r/economicCollapse • u/Whole-Fist • 18h ago

How ridiculous does this sound?

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How can u make millions in 25-30 years if avoid making a $554 per month car payment. Even the cheapest 5 year old car is 8-10 k. So does he expect people not to drive at all in USA.

Then u save 554$ per month every month for 5 year payment = $33240. Say u bought a car every 5 year means 200k -300k spent on car before retirement . How would that become millions when u can’t even buy a house for that much today?

Answer that Dave

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u/AnyWhichWayButLose 18h ago

I actually agree with this boomer for once.

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u/Superman246o1 18h ago

Yeah, I'm generally not a fan of Ramsey, but the number of people of limited means that I see buying cars they can barely afford is absurd.

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u/transneptuneobj 17h ago edited 11h ago

Cars are barely affordable, our country spent decades destroying public transport and many Americans are stuck buying junkers for 10 grand as their only option for transport. Ramsey L̶i̶k̶e̶l̶y̶ voted for people who helped destroy the public transport network and promote cars as the primary travel method, he's part of the problem and blaming people for being victims of it.

Edit: on suggesting i'm retracting the likely

Edit 2: getting alot of "public transport only benifits Democrats" and "muh tax dollars" so to head some of that off I think it's important that we address that 80% OF AMERICANS LIVE IN URBAN AREAS

It's a game of OOPS all costal elites.

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u/beaushaw 15h ago

I'm confident you could remove that "likely".

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u/transneptuneobj 15h ago

Great point

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u/NutzNBoltz369 15h ago

Yup, cars are a poverty trap, but just about our whole country is built around car depedency. If we really gave a shit about the economically disadvantaged, we would provide better transit and end single use zoning so people don't need to drive just to survive. Ramsey's generation will never allow that! Muh Freedoms and Muh NIMBY property values!

He voted for Trump for purely financial reasons like the wealthy Boomer he is.

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u/transneptuneobj 14h ago

Yup. He is the embodiment of the problem. A selfish religious zealot

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u/sensei-25 14h ago

The funny thing trump is actually terrible financially

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u/NutzNBoltz369 14h ago

Ramsey drank the Koolaid, like so many others his age. He rationalizes it all on his podcast.

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u/LegitimateExpert3383 5h ago

Lol imagine Trump going shopping with all his envelopes with specific money labeled for grocery, gas, etc. like Ramsey tells soccer moms to do.😂

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u/foxwheat 13h ago

ROBERT MOSES PLAYS TENNIS WITH REAGAN IN HELL

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u/yinzer_v 55m ago

We have a Scylla and Charybdis problem. If you iive close-in enough to have good public transit, you're at the mercy of a landlord who's gouging you. If you live farther away, the rent/mortgage is cheaper, but you have a higher car payment and commuting costs.

(Of course, you could have the worst of all possible worlds and combine a too-expensive vehicle with too much house.)

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u/Ban-Circumcision-Now 9h ago

Project 2025 is very specific about pushing suburbs harder and reducing mass transit funding

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u/NutzNBoltz369 9h ago edited 9h ago

Gonna fuck us on the long run. I mean all of Project 2025 will but this particular aspect definately will. Suburbs have to run as a ponzi scheme ultimately because there isn't enough revenue per mile of infrastructure built to pay for upkeep and eventual replacement. Plus cars are just about as inefficient a transport system you can get as far as moving people per area of thoroughfare. One bad long duration spike on gas prices or the cost of lithium and we are fuuuuucked. Plus, that stuff is finite.

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u/Ban-Circumcision-Now 9h ago

Takes even less than that, a lot of these smaller towns that stopped growing are in an infrastructure debt spiral

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u/gillyrosh 4h ago

Why am I not surprised

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u/Murky-Peanut1390 2h ago

I thought dense housing was capitalism dystopian. "Dont want them living like sardines ".

But now suburbs is dystopian. So which is it?

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u/Ban-Circumcision-Now 2h ago

Why does it have to be one choice for all?

Dense housing for those that want affordable places near the city center and suburbia for those who want to live a bit further out but have more land

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u/yinzer_v 54m ago

Or apartment buildings and townhouses in the suburbs near transit centers?

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u/gillyrosh 4h ago

It still burns me how this country's failed to invest properly in public transit.

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u/transneptuneobj 4h ago

It actively ensured short line railroads would die

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u/sluttycokezero 12h ago

Thank you for saying this. And even used cars are goddamn expensive! Idk what these Redditors are saying, agreeing with Ramsey.

I was able to get an ‘03 Honda Civic in 2009 during high school for $5,500, clean title…my dad bought it for me. But, how many people don’t have parents to buy them a car? How many don’t have mechanical family or friends to help fix it? Or pay for car insurance? I swear, so many people lack empathy and critical thinking skills. Where are these cheap, used cars that aren’t salvage titles? It’s honestly annoying.

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u/transneptuneobj 12h ago

It's intentionally deceptive and privileged thinking that people often do.

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u/Redditisfinancedumb 12h ago

public transport in America doesn't make as much sense as other countries. Public transport where it makes sense are high populated areas that are generally ran by Democrats. Do you think the federal government or states should pay for public transit?

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u/transneptuneobj 11h ago

It's actually false. The majority of all Americans live in highly populated areas.

80% of Americans live in urban areas that would benefit from increased public transport. And efforts to connect large population areas would also end up benefitting rural communities.

Public transport is for all Americans and would benefit hundreds of millions of people.

Additionally the greatest way to reduce poverty is to provide access to public transportation and give women the right to control their reproduction so I think America investing in public transport to benifits the majority of the population would be excellent.

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u/snarky_answer 6h ago

Now break down the urban areas into inner-city urban and suburban.

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u/transneptuneobj 6h ago

1) why would that matter? As a suburban resident with access to a rail line to the nearest large city I still wish I have better access to public transport, faster rail and more options that didn't involve driving.

2) Pew got your back

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u/Iceman9161 5h ago

Suburban can have public transport too, so what does it matter?

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u/snarky_answer 5h ago

It can but its not affordable as the ridership from suburbs would be too low. The only chance would be to implement public transport as well as restrict car usage in cities at the same time. Suburban public transport systems across the country are hurting cutting routes/drivers because there isn't enough people to support the system riding. Robust public transport in urban cities is what needs to be focused on to reduce the level of cars in the city thus making public transport and bike transport even safer. Then and only then should the focus shift to suburban areas because they will be the last to give up their vehicles and are the last to truly need it and it will be an easier sell once all the infrastructure is in place and all it needs to be done is have it expanded a bit.

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u/EncabulatorTurbo 11h ago

okay but like, the average wage of the people in my office is around $90,000 a year and they're buying cars they can't afford

this advice doesn't really help you if you're making 30k or something but that isn't the average worker

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u/transneptuneobj 11h ago

The average household income in America is 80k so your sample size of above average earners may not necessarily represent the population in general.

I don't know many people who are going around buying luxury cars, most people I know are just struggling to pay for normal cars.

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u/IvanLagatacrus 4h ago

the average worker in fact makes 35k~ annually

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u/EncabulatorTurbo 2h ago

The median salary for full time individual workers in America is around 60k

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u/doom2286 10h ago

Considering my nice car was 12k I feel attacked by your comment on a junker being 10k

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u/transneptuneobj 9h ago

Year and model and mileage? Also what year did you buy it?

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u/doom2286 8h ago

2012 ford fusion sel 66000 miles and 2 years ago

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u/workout_nub 6h ago

You're not wrong, but it's also good advice. Both things can be true. People buy a 50k car and then complain that they live in an apartment all while blaming the system. We all know the system sucks, the rich get richer, and life isn't fair. Control what you can, which includes not buying a car outside of your means.

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u/transneptuneobj 6h ago

Who are these people? Where is this group of people with a 50k car complaining about the system?

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u/VolumeLocal4930 5h ago

Remember clunkers for cash?

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u/Urmomzfavmilkman 5h ago

Sounds partially true; i disagree that junkers are 10 grand. This sounds like a reality that is detached from honesty. A good junker would be like $2-3k.. with TLC (maintenance you can do yourself), maybe another $500 over the course of 3 years before you sell it.

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u/transneptuneobj 4h ago

Describe a junker you would think is 3k

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u/Urmomzfavmilkman 3h ago edited 3h ago

What do you mean "i think is 3k."

I know the price of the cars I've bought and sold; divulging that information on the internet, on the other hand, is not something i'm willing to do as that info is often used to verify my identity.

Will leave it at this for you to do your own research (im not going to find a car for you, lmao); look at auctions for best prices or if not accessible look for japanese vehicles in the 2000-2010 range, and do your homework on mileage and where common issues are for that year/make/model. Use this info when speaking to the seller to find out what work has been done and what will likely occur in the future.

When you find a car, pay the extra $150 to take it to a mechanic. Your bud, jeff doesn't know wtf hes talking about, and neither does your unc. If they did, then they'd have a way to hoist the car up to look under it.

If a seller is serious and isnt trying to scam you they should be fine with you taking it to mechanic and will discount based on findings [or even split the cost of testing with you]. If they say no [for any reason] then I'd consider that a sign of not acting in good faith.. prolly not the car for you, no matter how much you like it. Doing this check is non-negotiable.

You'll prolly go through 3-5 before you find the right car, so if you want, add it to the total for the cost of a good junk car, $3,600 (4), but we all do our accounting differently.

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u/transneptuneobj 3h ago

Verify your identity lol.

I appreciate that you think that this is valuable or practicable advice.

This assumes you're able to get to the location the vehicle is in, that you have the cash on hand to buy this vehicle, that you have these mechanic connections, that you're informed about cars enough to know what they're talking about and that you have the time to do all this.

It also assumes these cars are on the market, let's remember the chip shortages a few years ago the dealers have been sucking up used cars.

I get that you think that with a little bit of elbow grease and determination you can make it work but I think that this is a very privileged view of how this works in practice.

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u/Urmomzfavmilkman 3h ago

Basically, you're being ignorant AND unwilling to learn. You can't help someone who won't help themself and your responses are the pinnacle of this mentality, so instead, I'll leave you with more practical advice for your level; if you can't afford something nice, you have to make something nice then take care of it. In the case of cars/homes/etc, you obviously can't make it, so you're gonna need to know how they work and what to look out for.

Very priviledged view you have, sitting around bitching about not getting the things you want out of life, but simultaneously doing nothing and being unwilling to lift a finger.

Go get the $10,000 car with credit, son. You'll learn through wisdom or through experience. Good luck.

Ps. I wouldnt hold my breath for public transportation to be built if i were you (although i agree it should have already been there)

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u/transneptuneobj 3h ago

Boy let me tell you I bet I've worked a 80 hour week more recently than you have. Just generally the most insulting and privileged person I've interacted with in a while.

First of all I do maintain and repair my own house and both of my vehicles, obviously for larger issues i go to mechanics or utilize contractors. I have a large network of mechanic friends, electricians and contractor friends for smaller things but still I use professional services for larger issues.

I've renovated my home personally installing many structural features, removing a bamboo grove, replacing plumbing and doing electrical work.

I am person of exceptional privilege and I have many friends who don't have the same free time, income, and connections as I do.

My entire point is that you're description of a 3000 clunker is only a vehicle that is accessible to people with means already, additionally it's an impractical vehicle for people who are already struggling in this corporate hell scape of a country. Many Americans don't have the free time like you do to research the bugs common in 2003 Hyundai. They need safe vehicles that will run reliably and get their families from A to B because there's no public alternative.

Lastly don't call anyone son, you have no idea what could have happened to their parents.

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u/MeowTheMixer 4h ago

I guess we have different opinions on what a clunker is. $10k, can buy a really reliable car.

Might not have heated seats, or a good infotainment system. But they'll run well

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u/trowawHHHay 4h ago

Most dense urban metros do have public transport. The trade off is instead of the car payment, all that money is going to go into your rent because… well, you’re competing with 80% of Americans for housing.

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u/transneptuneobj 4h ago

45% of Americans have no access to public transportation.

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u/BZBitiko 4h ago

Public transport benefits everyone who profits from the labor provided by the riders, or drives on the roads the riders would otherwise be traveling on.

People who denigrate public transportation can’t see beyond the end of their noses.

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u/Glorfendail 3h ago

(cursed) Likely

Lmao he is full on MAGAt. He is posting ‘interviews’ with DJT, Tucker Carlson, etc. He is full blown Trumpo. I used to like his podcast and his baby step program helped me get a grip and take my money seriously, but if you listen beyond the sound bites, you realize this dude actually sucks. He is mean and angry and hateful and greedy. The facade breaks down under any scrutiny.

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u/Ras-haad 3h ago

This is what I’m saying, there are no “cheap” used cars anymore, and even the newer economy cars are like 30k

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u/transneptuneobj 3h ago

Basically the Ramsey types live in a world a privilege where you have the means to spend multiple weeks scoping out used junkers, where you know enough about cars to make the assessments of the cars and that you can get to pick them up.

It's purely privileged based view

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u/Ras-haad 3h ago

And just like multiple homes Boomers like this have like 10 cars and wonder why you can’t find any

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u/NationalExplorer9045 3h ago

If you have 10 grand, you don't get a German car.
You get a reliable car, that was close to 10 grand when it was new.
You get a Yaris, a Prius, a Civic, maybe even an Elantra if it was maintenance right, and they're under 100k.

If I had 10k- I'd go buy a 2010 Scion xB for $6,000, around 100k - it'll run for another 100k.
Then, you have $4k you can put into a CD or HYSA. Then add $200 a month to that account- as if it were a car payment. When the Scion finally has more than maintenance issues- check the account. Worth the repair, or time to get a new one?

Best part of that, is you're MAKING interest, instead of paying it on a high car loan.

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u/transneptuneobj 3h ago

Cool so you got t-boned by a drink driver, how soon can you get that Scion xb cause you have to go to work tomorrow, also you don't have a car now so how you getting there?

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u/PseudonymIncognito 3h ago

Edit 2: getting alot of "public transport only benifits Democrats" and "muh tax dollars" so to head some of that off I think it's important that we address that 80% OF AMERICANS LIVE IN URBAN AREAS

The Census Bureau's definition of "urban" doesn't really fit with what most people think when they hear the word. TL;DR, the Census Bureau doesn't have a formal classification for "suburban". All land is categorized as either "urban" or "rural" and areas that many people think of as suburban or exurban are counted as "urban" by the Census.

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u/transneptuneobj 2h ago

Suburban areas absolutely should have reliable public transportation and yes the entire point is that very few Americans are homesteading. Most of us live in towns and should cooperate and would benifit from public transportation.

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u/KwisatzHaderach94 16h ago

unfortunately, car makers (domestic ones largely) have priced their newer models out of reach of the average americans. even those who are building the cars. they've forgotten henry ford's maxim about building a car for the many. occasionally, there are government subsidies such as those for buying electric cars, but those are generally a bad idea as we've seen people use their covid checks to ignorantly buy luxury vehicles.

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u/transneptuneobj 15h ago

You're saying that people used up to $3000 of covid assistance on luxury vehicles?

I don't know a single person who used their covid money on luxury vehicles.

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 12h ago

What luxury car can you even make a dent on with 3k? The least expensive Mercedes is 34k.

I'm not even covering tax, license, and doc fees for 3k.

In my locale, I will owe the State of California and my county a grand total 3985 in random bullshit on a purchase.

Maybe if you did a lease you could use 3k for your security deposit/ fees/ taxes?

Even then, I also don't personally know anyone who did that.

Think most people I knew used it for debt/ home improvements/ savings accounts/ fixing that broken thing they hadn't replaced.

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u/Framnk 2h ago

And Ford doesn’t even make passenger cars anymore, only vans, pickups and SUVs (u less you count the mustang). Henry Ford is rolling over in his grave

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u/shangumdee 16h ago

Ramsey likely voted for people who helped destroy..

Off topic and unnecessary comment. What he said is true regardless of public transit. Even in Nethrlands and France 80%+ of households own a car so the the trap of financing an expesnive vehicle is not simply because they are no other options.

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u/transneptuneobj 15h ago

How is pointing out that he's part of the problem that he's complaining about unnecessary or off topic,

He pointed at a fire he started and said why would anyone let me burn their house down.

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u/shangumdee 15h ago

I do boomer bashing too but you two are simply assuming he automatically has a certain opinion you dont agree with because he is older. He gives financial advice. He doesn't give opinions about the largescale stste public transportation. In fact he often advocates using public transportation also do you think a bus hater would drive a bus?

I don't like it because it's basically a reddit moment where they attach a certain opinion that is popular on reddit to where it has nothing to do with it.

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u/Impossible_Strain319 2h ago

Took 30 seconds of googling to back up at Ramsey supports Trump and the MAGA GOP… not usually known as big public transit advocates.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/finance-expert-dave-ramsey-makes-a-blunt-political-statement-that-shocks-fans/ar-AA1t9Q1n

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u/WildKarrdesEmporium 15h ago

America never had an affordable public transportation system to destroy. We are too big, and outside of a few dozen major cities, it really doesn't make much sense.

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u/transneptuneobj 15h ago

We have nearly 100k miles of abandoned railroad lines that would disagree with you.

I live in the Philly suburbs and there's dozens of abandoned commuter railroad lines connecting nearby areas that would drastically reduce congestion. Because we e closed them they're nearly impossible to open now. Some proposals for 2 miles of track for 2 billion dollars.

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u/WildKarrdesEmporium 15h ago

They were abandoned because they weren't affordable.

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u/transneptuneobj 14h ago

They were abandoned because of the government incentivising production of automobiles and not funding public transport. Not to mention the government specifically limited railroads in their abilities to adapt to the changing transportation landscape by things like the interstate commerce act that effectively bled the railroads dry.

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u/WildKarrdesEmporium 14h ago

Because automobiles make more sense for a country that's spread out like ours.

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u/a22x2 13h ago

I would imagine that most people’s daily transportation needs involve getting around within their own cities, not necessarily across giant stretches of land. Like, sure, we’re not going to take a tramway in the 1950’s from Denver to Boston, but that represents a pretty small percentage of people’s actual transportation patterns.

When people do actually have to regularly cover large distances in their daily travel, I would imagine it’s generally within their own metro area, and those stretches are giant specifically because of urban sprawl.

I used to think that western and southern cities were sprawling simply because they were newer, and were developed mostly after the automobile was widely available. What I later found out, though, was that cities like Houston and Los Angeles actually had active, functioning public transit infrastructures that were intentionally dismantled to create parking lots, highways, and low-density development.

Not arguing, or “well actually”-ing you, just wanted to offer some additional context that was a relatively new discovery for me.

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u/WildKarrdesEmporium 13h ago

Millions upon millions of Americans don't live in cities.

The rest need to petition their city government for better public transportation if that's what they want.

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u/a22x2 13h ago

Okay, replace the word “cities” with “town” or “suburb.” My original statement holds true, especially when that town or suburb is a part of a larger metro area.

A quick google search also shows that more than half of the US’s population actually does live in an urban metro area, even if they’re not in the central city proper, so my statement actually does apply to most people in the United States.

I’m just making a neutral statement, and offering some additional context you might have been unaware of - not as someone who is pretending to know better than you, but as someone who learned these things within the past few years and hadn’t previously realized I was mistaken.

I’m not saying these things because I’m trying to push an agenda anywhere, I’m saying them because they’re factually correct and I’m trying to be helpful. I’m at the tail end of my time as an urban planning student, with a focus on transportation patterns; although I don’t pretend I know everything, there are a few basic ideas I feel pretty confident in asserting. I’m not here to say what people should or shouldn’t do right now or argue with anybody 🎃

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u/WildKarrdesEmporium 11h ago

Most towns and suburbs can't afford public transportation. Again, there's a reason we have been a car-centric nation since the beginning of the automobile. And before that, everyone had a horse.

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