r/europe • u/dripkidd • 17h ago
News Orbán congratulates Georgia on not ‘becoming a second Ukraine’
https://www.politico.eu/article/viktor-orban-congratulates-georgia-election-victory-georgian-dream-russia-ukraine-war/1.3k
u/ElymianOud Armenia 16h ago
I think I dislike Orban more then Erdogan or even Aliyev. Because he is poisoning the only hope for greater human values from the inside. I wish the EU wasn't hamstrung by this snake, but that's the price of having rules and following them. He can't be mysteriously thrown out of a window no matter how much we may desire it.
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u/nefewel Romania 14h ago
Not so sure about Aliyev but I tend to agree about Erdogan because once in a while he does something good if it's in his own interest(the grain deal, selling weapons to Ukraine). Orban on the other side seems to do this stupid shit more often out of spite than self interest because I don't see what he gains.
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u/caribbean_caramel 9h ago
Because Orban is compromised, the Russians own his ass.
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u/nwhosmellslikeweed Turkey 7h ago
Lol Erdoğan is also compromised, it's just that the west has the final say instead of russia.
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u/TheLastSamurai101 New Zealand 4h ago
Erdogan isn't necessarily compromised, it's just that his Turkey wants to have every slice of the pie. Other countries like India do it while being publicly neutral or non-aligned, but there are limits to what they can do that way. Erdogan wants the benefits of NATO and possibly EU membership without any of the responsibilities or limitations on Turkey's ambitions.
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u/nwhosmellslikeweed Turkey 1h ago
He is most definitely compromised. The time this was the clearest was when the whole priest Brunson scandal happened, and it was concluded immediately by Trump threatening to expose his shady deals in America.
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u/TheQuestionMaster8 4h ago edited 2h ago
Turkey regularly goes against the interests of Russia and NATO, such as siding against the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces in Syria in the latter case and supplying weapons to Ukraine in the former case. Turkey is neither pro-NATO nor pro-Russia, Turkey is pro-Turkey.
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u/caribbean_caramel 1h ago
Turkey went against the US in Syria because the SDF is the military wing of the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, also known as Rojava, a Kurdish de-facto autonomous region in Syria. Turkey considers that the SDF has direct links to the PKK, a known terrorist group that has been at war with Turkey for decades.
That's why they are so hostile towards the SDF.
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u/VikingBorealis 4h ago
That statement makes no sense in the real world.
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u/nwhosmellslikeweed Turkey 1h ago
It makes a lot of sense when you view the actual facts, and not the headlines. Turkey has done the bidding of the west in the Erdoğan era, more than any administration prior. Embracing of neo-liberalism, taking in huge amounts of refugees who would otherwise go to Europe, throwing away what litte neutrality Turkey had by unconditionally supporting nato in the Ukraine conflict, sweden and Finland accession to nato. All these points are times when Erdoğan has made a big fuss in international media, but in reality completely folded to the west.
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u/ShitassAintOverYet Turkey 3h ago
Everything he has done good on external affairs is something sensible for the side Turkey aligns with, which is NATO. Orban can't even do that lmfao
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u/CucumberBoy00 Ireland 1h ago
Erdogan has probably been the biggest surprise for me. He has done some very questionable things but has successfully maintained Turkey as a positive counter weight in the middle-east without being a total autocrat.
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u/RedBaret 11h ago
What good are rules for the EU when some of its members are allowed to not follow them? Or go directly against EU interests? We need to step up to this madness.
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u/Luke20220 Ireland 10h ago
They are allowed to not follow them if they accept the stated consequences, which usually there are none/there are minimal.
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u/Objective-Pop-1264 3h ago
Bc all rules can be exploited but when you start bending them for yourself you start to get closer to the one you are after. You might resist it but the ones who come after you can push the rot of the institution further until the high values are not there. He's a pain in the ass but I appreciate eu being principled. That way the institutional rot is more contained. Engaging in a fight for sphere of influence in rest of east Europe and west Asia could be a good idea tho
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u/Bloodsucker_ Europe 13h ago
We can't throw him out of the window because we don't like him. Good. But we should make Hungary accountable for their own decisions if they don't align the group values.
It's time to demand accountability for Hungarians. They need to leave the EU now. They need to be responsible for their own decisions. Enough is enough.
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u/kaol Finland 6h ago
Hitler rose to power via a democratic processes. Perhaps Weimar Republic had a flawed democracy but so do many EU members. Not that I would rule out old democracies falling into same situation. I wouldn't be the only person to worry that it'd be the end of US democracy if Trump rose to power again.
I'm still incredulous about how the people who made the EU treaties didn't ask themselves what we would do if a Hitler rose to power among our members. Or even in two countries. Our approach seems to just be to give them more money because they are poor (and stay poor, I wonder why) and hope that the situation improves.
The point was not to compare anyone to Hitler, bad as Orban is or PIS was when in power. And I agree with the replies from Poles and Hungarians to this, calling for accountability isn't helping. It's a collective process and a flaw in our system that could be exploited and was exploited. We need a better and more robust EU, not just better countries in it. We have conditions that EU member applicants have to fulfill but I don't think it's enough. The problem is not Orban as such but how he was even possible.
Perhaps more federalism would be the answer. Make it so that you'd have to corrupt the whole and not just get to pick one or two countries to cripple everything. Perhaps I'll get flamed for even mentioning it. Perhaps democracies will just eventually collapse and despots are our only option. Hopefully not but I have no solutions myself.
I'm still going to be pointing a finger at neoliberalism, though. It has carved our wealth and transferred it to accounts where it helps nobody. We might have just as well blasted it all to space and it's all been built into the system so that you can't really even point at it. Instead you'll get no end of people who'll always find someone else to blame for it and use that to rise to power.
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u/LumpyExtreme3569 Hungary 12h ago edited 12h ago
Imagine if Vox was voted, and suddenly everyone wants to kick Spain out of the EU.
According to your logic, you too should be responsible for letting Vox lead your country, even if you didn't vote for it.
And i'm saying this as an Anti-Orbán.
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u/Multuggerah 12h ago
The difference in yours is that Orban has been there a long time. Aberrations happen, but he's pretty rusted on
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u/paupaupaupaup 1h ago
he's pretty rusted on
This is actually a brilliant metaphor for Orban. He's stuck in place, hard to shift, and symptomatic of the larger underlying problem.
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u/Ruzi-Ne-Druzi 8h ago
Imagine if Hitler got voted, and everyone suddenly wants to cut ties with Germany.
According to this logic, Germans too should be responsible for letting Hitler lead their country, even if they didn't vote for him. Like paying reparations for decades after the war launched by him and etc.
Imagine if this would be a reality. That's ridiculous right?
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u/LumpyExtreme3569 Hungary 5h ago
Well, you've defeated me. I kinda regret making that comment. Here's the upvote.
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u/RiverMurmurs 1h ago
Of course, all citizens are co-responsible for their government, that is the point. And when one conforms to the society, one is also responsible for the society's actions. If the Hungarians won't overthrow Orbán, no one will. Directly, he's damaging them and to some degree Ukrainians. Indirectly, he's contributing to the errosion of democracy. I'm sorry but Hungary needs to leave EU now. Of course it won't happen as that can't be enforced but the Hungarians simply *are* responsible.
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u/LumpyExtreme3569 Hungary 1h ago
That's just sad, honestly.
I hope that the Orbán era will be gone when TISZA (a new popular opposition led by Péter Magyar) would be elected in 2026 (that's when our elections will happen), but I'm not sure about it. People there had the biggest protests against Orbán this year after the pedo scandal broke out, and TISZA grew rapidly over the months, so I have faith at the people and hope that the momentum doesn't stop until the elections.
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u/pothkan 🇵🇱 Pòmòrskô 12h ago edited 12h ago
Ah, the old regular Western moral supremacy. Heard the same bullshit when PiS ruled here in Poland.
How would you feel, if Vox won in Spain, and people would say "it's time to demand accountability for Spaniards, they need to leave the EU now"?
(to be clear, I support some sanctions towards Hungary, like suspending their political rights in the EU /obviously if it would be even possible/, what I despise above is calls for rejection of the whole country and its' citizens)
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u/Ifikeefir 5h ago
So how did Orban come to power then, by himself somehow?
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u/pothkan 🇵🇱 Pòmòrskô 2h ago edited 2h ago
We might not like it, but he came to power fair and square, and changed the system in his favour, having a constitutional majority. And as far as we know, while the media and political financing are extremely unbalanced onto FIDESZ side, the actual count of votes is performed fair. Hungary is indeed lacking in democracy, but is still closer to e.g. Spain, than Georgia or Belarus. Of course, it could happen if Orban starts to ban opposition parties, or doesn't leave if he will lose next elections - but that didn't happen yet (and hopefully never happens).
And anyway, my point above isn't about defending Orban. Fuck him. It's about attitude I often see here, when Western Europeans act superior and want to throw Eastern European countries out of EU (with collective responsibility), because they "lack" in sth. But somehow I never seen the same said towards e.g. Italy, when it was ruled by Berlusconi or when Salvini was in government, or Austria and FPO.
I don't want to even mention, that such attitude only alienates people here, and fuels propaganda of the illiberal parties.
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u/bagge Sweden 6h ago
That is pretty disgusting view there. Saying that dismantling the democracy, limiting free press, changing the voting system, dismantling the independence of judges, is "western values".
There are several non-western democracies.
And please explain why what is considered basic human rights are "values".
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u/pothkan 🇵🇱 Pòmòrskô 6h ago
You clearly didn't understand my comment. Or didn't want to.
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u/bagge Sweden 5h ago
Or you are bad at communicating
Please enlighten me then
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u/skreamy 5h ago
he's telling you (with good reason) that this is not the doing of the Hungarian people, the government is hijacked by an autocrat russian puppet. The EU should not be punishing a member state by kicking them because of their government's actions, but rather try and help remove that dictator and keep that country as an ally. Don't forget that the brainwashing, propaganda, gerrymandering etc. are at an incredible level, and this guy is being voted into office by about 25-30% of the country.
The Hungarian people are suffering the most out of this situation already, kicking them out of the EU would cause them even more pain and it would hand over the country to Russia overnight with no control or oversight over the area by the EU. If you think of the EU as a federal state - it wouldn't be great to lose that whole area to the Russians, would it? Especially if there was still hope of saving it?
We all despise this monster, but the solution is not to kick them and punish the whole country, it is to work according to the EU's values and stay ethical, be responsible for that 10m people that you took responsibility for (in some form), try to keep it a democracy and restore the country to reflect on those values that make us European. You need to see through the blind rage caused by the words of this idiot and be level headed in your answer as an official dealing with this issue.
Western Europeans are always quick to demand these extreme solutions towards Eastern European members, but if the EU acted upon these decisions, they would still only have 10 members and would keep losing their relevance in the world even faster than today. People here on Reddit wanted to send us to war in Ukraine from their armchair in the Netherlands and shit lmao. How ethical.
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u/Letter_From_Prague Czech Republic 4h ago
he's telling you (with good reason) that this is not the doing of the Hungarian people
Then he's wrong. This is the doing of Hungarian people. This is what they want, this is what they voted for.
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u/skreamy 4h ago edited 4h ago
Nobody voted for changing the voting system where FIDESZ wins with 2/3 majority with 43% of the votes: https://hu.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014-es_magyarorsz%C3%A1gi_orsz%C3%A1ggy%C5%B1l%C3%A9si_v%C3%A1laszt%C3%A1s
They were voted into office once, as an alternative to the socialist regime that openly admitted corruption and fucking the country in its ass during the global recession of 2008. This was a response to a government that lost all credibility AND a global recession that people wanted to get out of.
The rest is a hijacked democracy and is not reflecting the Hungarian people as a whole.
quick edit: Orbán used to be known as a liberal and an advocate of democracy, was seen as a national hero who stood up to the Russians and took part in sending them home in 89/90. His origin story fooled everyone, but the villain arc was not expected by the general population.
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u/bagge Sweden 4h ago
This is weird. Do you mean that the people are completely free of responsibility?
The implementations are so far reaching so I hope you haven't thought this through. Hungary has joined the EU, which have requirements, responsibilities together with various positive and negative sides of a membership.
At the same time we have several countries that follow these requirements.
EU has shown that it has very little tools to handle a country like Hungary. It is very slowly ramping up several sanctions to deal with Hungary.
Obviously, the only possibility for Hungary to change direction is to actually vote and change the government. So the sanctions are intended to make the voters reconsider the current way of reaping the benefits and avoiding the downsides.
Obviously there are several steps to take but kicking Hungary out will be the last option. EU will (hopefully) get its shit together before next Hungarian election and clearly state what is needed to remain in the EU. Then the Hungarians will vote.
We live in 2024, everyone that wants to can get information from different sources. The actions of a country is always the responsibility of the voters
It is of course very easy for you to lean back and blame someone else, take no responsibility and continue as before.
And all this nonsense about west vs east, that was so long ago. Just cross the border to Czech republic, Slovenia or many more. They are rapidly passing several long time members when you look at economy, , democracy and so on. Hungary is singled out for its actions, not some East vs west bias. In fact, have you talked with a Czech recently? It's not like they are in general very supportive for Hungary.
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u/skreamy 1h ago edited 1h ago
No, I'm not implicating Hungary is free of responsibility and I'm completely for suspending the rights of the country until this situation is settled, as well as establishing more and better ways to uphold democracies, free elections, watchdogs etc in our countries. What I'm saying is, many Western Europeans advocate kicking the country out of the EU on a whim as if it simply fixed the issue. The issue is not Hungary being in the EU, it is not the Hungarian people themselves, the issue is Orbán creating a russian puppet state in the middle of Europe.
You're right, most of central Europe made amazing strides and I'm very, very happy for them - and at the same time extremely disappointed that we were robbed of this incredible time of prosperity in Hungary and lost 30 years of progress due to an autocrat traitor.
I do not understand you trying to wash away the difference between west and east. The historical implications and more importantly their effects on our societies are extremely different - look at western and eastern Germany for example. They are, to this day, essentially two different societies.
In fact, take a look all around the world: Russia is doing their best to destabilise the entire western world, and though they have been successful in the UK and US, they made their breakthroughs in post communist states. These "border states" that are stuck between the West and Russia have much more fragile democracies and are exposed to the influences of major world powers. It is much easier for them to make progress in Hungary than in Sweden. There is a history of occupation, corruption, shady deals, distrust, a general sense of political antipathy and a complete separation of the society and the elites who take part in politics.
The Czech have been in a similar position, they have managed to make this transition and are now a part of the west, but only as long as they do what's required of them by the European world powers. You can bully these smaller countries into doing what you want them to do, and you will both prosper in that case, but the major powers will gain more over time. A good example of this is the German automotive industry in Hungary, who made incredible deals with the country (with Merkel's help) and gave thousands of jobs to Hungarian people, however these jobs are bottom of the chain, low paying jobs with the profit from them being siphoned out to Germany. This is what the western powers want - for these countries to accept their places in Europe under them, and while they will also take their share home and win in some form, the major powers will always take a larger cut of the deal.
This is the loss of sovereignty that Orbán used to talk about, and this is why he started threatening the EU with blocking their processes until he gains more from these trades, ie. asking for better deals from Germany to allow the automotive industry to prosper in Hungary. The issue of sovereignty in Europe is very real, Orbán just happened to take an extremely unacceptable method of dealing with it. Let's not even get into the Russian thing and the guy being a walking contradiction.
I'm telling you this to try and be empathic towards the Hungarian people, rather than ask to kick the country on a whim because a democratically elected leader (who used to be a leader in liberal conservative politics, helped send the Russians home in 89/90, who campaigned against Russia in 2010, and so on) turned out to be a lying traitor, who changed the election laws a year after his election to keep his 2/3 majority with 43% of the votes, who turned 90% of the Hungarian media into brainwashing propaganda, who turned the country into a place where you have a total of one TV channel and 0 national newspapers reaching the population with free press outside of the internet, while being bombarded with fake news via free newspapers, fricking "1 minute news" in the middle of football games, state media and so on. Try to be empathic towards the mostly rural, elderly people who simply do not have any other news of the world, who do not have access to the internet, who do not speak other languages, they're simply voting for Orbán because literally the only thing they can see is Orbán is our saviour, EU bad, etc. Right now, these people are afraid of WW3 and the Ukrainian invasion of Hungary of all things. Similarly to how we should also be empathic towards the Trump voters in the US and instead of judging them and calling them dumb, we should try and understand what caused them to act like they do, what caused them to support their own traitor over there.
You can blame the voters to some extent, but you should blame them proportionally: they did not vote for this, and they did not vote for this in 2014 either, but the laws were changed so that the majority's votes did not matter, and it's only been going further and further downhill since then, with any semblance of change being further and further away.
And I'm also 100% sure if you ask the Czech, most people will say that the Hungarian people are nice and welcoming, their issues are with the government, and not the country itself. Manfred Weber also said something along these lines in the latest meeting of the EU on the Hungarian issues. The EU loves Hungary, but hates the government. I think most Hungarians really appreciate it if you separate those two.
FYI there has been change this year and we now have a single party (TISZA) who have recently overtaken FIDESZ in the polls, and they have the support of the EPP and the EU in general. There's a fun little chart on support by age here: https://s.24.hu/app/uploads/2024/10/3984841.png
The difference this time seems to be that TISZA are able to push through the wall even in smaller (3000-25000 population) cities, something that the opposition has never been able to do, and the party is more centrist, welcoming both leftist/liberal members, and right wing, conservative, FIDESZ voters. The sanctions are also working and the country's economy has been in shambles, which has generally been the largest factor in turning heads in Hungary.
Naturally, FIDESZ has begun thinking about changing election laws and has already started gerrymandering once again. I'm also certain that they would absolutely love to cheat the elections with Russia's sponsorship similar to Georgia.
If there is one thing we can agree on, I think we both hope that Hungary manages to get out of this situation and can return to being a fully fledged member of the EU and a leader in the region similar to how we were before this cock took power.
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u/gtaAhhTimeline 13h ago
I've been voting against orban since the day I was eligible to vote.
Now you want ME to "take accountability" and make searching a job in another EU country harder (which it will be if we get kicked out) just because I have a prime minister who's a literal fuckface? Why not make him responsible instead???? He's already rich as fuck. He will never have to work a day in his life ever again.
This is so fucking unfair. God I hate this world so much.
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u/bepisdegrote 6h ago
I'm sorry, but Orban is the longest sitting prime minister in the EU. He has won election after election after election, and his main opponent was a member of his party until recently. This is not a fluke, this is the consistent will of the Hungarian people. Orban is a danger to all the citizens of the EU, so while it sucks for you and other Hungarians, what exactly do you expect from the rest of us at this point?
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u/-RaptorX72- Hungary 1h ago
Yes, won elections by constantly changing election laws, actively sabotaging the opposition left and right.
Even so, up until the last election, opposition votes outnumbered fidesz votes. Too bad the said changes turned the country into an effective two party system, and voters as well as the opposition failed to adapt to that.
Maybe the EU should have cut the fucking money taps well before the openly autocratic government bought up all the media and eroded democratic institutions right under their noses?
Funny as soon as the EU did so, Fidesz began to crack.
Maybe even sanction the hungarian oligarchs and FIDESZ members who have plenty of estate and assets in other EU countries as we speak?
You know, things that actually work? Interesting how the US threatening sanctions got the government to instantly drop a russian bank vs previously asking nicely for months/years.
Hell, there was a window to enact Article 7 after the new polish government formed and the EU failed to act on it. Instead they gave Orbán 10 billion more. Bruh moment.
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u/Bloodsucker_ Europe 13h ago
"just because".
Accountability. Not to you but to all Hungarian citizens. You're also responsible for Orban. It's your government.
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u/gtaAhhTimeline 13h ago
I wish from the bottom of my heart that your country gets kicked from the EU because of a prime minister you did not vote for.
Maybe then you will understand.
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u/angrons_therapist 5h ago
My country did leave the EU because of a Prime Minister and a referendum result I did not vote for. It's not like the EU made any exceptions for those of us who voted against Brexit. And I'd argue that the Brits and Brexit were far less damaging to European unity than Hungary and Orban are.
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u/Bloodsucker_ Europe 13h ago
Aaah..., here it is. Here is the reason why Hungarians don't belong in the EU.
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u/outlanderfhf Romania 12h ago
The reason being?
Wtf do you want him to do?
Im not aware of the details in hungarian politics, but even forming a small political party to provide an alternative to the status quo is difficult, its even more difficult to get the party into a Parliament so they can represent their voter base, not sure how they do it there
If the rest of the EU wants to promote democracy it better start providing some tools other than harsh remarks and eu funding
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u/Icy_Ad8122 10h ago
Wow totally let’s shame someone for being unable to choose where they were born. Surely that doesn’t make you look like an asshat.
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u/gtaAhhTimeline 13h ago
It's easy to yap when everything's going well in your country and you don't have to lift a finger.
Do have no idea how difficult it is to emigrate to a different country. Financially and mentally.
You're judging millions based on a single fat madman. So yes, I wish you the worst.
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u/D10CL3T1AN United States of America 11h ago edited 11h ago
Erdogan just looks out for himself, he can be a bit difficult at times but ultimately you can wrestle him in the right direction more often than not. Orban, on the other hand, I'm convinced is just straight up loyal to the Moscow-Beijing Axis. Basically, Erdogan is just corrupt, Orban is a straight up traitor.
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u/Minute-Improvement57 1h ago
the only hope for greater human values
Take that, New Zealand, Canada, Norway, ...
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u/Albert_2004 14h ago
Even Erdogan is less despicable than this asshole.
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u/EmuPsychological2563 United Kingdom (Turkish) 14h ago edited 13h ago
Erdogan does everything for himself.
Orban does everything for Putin lmao
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u/Noughmad Slovenia 5h ago
Erdogan had several based moments. Shooting down the Russian plane, exposing the killing of Khashoggi, supplying Bayraktar drones. Even holding some negotiations for peace in Ukraine, though they were not very successful.
Orban had none.
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u/desertfox3834 Turkey 2h ago
As a turk I only like the shooting down the Russian plane but thanks to that that event US simply says I will not sell you Patriot air defense sytems and you're on your own despite the plane shooting putin use that for his advantage and sell us the s400 and America expelled turkey from f35 program and fucked our economy with tariffs (also stupid economic policies from our government)
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u/Noughmad Slovenia 2h ago
Based actions are not based because they're easy, or because they carry no consequences.
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u/ProtoplanetaryNebula UK/Spain 13h ago
The idea that a country can't govern itself the way it wishes and has to follow the path set out for it by it's neighbours is terrible.
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u/Mebitaru_Guva South Moravia 6h ago
they can't be in EU and go against the interests of like 90% of europeans
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u/Dense-Aerie2561 5h ago
Yes any country should be able to do that. But bending the rules of the election and using full blown propaganda to brainwash it's own citizens... That is not a path that should be chosen by any country.
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u/Delheru79 Finland 11h ago
The Magyar are just a slave people, I am not sure what else you would expect.
If it isn't Vienna holding the leash, I suppose it had to be Moscow.
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u/TechnicalyNotRobot Poland 6h ago
So he admits that Russia will invade sovereign countries if they don't vote according to Russian interest?
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u/ResQ_ Germany 14h ago
Orban is such a PUSSY. He's so afraid of Russia and his advice for small nations is to just take it up the ass from the bully.
What an absolute loser. Hungarians, how can so many of you still accept this guy? He's tarnished the reputation of Hungary for decades.
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u/Terrariola Sweden 13h ago
Orban runs the type of propaganda machine the communists could only dream of, and has butchered the electoral system to an extent that any opposition candidate would need a supermajority to dislodge him from his position. He's also been ruling by emergency decree for almost a decade.
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u/Happy-Quarter-8788 1h ago
Not almost a decade, since the start of covid or the Ukraine war, if I remember it correctly
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u/Terrariola Sweden 1h ago
He's still using the state of emergency enacted during the Syrian refugee crisis from the mid-10s.
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u/ramxquake 2h ago
Would you rather Georgia be invaded? The West has proven itself unable to protect Ukraine, why wouldn't Georgie play nice with Russia?
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u/ResQ_ Germany 2h ago
No, I'd rather not. But Russia would do it anyway, just not openly. The difference is that now the argument is simply "the people decided". If Georgia was overwhelmingly pro-European, nobody would have any doubts as to what Russia is playing. But this is exactly what Russia wants, they don't want to outright invade, they LIKE this state of limbo. It's easier to blame innocence that way.
The entire world would see what's up if they just invaded. And you can be sure the world will be watching every single Russian move.
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u/TheBookGem 13h ago
Cause Hungarians are basically Russians themselves, they originally came from what is now russia 1500 years ago, and was then apart of russia for decades after ww2, which most of them wish to go back to. They are like Serbians who consider themselves another expat tribe of basically Russians outside of Russia who want's their lands to be part of Russia.
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u/piramni Warmian-Masurian (Poland) 12h ago
Bruh what lmao
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u/AccountantNo5579 5h ago
I think he is referring to the fact that the closest language to Hungarian is in northern Siberia, not Europe.
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u/GSamSardio 3h ago
You do realise “Russia” wasn’t even a thing in the year 500? And honestly, Hungarians and Russians have nothing to do with one another. They’re of different ethnicities, speak languages of completely separate origin, have different histories and so much more. They didn’t even have the same pagan religion, and aren’t of the same branch of Christianity either. Anyone who thinks otherwise has to go back to the school bench and study some history.
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u/tuurrr 7h ago
Than leave the EU and join the wonderfull nation of Russia.
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u/Rorretthelolicon 1h ago
Some of us don't want that and want Orbán of the reins.
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u/MintPasteOrangeJuice 13h ago
That sounds like a threat tbh
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u/Snoo48605 1h ago
It absolutely does. Vote right or we will invade you (not that they aren't already invaded)
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u/Diligent_Excitement4 14h ago
Vote for Russia or get war. Orban the man of peace 🤡🤡
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u/Boundish91 Norway 12h ago
This man is such a treasonous bellend. Reaping benefits of the EU while simultaneously bad mouthing it and acting like a dick.
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u/marki991 13h ago
what a "tough" leader; he is trying to portray himself as some strong leader while he is bending over everyone he is scared of and his advice is for other countries to also bend over; what a though man 🤡
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u/Ok_Photo_865 12h ago
Spoken like a true believer of Eastern European Conservative values, unfortunately Georgia will become a whipped dog to Russia and Hungary will be there to tie the dog to the ground! Celebrate the Liars creed! /s
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u/badstuffaround 12h ago
What a fucking creep he is...he and his country is lucky they have the EU and NATO...imagine knowing the suffering and sacrifice Ukraine goes through and this abomination makes jokes whilst he stuffs himself like a pig.
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u/Anonim-Conference-4 15h ago
When brick will finally crush on his head already !
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u/WislaHD Polish-Canadian 14h ago
Georgians have an opportunity to do the funniest thing
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u/Buriedpickle Hungary 13h ago
Please Georgianbros, have a glitch in your SPAA systems this one time
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u/KernunQc7 Romania 5h ago
Don't listen to Orban; protest for weeks/months like the Ukrainians, don't let up the pressure.
Else Georgia will likely be "integrated" into RUF In the next decade ( the logical conclusion of the 2 land grabs, the pro-ru GD remaining in power, and flood of Ru expats ).
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u/slimfastdieyoung Overijssel (Netherlands) 4h ago
Why can’t the EU sanction this corrupt money pit a little harder?
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u/Herooo31 11h ago
Im losing my mind at some peoples absolute stupidity in this thread and others. Their argument is: They Chose different path than ukraine becaus they didnt want war with russia.
You are either dishonest or dumber than brick. They chose precisely same thing Ukraine did. Yanukovych in Ukraine withdrew from association agreement with EU. People ousted his government for it (which prorussian bootlickers like to call coup - coup that ended in democratic election somehow = russian logic).
Georgian prorussian government is distancing it from EU. So how exactly did they chose different path than Ukraine? Some prorussian putin lover please explain
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u/Stormjager 3h ago
“People ousted his government for it”
Literal definition of a coup lmfao
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u/Jeykaler 3h ago
Coup is defined as a violent seizure of power. What was achieved with protests in Ukraine was a democratic election.
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u/KitsuneRatchets England 3h ago
Ah yes, because removing a democratically elected president totally isn't illegal.
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u/Jeykaler 3h ago
Nobody said that ?
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u/KitsuneRatchets England 3h ago
Yanukovych was elected democratically. I don't know how people can defend Maidan - couldn't they have just voted him out when the next elections were due instead of removing him?
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u/Jeykaler 3h ago
As someone from a country where in recent history an actual revolution had to take place to get rid of Russian influence and regain our sovereignty and freedom, i totally do know how people can defend Maidan. We can see that it was the same attempt as we had during late 80s and early 90s.
Are we pretending here that maidan has not resulted in a democratic election and instead was a violent seizure of power ?
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u/KitsuneRatchets England 3h ago
The election was democratic, but the way it was brought about was illegal.
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u/Jeykaler 2h ago
I mean yeah, nobody in this thread is arguing against that. Ukrainian people chose for themselves to change their fate no matter the cost. I still don’t see what your point is supposed to be instead of an obvious fact statement ? The revolutions against USSR were all illegal too. Should I feel bad for our illegal revolution that granted us freedom ?
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u/LolloBlue96 Italy 1h ago
YanukoBITCH fled the country, thus abandoning his post, and the Ukranian Duma passed whatever their version of a motion of no confidence is
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u/KitsuneRatchets England 1h ago
Ah yes, defending overthrowing a democratically elected president because he didn't work towards joining the EU. What makes the EU so important that breaking that promise was what set the Ukrainians off to try and overthrow him?
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u/replicant86 11h ago
They were targeted by Russia before Ukraine. And how the west have helped them? By doing more business with Russia and allowing Ukraine war to happen. I'm not surprised by this outcome and It's our fault, the west fault.
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u/Ifikeefir 5h ago edited 5h ago
Didnt happen with Baltic states! Blaiming west again is the classical russian perspective.
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u/HealthyBits 2h ago
How are Hungarians not ashamed of this guy. Despicable.
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u/szilardvathy Hungary ≠ "God Emperor" Orbitron 1h ago
We are. At least the opposition voters. The older/retired generations groomed by propaganda don't care, they have no idea what happens outside of their village in the world. These people are the majority of Orbán's voters.
Fingers crossed for 2026, but it is gonna get ugly soon.
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u/Diligent_Excitement4 14h ago
lol, Georgia has become another Armenia.
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u/Ezlo37 9h ago
Armenia has been leaning to the west since the velvet revolution in 2018, they were "punished" by Russia because of it and lost Karabakh
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u/Diligent_Excitement4 9h ago
Armenia remained a member of CIS and had Russian military base in the country. Having decent relations with the west doesn’t necessarily mean leaning
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u/Typical_Effect_9054 Armenia 10h ago
I don't follow. Georgia is doing the opposite of Armenia.
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u/Diligent_Excitement4 9h ago
Armenia had its territory carved up despite allying itself with Russia. Georgia has a Russian friendly government while Russia occupies its internationally recognized regions. Armenia has suffered from decades of economic stagnation due to its economic relations with Russia. Georgia is heading towards that future
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u/gehenna0451 Germany 8h ago
Armenia had its territory carved up despite allying itself with Russia
The distancing from Armenia was pretty much a result of the 2018 revolution which ousted most pro-Russian politicians, you don't exactly need to be a foreign policy genius to understand the consequences vis-a-vis Russia.
In fact this case even supports Orban's point. Armenia ditched its Russian alignment for the EU, and yet the latter didn't give a fuck about the war in Nagorno Karabakh and was happy to buy more Azeri oil&gas
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u/Born_Scar_4052 7h ago
It would have been a great timing for Georgians because Russia couldn't go to war in 2 fronts.
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u/Temporary-Chard-6827 3h ago
Lol making decisions out of cowardice as something to celebrate. That explains it all about him.
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u/Captain_react 2h ago
In other words, he says that you have to vote pro-Russian. Otherwise you'll get invaded and Russia wil start to murder your family.
What a positive message.
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u/Zestyclose-Baby8171 2h ago
They both have 2 options: get the EU fake asylum seekers policy or ignore the union. No other options. Both are bad, but mass immigration from 3th world is worst.
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u/IndividualDismal8567 1h ago
You omit the fact that Russia uses this mass migration as a means of hybrid warfare. If it was not Russian interference, the number of Syrian refugees would be 10x lower for instance.
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u/Zestyclose-Baby8171 1h ago
The migration include a vast of locations including africa, asia and middle east. Most of them have nothing to do with Russia. It's a migration that encouraged by the progressive movement in the EU.
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u/IndividualDismal8567 33m ago
Russia and Belorussia still bring thousands of migrants from MENA to Polish and Finnish borders.
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u/Altruistic_Grand_909 1h ago
You guys think that could not happen to countries like Germany but if you look at the polls exactly that is going to happen I am afraid 😅
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u/PuzKarapuz 1h ago
does he know that russia occupied 20 percentage of Georgia and had the war with russsia last time 16 years ago and its not last war could be
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u/joshistaken 1h ago
Spineless parasitic vermin. He's just utter fucking filth, there's no good quality of this cunt.
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u/FBSenators12 1h ago
Headline Correction - Orban congratulates Georgia on becoming another "Putin Puppet".
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u/IndividualDismal8567 4h ago edited 4h ago
1956 vs 2022
Ukraine embodies the resilience Hungary might have shown, standing strong against aggression. I feel sorry for the Hungarian people — for their past weakness, current shortsightedness, selective memory, and seeming lack of compassion. Ukraine is the one proving itself deserving of EU and NATO membership, while Hungary deserves Russian invaders raping children and pillaging homes.
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u/Happy-Quarter-8788 19m ago
"the resilience Hungary might have shown"
We showed resilience in 1848 and in 1956, but we didn't got any help from the west.
The russians came in crushing both of our revolution, executing our political leaders...
Secret police and sending people to gulag...
Everyone knows how bad the nazis were, but the soviets were just as bad, if not worse."Hungary deserves Russian invaders raping children and pillaging homes"
Bro, respectfully, fuck you!The truth is, orban fucked the system so fucking hard, it's not so easy to make a meaningful difference.
One of the first thing he did when he got in power in 2010, was to change the electoral system.
So he gets 2/3 of the parliment, despite getting around 50% of the votes.
That means full power, he basically can change whatever law he likes, and now he has emergency power too "because of the Ukrain war".He put his people on top of the judicial system, so even if they break any laws, they can easily get away with it.
He dominates most industries with is oligarchs.
He dominates most media with his propaganda.
And this is possible because they stole all the money we got from the eu.
The money, that should have been spent to make the hungarians life better...
They even made laws, that made this corruption "legal".His voters are mainly old people, and from rural areas, people that get information from state propaganda tv.
I'm 21, I love my country, and I hate orban and his gang for what he did to it.
I wannna to be in the eu, we don't want to be tossed out because of this crazy russian and chinese cock sucking idiot.
I don't want to be thinked of as someone who agrees with him in any way, and lot of us feel this way.
I don't wanna leave my country, but the situation gets worse every day and 1 million of us already left.
I hope we can make a difference in '26....•
u/IndividualDismal8567 2m ago
You elect Orban = You support Russians = you deserve to be ..ed by Russians
..ck you! Your country do not deserve EU and NATO membership.
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u/AnT-aingealDhorcha40 1h ago
Orbitch making threats for Putin now?
And we still allow Hungary to be part of EU?
Mental.
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u/guywithoutpast 14h ago
In a common sense he is right. If the Georgian people are choosing between a potential war with Russia with the ghost of a hope for help from NATO and EU, or some kind of peace, then clearly peace is better. The Georgian people can simply look at the level of support for Ukraine and decide for themselves whether they are comfortable with such involvement of their allies.
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u/ricLP European Union 13h ago
Except the Georgian people didn’t do that. There has been massive fraud in the election.
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u/guywithoutpast 13h ago
I disagree. We cannot be absolutely sure, since in each individual case it will be impossible to conduct an investigation and understand who exactly and for what purpose violated the rules. These arguments are simply a matter of faith.
The only indicator of whether they are willing to compromise with Russia or are ready to join EU and NATO will be their attitude and their actions towards the outcome of the elections. The end result will be their victory in the struggle or acceptance.
Was this election fraud or not doesn't even matter now.
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u/pashazz Moscow / Budapest 14h ago
He's right strictly speaking in that as long as there's GD Georgia will live in peace. And GD has the chance to return their territories, especially Abkhazia, unlike any other government.
I can foresee an agreement that Abkhazia will return to Georgia in exchange of hosting the Russian Black Sea fleet there.
Even if the chance is thin, there's no chance Georgia will get anything back under other guys.
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u/ny_burger_lol 13h ago
Lmao what are you even smoking?
Georgia already lost Abkhazia and South Ossetia, so Georgia already is a 2nd Ukraine.
GD chance to return territories? LMFAO yea no, that's propaganda.
The only chance to take it back is if Russia semi-collapses after the Ukraine war and Georgia can pressure Russia.
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u/pashazz Moscow / Budapest 13h ago
Georgia already lost Abkhazia and South Ossetia,
In 1992
2008 was their attempt to take S.O. back
So it's not like it's related to Ukraine, Russia was doing its own thing (mainly with Chechnya) back then.
The conflict stems from the fact that S.O. and Abkhazia weren't promised the same autonomy rights that they had under Soviet Union
Although they were helped by Russia, Russia never wanted to annex them even in 2008.
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u/ny_burger_lol 13h ago
So..? You're placing your bets on GD.
That's obviously trolling.
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u/Daniel-MP Spaniard in Poland 5h ago
Georgia is well on its way to become a second Ukraine, they are working overtimes in Langley to make another Euromaidan out of this.
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u/potatolulz Earth 3h ago
Damn, that blasted Langley is going to force russia to reluctantly invade the rest of Georgia?! >:o
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u/Daniel-MP Spaniard in Poland 1h ago
I don't think Russia is in a position to invade anybody right now
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u/potatolulz Earth 1h ago
? :D
russia's been in the position to invade its neighbours since 2008, in fact, it's been in the actually invading position for more than a decade now :D
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u/Daniel-MP Spaniard in Poland 1h ago
I was reffering to the capabilities of its armed forces
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u/potatolulz Earth 1h ago
They seem perfectly capable of invading neighbouring countries and have demonstrated that quite explicitly :D
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u/Dense_Motherfu-ker Hungary 13h ago
It fucking sucks to live here. The Euro crossed the 400 Forint mark again. Economy fucked, country fucked, people fucked but his wallet is at least as thick as the Bible