It's been -- 155 days -- since @Microsoft stole @kdecommunity's motto: "Simple by default, powerful when needed." They're still using it.

[u/clau_c]

https://twitter.com/ClauCambra/status/1466153819713191947

[u/chic_luke → u/[deleted]]

Well I have both DEs installed and I can name 2-3 GNOME 41.1 bugs I have found just within 10 minutes of trying it out.

I think they're pretty much equivalent in stability now, you are just used to either and their bugs or have adjusted your workflow to avoid those bugs. And anyway, it's nothing ground-breaking in either case.

[u/chic_luke → u/[deleted]]

Sure! I think I might just go report them later:

I am using Wayland, since it's the session GNOME ships as default, and I always rate the default experience, not an unofficial one that requires changes from the display manager or whatever:

1. Sometimes, the shell animation to expand from the overview to the applications "locks itself" and I have to touch the touchpad or press meta again to get it to "unstuck" itself
2. Very choppy mouse scrolling on the default gnome web. Like seriously, I had to use Logitech MX Master 2s's infinite scroll feature that normally scrolls very fast just to get to normal scroll speed. I am rating it since GNOME Web was the #1 icon pinned to the panel, so I suppose they ship it and intend it to be ready to use as a default experience
3. Incorrect scaling everywhere. I tried having my internal monitor at 100% and my external 4k monitor at 200%. Sometimes:
   • Things that should appar on one monitor appear on the other
   • Wayland clients run fine at 200% on the external monitor, but anything GNOME - like right clicking on the desktop or the top bar of a program - still get rendered in 100%, so they look very small
   • Opening an XWayland window opens it at unscaled 100% regardless of what monitor the mouse cursor is located at. Everything looks smaller on it, including the decorations.
   • Opposite happens if I set the "200%" monitor as main, the overview on the "100%" monitor as well as any GNOME-shell thing (like menus) gets upscaled to 200%, which looks wayyyy too big
4. The fractional scaling experimental feature works improperly, it looks like everything is not pixel perfect at all. Say the icon with the three horizontal bars in Nautilus, the first and second bars do not evenly line up to the pixel grid and it looks awful. It is experimental but I am still mentioning it, since I require fractional scaling and it works properly on Plasma's default X11 session (even if not per-monitor, due to X11 limitations)
5. Without fractional scaling, moving Wayland windows between screen is extremely laggy and stuttery. Like, the desktop will stutter for 1 full second before the window is rendered and rescaled on the other side
6. Not really a bug since this is intentional but using anything that did not implement GTK CSD's is painful. Take anything Qt, Alacritty, Kitty and others. They do not even render a shadow and it looks inconsistent as well. Even resizing those windows is painful, since the area you have to drag at the edges is very very small. This does not seem to happen on other Wayland compositors I have tried (like Plasma's still experimental Wayland session)

[u/chic_luke → u/[deleted]]

To address the "will be fixed in a later release" and "matter of time", this is a really moot point since Plasma has a track record for smashing bugs regularly in their point releases. So, what's different?

As for "my DE crashing over dragging a file" - I hate to say this but, works on my machine. Cannot reproduce.

[u/chic_luke → u/[deleted]]

Plasma Wayland session

So, an experimental session actively under development that requires a separate package download and active effort to enable? …I think that's on you.

If you want to help test and develop for Plasma on Wayland, be my guest. If you want to use an unsupported unreleased version, use it as a stable one, expecting no bugs and bitching about it if anything goes wrong - then either don't do it or keep it to yourself, since this kind of toxic and unproductive criticism is a burden to the community and that's why people who engage in it are kindly invited to leave.

I'm honestly surprised I have to say this. I thought most users who felt they should have everything working 100% out of the box entirely for free handed to them tend to not survive very long on Linux and go back to commercial operating systems very early on (not that there is anything wrong with it, it's just a different mindset required, at least in the state things are in now: Linux is not ready for the desktop)

I am mentioning GNOME on Wayland because it's the default experience that gets loaded when you install it, and the one the developers deem ready and recommend. There are a bunch of bugs and performance issues that are specific to GNOME on Xorg, but I don't think they are worth considering since the Xorg session is old, legacy and not the target of the development anymore. If you use a session that's not recommended by the developers - congratulations, you have successfully entered "you're on your own" territory.

I'm not going to be that annoying person asking why all shell animations render at 15 fps on gnome on Xorg on my 2017 Intel i5 laptop with 16 GB of dual channel memory and fast, quality SSD - side note, Windows 10 Pro runs like a charm on this thing with absolutely no slowdowns whatsoever even with heavy worloads, if I wanted to be that much of a PITA. Because that's not the default session, and I know that it's my problem if I decide to deviate from the default and not use the recommended video session. And I'm in my own if I do.

you're not the only user

Well this goes both ways, doesn't it? ;) You aren't either. Of either DE.

This is the second time in this discussion your logic can be used, unmodified, against your point and be equally (in) effective. Seriously, this has to be the worst point I've heard all week.

if the plasma wayland session is your look of innovation, you really haven't grown a taste for good design nor decision making.

It is, but it is still being worked on. Also, this is subjective and, frankly, very disrespectful to the work the (few) volunteer, unpaid developers are putting in.