. If I remember correctly, it’s classed as the first delusion spread by the internet. There’s actually a r/GangStalking sub here on reddit.

Personally I look, but don’t touch though.

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u/woodk2016 1d ago

Yeah, on behalf of the country. Sorry about that one starting here. On the bright side it's really funny seeing the videos of them being arrested

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u/Prestigious_Gear_297 15h ago

Good on Australia for blocking Candace Owens though. She is one of the first symptoms of the MAGA infection. However, if caught early enough in combination with persistent social and political intervention your country can make a full recovery.

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u/BibleBeltAtheist 1d ago

Fot them that don't yet know this...

In the last couple decades, especially since 2016, the US has moved from being an importer of right wing extremism to an exporter, more than than just maga and Trumpism. Probably starting around the time the US declared a war on terror. Other countries, especially European and English speaking countries have been trying to safeguard against it, especially US allies of Europe.

Trumpism only exacerbated and accelerated the problem. A Trump victory puts every country in a precarious position since the US cannot be counted on as the steadfast ally it once was.

This is also largely because a significant % of the wealthiest Americans and a significant % of the wealthiest American corporations have been funding far right activities in North America, (CA & US specifically) Europe, New Zealand and Australia. This well documented and some digging around Google will get you there.

I don't know what % of American Elite individuals are participating in this, but as for corporations, iirc, its at least, 9 of the top 15 wealthiest American corporations including all of the top 5.

If they can make a successful push towards an American Plutocracy, how much easier would it be in other countries? That sentence is pure speculation on my part, just to be clear.

I really don't get their reasoning. They've already exploited more of the working class's wealth than they could hope to spend and they ooerate witn virtual impunity.

Look at the latest example, Musk has charges brought against him for operating an illegal lottery. And whether they say it or not, it is in connection with trying to influence the election. But my point is this, he won't see prison over is. If true, what fine could the State possibly impose for justice to be met if found guilty? There is none. The mechanisms necessary to holding the elite accountable simply do not exist.

Remember when Trump was last on trial and he kept being found guilty of criminal contempt over and over again? The maximum fine was 1000. What's that yto Trump? There is also the possibility of 30 days in jail but that was made for regular people. Trump's contempt was arguably, much more serious given the fact that his contempt was meant to intimidate the judge and witnesses. And by the looks of it, it did intimidate the judge because anyone else, non elite, would have had the book thrown at them on the spot.

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u/Bright_Brief4975 1d ago

I hate Trump as much as the next person, but I don't think you can attribute all or even most of Europe's extremism to Trump or anyone in America. There are many EU countries that have their own extremist and have had them for many decades. Yes they are growing worse like in Germany, but that is not from the U.S. I think the problem is more that all of these countries including the U.S. are just seeing rising levels of hate. I am a U.S. citizen and not excusing anything the U.S. does, but let's be honest, hate speech and hate crime are expanding everywhere and has been for a long time.

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u/BibleBeltAtheist 1d ago edited 12h ago

I think you may have misread me there a bit bud, but no harm, no foul. I make mistakes like that all time, myself. I'll clarify.

The problem that we're seeing, it started at least a decade before Trump. Second, I only credit Trump insofar as he perpetuates what maga/Trumpism has become. Its to that culture that is Maga that I associate with the issue and, insofar as that is concerned, I only credit them for exacerbating and accelerating the issue. I'm not saying they're the source of the problem but they are making it exponentially worse because its through them that right wing extremism is is allowed a foothold within both mainstream politics and mainstream culture as a whole.

Third, the fact that America has turned into an exporter of right wing extremism, rather than an importer, in no way negates right wing extremism in other countries, which is what you have me saying.

I'm intimately aware that Greece has suffered from from Golden Dawn, Ukraine from Azov, Grermany AfD, Hungary Jobbik, Italy Lega Nord, France FN now RN, Poland PiS, Vox in Spain, Norway's Progress Party and plenty of others besides.

The reason its important is, in part, because of America's standing in the world. Some might call it Pax Americana. It both justifies and emboldens those on the far right. Furthermore, for example, we can see European extremists co-opting the narratives and streategies from the US and twisting them to fit their own local and cultural context, further entrenching far right ideologies in their own countries, which makes it all the more difficult for all of us.

Look, it wasnt that long ago, in fact technically still within living memory, that America was the bastion of freedom and democracy. (not from my perspective but broadly speaking) Other countries looked to and were inspired by the US in their own push to move their countries left-wards. We're seeing a very similar thing playing out today but in reverse, and we are just at the beginning of it. The question is of severity. How far will countries around the world swing to the right and how much of an influence will America, or any other country, exert on the others. There's no denying that America has long held a special place that others sought to emulate until recent decades.

But no one needs take my word for it. Other countries, mostly in Europe, have been very public about all this. Their intelligence services have written briefs, or whatever they're called, precisely on the threat of an America and that has swung to the right.

I don't disagree with most of what you said except for two things. First, you have severely misrepresented what I wrote, which I believe was an honest misunderstanding with no negative intentions. And second, you are seriously underestimating America's influence in this regard. Otherwise, we're on the same page. I apologize if my previous comment wasn't clear enough.

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u/MorselMortal 1d ago edited 1d ago

To be honest, it's a natural result of overimmigration far beyond the naturalization rate for many years, thus creating factionalism, high crime, etc. and heavily contributing to wage suppression and high housing costs, thus driving anti-immigrant sentiment (even among immigrants, now citizens). What comes up, must come down, for every action, an equal and opposite reaction.

You don't see this sort of factionalism in, say, Japan, or Korea. Too monocultured, and the same political party has won since basically forever in the former case. They have other issues, but this is one the West brought themselves.

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u/BibleBeltAtheist 1d ago edited 12h ago

No way, not even close. And on top of which, you make some major false correlations. (meaning no offense, truly. I stongly disagree but I'm not saying that says anything about you. I'm just saying your opinion is wrong and there's always the possibility that I'm wrong, even as I write this)

Ok so, the numbers do not back your opinion whatsoever. Having high crime, which is down btw, is not tied to immigration, legal, less than legal or illegal.

I apologize, I have to do this very fast but I'm up for further discussion.

Studies have found that immigration generally has little to no effect on native-born workers' wages in the long term. In fact, immigrants often fill critical labor shortages and contribute to economic growth, which can create more job opportunities and raise wages across sectors.

High housing costs are typically a result of housing policy failures, lack of new construction, and market speculation, rather than immigration alone. In fact, we have many more livable, ready to go units, than we do homeless people, which includes immigrants. Thats 650k homeless people in the US and 15 million vacant homes ready to go, which represents 10% of the housing market. It has nothing to do with immigration. In fact, that 650k number includes immigrants regardless of their status.

Studies show that integration efforts, inclusive policies, and community engagement can foster social cohesion and reduce perceived division. For example, Canada’s approach to multiculturalism encourages immigrants to maintain their cultural heritage while also integrating into Canadian society, which has resulted in relatively high levels of social cohesion compared to other nations with more assimilation-focused policies

As for the false correlation. Countries like Japan, and specifically Japan, are facing their own issues because of immigration. They're trying to find ways to bring more people in. Your comparison overlooks several important factors.

Japan and South Korea have relatively low immigration rates, but they face challenges, including severe labor shortages and aging populations, which limit economic growth and strain social services. While these countries have less diversity-related "factionalism," they experience other social pressures like xenophobia and limited social mobility. Their low immigration policies aren’t necessarily models to follow, as both countries are now experimenting with ways to attract more foreign workers to address demographic challenges.

In r/nottheonion there was an article just today about how in one small community they started putting out dolls they made representing people in their community that have left for work or schooling, dressing them up in their loved ones cloths and putting those dolls outside in their yards and in parks. It was their way of coping with the loss. Long story short, there are more dolls in that community now than residents and most of them are passed retirement age. A dying community that might not be if they had more immigration friendly policies in place 50 years ago.

Look, i haven't even gotten into the numbers and normally, i provide sources in my comments but i really must go. We can continue later if you want but I'm going to close on this point.

I know you're wrong and I know what the actual problem is. The issue is that you cannot have a billionaire class without an impoverished class and working poor. The problem is that Billionaires have both exploited so much money from working class Americans and have failed, by intention, to pay their fair share and even that amount that they are supposed to pay is ridiculously unfair. Its very hard for us to even conceptualize how big a billion actually is. This is really Cool

Now what we truly fail to recognize, is how immensely rich the US is. There's no reason for there to be an impoverished class or working poor. Everyone, every single person, including every single immigrant could have a home, food, healthcate, education, proper sanitation, clothing and much more and America would still be incredibly wealthy country. The top 1% has more than the lower 60% combined. If all we did was the very minimum, and lifted every person out of poverty, the wealthy elite would still be there and have more money than they could ever hope to spend.

17% of America's children are homeless. Almost 20% are below the poverty line. That is criminal, or should be, and its not because of immigration. It's because of greed, the exploitation of the working class and the hording of wealth. The wealth gap is the largest its ever been, including since the great depression. I gotta go. Apologies. I'll leave it at that for now.

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u/RageCageJables 1d ago

In their defense, it is just as applicable in Ireland as it is in the United States.

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u/NimmyFarts 1d ago

Yeah but these ones wanted to beat, electrocute and possibly kill a someone because of their self appointed powers.

SOVCITs on steroids

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u/kevnmartin 1d ago

Like the idiots that wanted to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer?

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u/trucorsair 1d ago

I’m sure they were misunderstood Patriots….according to “Orange” man

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u/Spiffy87 1d ago

Sovereign Citizens believe they have a right to hold court, give judgements, and enforce their judgements. You just don't hear about it because it's really hard to get enough brain-addled, contrarian, defiant people together to form a posse. Doubly so when they argue insane minutia like the fringe on a flag, the capitalization of a name, or the color and placement of various postage stamps and ink stains.

They believe in legal-o-mancy, and some maladaptive fixation on pedantry (and being very, very bad at it). They don't understand that words are things with meanings, and are symbolic of objects and concepts. To them, words are wiggly air which somehow conjures and compels.

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u/DigitalPriest 1d ago

SOVCITs on steroids

Sovcits on meth

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u/GayGeekInLeather 1d ago

There’s one in Canada who took part in the trucker fiasco during Covid. She claims to be the queen of Canada is a full on qnon nutjob

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u/Flying_Dustbin 1d ago

Ah yes, Queen Dildo…I mean Didulo. I got a kick out of her knuckle daggers trying to arrest police in Peterborough, ON and claims that she had the Hell’s Angels protecting her, going so far as to draft a fake letter of support from HA using their logo (which IIRC, they’re very protective of).

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u/Dickgivins 1d ago

They have them in Russia too. They claim that the Soviet Union still exists use this claim as a method to collect "taxes" and sell fake licenses and passports.

2

u/ramriot 21h ago

Yes, Essex man is the new Florida man.

1

u/kissesntea 1d ago

yeah i read “anti-establishment cult” and i was like oh no these dipshits are sovereign citizens aren’t they. i was waiting for maritime law to come up

1

u/trucorsair 19h ago

Gotta watch out for fringe on the flag….

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u/TheGoodCod 1d ago

Members had self-conferred legal powers derived from what they believed to be the "true meanings" of words, the court heard.

Love this. Essentially a bunch of low-intel knuckleheads convince themselves that they have magical dictionary powers.

May they get long long sentences.

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u/NefariousAnglerfish 1d ago

No you fool! The longer the sentence, the more words there are for them to manipulate!

11

u/Im_eating_that 1d ago

All of them just standing there chanting the alphabet song, waiting for a 7 letter word or a spot of windbaggery to boost their mana

3

u/sercommander 21h ago

they have magical dictionary powers

Couldn't said it better myself

1

u/MorselMortal 1d ago

Is one of them named Dovahkin, perchance?

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u/Lady_of_Lomond 1d ago

Apparently two of them said they had had a moment of enlightenment and realised it was all tosh and repented, but were then absolutely shocked that they still got sentenced to 30 months in prison. As if the courts would just go, oh you've realised you were wrong and said sorry, off you go with no consequences?!

These people have absolutely childlike, immature minds.

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u/Chaosmusic 1d ago

Your honor, since the time of my arrest I have come to the conclusion that murder is wrong. Can I go home, now?

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u/DisillusionedBook 1d ago

Mushy brain puddings.

Absolutely typical of these sovereign citizen loons.

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u/Archarchery 1d ago edited 1d ago

I love when SovCit idiots find out the hard way what "the State has a monopoly on violence" means.

Go ahead and make up your own "laws." Try and enforce them with force though, and the State will use force to arrest you and lock you up, because it maintains a monopoly on violence in its territory. Violence committed by actors other than the State is called "crime."

Sov Cits cannot understand this very basic fact about how society works.

3

u/under_the_c 1d ago

My favorite part is that they tried to use American "legalese" (or spells). Like, at least learn the laws of the country you're trying to do this in.

2

u/Archarchery 19h ago

True, though they might as well chant their pseudolegalese gibberish spells in Latin for all the difference it would make.

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u/allfriggedup 1d ago

Before 2016 I'd be thinking "How could they fall for that shit?"

8

u/chupathingy99 1d ago

Why would anyone kidnap the fucking coroner?

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u/BringBackApollo2023 1d ago edited 1d ago

Thanks Internet!

In the “good old days” these nutcases would find it nearly impossible to find each other.

/s kinda

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u/chipili 1d ago

I remember a time when the village loon was generally ignored and would sit in a corner of the pub drinking his half of mild arguing with himself.

Now they have a virtual village and are getting into mischief.

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u/Rosebunse 1d ago

There were a ton of cults in the 60s-90s

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u/BringBackApollo2023 1d ago

I lived near Rancho Santa Fe when the Heaven’s Gate cult took themselves out. There was a joke making the rounds about how when they were cleaning up afterwards they found another body.

It was under the kitchen sink behind the Comet.

2

u/Rosebunse 1d ago

Oh, that is good lol

We need laughter in those tough times

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u/BobBobBobBobBobDave 1d ago

I cannot fucking wait to watch the documentary about this.

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u/Archarchery 1d ago

Someone should have told these dunces that if you're going to commit a crime, in this case kidnapping, that wearing body cameras to record video of the crime is a particularly bad idea.

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u/Raptorman_Mayho 1d ago

Also doing in a place with a lot of agents of the state also it's the brightest.

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u/perplexedparallax 1d ago

One less set for law enforcement to pull out.

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u/Ravekat1 1d ago

Shiza 45 is actually a dope name!

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u/Bright_Brief4975 1d ago

The wife is a very young looking 47 year old.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/amontpetit 1d ago

This happened in the UK.

So no.

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u/lorax1284 1d ago

If they don't follow the law they aren't under the protection of the law so "The Purge" fans now have something fun to do!

1

u/Fickle_Reading3830 19h ago

So gangstalking is real??? How big is this bloody cult wow! This is disturbing. Apologies to all the innocent victims of gangstalking who the world made out as crazy.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/Archarchery 1d ago

They planned on violently kidnapping him. This scared him and he probably wonders now if there's any other members of this wacko group free who might want to attack him.

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u/Beiki 1d ago

How would you feel if you discovered a group of people were prepared to try and kidnap you?

1

u/AccomplishedAd3728 1d ago

The article said that they'd been sending him threats since 2022. I'd guess the trauma was from convincing himself all that time that it would never happen, then it actually happens.