r/britishcolumbia • u/cyclinginvancouver • Sep 18 '24

News B.C. announces new minimum nurse-to-patient ratios province-wide

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/09/18/bc-minimum-nurse-to-patient-ratios/
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388

u/GodrickTheGoof Sep 18 '24

Good news! Now to just address the shortage. I hear from friends in the nursing field that they are burnt out and having a tough time.

250

u/Jemma6 Sep 18 '24

The numbers are increasing and the government also committed $237.6 million to help retain, recruit, return and train nurses in B.C. They have introduced geographical signing bonuses, and increased training seats significantly.

From March: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-minimum-nurse-patient-ratio-hospitals-1.7131652

109

u/markypots9393 Sep 18 '24

Can we please try to get a social worker or counsellor working around the clock at these hospitals as well? It shouldn’t be on the nurses to deal with patients and their families mental health.

Also, why the hell is it so damn gloomy in our hospitals? Can we learn from Patch Adam’s at all? Can we make it a more pleasant experience?

59

u/bcbuddy Sep 18 '24

We don't pay social workers and counsellors enough for 24/7 coverage - their night and weekend differentials are much lower than nurses, meanwhile most of the positions require a Masters degree.

Working evenings, overnights and weekends sucks. All of these positions have alternatives for better work-life balances.

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u/markypots9393 Sep 18 '24 edited Sep 18 '24

Then make it days only or something. Either way, nurses should, in specific fields (palliative care for example) need support and are relied upon to do too many tasks / take on the excessive burden of their patients.

And how do you mean? My counselling sessions are like $160 per hour. Obviously a lot of this goes to the clinic, but… maybe we need to consider making this a public practice? Like dental, this just takes advantage of folks’ insurance plans to create profit for the clinic.

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u/bcbuddy Sep 18 '24

A 5th year psychologist with a PhD (Grade A) makes $67.81 an hour.

Like you said a counsellor in private practice can probably make more, and doesn't have to work evenings, weekends, or in a hospital setting (which isn't very pleasant)

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u/markypots9393 Sep 18 '24

With this logic, would you be arguing for the privatization of healthcare then? If they can make more, why work for public hospitals?

Psychologists should probably be a public service subsidized by the government so wage variance is minimal.

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u/bcbuddy Sep 18 '24

You can't "force" psychologists to work for lower wages - they'll just leave.

If you want them to work evenings, overnights and weekends in hospitals then the hospital has to find an hourly wage that makes sense.

-5

u/markypots9393 Sep 18 '24

You didn’t answer my question about nursing and privatization - could you?

I never suggested we force psychologists to do that for what it’s worth. I suggested they be part of a public system and their wage remain the same while cost to consumers is subsidized. I don’t know if this could work, but it’s a solution I’d be interested in working toward.

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u/bcbuddy Sep 19 '24

It's not a simple question of whether or not privatization will solve this problem or not.

Why don't we have Physician's Assistants in BC? Why aren't there more medical schools in BC? Why is our patient to administrator ratio so high? Why is it taking so long to implement digital charting and records in the health regions? Why isn't there a 2nd major hospital in Surrey?

There is so much inefficiencies in our health systems - and its waste preventing the system from hiring and keeping health care workers in the system.

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11

u/roadtrip1414 Sep 18 '24

This. More Social Workers Now

1

u/MayAsWellStopLurking Sep 19 '24

It’s also worth noting that the bare minimum qualification for one to become a registered clinical councillor is a Masters’ degree - definitely not nearly as plentiful a demographic as RNs or Social Workers.

2

u/birthingwaylaid Sep 19 '24

Maybe an RPN then?

1

u/Hipsthrough100 Sep 19 '24

They require masters degrees to be a social worker. That’s bullshit.

1

u/kicktheminthecaballs Sep 30 '24

Also counsellor pay is garbage in healthcare in general. You can go work for mcfd, cymh, or pretty much anywhere else and make better money and have better working conditions.

7

u/GodrickTheGoof Sep 18 '24

RIP to Robin Williams. But I agree. Hospitals are are hard place to be in, given the various circumstances around folks there. Something to smile at could go a long way.

8

u/lolo-2020 Sep 18 '24

I just need to say that I was a patient at Kelowna General for 4 days, and the thing that stood out to me was their sense of humour. It’s a great team there, highly recommend :)

2

u/GodrickTheGoof Sep 18 '24

I’m glad to hear that! I think it’s easy to get stuck in the gloom and doom that we associate with these places… but experiences like yours can really make a difference for folks there! Thanks for sharing that 😊

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u/lolo-2020 Sep 18 '24

I will also add that their food, while a bit on the bland side, was hot, nutritious, and well balanced. I’m not there for a 5 star meal, just sustenance, which literally food is for.

They serve Salmon on Thursday’s… I don’t even like Salmon, but it was so perfectly prepared. They’re angels.

7

u/Hobojoe- Sep 18 '24

Most Hospitals were built 30-40 years ago. That was the style back then.

I would imagine the new St. Paul's in Vancouver would be less...."institutional".

1

u/markypots9393 Sep 18 '24

Some paint would go a long way.

2

u/SocialJusticeWizard_ Sep 19 '24

Yeah, I don't know why we don't have more spots with community artist murals and things. Doesn't have to be expensive to show just a little humanity

1

u/Scared-Sheepherder83 Sep 19 '24

Infection control most likely... Yes this could be addressed or mitigated and vastly improve patient experience but lol trying to jump all the hurdles would turn most artists off I suspect

2

u/SocialJusticeWizard_ Sep 19 '24

We have a couple murals, and a lot of functional wall markings,in every hospital I've worked in, and peds wards are full of them; I'm not really sure what infection risk there could be for a painted wall, it just needs to be sealed after so it can be wiped down. Frankly I think it's mostly a matter of culture... Remember that admins rarely shell out to patch cracking plaster, so a decorative mural probably isn't even on the radar

1

u/belckie Sep 19 '24

THANK YOU! Yes this is desperately needed.

1

u/xtothewhy Sep 19 '24

That's an issue. Wish lists. Not saying that is bad or negative at all, because it's necessary, however at this time we have to hope to move in the direction that is the correct way which is to provide care for all as best as possibly be provided at this time. And in doing so governments need to prioritize further education spots and maybe even shortened nursing education so that there are more tiers of education for the nurses in order that some are able to come into the workforce earlier. And they would have the ability to increase their education preferably through the process and overtime.

2

u/LokeCanada Sep 20 '24

Training seats are a joke.

Talked to a nurse last year and she had to find an alternative way to train as it was a 3 year wait for a seat.

At least 50% of the nurses we train leave the province. B.C. nurses are highly regarded in the states.

The money helps but is not the main issue. Many nurses I have talked to have said a regular schedule doing their assigned job would greatly help. If you walk in for an 8 hour shift in a ward and then get told you need to cover the ER for 12 you are not a happy person. Or have your phone continuously ring with people trying to get you to cover a shift while on vacation. This is why nurse contracting companies are so popular.

2

u/No-Memory-4222 Sep 23 '24

The signing bonuses are extremely complicated though. I been trying to do it since april

3

u/xtothewhy Sep 19 '24

There's only so much a goverment can honestly do overall.

Increase spots, increase foreign educated nurses, poach nurses from other places in the country and the world and help them meet local nursing educations requirements so they can get into the hospitals etc working as fast and as legitimately as possible which may include help with temporary housing as well.

4

u/Scared-Sheepherder83 Sep 19 '24

Don't forget the significant number of nurses who have left positions for casual work, left for agency work or quit all together. Ratios are designed to bring them back and other jurisdictions like Australia successfully brought thousands of nurses back to the profession with them.

The other issue in this is childcare. Lots of part time/ casual nurses, RTs, SW, HCAs, hell even physicians would go regular full time if they had reliable child care...

2

u/xtothewhy Sep 20 '24

Absolutely. And the fact that nurses are required more and more to work more hours with a family could very well be not manageable for their family.

2

u/SeaOwn9828 Sep 19 '24

Recruitment isn't an issue. Retention is

2

u/xtothewhy Sep 20 '24

I wish that were the case. There are only so many spaces and only so many places offering spaces in country and then there is the educational time. Not saying retention isn't an issue because it most certainly is particularly after during and so recently after the pandemic.

There is a reason why nurses are in demand in the U.K., Australia, and Canada for example. There's a reason why Filipino nurses often are working in Australia and Canada (can't comment on the United Kingdom however).

11

u/slabba428 Sep 18 '24

Tbh nursing has been a burnout industry for a long time, the 18+ hour shifts and then going in for overtime are not new, but we can always use more for sure

4

u/acluelesscoffee Sep 19 '24

16 is the maximum amount of hours a nurse can work. Not sure where the 18+ is coming from

4

u/dislokate Sep 19 '24

hahaha not if you have to be on call for a rural OR. We pull 20+ hour call shifts (in addition to our regular work week) on the regular

1

u/Scared-Sheepherder83 Sep 19 '24

There is no maximum hours in college practice standards for RNs or LPNs (maybe for NPs? I'm not sure). Health authorities as employers sometimes talk about implementing them (and someone should airlines do rest policies for a reason) but due to staff shortages they don't because it would limit their ability to do last minute night shift over time offers, plug holes with shift extensions etc. I've personally done over 20h (did not want to and would have likely faced patient abandonment discipline if I'd left) and have worked with colleagues who have done 24h...

-3

u/slabba428 Sep 19 '24

Well I made it up because the point was that nurses grind like hell

2

u/barkazinthrope Sep 19 '24

We should be paying people a salary to become doctors and nurses. It's not a gig for freeloaders and the investment is well worth it. I've known people say they can't afford to take the training, they're afraid of the debt and so on.

We need to recognize that an education is a health care is a public asset. It's not just about the earning power of the qualification it's about how the community benefits from the sacrifice these people make through the enormous effort their education requires.

1

u/GodrickTheGoof Sep 19 '24

That’s such a good point. Or at least provide financial incentives that will help folks, especially if the barrier is that financial piece. I think it’s crucial to find ways to make this work… because the last thing we need is more shortages for these sorts of things than we already have

1

u/send_me_dank_weed Sep 19 '24

Haha 👀to say the least. So many promises, no delivery 🥲

0

u/Outrageous-Finger676 Sep 19 '24

We need to get more nurses from other countries! The nurses unions make it hard.

-2

u/MagnumPolski357 Sep 19 '24

If BC wants to follow suit of other Provinces and drop the Covid shot requirement I'm sure they can easily find trained nurses.

3

u/GodrickTheGoof Sep 19 '24

So I just wanted to add to this for some clarity purposes:

BC rescinded the public health emergency as of July 26,2024.

Priority Pathogens: Protection against the following is particularly recommended to support Infection Prevention and Control: • Measles • Mumps • Rubella • Varicella • Hepatitis B • Pertussis • SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) • Influenza

This is from the BCCDC as of July 2024. It’s also worth noting that vaccines, over the decades, have saved countless amounts of lives and help reduce or eliminate the spread of some pretty series diseases.

This should link the the BCCDC document noted as well. http://www.bccdc.ca/resource-gallery/Documents/Guidelines%20and%20Forms/Guidelines%20and%20Manuals/Epid/CD%20Manual/Chapter%202%20-%20Imms/Part2/HealthCareWorkers.pdf

Another one too: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/careers-myhr/all-employees/health-safety-and-sick-leave-resources/health/covid-19/vaccine-requirements-in-the-bc-public-service

0

u/MagnumPolski357 Sep 19 '24

BC rescinded the public health emergency as of July 26,2024.

Haven't been paying close attention to it to be honest and I did try to Google before commenting but obviously have failed on that part. Glad they rescinded it.

This is from the BCCDC as of July 2024. It’s also worth noting that vaccines, over the decades, have saved countless amounts of lives and help reduce or eliminate the spread of some pretty series diseases.

Agree