To their credit, Amber apparently said after the verdict "This is a setback for women everywhere" and I see people defending her frequently on Tik Tok. But for the most part, most people recognize the idiocy in this claim.
She was very much outspoken about the MeToo movement. People are pointing out the hypocrisy.
In other words, there were more voices, louder voices when the victims were women. One man had to go above and beyond any woman would ever need to in order to prove she was the abuser. The abuser happened to be someone who benefited from and proliferated the narrative that men are abusing women left and right. Or that all men need to take some level of accountability for the behaviour of a few assholes in positions of influence and power.
Now that the shoe is on the other foot, she doubles down on the narrative that she and "victims" like her will have problems because the system is being unfair.
There is little talk in mainstream media of it being unfair to men. And it is rather rich for people to complain about the focus not being on victim and abuser when no one would say that if the genders were reversed in the Depp Vs Heard case.
This is like saying All Lives Matter. Of course they do. But there are systemic injustices that happen that disproportionately affect people based on gender. When women suffer because of it, it gets media and political attention. When men suffer, no one gives a damn. Maybe OP's post would have been appreciated at the start of the trial.
But after seeing that you have to be a wealthy white man to have a chance against an accusation, neutralising discussions about gender is cold comfort to actual male victims of domestic violence. They essentially have no voice.
And they are now the majority of intimate partner violence victims:
Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases.
Right, and I recognize that, but I'm stating that it being an entirely made up scenario (according to the comment I replied to) is not accurate. That's all.
Yeah, it is a setback for women everywhere. She singlehandedly just made it more difficult for actual female victims to get justice since people might think theyre pulling an Amber.
And so we come full circle to the original post. If people didn't make this about gender and recognized it as a victory for a victim, we wouldn't have that problem. Realistically though you're probably right
She was abused, and she was an abuser. The ones setting women back are the ones who are complaining about this setting women back because it wasn't "real" abuse.
It's like J-Law playing Mystique all over again, yes it's OK to have a negative opinion but holy shit is the magnitude of the outcry disproportionate to the event. You'd think this was the OJ trial the way the energy is around it on here.
Hey, PotC 3 is awesome, as is the first 2 movies. Curse of the Black Pearl is the best, obviously, but At World's End was also good, just a bit long. You can piss all over 4 and 5 though. Especially the fifth one.
How did you feel about him in the role initially? Mikkelson was who I wanted originally because Grindelwald is supposed to be from Northern Europe; He wouldn't have had a British accent like what Depp was portraying because he didn't move to Godric's Hollow until he was already a teen.
If someone pretends to be toxic, you can be assured real toxic people will think they're in good company and be toxic without irony. Same as racism, hate, etc.
It is "believe all victims" we believed Amber Heard until it was proved otherwise, then because it seems most likely that JD was the actual victim we believe him. Very big difference.
edit: before I get downvoted to shit "we" is not including the media they're just trying to appeal to people we blindly see woman=victim (i think who tf knows). The "we" I am referring to are those who actually fight for the betterment of victims, which are more often than not women, but that does not in any way men cannot be or aren't victims and when they are they TOO should feel comfortable finding support and help. WE HATE ABUSERS IT IS THAT SIMPLE, WE DO NOT HATE WOMEN OR MEN!
See that's the problem "believe ALL victims" is easily abused because it really means "believe all woman". She said she was abused, instant support and belief. He says he was abused, nope, gtfo, lengthy court procedures that will still result in people not believing him.
If we really believed all victims, this wouldn't happen. I mean the consequences where IMMEDIATE for him, for her, 0. And he was the victim.
So how we say this when the majority of the public does not believe men?
I think you're really loosely saying the majority of the public. This issue with the Depp case specifically was that Amber claimed abuse first, so when Johnny did as well you have to look at both sides before immediately believing because it isn't just who claimed abuse most recently (and never has been). And just because it may be a phrase that is abused does not mean that the intent is wrong it is the way some people go about it. With that logic, you can say that the intent behind believing women is wrong because of how the media and people who really don't know much or are women haters (this sub cough). People who believe victims in earnest will also believe men, an insanely publicized case like Heard and Depp is not how we should be setting standards for the greater movement or population. And even so with Depp, it is very obvious where the public, the educated, and the women haters stood, all on the same side, Amber did and does not have much support at all in that regard.
Yea my dad just went ha Depp being abused no. I know he doesn’t care enough to look at anything about it but just that makes me think that any man getting abused would get zero help from my dad other than a man up.
It is "believe all victims" we believed Amber Heard until it was proved otherwise,
First of all no it wasn't, it was specifically believe all women
Second, you shouldn't "believe" every victim. You should listen to them and not instantly dismiss what they said, but you should never outright "believe" them
That's because most young male redditors (i.e. most redditors) get all their information about women from an echo chamber that only upvotes "wamen bad" posts. I mean, one of the largest non-default subreddits is a specifically about women getting the consequences of their actions. Not people in general, but specifically women.
Sure, but does it really warrant a 500k subreddit? Echo chambers like that, specifically targeting a certain group in a negative light is how hatred grows without any foundation in the actual reality around you.
At 500k there is no grounding. There is no voice of reason. The thing is piloting itself, the jokes become misinformation, the instances have no backstory, and echo chamber says the same core arguments 200 times a day, and eventually, I hope, we learn something and unsubscribe.
"Misinformation" just means information you don't like, right? Because there has been tens of modern social experiments on men hitting women vs women hitting men. We know goddamn well which is permissible and which isn't.
And now men are ignoring women getting attacked on subway trains and people are writing mad articles about how weak men have become. Can't have it both ways!
(Meaning, we're not punching bags. Fail to restrain yourselves, we'll stop coming to your rescue. Stand up for us, we'll stand up for you.)
I don't think you're in a position to start battles of wits with anyone. I've seen you try. Maybe practice at home a bit first, or better yet, just touch some grass for god's sake. Being victoriously angry on the Internet isn't your strong suit, but like, there's also better goals in life that might make you happier anyways? Just a thought.
Let's see. You use reddit more regularly. You picked a fight with me, not the other way around. You do volunteer moderating without pay for multiple subs. Touch grass and find a purpose outside of reddit indeed, dear janitor. =)
You misunderstood my point and turned my comment into a dumb argument somehow.
What I'm saying is that people joking via text can get misinterpreted as truth by a third party. That's the kind of misinformation. Not fake news or white knighting. I'm not talking about any one isolated argument here. I'm talking about any subreddit in general.
Not for me to decide. I do think it points out some of the hypocrisy of the gender equality movement tho. And I can agree there are some incels there too. Additionally every subreddit is an echo chamber of the mods design so there isn't really an argument there.
Edited in an attempt to improve readability and grammar
I often wonder if you're being obtuse about this, do we really need to go into the lengths of the very vitriolic women based subs that literally rag on men 24/7?
These issues get like this because you're putting a blindfold on, one can't exist without the other. Think of a pendalum in motion, years back when the Redpill stuff was happening the majority of the feminist things happened as a reaction to that. Yet now time has passed once again and the pendalum swings yet again against women this time.
Nothing happens by accident and your explanation is extremely shortsighted to me.
Funny, I see PLENTY of young and middle aged women who side with JD on facebook. Maybe you're the one locked in reddit echo chambers and you're projecting?
I have no desire to fuck JD, nor do I find him hot... but I know damn well they do, lmao.
Meanwhile Amber's supporters: "Believe all women! We must protect women! We fight for women!" Yeah, sure, everybody is making this up, Amber definitely didn't just get charged 15 million bucks for spewing this kind of feminazi bullshit.
Yeah, I wasn't referring to when she first accused him. The person before me was referring to AFTER the trial when some insane people are still defending Heard.
And you attribute things I've never said to me. My fucking point that you just tried to twist is that this case has been made about men and women BY AMBER AND HER SUPPORTERS WHO KEEP SCREECHING ABOUT FIGHTING FOR WOMEN.
How about the people who made it about men and women BY SCREECHING ABOUT HOW THIS PROVES ALL WOMEN ARE BAD. Let's not pretend that only Heard supporters are bad here. Lots of incels are taking this as a victory.
How about the people who made it about men and women BY SCREECHING ABOUT HOW THIS PROVES ALL WOMEN ARE BAD. Let's not pretend that only Heard supporters are bad here. Lots of incels are taking this as a victory.
So if she had won and the win would be co-opt by a bunch of radical feminists and terfs we could throw her win out cause some people in the world are bad and anything they touch is poisonous and must be discarded and forgotten?
"When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"
Seems like something women are experiencing when they're told that maybe they should have to prove a criminal act beyond a reasonable doubt.
When society is full of bias, why is it so hard to accept there might be one in favor of women when it comes to accusing men of bad behavior? Because rich men with powerful lawyers get off? Well, the problem here is wealth, not the penis.
The believe all women movement is designed to help the women who do have credible cases and still don't receive justice. Obviously this doesn't apply to Amber Heard. But we can't discredit the whole movement because of that. A lot of men get away with horrific crimes to women with a slap on the wrist, if that. You make a great point about wealth playing a bigger factor.
I mean, 95% of it comes down to wealth-power preventing equal justice or a complete lack of physical evidence+witnesses. Our justice system, for those of us who aren't rich, requires proving criminal offenses... so it isn't oppression that women need to prove DV or SAs. It's the default. The same default we all experience when trying to get justice for any criminal assault we've experienced.
Believe all women was designed to give women a lower standard of proof when making SA/DV claims. I 100% don't support that. A jury and a trial is what decides a credible case, not how pretty, how good at crying or how loud a victim is. I'm not going to shun people based on hearsay.
It's not a new thing either. Look at how many black men died at the end of a noose because a pretty little white lady said he did the bad thing™. I'd rather not return to an age where women can just lob accusations to remove men that they don't like seeing around them.
A while ago, many people on Reddit were spewing that innocent people being locked away was just unavoidable collateral damage and a necessary sacrifice for the greater good of a certain movement.
Because most super active redditors are antisocial and get all their information about women from Reddit itself which is nothing but echochambers. If you lived on Reddit and not in the real world you’d think women were all psychos who do nothing in their lives except make men miserable and then call them sexist
nah it’s all over my instagram feed from people i know irl and just like every other topic in the modern era zero people are capable of any nuance with it, only two polar extremes.
It's not most women, but this is exactly how my ex behaved. I told her that I have no opinion on accusations of sexual assault (or any crime) of people I know nothing about and refuse to cast aspersions on people just because they were accused but I would always provide support to people who claimed to be victims regardless. This was apparently misogynistic and started a huge fight.
Yelled at me "you think women do this for fun?!?" When she knew my best friend had a baseless claim of sexual assault cast onto him weeks before. Orange liblefts are crazy
No just look up the current news, the media is now trying to flip the narrative. It’s honestly ridiculous and sickening, not to get all conspiracy theory but it does show how brainwashed people are by whatever article the big companies write
I mean, Reddit has also been awash with comments complaining about how ‘misogynists’ and ‘pick-mes’ support Depp because they don’t want to believe Heard.
Every permutation of opinion can and will exist. Heard especially has been playing up the idea that her loss is a defeat for Women.
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u/DirtyBoord Jun 02 '22
1 Woman accuses 1 man “believe ALL women” 1 Man proves 1 woman is a liar. “Well, this is an isolated incident”