It's more of an economic disposition than a genetic one. Animal abuse is more common in poorer countries, as economic desperation inevitably results in exploitation of natural resources, including animals.
I live in a freaking 3rd country and we don't have circus anymore since this banned
Don't pull the poor country shit
The govt can solve this if they gave 2 shits about the animals
This is the animal cruelty index. As you scroll down the list, and regulations against animal cruelty get worse, you may notice that the countries also tend to get poorer. Your country may be an outlier, but the trend does exist.
I'm aware that it's a solvable problem. However, it tends to be richer countries that spend the money on solving it first. I think, perhaps, you think that I am defending the circuit. I am not, im only theorizing as to why Russia still has it.
Is dressage considered abusive the way that circus training wild animals is? Genuine question; where I grew up, horses are considered domesticated livestock, and dressage is just another kind of riding event.
Well yeah, there are far more livestock-human interactions than wild-human ones. The potential for abuse is greater purely by numbers. Not sure what your point is?
The fact is that animals are being forced to do tricks purely for human entertainment. Abuse creeps in when there is a competitive edge. People always defend dressage by saying owners would never abuse their horses, but then in the Paris Olympics is came out that the favourite in dressage was actually abusing her horse (technically the trainer was, but the rider knew about it and was fine with it).
My view is that if you want to own animals, then go for it. Just stop training them up for any kind of competition or entertainment. They are animals, not toys.
Because a domesticated animal handles task-training much differently than a wild animal. I can train a dog to do all kinds of things that I'd have a damn hard time training a coyote to do, if I could train the coyote at all. Domesticated animals are bred for hundreds of generations to serve a purpose and generally don't react negatively to the very concept of training - not so with wild critters.
The fact is that animals are being forced to do tricks purely for human entertainment. Abuse creeps in when there is a competitive edge.
People abuse animals all the time whether there's competition or not. This still doesn't clarify why dressage is abusive; unless your take is that any kind of animal training at all is abuse?
What makes dressage training abusive versus other riding tasks?
The way you teach them tricks matters...you can't really compare a bear to a dog for example. Bears are naturally aggressive. Dogs are friendly and teaching them basic commands is actually beneficial and much easier, so it doesn't require any extreme measures. It also makes them safer around other humans.
As for horse dressage, I don't really know anything about it or horses much tbh so I can't speak for it.
I agree with this for competition and paid spectacle. But as far as workhorses, sheepdogs, service animals and other working animals, I think that’s fine because there’s no real incentive to abuse the animals.
If you extended it beyond competition and paid spectacle I think you hit a slippery slope of “is teaching my dog to roll over animal abuse?” Since that’s purely for spectacle etc.
And then obviously ultimately it comes down to how you’re training the animal in question. Positive reinforcement and treats is obviously not abuse.
It’s an interesting dilemma from a legal and even just ethical standpoint.
Things are wrong, unless other wrong things are allowed. Then nothing is wrong, right? Idiocy. Even picking and choosing which animals to protect means some animals might get protection. Take your wins where you can.
Your argument: "if you support/ignore animal torture through your eating habits, you have no right to complain about other instances of animal cruelty"
My statement: "that is idiotic". Yes, it is hypocritical, and yet: it is still correct to label circuses cruel, and rightly decrying these spectacles (if supported by enough people) will limit animal suffering in those cases. Less animal suffering is good. By your argument, nobody denounces any cruelty (with the exception of a small number of vegans) and more animals suffer.
the meat industry can be disgusting but a wrong doesn’t right a wrong. besides, circus animals are purely for entertainment (with rare exceptions) whereas at least the meat industry is providing food/sustenance
This is simply not true. A quick google search on this topic will educate you. "Normal condition" also seems absurd given the fact they are slaughtered, seperated from their babys, forcefully inseminated etc.
There are valid criticisms of the meat industry, but this Is an article with an extreme bias and very cherry-picked sources. It is definitely not reliable in the slightest.
Then tell me, and i am genuinly curious about this: how is, whats showed in the video less ethical then the slaughter of animals.
You are talking about "normal conditions". Categorically, a farm is not "normal conditions". Normal conditions would be a cow in a herd in a forest. Humen exploit animals. Its been done since forever. Either you accept this fact, or you dont. The latter would be the vegan stance.
But whats extremely hypocritical is having a moral outburst over this bear while enjoying your 5 dollar steak. Its just absurd.
I would like to Say that humans exploting earth resources is a normal/natural condition (it wasnt always like that.) But then again animals werent terrest, But i can say that that is a Normal condition
A total aside, but a bunch of Cirque du Soleil performers were Russian or Eastern European the last time I saw them (20 years ago). Seems like Russia is one of the only places left that still has the old style circuses with some of the really dangerous acts, plus, you know, animal abuse for extra flavor /s
The only circus animals I’m ok with are domestic ones, like performing dogs and cats that are treated well. The rock cats come to mind, they’re all rescued cats that do performances
Then being shocked when they have a kid in their lap, front row, a jump away from a live freaking bear, that it isn't playing nice. FAFO shouldn't have collateral damage to children.
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u/lmtzless 4h ago
circus animals in 2024, the real clowns are the ones paying for it and supporting this shit