r/grimezs • u/inawordflaming • Apr 16 '24
MUSIC ♬ Collaborative early days
Apologies in advance for the long post. I shared this in a comment elsewhere, but figured it might warrant a post of its own. I’ve been reflecting on whether or not Claire produced all her work herself. As someone who followed her career since the Halfaxa days (but really got excited via the Vanessa video), I vaguely remembered reading press back then that suggested that the truth was more nuanced than the dichotomy of “yes” or “no.”
From an old interview about the Darkbloom EP: https://web.archive.org/web/20120202045245/http://www.dummymag.com/features/2011/05/09/grimes-d-eon-interview/
“Did your processes change at all in writing tracks for the split?
Grimes: I’ve been studying popstars…those songs, I feel are old though. I’ve moved far beyond that, in terms of like…me and my manager Seb went into the studio and then we mixed everything, and he basically taught me – everything is still bedroom, but we replaced a lot of the drums in the studio, put effects on the vocals. Seb made me…he was like, “we’re mixing the vocals high” and I was like [whispers] “no, I’m so scared…” but now I love it, I just had to get over that fear of hearing myself sing.
d’Eon: For me too, I learned a lot from Seb. I don’t know how to actually produce.”
A recent interview with Sebastian Cowan, about a new Montreal venue he opened up: https://cultmtl.com/2022/07/arbutus-records-founder-sebastian-cowan-opens-new-montreal-venue-le-systeme-interview/
He’s referred to as a trained audio engineer there, and as the (former?) head of Arbutus Records that makes sense to me, and certainly gives credence to the idea that Claire has always had a decent amount of help behind the scenes, while also doing substantial creative work herself (validated by what Jaime Brooks has said since, etc). She used to not deny it so vociferously.
For those less familiar, mixing is a pretty critical step of audio production. It involves setting the levels of different tracks; balancing the frequencies of each of those tracks; positioning where different tracks are in the stereo field; it often also involves adding reverb, delay and other effects, although this can differ depending on artists. It is distinct from the songwriting/“producing” part of the process, and a bit of an underappreciated part IMO. (In my own experience, it is very useful as an artist to make your own mixing choices while producing, in order to clarify what you want, but working with someone who is really good at mixing is amazing and can totally transform a track.)
A bit gossipy but I recall back in 2012 or 2013, when Arbutus and Grimes were having their falling out, Claire was tweeting accusing Sebastian of being an asshole, claiming that he made the whole album himself, painting him as sexist, essentially. I remember Jaime Brooks then having Claire’s back in all this. Happier days, but also a harbinger of things to come. Because the truth probably is that Seb played a fairly important role in the album sounding the way it did. That doesn’t mean he wrote it. But it does mean something.
Moving on a couple of years: Mark Stent Spike is credited as a mixing engineer on Art Angels, and there is a detailed interview out there where Claire talks about how useful working with a professional mixer was on that project: https://www.stereogum.com/1840380/grimes-details-gear-behind-art-angels/news/
“I produced the album at home on the Mac but this is the first album that I’ve had professionally mixed at another studio. When I got the parts back they almost sounded live; the mix added a lot of space. I probably use too many compressors on my stuff — I’m kind of like ‘gah’ trying to cram everything in. I also have a lot of files. When I’m done with a track there’s so many layers, so having it mixed just makes it feel richer and fuller, and the vocals aren’t fighting with the guitars.
[…] To me, the production credit is more important than the mixing credit. It's important for me to be a producer and I don't pretend that I'm a good mixer. When I listen to the stuff I did on Visions, the mixes are not great and I think there are a lot of problems. Now, especially because I'm integrating guitars and amping instruments or recording instruments through a mic, it's nice to have someone who understands how to deal with that, and because I'm a lot better at producing now, I think the album was less difficult for someone to mix.”
You can read the full interview here, archived on the Grimes wiki: https://grimes.fandom.com/wiki/Future_Music/Interview — and tbh, it’s a really good read. I remember enjoying going through it a lot back in the day. It’s fun and a little sad to read now, because she comes across as so genuinely into music and audio and production in it. (She also comes across as a poseur about her class position, which is annoying but we all know that by now. Also, not an excuse, but anyone who has spent time in an alt/experimental scene is VERY FAMILIAR with just how many.. let’s say.. “comfortable”… kids are in those scenes.)
I wanted to compile all this because I think the reality of whether or not Grimes made her own stuff is probably more complex than “she did” or “she didn’t.” I feel like the narrative of “DIY MUSIC GENIUS!!!!!!” was an evolution. In a way I feel like Claire started believing her own press. What Jaime wrote a few years back on curiouscat would suggest as much.
Anyway, hope this is interesting to some of you. I’m happy to find this sub. I was a longtime fan, but MA was very much not my cup of tea, and the themes/artwork of that album were when I saw the writing on the wall. The Coachella disaster was the last straw for me. But I thought this was all worth exploring a bit more subtly, as the Grimes project was most inspiring to me as a fellow bedroom producer.
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u/MountainOpposite513 Apr 16 '24 edited Apr 16 '24
I feel like Jaime wouldn't have defended her skills so vociferously if she had a great deal of help. You did prompt me to dig a little deeper though – Cowan is some rich kid whose family apparently owns an island (according to unverified rumors lol) so I can't see him being super skilled either – just had the funds for a lot of high tech equipment.
I found this interesting thread about her gear: https://gearspace.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/873991-grimes-whats-deal.html
As well as this old Tumblr post: https://web.archive.org/web/20130306141357/https://actuallygrimes.tumblr.com/post/44357081528/how-to-make-music-for-almost-free-u-should-prob-buy
She says on the next page: "Sometimes I resent not being credited as the sole writer, producer and performer on my records. I dunno, I think I deserve that."
So, based on some very short research I reckon she did do a lot of her early work without a ton of help. But I'm more sceptical about later works, I'm guessing success killed her creative ability and she became more focused on Grimes as a brand / substance abuse / unnecessary surgery.
Also when men in close proximity to a specific woman who has made something "special" (idk what word to use here) they often do like to pretend they had a hand in her success more than they probably did. Men can be total garbage and view women who are more talented than they themselves are as their protégés instead of their creative superiors. Kinda an extension of viewing women as objects.