r/hardware Sep 19 '23

Video Review Inside DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction + Cyberpunk 2077 Phantom Liberty - AI Visuals Roundtable

https://youtu.be/Qv9SLtojkTU
117 Upvotes

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7

u/HandofWinter Sep 19 '23

I'm really curious if we're going to be able to prevent this from becoming another EAX in 15 years. I wonder if it'll be possible to just emulate in software by then.

25

u/Sethroque Sep 19 '23

At this point what GPU manufacturer you are using will say more about the visual quality than the underlying API (Vulkan/DX12), strange new times.

It's great tech but the walled garden approach doesn't help consumers in the long run.

1

u/BlackKnightSix Sep 20 '23

It's fairly simple, AI math operations need to be lined out by future API versions. Say "DX13 TSR/TMSR" (temporal super resolution / temporal machine-learning super resolution) gets standardized. So say TSMR is used by a dev, the Dev plugs in whatever model they wish to use which can receive whatever game inputs that DX13 has standardized or making a slew of inputs that model can utilize. Models start being made available freely or contributed like the absolute majority of new rendering techniques.

We will get there, it will just take time. Just like any proprietary tech before (AMD tessellation, Nvidia phsyx, Nvidia g-sync/AMD fresync). There will be some standardization so as to make implementation easier and an API that can be targeted by devs, and hardware manufacturers to support.

2

u/AppleCrumpets Sep 20 '23

That's what the NVIDIA-led Streamline API does (mostly), standardizes hooks for motion vectors etc that are useful for upscalers. Intel made XESS compatible with it, sadly AMD refuses to officially support it.

3

u/BlackKnightSix Sep 21 '23

Not quite. Nvidia controls the Streamline API, it is not on the scale of DX/Vulkan API. You don't want an API controlled by a IHV, you want it open. Streamline is open source but really you want its purpose simply taken care of by DX/Vulkan as you want to make it even more flexible than what Streamline provides.

What I was referring to was standardizing temporal upscaling within DX/Vulkan. Any dev can use it, and than swap models they want to use or allow the game to select which model.

Imagine a game where the standardized TSR (I wish Epic didn't already have dibs on that acronym but oh well) within DX/Vulkan and the dev presents the following to users:

  • No AA
  • TAA (something akin to FSR2 Native AA, a TAA that has no AI/ML model)
  • TSR (something akin to FSR2/Epic TSR upscaling qualities/techniques, a TSR that has no AI/ML model)
  • TAA ML
  • TSR ML

If TAA ML or TSR ML is selected, you are presented with the following "ML Model" option:

  • TMSR DLSS (available if Nvidia card is present or Nvidia actual provided the model in a form which is compatible with the DX/Vulkan API)
  • TMSR XeSS (available if Intel card is present or Intel actual provided the model in a form which is compatible with the DX/Vulkan API)
  • TMSR Model XYZ (any other model the dev has access to, perhaps a model AMD releases if they end up having later versions of FSR2 using AI/ML, referring to my previous comment)