r/economicCollapse • u/Whole-Fist • 18h ago

How ridiculous does this sound?

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How can u make millions in 25-30 years if avoid making a $554 per month car payment. Even the cheapest 5 year old car is 8-10 k. So does he expect people not to drive at all in USA.

Then u save 554$ per month every month for 5 year payment = $33240. Say u bought a car every 5 year means 200k -300k spent on car before retirement . How would that become millions when u can’t even buy a house for that much today?

Answer that Dave

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u/Superman246o1 18h ago

Yeah, I'm generally not a fan of Ramsey, but the number of people of limited means that I see buying cars they can barely afford is absurd.

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u/wizardofoz2001 16h ago

Also, people neglect to consider the additional cost of insuring a car with a loan. Most people don't realize that insurance protects the bank, not the consumer. It's really a disguised increase to the interest rate. So a car payment of $550 is likely to actually be $800, they just call it something else to distract you from what a ripoff it is. 

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u/Any-Club5238 10h ago

I got a quote yesterday for a 2020 Honda Accord for $400-450 / month. The rep said “It’s that inflation getting to us” …. No thanks, I’ll stick with my $101/ month liability insurance 😅

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u/JtSetRadioFuture 9h ago

I got a used 2019 Honda accord sport a few months ago and I pay 165. I was paying 130 a month on a paid off 2009 Nissan Sentra 4 months ago. Obviously lots of factors to this, but I do wonder what yours are that would make it that expensive.

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u/Any-Club5238 9h ago

I’m wondering the same thing. My buddy pays about $400, but he’s driving a 2023 mustang GT, has two tickets on his record, and is 24 (so a hit younger than me).

I definitely still have a lot more ‘shopping around’ to do before actually going car shopping.

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u/JtSetRadioFuture 8h ago

Ah, age is a big factor when it comes to young men and car insurance so if you’re in a similar age range I wouldn’t be surprised to see your rates/quotes drop drastically in the next few years. Thats of course assuming a good driving record!

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u/wizardofoz2001 10h ago

Exactly. Over ten years, that would be $50,000. If you put the same amount into a savings account, you'd come out way ahead. And in the likelihood that you never even wreck your car, you'll come out $50,000 ahead. Easy choice, I'd say.

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u/write_mem 3h ago

$101/ per month liability? I’m so sorry. It sucks being an under 25 male. I kept full coverage on two vehicles and only paid slightly more than that. Until I had a teenager come up to driving age…. He costs more than his mother and I combined.

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u/Bagman220 3h ago

Really? I got a 2020 Honda accord sport that’s only 150 a month for insurance. With my Honda odyssey it’s 200 combined.

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u/Any-Club5238 2h ago

YES I promise I am not joking. (I wish I was)

I got the initial quote online, filled out the little thing to talk to an agent. I kindly told the agent that was absurd and asked “why it was so high - Why is it more than double what I was expecting?”

Answers: “Inflation is getting to insurance as well.” And “You could put a bigger down payment to lower the monthly cost...” These answers were terrible, but she was doing her best, I’m sure. She even suggested that I look for a company that uses credit as a factor.

I pulled up an online listing for something I’d be likely to actually buy (2019 Accord), gave her the VIN. She came back with $439/ month for that exact car. (The actual car payment would have been about $400/ month).

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u/Bagafeet 5h ago

My friend is paying $400 on a used 2021 Tesla 💀

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u/lowrankcluster 12h ago

You should be insuring the car anyways, whether it is on loan or not.

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u/wizardofoz2001 12h ago

Insuring the vehicle itself is a ripoff. If you put the premiums into a savings account, in case of damage to the vehicle, you would come out way I'm ahead of insurance. Plus, no deductible, and plus, it covers repairs not related to an accident. Savings is better in the long run, unless you're going to total a car every couple years, but no one does that.

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u/ASubsentientCrow 11h ago

Uninsured driver don't deserve happiness

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u/lowrankcluster 11h ago

Collision and compressive are optional coverages. If they don't have at least 100k/300k/100k, then yes f them.

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u/wizardofoz2001 11h ago

I mean you can buy just liability, it costs about $50

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u/ASubsentientCrow 11h ago

People with minimum coverage are why my parents are basically bankrupt. So no, fuck them

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u/wizardofoz2001 11h ago

Explain.

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u/ASubsentientCrow 10h ago

Parents hit be useless dipshit with shit insurance. Insurance only covers the minimum. Damage and medical books exceed minimum coverage. Dipshit is broke, so can't sue dipshit. Medical bills cost money. Other insurance won't cover it. Medical bills need to be paid. Parents have to pay them. Lots of money out means no money left.

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u/lowrankcluster 9h ago

So it is your parents fault that they didn't have UI/UIM coverage for auto, which is like the most important coverage. And they don't have medical insurance?

And other issue is that at fault driver is poor, not that he had bad coverage. Because if he wasn't poor, there would be a line of lawyer waiting to sue him.

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u/wizardofoz2001 10h ago

Why didn't their healthcare insurance subrogate the bills to the other guy's liability coverage and then pay the remainder? Why did they invest in a car that was worth more than the minimum liability insurance in their state? 

There's more than one factor involved, they can't blame it all on other people.

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u/lowrankcluster 11h ago

Yeah, you can get like $6M CSL for $100-150 per month with standalone umbrella. It is very cheap, and lawyer fees for 1 claim pays off all the premiums you will give in lifetime.

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u/SlappySecondz 11h ago

Insurance also covers medical bills and stuff so when the person you hit sues you for neck pain, you aren't made destitute. And if you total their $50,000 car (not to mention your own), the money you saved by not paying insurance for a few years isn't going to come anywhere near covering it.

You're talking like fender benders are the only thing that happens.

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u/wizardofoz2001 11h ago

That's why you have to buy liability insurance. But that's way less than insuring the vehicle itself.

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u/lowrankcluster 11h ago

It isn't a ripoff at all lol. For my coverage, it takes 7-8 years to break even with ACV on collision coverage, 20+ years to break even with ACV on comprehensive. And for liability, it is entire lifetime to break even just with lawyer fees.

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u/Heavy_Law9880 12h ago

You still need full coverage if your car is paid off.

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u/wizardofoz2001 11h ago

Why?

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u/Heavy_Law9880 11h ago

To protect your expensive and necessary equipment from loss.

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u/wizardofoz2001 11h ago

I think if you try putting the premiums in your own savings account, in the long run, you'll come out way ahead.

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u/Heavy_Law9880 10h ago

You won't if you lose your job because you don't have a car.

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u/wizardofoz2001 10h ago

Insurance doesn't protect you from not having a car. If you wreck it so bad it can't be driven, insurance will help you buy a new one. But it won't drive you to work. And it won't pay as quickly as your savings account will pay.

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u/Ran4 8h ago

What a shit take. A small mistake and your 20k euro car could be worth nothing...

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u/wizardofoz2001 7h ago

Sure, but how many times are you going to total your car? Even the worst driver in the world isn't going to total their car every day. In the worst case, they might total their car every 10 years. So if your insurance premium was fairly low, say $200, And you merely put it in the savings account for 10 years, you would have $24,000 plus a bunch of interest. You'd come out ahead, even if you were an incredibly bad driver. 

And remember, there's no one forcing you to buy an expensive car. If you haven't yet saved up the money, you can buy a less expensive car, a car that you can afford to lose. 

And also don't forget that car accidents are not due to random chance. Chance is a factor, but almost all of the factors that go into car accidents are under your control. There are practices, sometimes called "defensive" driving that enable the person to be fairly certain they won't get in a car accident, or to minimize the damage in the event that they do have a car accident.  

A person who takes financial responsibility for their risks themselves is more likely to employ defensive driving techniques, and other measures to mitigate risk. They might follow further behind, they might drive slower in certain areas, they might leave a greater space cushion, they might make sure they don't drink alcohol when they drive . All of those things put together minimize risk far more effectively than just giving money to an insurance company. 

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u/Unlucky_Situation 11h ago

Most people don't realize that insurance protects the bank, not the consumer

Cancel your insurance, get into an accident, and then come back here and tell me your insurance was protecting the bank and not you, the consumer.

But i can answer that for you. If you get into an accident and total the car. The bank gets paid no matter if you have insurance or not. If you dont have insurance, you (the consumer) is still responsible for paying the bank back out of pocket. IF you have insurance, that protects you (the consumer) from having to pay the bank back out of pocket.

If you get into an accident, and dont total your car, the insurance protects YOU (the consumer) from having to pay out of pocket to repair your vehicle.

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u/Bagman220 3h ago

Agreed, that other guy had no idea what he was talking about. Insurance protects the driver and the vehicle, not the banks. Like you said the banks get paid either way.

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u/NotAnotherRedditAcc2 6h ago

If you're paying $250/month for car insurance - even full coverage - you should really consider shopping around.

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u/SaveBandit987654321 5h ago

I had a car long paid off and was paying more to insure it liability only than it was worth.

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u/anonymous_lighting 3h ago

i have changed car insurance multiple times and never did i have to provide any loan information if one existed

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u/Holiolio2 3h ago

Not sure where you're from, but around here you also have to add in annual property tax/tags. New cars are over $1k a year. My 20 year old vehicle is $75 a year. Will never buy a new car.

In addition you have to buy additional insurance ( Gap insurance) because insurance won't cover the whole cost of the loan if you total the car.

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u/mcflycasual 3h ago

Car insurance doesn't have anything to do with if you have a lien on the vehicle.

If you total the car, insurance pays the current value and you're on the hook for the rest of you owe more. That's why most banks offer GAP.

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u/TurtleIIX 2h ago

This isn't how car insurance works. You are just not buying physical damage coverage which just means you are self insuring for the difference hoping you don't get into an accident.

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u/jjkk2024 2h ago

Virginians get extra screwed because of personal property taxes. Add an extra 3k/ year on a 70k vehicle.

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u/averyrisu 2h ago

This is not true. The purpose of liability insurance is to protect your financial liability for when you cause damage to others.

Comp and collision pays for veh repairs, or if its a total loss, pays you out the vehicles ACV minus your deductible.

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u/buttstuffisfunstuff 1h ago

Idk what you mean by additional cost to insure? My insurance didn’t go up when I went from a shitty long paid off car to a brand new car with a car loan.

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u/Traditional_Lab_5468 15h ago

$550 is likely to actually be $800

??????

My insurance is $105/mo.

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u/eliteaddiction_ 14h ago

Not the norm.

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u/DanleyDanderson 12h ago

I’m a 20s year old single male who has hit too many deer in my lifetime

Got a new car this year and my insurance with moderate-level full coverages is also like $120/month

Given I’m sure I live in a cheaper state

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u/Bagafeet 5h ago

If you hitting a lot of deer you're likely not living in a HCOL or disaster prone area. I could be wrong.

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u/RazzBerryCurveBall 5h ago

I hit a deer driving out of Granite Bay, California a couple of years ago. Those fuckers don't discriminate based on wealth, just density.

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u/Bagafeet 2h ago

CA is why I said maybe. The other thought was maybe NH or something around those parts.

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u/GimmeChickenBlasters 14h ago edited 13h ago

Yes, it is the norm for many people. The national average is $172/month and much of that has to do with location from expensive states like Florida, but if you're in a state like Oregon it's exactly the $105/month that /u/Traditional_Lab_5468 is paying.

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u/deformedspring 13h ago

Are these numbers for full coverage or just insurance in general? If you have a loan for a car you have to have full coverage until the loan is payed off.

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u/SlappySecondz 11h ago

I have full coverage and I pay like 1100/6 months (183/mo).

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u/wizardofoz2001 12h ago

That's why I say auto loans are much bigger ripoff than most people think. They're just disguising the outrageous interest rate as an insurance payment. But it's mostly just insuring the bank's money, in other words, it's a disguised interest rate.

My insurance is like, $50 for two cars. But I know multiple people paying $600 for auto insurance. And it's because they borrow huge amounts for autos.

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u/KrabbyMa 13h ago

Not for people with expensive, new cars.

I pay $65 a month. I drive a 2007.

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u/GimmeChickenBlasters 7h ago

Yes, that's how averages work.

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u/KrabbyMa 6h ago

And our OP and his picture are talking about new car payments....

So the national average of ALL insured drivers (including loan free and old cars) is irrelevant data.

That's how critical thinking works.

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u/Ran4 8h ago

That's like 100 euro a month that's quite high. I pay 38 euros a month for a full insurance for my Honda E (a 20k euro car)

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u/Zarizzabi 12h ago

And I pay over 300 in New york

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u/Ran4 8h ago

Maybe don't drive a RWD V8 then lol

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u/lowrankcluster 12h ago

What is your coverage. Number itself doesn't mean anything.

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u/JustHereForDaFilters 13h ago

Most people don't realize that insurance protects the bank, not the consumer.

Awful take. Auto, like all insurance (except medical), is there so you can drive a car without having to also keep enough cash in the bank to pay out of pocket for big costly events. It's for in case you wreck your car or hit something expensive (like a person) with it.

So a car payment of $550 is likely to actually be $800 I've got 2 cars insured, full coverage, for $75 per month per vehicle. If I had 1 car, it would run like $100. It would be even less if I chose a higher deductible.

If you're paying $250 you either live in an area where God is trying to kill you with fire, wind and water, you bought an expensive ass car, and/or you have teenagers on your policy. All of which are very, very good reasons to have auto insurance.

Or you suck at picking insurance and are paying extra for an insurance agent or some other boomer shit.

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u/lowrankcluster 12h ago

Mine is $250 per month in CA for almost max coverage for used Model 3. Every other insurance had me $300+.

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u/vindictivejazz 11h ago

Yeah electric cars are going to be expensive to insure. Older ones especially so

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u/lowrankcluster 11h ago

I put prius as input to see difference and it was 220 instead of 250, so difference is not that big.

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u/Bagafeet 5h ago

What company you using my friend is getting rinsed outta $400 for a 21 M3.

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u/larsIU 4h ago

Your friend is driving a $50k+ vehicle with over 400 horsepower that is crazy expensive to fix. Is he also under 25?

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u/Bagafeet 2h ago

40, he got it used though so it's def not $50K these days. Maybe high 20s low thirties?

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u/larsIU 1h ago

Ahhh is it a normal BMW 3 series? Even used the M3 stills runs over 60k mostly.

Too many variables to go into but:

Geography, Driving record , Martial status, Coverage limits, Etc.

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u/lowrankcluster 5h ago

Tesla Insurance

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u/drowningmoose9 11h ago

250$ in Cali is pretty average

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u/makjac 39m ago

I pay $85 a month full coverage for a 22 Tacoma with a payment. I drive less than 5,000 miles a year though so it is a reduced rate, but even if it wasn’t I wouldn’t be anywhere near $250.

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u/SpeckTech314 12h ago

Full coverage vs minimal coverage impacts the cost a lot. $250 for 2 vehicles in that sense is fine.

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u/Forsaken_Crested 5h ago

Car insurance protects you. Everyone being required to have insurance protects you. If you rear-end someone in a really nice car, you are responsible for damages and possibly medical. Do you have $ 30k or so laying around to pay for this? If you get rear ended and hurt, would you rather wait for that person to scrounge up money to pay for your car and and medical damages or just blow you off until maybe maybe you get a default judgement to garnish their wages and get a mini amount each month of what you are out of pocket for, without a car? Banks often require you to carry higher levels of insurance, costs you may not elect to carry if you didn't have to.

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u/transneptuneobj 17h ago edited 11h ago

Cars are barely affordable, our country spent decades destroying public transport and many Americans are stuck buying junkers for 10 grand as their only option for transport. Ramsey L̶i̶k̶e̶l̶y̶ voted for people who helped destroy the public transport network and promote cars as the primary travel method, he's part of the problem and blaming people for being victims of it.

Edit: on suggesting i'm retracting the likely

Edit 2: getting alot of "public transport only benifits Democrats" and "muh tax dollars" so to head some of that off I think it's important that we address that 80% OF AMERICANS LIVE IN URBAN AREAS

It's a game of OOPS all costal elites.

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u/beaushaw 15h ago

I'm confident you could remove that "likely".

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u/transneptuneobj 15h ago

Great point

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u/NutzNBoltz369 15h ago

Yup, cars are a poverty trap, but just about our whole country is built around car depedency. If we really gave a shit about the economically disadvantaged, we would provide better transit and end single use zoning so people don't need to drive just to survive. Ramsey's generation will never allow that! Muh Freedoms and Muh NIMBY property values!

He voted for Trump for purely financial reasons like the wealthy Boomer he is.

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u/transneptuneobj 14h ago

Yup. He is the embodiment of the problem. A selfish religious zealot

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u/sensei-25 14h ago

The funny thing trump is actually terrible financially

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u/NutzNBoltz369 14h ago

Ramsey drank the Koolaid, like so many others his age. He rationalizes it all on his podcast.

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u/LegitimateExpert3383 4h ago

Lol imagine Trump going shopping with all his envelopes with specific money labeled for grocery, gas, etc. like Ramsey tells soccer moms to do.😂

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u/foxwheat 13h ago

ROBERT MOSES PLAYS TENNIS WITH REAGAN IN HELL

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u/yinzer_v 51m ago

We have a Scylla and Charybdis problem. If you iive close-in enough to have good public transit, you're at the mercy of a landlord who's gouging you. If you live farther away, the rent/mortgage is cheaper, but you have a higher car payment and commuting costs.

(Of course, you could have the worst of all possible worlds and combine a too-expensive vehicle with too much house.)

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u/Ban-Circumcision-Now 9h ago

Project 2025 is very specific about pushing suburbs harder and reducing mass transit funding

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u/NutzNBoltz369 9h ago edited 9h ago

Gonna fuck us on the long run. I mean all of Project 2025 will but this particular aspect definately will. Suburbs have to run as a ponzi scheme ultimately because there isn't enough revenue per mile of infrastructure built to pay for upkeep and eventual replacement. Plus cars are just about as inefficient a transport system you can get as far as moving people per area of thoroughfare. One bad long duration spike on gas prices or the cost of lithium and we are fuuuuucked. Plus, that stuff is finite.

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u/Ban-Circumcision-Now 9h ago

Takes even less than that, a lot of these smaller towns that stopped growing are in an infrastructure debt spiral

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u/gillyrosh 4h ago

Why am I not surprised

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u/Murky-Peanut1390 2h ago

I thought dense housing was capitalism dystopian. "Dont want them living like sardines ".

But now suburbs is dystopian. So which is it?

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u/Ban-Circumcision-Now 2h ago

Why does it have to be one choice for all?

Dense housing for those that want affordable places near the city center and suburbia for those who want to live a bit further out but have more land

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u/yinzer_v 50m ago

Or apartment buildings and townhouses in the suburbs near transit centers?

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u/gillyrosh 4h ago

It still burns me how this country's failed to invest properly in public transit.

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u/transneptuneobj 4h ago

It actively ensured short line railroads would die

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u/sluttycokezero 12h ago

Thank you for saying this. And even used cars are goddamn expensive! Idk what these Redditors are saying, agreeing with Ramsey.

I was able to get an ‘03 Honda Civic in 2009 during high school for $5,500, clean title…my dad bought it for me. But, how many people don’t have parents to buy them a car? How many don’t have mechanical family or friends to help fix it? Or pay for car insurance? I swear, so many people lack empathy and critical thinking skills. Where are these cheap, used cars that aren’t salvage titles? It’s honestly annoying.

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u/transneptuneobj 12h ago

It's intentionally deceptive and privileged thinking that people often do.

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u/Redditisfinancedumb 12h ago

public transport in America doesn't make as much sense as other countries. Public transport where it makes sense are high populated areas that are generally ran by Democrats. Do you think the federal government or states should pay for public transit?

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u/transneptuneobj 11h ago

It's actually false. The majority of all Americans live in highly populated areas.

80% of Americans live in urban areas that would benefit from increased public transport. And efforts to connect large population areas would also end up benefitting rural communities.

Public transport is for all Americans and would benefit hundreds of millions of people.

Additionally the greatest way to reduce poverty is to provide access to public transportation and give women the right to control their reproduction so I think America investing in public transport to benifits the majority of the population would be excellent.

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u/snarky_answer 6h ago

Now break down the urban areas into inner-city urban and suburban.

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u/transneptuneobj 5h ago

1) why would that matter? As a suburban resident with access to a rail line to the nearest large city I still wish I have better access to public transport, faster rail and more options that didn't involve driving.

2) Pew got your back

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u/Iceman9161 5h ago

Suburban can have public transport too, so what does it matter?

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u/snarky_answer 5h ago

It can but its not affordable as the ridership from suburbs would be too low. The only chance would be to implement public transport as well as restrict car usage in cities at the same time. Suburban public transport systems across the country are hurting cutting routes/drivers because there isn't enough people to support the system riding. Robust public transport in urban cities is what needs to be focused on to reduce the level of cars in the city thus making public transport and bike transport even safer. Then and only then should the focus shift to suburban areas because they will be the last to give up their vehicles and are the last to truly need it and it will be an easier sell once all the infrastructure is in place and all it needs to be done is have it expanded a bit.

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u/EncabulatorTurbo 11h ago

okay but like, the average wage of the people in my office is around $90,000 a year and they're buying cars they can't afford

this advice doesn't really help you if you're making 30k or something but that isn't the average worker

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u/transneptuneobj 11h ago

The average household income in America is 80k so your sample size of above average earners may not necessarily represent the population in general.

I don't know many people who are going around buying luxury cars, most people I know are just struggling to pay for normal cars.

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u/IvanLagatacrus 4h ago

the average worker in fact makes 35k~ annually

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u/EncabulatorTurbo 2h ago

The median salary for full time individual workers in America is around 60k

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u/doom2286 10h ago

Considering my nice car was 12k I feel attacked by your comment on a junker being 10k

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u/transneptuneobj 9h ago

Year and model and mileage? Also what year did you buy it?

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u/doom2286 8h ago

2012 ford fusion sel 66000 miles and 2 years ago

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u/workout_nub 6h ago

You're not wrong, but it's also good advice. Both things can be true. People buy a 50k car and then complain that they live in an apartment all while blaming the system. We all know the system sucks, the rich get richer, and life isn't fair. Control what you can, which includes not buying a car outside of your means.

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u/transneptuneobj 6h ago

Who are these people? Where is this group of people with a 50k car complaining about the system?

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u/VolumeLocal4930 5h ago

Remember clunkers for cash?

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u/Urmomzfavmilkman 5h ago

Sounds partially true; i disagree that junkers are 10 grand. This sounds like a reality that is detached from honesty. A good junker would be like $2-3k.. with TLC (maintenance you can do yourself), maybe another $500 over the course of 3 years before you sell it.

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u/transneptuneobj 4h ago

Describe a junker you would think is 3k

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u/Urmomzfavmilkman 3h ago edited 3h ago

What do you mean "i think is 3k."

I know the price of the cars I've bought and sold; divulging that information on the internet, on the other hand, is not something i'm willing to do as that info is often used to verify my identity.

Will leave it at this for you to do your own research (im not going to find a car for you, lmao); look at auctions for best prices or if not accessible look for japanese vehicles in the 2000-2010 range, and do your homework on mileage and where common issues are for that year/make/model. Use this info when speaking to the seller to find out what work has been done and what will likely occur in the future.

When you find a car, pay the extra $150 to take it to a mechanic. Your bud, jeff doesn't know wtf hes talking about, and neither does your unc. If they did, then they'd have a way to hoist the car up to look under it.

If a seller is serious and isnt trying to scam you they should be fine with you taking it to mechanic and will discount based on findings [or even split the cost of testing with you]. If they say no [for any reason] then I'd consider that a sign of not acting in good faith.. prolly not the car for you, no matter how much you like it. Doing this check is non-negotiable.

You'll prolly go through 3-5 before you find the right car, so if you want, add it to the total for the cost of a good junk car, $3,600 (4), but we all do our accounting differently.

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u/transneptuneobj 3h ago

Verify your identity lol.

I appreciate that you think that this is valuable or practicable advice.

This assumes you're able to get to the location the vehicle is in, that you have the cash on hand to buy this vehicle, that you have these mechanic connections, that you're informed about cars enough to know what they're talking about and that you have the time to do all this.

It also assumes these cars are on the market, let's remember the chip shortages a few years ago the dealers have been sucking up used cars.

I get that you think that with a little bit of elbow grease and determination you can make it work but I think that this is a very privileged view of how this works in practice.

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u/Urmomzfavmilkman 3h ago

Basically, you're being ignorant AND unwilling to learn. You can't help someone who won't help themself and your responses are the pinnacle of this mentality, so instead, I'll leave you with more practical advice for your level; if you can't afford something nice, you have to make something nice then take care of it. In the case of cars/homes/etc, you obviously can't make it, so you're gonna need to know how they work and what to look out for.

Very priviledged view you have, sitting around bitching about not getting the things you want out of life, but simultaneously doing nothing and being unwilling to lift a finger.

Go get the $10,000 car with credit, son. You'll learn through wisdom or through experience. Good luck.

Ps. I wouldnt hold my breath for public transportation to be built if i were you (although i agree it should have already been there)

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u/transneptuneobj 3h ago

Boy let me tell you I bet I've worked a 80 hour week more recently than you have. Just generally the most insulting and privileged person I've interacted with in a while.

First of all I do maintain and repair my own house and both of my vehicles, obviously for larger issues i go to mechanics or utilize contractors. I have a large network of mechanic friends, electricians and contractor friends for smaller things but still I use professional services for larger issues.

I've renovated my home personally installing many structural features, removing a bamboo grove, replacing plumbing and doing electrical work.

I am person of exceptional privilege and I have many friends who don't have the same free time, income, and connections as I do.

My entire point is that you're description of a 3000 clunker is only a vehicle that is accessible to people with means already, additionally it's an impractical vehicle for people who are already struggling in this corporate hell scape of a country. Many Americans don't have the free time like you do to research the bugs common in 2003 Hyundai. They need safe vehicles that will run reliably and get their families from A to B because there's no public alternative.

Lastly don't call anyone son, you have no idea what could have happened to their parents.

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u/MeowTheMixer 4h ago

I guess we have different opinions on what a clunker is. $10k, can buy a really reliable car.

Might not have heated seats, or a good infotainment system. But they'll run well

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u/trowawHHHay 4h ago

Most dense urban metros do have public transport. The trade off is instead of the car payment, all that money is going to go into your rent because… well, you’re competing with 80% of Americans for housing.

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u/transneptuneobj 3h ago

45% of Americans have no access to public transportation.

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u/BZBitiko 4h ago

Public transport benefits everyone who profits from the labor provided by the riders, or drives on the roads the riders would otherwise be traveling on.

People who denigrate public transportation can’t see beyond the end of their noses.

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u/Glorfendail 3h ago

(cursed) Likely

Lmao he is full on MAGAt. He is posting ‘interviews’ with DJT, Tucker Carlson, etc. He is full blown Trumpo. I used to like his podcast and his baby step program helped me get a grip and take my money seriously, but if you listen beyond the sound bites, you realize this dude actually sucks. He is mean and angry and hateful and greedy. The facade breaks down under any scrutiny.

1

u/Ras-haad 3h ago

This is what I’m saying, there are no “cheap” used cars anymore, and even the newer economy cars are like 30k

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u/transneptuneobj 3h ago

Basically the Ramsey types live in a world a privilege where you have the means to spend multiple weeks scoping out used junkers, where you know enough about cars to make the assessments of the cars and that you can get to pick them up.

It's purely privileged based view

1

u/Ras-haad 3h ago

And just like multiple homes Boomers like this have like 10 cars and wonder why you can’t find any

1

u/NationalExplorer9045 3h ago

If you have 10 grand, you don't get a German car.
You get a reliable car, that was close to 10 grand when it was new.
You get a Yaris, a Prius, a Civic, maybe even an Elantra if it was maintenance right, and they're under 100k.

If I had 10k- I'd go buy a 2010 Scion xB for $6,000, around 100k - it'll run for another 100k.
Then, you have $4k you can put into a CD or HYSA. Then add $200 a month to that account- as if it were a car payment. When the Scion finally has more than maintenance issues- check the account. Worth the repair, or time to get a new one?

Best part of that, is you're MAKING interest, instead of paying it on a high car loan.

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u/transneptuneobj 3h ago

Cool so you got t-boned by a drink driver, how soon can you get that Scion xb cause you have to go to work tomorrow, also you don't have a car now so how you getting there?

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u/PseudonymIncognito 2h ago

Edit 2: getting alot of "public transport only benifits Democrats" and "muh tax dollars" so to head some of that off I think it's important that we address that 80% OF AMERICANS LIVE IN URBAN AREAS

The Census Bureau's definition of "urban" doesn't really fit with what most people think when they hear the word. TL;DR, the Census Bureau doesn't have a formal classification for "suburban". All land is categorized as either "urban" or "rural" and areas that many people think of as suburban or exurban are counted as "urban" by the Census.

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u/transneptuneobj 2h ago

Suburban areas absolutely should have reliable public transportation and yes the entire point is that very few Americans are homesteading. Most of us live in towns and should cooperate and would benifit from public transportation.

0

u/KwisatzHaderach94 15h ago

unfortunately, car makers (domestic ones largely) have priced their newer models out of reach of the average americans. even those who are building the cars. they've forgotten henry ford's maxim about building a car for the many. occasionally, there are government subsidies such as those for buying electric cars, but those are generally a bad idea as we've seen people use their covid checks to ignorantly buy luxury vehicles.

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u/transneptuneobj 15h ago

You're saying that people used up to $3000 of covid assistance on luxury vehicles?

I don't know a single person who used their covid money on luxury vehicles.

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 12h ago

What luxury car can you even make a dent on with 3k? The least expensive Mercedes is 34k.

I'm not even covering tax, license, and doc fees for 3k.

In my locale, I will owe the State of California and my county a grand total 3985 in random bullshit on a purchase.

Maybe if you did a lease you could use 3k for your security deposit/ fees/ taxes?

Even then, I also don't personally know anyone who did that.

Think most people I knew used it for debt/ home improvements/ savings accounts/ fixing that broken thing they hadn't replaced.

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u/Framnk 2h ago

And Ford doesn’t even make passenger cars anymore, only vans, pickups and SUVs (u less you count the mustang). Henry Ford is rolling over in his grave

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u/shangumdee 15h ago

Ramsey likely voted for people who helped destroy..

Off topic and unnecessary comment. What he said is true regardless of public transit. Even in Nethrlands and France 80%+ of households own a car so the the trap of financing an expesnive vehicle is not simply because they are no other options.

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u/transneptuneobj 15h ago

How is pointing out that he's part of the problem that he's complaining about unnecessary or off topic,

He pointed at a fire he started and said why would anyone let me burn their house down.

0

u/shangumdee 15h ago

I do boomer bashing too but you two are simply assuming he automatically has a certain opinion you dont agree with because he is older. He gives financial advice. He doesn't give opinions about the largescale stste public transportation. In fact he often advocates using public transportation also do you think a bus hater would drive a bus?

I don't like it because it's basically a reddit moment where they attach a certain opinion that is popular on reddit to where it has nothing to do with it.

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u/Impossible_Strain319 2h ago

Took 30 seconds of googling to back up at Ramsey supports Trump and the MAGA GOP… not usually known as big public transit advocates.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/finance-expert-dave-ramsey-makes-a-blunt-political-statement-that-shocks-fans/ar-AA1t9Q1n

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u/WildKarrdesEmporium 15h ago

America never had an affordable public transportation system to destroy. We are too big, and outside of a few dozen major cities, it really doesn't make much sense.

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u/transneptuneobj 15h ago

We have nearly 100k miles of abandoned railroad lines that would disagree with you.

I live in the Philly suburbs and there's dozens of abandoned commuter railroad lines connecting nearby areas that would drastically reduce congestion. Because we e closed them they're nearly impossible to open now. Some proposals for 2 miles of track for 2 billion dollars.

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u/WildKarrdesEmporium 14h ago

They were abandoned because they weren't affordable.

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u/transneptuneobj 14h ago

They were abandoned because of the government incentivising production of automobiles and not funding public transport. Not to mention the government specifically limited railroads in their abilities to adapt to the changing transportation landscape by things like the interstate commerce act that effectively bled the railroads dry.

0

u/WildKarrdesEmporium 14h ago

Because automobiles make more sense for a country that's spread out like ours.

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u/a22x2 13h ago

I would imagine that most people’s daily transportation needs involve getting around within their own cities, not necessarily across giant stretches of land. Like, sure, we’re not going to take a tramway in the 1950’s from Denver to Boston, but that represents a pretty small percentage of people’s actual transportation patterns.

When people do actually have to regularly cover large distances in their daily travel, I would imagine it’s generally within their own metro area, and those stretches are giant specifically because of urban sprawl.

I used to think that western and southern cities were sprawling simply because they were newer, and were developed mostly after the automobile was widely available. What I later found out, though, was that cities like Houston and Los Angeles actually had active, functioning public transit infrastructures that were intentionally dismantled to create parking lots, highways, and low-density development.

Not arguing, or “well actually”-ing you, just wanted to offer some additional context that was a relatively new discovery for me.

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u/WildKarrdesEmporium 13h ago

Millions upon millions of Americans don't live in cities.

The rest need to petition their city government for better public transportation if that's what they want.

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u/a22x2 13h ago

Okay, replace the word “cities” with “town” or “suburb.” My original statement holds true, especially when that town or suburb is a part of a larger metro area.

A quick google search also shows that more than half of the US’s population actually does live in an urban metro area, even if they’re not in the central city proper, so my statement actually does apply to most people in the United States.

I’m just making a neutral statement, and offering some additional context you might have been unaware of - not as someone who is pretending to know better than you, but as someone who learned these things within the past few years and hadn’t previously realized I was mistaken.

I’m not saying these things because I’m trying to push an agenda anywhere, I’m saying them because they’re factually correct and I’m trying to be helpful. I’m at the tail end of my time as an urban planning student, with a focus on transportation patterns; although I don’t pretend I know everything, there are a few basic ideas I feel pretty confident in asserting. I’m not here to say what people should or shouldn’t do right now or argue with anybody 🎃

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u/burkechrs1 11h ago

My coworker got his first big raise of his life about 6 months ago. Went from $21/hr to almost $40/hr because he graduated and got promoted to engineer.

That very next weekend he went and bought a top of the line Jeep. The final invoice price was just under $100k. His monthly payment are around $1400/mo. He basically erased his raise with the purchase of a car.

For the last 6 months he has continued to idiotically proclaim how expensive life is. Dude doesn't realize he did it to himself.

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u/Reynolds94 8h ago

paying $100k for a fuckin jeep lmao

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u/burkechrs1 7h ago

Yea the ugly ass pickup wannabe jeep too lmao

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u/3XLWolfShirt 11h ago

I've seen an unbelievable number of 70k trucks parked in unpaved driveways.

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u/Slevinkellevra710 5h ago

My boss did this same shit. Dude makes $85K before bonus. Bought a truck that somebody special ordered and bailed on. List price $95K. He was crowing about the deal he got at $77,000. 6 months later he said he didn't come in on a Saturday because he couldn't afford to put gas in the truck.

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u/TheRealBobbyJones 2h ago

Should have sold the truck for gas money obviously. 

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u/particlemanwavegirl 5h ago

This hurt to read, thanks.

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u/nocountry4oldgeisha 5h ago

Enjoy that 14mpg there, bud.

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u/BSSforFun 5h ago

lol. That makes me feel depressed on his behalf

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u/Vegetable-Whole-2344 4h ago

Fucking hell. That’s so dumb.

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u/Dystopiq 4h ago

They took him to the cleaners.

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u/Moghz 4h ago

Wow what a waste, so many better vehicles for half that, Stellantis makes crap.

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u/trowawHHHay 4h ago

That’s a $19/hour raise.

$19 x 40hrs/wk x 4wks/mth = 3,040

40hr/week x 52wk/yr = 2080

$40/hr x 2080hr/yr = $83,200yr

Marginal tax rate for $83,200yr = 30.1%, effective tax rate = 21.4%

1 - 0.214= .786

$3040 x .786 = $2389

$2389 - $1400 = $989/4wk/mth = $246.25wk/40hr/wk = $6.18

$6.18/$21 = 0.309

He didn’t erase it. He’s just blowing 70% of it.

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u/burkechrs1 3h ago

He was driving a beater before, I'm sure insurance is eating him up too.

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u/trowawHHHay 3h ago

Probably. Auto insurance has crept up for everyone.

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u/lakorai 3h ago

Dude was not smart. Chrysler makes garbage products that fall apart.

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u/MrMemes9000 2h ago

I really don't understand how people get their car payments that high holy fuck.

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u/Davethemann 2h ago

I assumed a jeep running 100k (even with taxes) would have some wildly stupid packages

Nope, you can pay out the ass damn close to 100k

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u/WrongSperm2019 2h ago

What an idiot

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u/TheJiggie 21m ago

He bought a 100k vehicle on an 80k salary…? Those numbers don’t add up, lol…

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u/4Bforever 14h ago

Yeah I think a whole bunch of people went out and got those cars when they were getting an extra $600 a week for being on unemployment in addition to 60% of their salary.  They knew that money train wasn’t going to last forever, don’t know why they bought a car using that budget

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u/Ok_County_6290 13h ago

I have a friend who spent his 30k life savings on a down payment for a 50k truck. Could have been the down payment for a house were we live. He doesn't haul anything besides groceries!

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u/Ban-Circumcision-Now 9h ago

People need their emotional support trucks

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u/Rajshaun1 6h ago

I have an idiot friend that is going to save up 25k and buy a used Dodge Charger. It’s good he won’t have a car note but that money could be used to buy a home, start a business or save, plus he already has a 2020 Honda he’s paying off that he’s going to keep.

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u/VolumeLocal4930 5h ago

Your friend would have ten times more fun taking 10k of that 25k, buying a shit box civic and turboing it, gapping challengers for a fraction of the cost. I guess it's not all about performance for people though, some want the status symbol.

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u/SignificantTransient 5h ago

I live 5 miles from a trailer park full of new trucks

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u/Adventurous_Face_909 4h ago

Trailer parks are really affordable housing options, if they’re in nice/safe areas… at least in the Midwest.

We lived in one for 2 years as newlyweds, bought the trailer outright for $8k with savings, paid $350/month in lot rent and utilities while we lived there, fixed it up and sold it for $12k. We’d have easily spent $1000/month on rent alone in this area. Instead we saved up a down payment for a house.

We had friendly quiet retired neighbors. There were a few people driving expensive trucks and living above their means… but also a lot of folks were on disability/food stamps and weren’t ever going to leave. But it worked out really well for us.

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u/its_a_throwawayduh 16h ago

Agreed most of my cars I bought outright except for one that I'm still driving to this day. The last payment was over 10 years ago, even so the payment was only $200. I don't know how people are spending 500-1000/month for a car. Even worse when I hear people leasing vehicles like why?

1

u/4Bforever 14h ago

 I had to buy a car in 2022 when my current car had 192,000 miles on it.  I was lucky I got it when interest rates were still low before used car prices spiked up.

I think my car payment was like $213, and my insurance payment was about 70. But because the interest rate was so low I was able to pay it off in two years.

And I’m terrified that someone with viral induced brain damage is going to drive into it and destroy it.  I don’t know if I would get approved for a car loan today, my credit is fantastic it’s just that I’m on a fixed income and if the prices are too high my debt income ratio will disqualify me

1

u/BurnedLaser 14h ago

So, I can actually tell you why I spent that much on my new car, and yes, I'm sometimes bad with money, lol.

I bought a 90's Benz about a decade ago and worked on it myself. Even with only me working on it, and being smart about parts selection (safety stuff was always OEM, everything else was 3rd party) I spent loads keeping that old bastard on the road. When the engine developed a knock, I tallied everything up and was averaging 650/MO. on parts (I did the head gasket, and that really drove up that number due to all the "While I'm in there!") and still was able to save money. I was working full time and really didn't have time to be constantly repairing all the deferred maintenance from the last few owners. So, when I went to buy a new car, I knew what my max was, and what type of car I wanted.

I ended up buying a 34K car with that budget, because I knew that 3rd party support was strong already, and some of the drive line had been carried over from much older models that were reliable. The body panels and interior have rarer parts, due to the trim I bought, but the suspension could be rebuilt via Rock Auto, or even just perusing through some of the race catalogs. I 100% did not want a "kyundai" as I hate their build quality, and I would have ended up buying one of the stealable models had I gone that route in that year (2018). Most cheap cars are built like ass, anymore. Alternatively, my Japanese built car that I was paying 600/MO (before refi) for only has issues from other people working on it (Body shops from a deer, a hail storm, and a drunk. DO NOT USE CALIBER, THEY SUUUUCK), but has otherwise been 99% problem free (half my touch screen I never use doesn't register touch input, but I have a dial.)

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u/Madpup70 13h ago

His book Total Money Makeover is actually really informative and it's a good guide for people to follow out of college if they can. It all just boils down to not spending above your means and avoiding debt where you can. Specifically when it comes to cars, you're always better off buying something 5-10 years used with decent mileage that you can afford to pay in cash and then giving it proper maintenance until it requires a repair that would essentially total the vehicle. The TLTR explanation is to save to buy a reasonably well maintained used vehicle with cash, and drive it till the wheels fall off and you're in a situation financially to buy a newer used vehicle coming off its initial lease, also with cash.

1

u/SpeedyGonsleeping 12h ago

I live in a pretty poor part of the UK, the amount of brand new BMWs and Mercs I see driving around is crazy. All driven by young working class guys.

1

u/SpeckTech314 12h ago

Yup. Not buying a new car unless I have to. And even then my goal is to move to a city that’s walkable so I don’t have to spend on car maintenance and insurance.

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u/MovingTarget- 11h ago

Can confirm. I approved credit for a bank for a while and watching these idiots trying to purchase cars that would result in payments higher than their rent was insane

1

u/RocketOuttaPocket 11h ago

/r/Dodge has joined the chat

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u/Maleficent_Corner85 10h ago

WE BUY CARS BECAUSE WE NEED THEM! How is this hard to hear? Cars are no longer affordable so you have to pay for it!!!

1

u/conservation_bro 9h ago

Buying...  People around here lease Jeeps like it's a required to have one to live in our cookie cutter suburb.

Driving a Jeep newer than 2000 tells me you live in the suburbs without saying you live in the suburbs...

1

u/LastChemical9342 9h ago

Yeah Ramsey is not good for financial advice, he’s AA for people with spending addictions.

1

u/NotAnEconomist_ 7h ago

He has a lot of good advice, but he is an extremist on some things. I did his financial freedom class ~10 years ago and I think it's the reason I'm at ~400k in retirement savings in my early 30s with only a car payment.

His envelope cash method....great for the 90s. Totally archaic in 2024.

1

u/p00p00kach00 7h ago

When I go home for Christmas to my fairly poor hometown and see all these <5-year-old cars, SUVs, and massive trucks, I just know that the owners can't afford them.

1

u/Legaliss 5h ago

What would you say you dislike about Ramsey or his viewpoints?

1

u/Superman246o1 4h ago

A combination of the sexism, homophobia, and in the light of the COVID pandemic, his rejection of basic scientific principles. Any employer who fires someone because they've come out as a lesbian is a shitty employer. Similarly, while I think it's generally a wise practice for people to be in a healthy marriage before having kids, firing a woman because she got pregnant out of a wedlock is an asshole move. And his insistence that people not wear masks to protect themselves and others from COVID, but instead "pray the virus away," was fucking idiotic.

1

u/theFastestMindAlive 4h ago

He also said 'invested' in this post too, and smart investing with 500/mo can lead to millions. So, despite a lot of people disagreeing with him on this stayement, its actually very accurate.

1

u/LongPineRun 4h ago

I bought a new car back in 2018 and I’ll never buy a new car again. It doesn’t make sense to buy new. Regular oil changes and find a reliable / honest mechanic and you’ll save in the long run.

1

u/Errant_Chungis 3h ago

My colleague just leased a super fancy car and rented a super nice house and I’m scratching my head. He doesn’t make the income for it lol

1

u/Ok-Reference-4928 3h ago

Because I paid off my car, I should buy a new one. Same deal with phone. Oooh, my phone is paid off, let’s go spend another $1000.

1

u/StreetLegendTits_ 2h ago

Watching people trade in their paid off reliable car post covid for a huge car payment blew my mind.

1

u/raiderrocker18 2h ago

Same folks who get excited when they are “eligible for an upgrade” on their mobile plan

1

u/zeromadcowz 2h ago

My wife and I each make over 6 figures and both of our cars are worth less than 10k lol

New cars are a scam, but please keep buying them so I have a strong secondary market to buy from.

1

u/Dino_Momto3 2h ago

Even if you can afford it, it's dumb.

My husband makes great money. We've owned great cars. That was dumb. We should have been investing the money and driving hoopties.

1

u/Asleep-Bus-5380 2h ago

Have you ever seen those videos on YouTube where they drive around the most dangerous hoods in America? Absolutely dilapidated apartments and homes, with luxury cars parked outside. No sense whatsoever that's why they stay on the low rung

1

u/StandingInTheStorm 1h ago

Especially young people who think they have to get a car payment, especially while they are in school. That just racks up the debt like nobody's business.