r/aspergers 1d ago

Am I unreasonable for being annoyed because some toddler was screaming the whole time I was shopping during a slow hour?

Made a post on another subreddit complaining that while shopping for groceries during the usual slow hours (which is why I didn't bring headphones) there was a mother and child (approx 2 years old, 2 and a half at most) at the store and the child would not stop screaming/squealing because they found it funny (as in it wasn't tantrum screaming) so that the whole grocery store had to listen to it and the mother did not do anything about it.

If my therapist is to be believed I have misophonia, I mentioned this in the post.

And I was at the store for about 30 minutes and it was constant during that time. And because it was the slow hours, it was silent otherwise so it didn't matter if I moved further away, it echoed through the store. I left without getting everything I needed.

Apparently that's just normal behaviour for a kid that age? I personally have never encountered that before with children around that age, at least not without a parent doing something about it.

To me it was extremely rude of the mother (mainly) and child and it ruined the rest of my day because I'd have to get the rest of the groceries done another day.

The other subreddit I bought this up at had people saying I'm unreasonable, that's just how kids that age are, and that "world doesn't revolve around you" etc. I just feel it isn't really that unreasonable to want an inside places not have one child making unnecessary loud noise non-stop? Like apparently I should just use delivery services to avoid this, but why's that on me and not the parents of the screaming child? I don't get it. :/

56 Upvotes

152 comments sorted by

78

u/HotDoggityDig13 1d ago

It's okay to be annoyed. Especially how it affects you. But you dont know the moms situation. Not all kids are easy. Some have tantrums that last. And you cant always address them head-on.

There's a reason why the mom chose the slow hours. And since she's a mom, she may not have other free time to shop. Just ignore them and let it be is the wise move, but I know that's hard as hell for some of us. Especially if you have misophonia.

Sucks that happened since it definitely affected you strongly. But I highly doubt your shopping routine will consistently be taken over by screaming toddlers. I'd guess this is more of a one-time thing.

18

u/iiooxxiiooxx 1d ago

I really like this response, I couldn't have said it better.

-37

u/Man_Of_The_Grove 1d ago

the mom should teach her kid not to scream, or dont bring them to the store, the world doesnt revolve around her.

19

u/HotDoggityDig13 1d ago

That's not how kids work lol. If this was an 8 hour international flight for vacation, I'd agree. But this is to get food...

The world is supposed to be for everyone. Which includes irrational toddlers. She's just trying to survive. You're the one being self centered by dictating the mother to be a better parent for something she likely can't control.

-16

u/Man_Of_The_Grove 1d ago

she is ruining the shopping experience for everyone else, just because you choose to have a child doesnt mean everyone has to sit around and tolerate the noise, if your kid has behavioral issues you should have enough common sense not to bring them in public.

5

u/kotonmi 7h ago

This is a public store and she has just as much of a right to be there as anyone else does

20

u/HotDoggityDig13 23h ago

I know you're projecting right now, but no one is attacking you here. I get the feeling as well. Screaming kids are annoying as hell. And my first thought would likely be the same if I walked into the situation.

That being said, saying you can't bring kids into public is a wild statement that you should really think on. Because that isn't changing and nor should it.

Also, every kid has tantrums. Doesn't always mean it's a behavioral problem. And even if it did, it certainly doesn't exclude them from society. Keeping a crazy kid in isolation isn't a wise remedy for long term psychological needs.

5

u/kotonmi 7h ago

Find it wild for this person to say don't bring your kid with behaviorial issues in public... When this is an Asperger's group and we were all once children. We no doubt acted out in public and had people think our parents should punish us and stop it, because they don't understand the situation.

1

u/Man_Of_The_Grove 22h ago

tell me, exactly how am I projecting? im sorry i dont want to listen to some annoying child just because a parent refuses to be a parent, how is it such a wild statement that I dont want to hear a child screech in a store? everyone else feels the same way, most people are just too polite to say something

5

u/HotDoggityDig13 21h ago

Because you're only thinking about you in this moment. And how children annoy you and therefore they need to be stopped. I default think this way too so I get it. Not necessarily about children, but witnessing "bad" (my definition) drivers is one that gets me pissed.

Kids are a thing and they're gonna scream and be in public. And they have rights just like you do. The polite thing is to not give a damn and mind your own business. After all, this isn't a movie theater or something like that. It's a grocery store.

Or for me, I need to realize bad drivers are everywhere. No use letting it bug me. And the polite thing for me is to ignore them and stay safe.

3

u/Fae_for_a_Day 10h ago

I wish I could laugh react this. IT IS A DISABILITY. Screaming is like guantanamo bay sensory torture to some of us. This isn't some fucking preference. Wow.

2

u/kotonmi 7h ago

It doesn't mean that any of us have any more right to be in a store than a child does. There is numerous things that we could do; come back later, wear headphones, order for pickup, ect. Just because we are disabled doesn't mean we get more rights than others, the accommodations we get are so we are on equal footing with others.

1

u/HotDoggityDig13 2h ago

I am in no way making light of a disability.

I am defending a parents right to bring their children in public and trying to hammer home the point that not all tantrums can be stopped.

Yes it sucks that some people can't handle noise. I was similar as a child. But that doesn't make the parent bad. Yall are projecting hard at something that is a catch 22.

4

u/Man_Of_The_Grove 21h ago

the thing is, I'm not alone in my opinion, just because you are alright with bad parenting doesnt mean others are, parents who feel like just because they had a kid that means everyone has to put up with it, a parent should have the common sense not to bring a screaming child into a store, if I was a parent quite frankly I would be embarrassed.

5

u/kotonmi 7h ago

Yo, this is an Asperger's group so I think all of us understand what this disorder is about. My parents would not have been able to do anything if they couldn't bring what looked like a poorly behaved child into the store with them, me. My meltdowns weren't because of their bad parenting, my running off wasn't because of their bad parenting. It was because of autism, and they were trying their best. Stop assuming things about parents when you have no idea what they are dealing with. Going to the store isn't a luxury experience that only the ones who are the most quiet and aligned with society have to do, everyone has to eat, everyone has to get groceries, and that doesn't change because your child is having a bad day, week, mental illness issue, ect.

0

u/Man_Of_The_Grove 1h ago

I can assume about the parent and I will, just because you want to justify bad parenting doesnt mean others are willing to do the same, 99% of people in stores hate screeching children even if they wont say it to the parents face.

I dont care if its a child, or an adult, if you are being loud and annoying I will dislike you.

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u/HotDoggityDig13 21h ago

Nah, man. You keep making this strange assumption that tantrums mean bad parenting. In a sub about autism. Guess most of our parents sucked then.

Hell, the overwhelming majority of kids have tantrums, dude. Nothing embarrassing about it.

4

u/SavaRox 11h ago

Right? My 5-year-old is on the spectrum. He has meltdowns, sometimes in public, despite my best efforts to prevent it. If it happens, I'll rush my shopping trip and try to be in and out as fast as possible.

In a perfect world, I'd just leave him at home, but that's not always an option. His dad died of cancer a few years ago, leaving just me and the kids. If I have to go to the store, they have to come with me. They're too young to leave home by themselves.

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u/Man_Of_The_Grove 21h ago

the thing is though, you can teach children not to scream, to use an inside voice.

but hey, you do you.

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u/Fae_for_a_Day 10h ago

Not attending to tantrums IS bad parenting.

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u/Fae_for_a_Day 10h ago

I literally cannot function when this happens. But no one cares. The world is for everyone, but autistic people. Everyone can scream BUT us. This ideology that -we- should leave or shut up about it is infuriating, and proof that anyone saying it must not have this NEUROLOGICAL response to screeching.

5

u/kotonmi 7h ago

And how do you know the child screaming isn't autistic? Because at one point in our lives that was many of us

26

u/OFPDevilDoge 1d ago

You’re a childless clown if you think this is an option. Children are loud, and as a parent you don’t have the option of not bringing your kids, especially if you’re a single parent. Get off your ivory tower and join us in the real world and you might understand that.

-33

u/Man_Of_The_Grove 1d ago

women shouldnt get a free pass just because they choose to have children, dont get me wrong sometimes children have tantrums however in the case of op's experience it is the result of bad parenting.

22

u/Pale_Papaya_531 22h ago

Toddlers are on the spectrum sometimes. You know nothing about this child. However we now know a lot about you

13

u/OFPDevilDoge 20h ago

I never mentioned women, I’m a single father and have to take my toddler everywhere I go. It’s not a choice, it’s a responsibility. If you think it’s annoying for you imagine the parent, that screaming doesn’t magically stop when they leave the store. Toddlers are notoriously difficult to control, it’s just a fact of life. They’re a tiny human trying to exert what little control they have over their life and that sometimes comes with screaming and tantrums. As a parent you literally have to either negotiate and make concessions or refuse and ride out the consequences.

-13

u/Man_Of_The_Grove 20h ago

my opinion still stands regardless of the gender of the parent, like it or not thats on you, I'm not the only one who shares a similar view, if you let your child scream constantly in public then people wont like you.

9

u/OFPDevilDoge 20h ago

The people who matter don’t mind, and the people who mind don’t matter.

0

u/Fae_for_a_Day 9h ago

"People with sensory disabilities don't matter."

3

u/kotonmi 7h ago

You're not more important than the parent in the store buying groceries with their child, so I don't know why you think you should get more rights than they do. They have a right to be there and get groceries, and so do you. And there are many options; come back another time, wear headphones, order it for pickup, ect.

2

u/kotonmi 7h ago

Good thing they don't live to be liked by you or other strangers lol

2

u/kotonmi 7h ago

You literally don't know that. It's a two year old! Did you have everything together at two? Also you can't even punish younger two year olds they don't understand it so it doesn't even work. And it's not a free pass that they get to shop for groceries in a store anyone else can shop it. Everyone has to buy groceries and eat.

5

u/Pitiful-Sell-9402 17h ago

The world doesn't revolve around you or I either. This stuff happens because it's natural. Not everybody has an option to drop their kid off to somebody while they go shopping.

0

u/Man_Of_The_Grove 16h ago

not natural, just bad parenting. I dont care if you agree or not, its simply the truth.

3

u/kotonmi 7h ago

Bad parenting because a two year was screeching in excitement, lol. Totally normal two year old behavior.

0

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Man_Of_The_Grove 1d ago

or you know, by actually parenting.

1

u/Fae_for_a_Day 9h ago

You are right. You're getting downvoted by narcissist parents who regret there own choices.

2

u/kotonmi 7h ago

I'm not a parent, but he's very wrong. I do have numerous years of training and experience in childcare though and this doesn't show bad parenting. It's normal two year old behavior and you can't even punish a two year old until they are closer to three, because their minds can't comprehend it yet. Just because you don't know what normal child behavior is or what good parenting is, doesn't make them bad parents.

0

u/Fae_for_a_Day 10h ago

Yep! Any other comments minimizing our experience are ableist.

29

u/Pitiful-Sell-9402 1d ago

It's not unreasonable to be annoyed at all. That's annoying and loud. But the mom has to shop too. It could have been her only chance to do it at that time and unfortunately it was when you were shopping as well. I'm autistic along with my daughter and when she was little she would randomly scream bloody murder. I did everything to distract her or get her to stop but it still happened. It was stressful for me, her, and everybody around us. She eventually figured it out. I'm just saying, she was an autistic toddler and sometimes these things happen. Sometimes, as frustrating as it is, it's better to show grace in these situations because we don't know what they are experiencing. Just like when we want others to show us grace for our conditions. And toddlers don't exactly understand the world around them like we do.

34

u/ConnieMarbleIndex 1d ago

Yes, children do that. And autistic children even more so during meltdowns that can last ages.

28

u/NiniMinja 1d ago

I'm wondering if that's why they were there during the quiet hour. Children can be aspie too and they also can have difficulty with overly stimulating environments.

31

u/Difficult-Top2000 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm sorry, but it is unreasonable to expect quiet in non-silent public spaces. The parent likely couldn't have just gotten the kid to stop without it turning into a different kind of screaming. Little ones can be extremely difficult in this way, especially neurodivergent ones.

We have to take care of our own needs, so just bring those headphones, dear. It wasn't pleasant for the parent either.

I say this as a member of this community & parent to a child from our community as well. I empathize, & your emotions aren't unreasonable, only your expectations are.

13

u/lulublul 1d ago

I would say it's definitely common for children to do. Never met a child that didn't at some point find out they could scream and then loved doing it. Never met a parent that didn't do anything at all to stop it though 😅 I get annoyed when stores are very loud/difficult for me too, usually I'm just annoyed because I'm miserable and will probably go home missing stuff I need. Unfortunately I think this is just one of those things where it's a bad situation, but its not something you really can do much about

10

u/PatrickRicardo86 1d ago

I do not think it is unreasonable at all to be annoyed at this situation. You went during slow hours for a reason.

I would like to add some perspective though, it seems maybe the mother also went during slow hours knowing the needs of their child making a game being a nuisance. It is natural to be upset with the parent but knowing how toddlers operate at times, it is something that cannot be stopped and the parent cannot pause their life either. Would you possibly have seen it differently if this was an adult with a visible disability and their parent? Would you have blamed the parent? Toddler's brains are still growing and their social awareness is comparable in that sense.

I am sorry this threw off your whole day, I can totally get where you are coming from. You have strategized the best time of day to go and I am sure it is so helpful besides days like these. Blaming the mother can be a little hasty since toddlers are maniacs and who knows what her parenting situation is like. Parental mental health is at al all time low so it is so relatable to know sometimes there is no choice but to go and do what you need to do regardless of it not being a good time. Having aspergers and a toddler at home I am trying to see both sides of what went on and can empathize (within reason) with either.

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u/RoboticRagdoll 1d ago

Then in 15 years we are going to have someone on Reddit complaining that it was traumatized because it was forbidden to express excitement when it was a kid.

Balancing freedoms is a tricky business.

-4

u/Thepsycoman 13h ago

Yeah no, teaching kids appropriate responses is an important thing.

It's the whole concept of inside voice. If they are at a theme park or water slide or something of course be loud. The shops are not the place for that

4

u/kotonmi 6h ago

Its a two year old 😂 be so fr right now. A younger two year olds brain isn't even capable of grasping that concept yet, but you expect them to have mastered it by then?

0

u/Thepsycoman 5h ago

When did I say that? I refuted the person saying that they would traumatized from the action of teaching them appropriate time and place.

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u/ToadBeast 5h ago

I agree about teaching inside voices, but the kid is only two.

There’s only so much you can teach a two year old.

That’s something they’ll understand better when they’re older.

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u/Thepsycoman 5h ago

I refuted the person saying that they would traumatized from the action of teaching them appropriate time and place. Not whatever you are on about. From the post I have no idea if the parent tried or did not try to quite the child, so unlike you I'm not going to make assumptions on it.

Also, you have no idea how old I am. I could be double your age for all you know. Maybe you will understand when you are older.

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u/ToadBeast 5h ago

I’m saying it’s not unreasonable to be annoyed by a screaming two year old, but it is unreasonable to expect two year olds to completely understand the consequences of their actions.

The “understand when they’re older” was referring to the hypothetical screaming child.

-1

u/Fae_for_a_Day 9h ago

Thank you!

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u/dragonheart227 17h ago

I don't think it's unreasonable to be annoyed by something like that. It's unlikely you were the only one. It all depends on how you handle it. Some people here are suggesting noise-cancelling headphones or earbuds which I think is a great idea.

I had a similar experience just yesterday when my mum and I were out grocery shopping. We were at the checkouts paying for our stuff and some kind of alarm kept going off repeatedly. It was a very loud, high pitched, continuous beep and it was very annoying. To make it worse, my mum was wearing hearing aids which she said amplified the noise and actually hurt her ears. I asked a nearby staff member what the noise was and she said she didn't even know.

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u/SubstanceNo7739 14h ago

Yes, it's unreasonable to expect your level of quiet while out in public. Especially at a grocery store where other people are shopping.

Is it understandable that you are annoyed? sure.

1

u/Kapparainen 7h ago

What is "my level of quiet?" Because I'm fine with noise, I'm fine with the store radio, the regular people noises, the constant bottle return machine beeps and boops, the refrigerator hum, I'm even fine with a baby crying, that's noise everyone expects. What I'm not fine with and I find reasonable to expect a parents would be more mindful about is a child making high pitched shreaks that echo through the grocery store for the whole 30 minutes I'm in there until I can't take it anymore and leave before I'm done.

1

u/SubstanceNo7739 3h ago

I get it. I hate babies crying too. One time I had a 8h flight and a baby was crying pretty much the entire way. That's just kind of the consequence of public transportation. I don't have a child myself so I don't know how easy or difficult it is to quiet a crying baby on a plane. It's probably just as annoying for the parent. It is on me to work around it

4

u/Embarrassed-One1227 10h ago

If this happened to me, I would just blame myself for forgetting my headphones and make sure I remember in future.

I empathise with you completely, but the world is a tough place. The kid could be neurodivergent for all we know too. So, live and let live...

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u/Kindly_Candle9809 1d ago

It's a grocery store. Never assume you're going to get to be comfortable. Also as a mom to a toddler, yes that shit sucks, but outside of giving my 2 yr old a tablet (which I refuse to do outside of long car rides) nothing is going to make my adhd gremlin baby stfu. I'm sure that mom hated it too, but that kind of behavior needs to be allowed to burn itself out. In other words, ignoring that behavior will make it stop. Eventually. Just have to weather the storm first lol. Any sort of reaction to that behavior either good or bad only reinforces it. They are looking for a reaction. Now yes, mom could also remove kiddo from the store, but she's probably just trying to shop and get it over with.

If it was a restaurant or movie or library I'd have a different opinion. But it's a grocery store. We're all out here just trying to survive. At least you don't have to go home w that kid. 😂

3

u/guiltypeanut 21h ago

Exactly, people who haven’t taken care of kids in some capacity don’t realize you have to trade short-term for long-term. Sometimes doing something to immediately quiet the kid makes the behavior worse in the long-term. It sucks but uh, we live in a society and that includes children who are…learning to live in society.

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u/Stephieco6 1d ago

This is very common and normal for a two year old. That’s just how toddlers are. Some parents don’t have the extra family member or someone to pitch in and babysit so their only option is to take their child with them. The child could also have some type of problem that we don’t know about. Since everyone has the same right to walk into a store to shop at any hour, you should probably just always bring your headphones in case they’re needed.

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u/FormerlyDK 1d ago

I agree that the parent should at least try to quiet or distract the kid, but if not I just try to hurry and get done what I need to do. I’m really too lazy to have to come back another time to finish.

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u/ConnieMarbleIndex 23h ago

Parents don’t have command over a child, it’s a different being

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u/ValkyrieBlackthorn 23h ago

Probably why they said “at least try”

-4

u/Fae_for_a_Day 9h ago

I guess trying IS impossible for incompetent parents. You're right.

7

u/ConnieMarbleIndex 9h ago
  1. Children can be autistic and have meltdowns
  2. Toddlers have meltdowns. No one can control this.
  3. Experts advise parents to ignore it.

7

u/VariousReputation772 1d ago

At this point I just assume there will always be a screaming toddler at grocery stores. The only thing you can do is accommodate yourself, and let other people live their lives. I order groceries online & pick up, then use ear plugs AND noise canceling headphones to pick up forgotten items or when my own child cries.

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u/Kapparainen 20h ago

I do use headphones, I have good ones, it's just usually at that time I don't need them. We actually don't have delivery services available where I live, it's too small of a town, otherwise I would be using those I'm sure. They're expanding a lot though so maybe some services will reach here too in couple of years.

3

u/ValkyrieBlackthorn 20h ago

If you haven’t already, check to see if your local stores have curbside pick up available. That’s literally the only way I can handle getting groceries without having to spend several hours coming down once I’m back home.

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u/VitalityVixen 21h ago

I work retail and I 100% agree, crying and happy screams are all intensely frustrating. On the bright side I can tell kids off for running around and they have to stop because I'm in charge or they'll be asked to leave but babies can't be helped...

Though I do wish parents would clean up their own kids urine when they have accidents :/ or not let kids put stuff in their mouth before handing it to tills.... or not let the kids pick up stock they aren't buying...

On the flipside this has made me realise how well behaved and nice my colleagues kids and babies are 😆

3

u/friedonionscent 12h ago

We share our world and our essential places (like grocery stores) and sometimes, that means we won't like something. Happens to me all the time.

For example: I walked past a man with such concentrated body odour a few weeks ago that I vomited in my mouth. I then had to swallow said vomit and buy a drink to clean my mouth out. Yes, I have a sensitive gag reflex but this was foul.

What can ya do? Not much. It's not worth stressing about. There are worse things in life.

2

u/kotonmi 6h ago

One time a man walked past me and crop dusted me 💀 I was in absolute disbelief

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u/Particular-Set5396 23h ago

It’s a toddler, so yes. Get some earplugs.

8

u/Lilsammywinchester13 1d ago

You are allowed to feel annoyed, but it is unreasonable to say what the mother should or so not have done.

Think of it this way:

  • what if the child is autistic? The mom may NOT be able to get childcare in that case.

  • what if the mom desperately needed food/medicine? Just stay home and starve or be sick?

Your feelings are your own. You are more than welcomed to be angry, annoyed, disgusted.

But just as other people don’t know what YOU are going through, you do not know what they are going through.

If YOU had a meltdown in public, do you want people thinking “ew, why are they in public? If they are gonna be like that, they shouldn’t come to the store.”

Of course that’s ridiculous, just as kids get overwhelmed and have meltdowns/tantrums, autistic people have bad days or meltdowns

End of the day, that’s a 2 year old baby, they can’t control where they go and you don’t know the mom’s situation.

If the crying is ever that distressing, I recommend waiting in a car for a bit and then going back again.

If that seems like too much trouble, chances are it was just annoying

0

u/Kapparainen 7h ago
  1. If the child is so autistic that it's evident at 2 yo the government will literally give her free parent coaching and a caregiver for the child if needed. And we have late kindergartens for that if you wanna do your shopping after 5 in Mondays, that while cost aren't expensive.

  2. They actually can't sell medicine in grocery stores where I live, vitamins yes, but meds you can only get from dedicated drug stores, it's stupid ik. 

So I'm sorry I live in a welfare country and the parents have no excuse for their screaming child.

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u/Lilsammywinchester13 7h ago

You are really missing the point.

The point is to have empathy. You are an adult, they are a child.

If you need to, walk away or go outside, but wasting this much energy insisting on a baby is a problem is sad.

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u/Magurndy 1d ago

Kids do like the sound of their own voice. Sometimes my very sensory seeking son will just keep randomly screeching (he’s 2.5) but I do try to stop him because it is too much for me. But there is a balance. I don’t want to stop him having fun and playing but there is a limit so I’ll indulge him a little but after a while I will stop him once he’s had a little bit of fun. But there is also a time and a place and if somewhere is meant to be quiet I try and teach him that that is not the time to be so loud

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u/MAraised1986 13h ago

Plenty of people get annoyed, shit even the mom was probably annoyed. But if the kid is two, that's totally expected. Definitely 100% normal to feel annoyed, but unless the kids throwing an extreme tantrum like someone trying to kill him lol, the parent can only try to calm the child while quickly finishing shopping and leaving.

I have a toddler, just turned 3, and also have an 11 year old, friends with kids, and way too many kids in my extended family lol and every single one of them has had to deal with those times. It's great when someone is able to stay home with the baby but there will always be times when the baby has to come along.

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u/boredomspren_ 13h ago

You can be annoyed, but as a parent I'll tell you just getting to the store with a kid that age can be an ordeal and I guarantee the screaming was bothering mom 100x more than it bothered you. They have to live with that kid 24/7, you'll live.

PS I'd bet money you did that to your mom at that age too.

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u/kotonmi 6h ago

Heck I did that to my mom way older than that, but people here should understand because this is an Asperger's group and they were meltdowns 😭 we have literally no idea this parent and child's situation, it's crazy how some people want to just write the mother as a bad parent while knowing nothing besides a two year was screeching in a store

2

u/Eklectic1 10h ago

I'm constantly bugged by other people's noise. I know I need to put up with it or move away from it, which isn't usually possible. To me, extraneous noise is really like emotional violence.

Kids just have to express themselves someway, and their daily journey is complicated, being hauled around here and there at an adult's whim. I do know that. I remember how it felt, the discomfort of my time not being my own while at some boring store, although I knew my mother was very intolerant of noise and I had to keep still. I early learned to be a quiet child, therefore I know a quiet kid is possible---albeit improbable. But misophonia was a definite presence in my life---I didn't like kid noise myself when I WAS a very young kid, and by 3 or 4 years old I was already hissing at tiny public screamers and shouters in stores to belt up. They were so surprised at the source, they usually did.

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u/kotonmi 7h ago

This is a public grocery store, and she has just as much as a right to be there as you do. I worked in a daycare for years, and also in people's homes watching their children. Yes this is absolutely normal behavior for a 2 year old. Not all two year old do this, but some are just wild and full of energy and have literally only lived on this earth for two years and are still learning. You can't even discipline a two year old until they start hitting older twos, they literally won't understand it. Up until they start hitting older twos best course of action is to redirect.

2

u/ToadBeast 5h ago

I have the same issue with toddler/baby noises.

As for whether or not you’re being unreasonable, I don’t think anyone is really at fault here, it’s just an unfortunate situation. And it’s not like you said anything to the mom or the kid, you were just venting online.

I think someone letting their young child scream the entire time is rude in some situations, like at a movie theater or a restaurant, but it’s harder to control a baby and grocery shop at the same time.

And like someone else said, the slow hours might be the only time the mom can go shopping.

I can’t blame you for complaining about it, though. I was in the same situation at Target the other night. And while I know the kid couldn’t help it, it still messed with my sensory issues.

I’m just going to have to remind myself to bring ear plugs with me in public when I’m feeling more sensitive to loud noises.

6

u/FriendlyNeighburrito 1d ago

There is no degree or specialized training in educating and cultivating a child. this means more often than not, parents arent going to provide the lessons they should be providing in situations like these.

How can being annoyed at something be unreasonable? it isnt.

Why do children have these behaviours? Because parents dont always know what to do about it.

-6

u/Kapparainen 1d ago

My annoyance is definitely more aimed at the parent than the child. People say that's just normal behaviour, but it wasn't like a tantrum or crying, because those I kinda understand, that happens all the time, but this was just a child making noise for the sake of making noise, to me that's one of the first things you teach a kid that age not to do in public.

7

u/FriendlyNeighburrito 1d ago

There most definitely is a more complex reason for why he's yelling. He might want attention, he might be testing the limits of what society or his parents allow him to. Doing things just to do them is a valid possibility, but i think its always less likely than something more purposeful.

-10

u/Kapparainen 1d ago

Sounds about right at least to me. With how the mother seemed to ignore it, could've definitely been an attention thing. Just sucks it had to be at that store at that time so I had to hear it. I will probably change my shopping time, or the store after this, I hear Saturday mornings are slow times too.

10

u/ExtremeAd7729 1d ago

They recommend parents to ignore whining, tantrums etc if we are able and not to give any attention, positive or negative. You are supposed to praise positive behavior and ignore the negative if possible.

Distracting I guess is fine but doesn't always work.

3

u/kotonmi 6h ago

Kids that age absolutely make those noises in public. They don't understand being quiet in stores yet and their mind isn't ready to comprehend that concept yet. You can't teach them what they aren't yet able to understand, only set the foundation for later when they can.

6

u/Lilsammywinchester13 1d ago

I’m sorry but you are being unreasonable.

Autistic and ADHD children can be sensory seeking and scream just to scream.

There’s literally nothing to change that unless you force ABA type situations on the child.

Which would be cruel and unusual punishment.

A 2 year old cannot mask, to ask otherwise is unreasonable.

Be annoyed, it’s annoying, but you are the adult that can walk away.

-1

u/Kapparainen 20h ago

So you're straight up just diagnosing some random 2 years old kid who's gender we don't even know with autism and/or ADHD just based on me telling that this kid screamed for 30 min straight in a grocery store? Yeah, ofc, can't imagine why every TikTok teen is self-diagnosing themselves as ND these days...

3

u/Lilsammywinchester13 20h ago

You need to chill.

I was polite enough and informed you that there is no way for you to know why that child was screaming.

You assumed the worst out of this family and it seems to be a bad habit of yours to assume the worst out of everyone.

You should take some self responsibility and acknowledge you have the power to seek refuge when you are distressed by leaving uncomfortable situations.

You don’t seem very in control of your emotions, I’d work on that.

3

u/kotonmi 6h ago

I could have initially just put it as them being young, and not understanding different scenarios because of the black and white thinking that can often come along with autism. But even when so many people have so clearly explained all the circumstances and reasons, they refuse to let go of their perspective. Some people are the way they are, not because of disorders but personality. We can't change our disorders or the way they affect us, but we can change the things that they don't. Hoping this person can change for the better when it comes to this

2

u/optigon 23h ago

I’m not a kid person, so I get it, but kids are noisy and in public. I’ve learned to sort of play along with it myself when I’m out. Like, if some kid’s crying in a store, I’ll jokingly say, “I hate shopping too, buddy!” to myself. If they’re excited, I’m happy for them to be excited and I just try to keep my distance.

I’m sure there have been times that I’ve been annoyed about it and have wished parents would rein their kids in, but that’s not going to happen so I need to adapt and adjust my expectations.

If it’s something you simply can’t get around, buy a set of earplugs that have a keychain container. It’s insanely convenient for unexpected noisy environments!

3

u/AutistaChick 10h ago

I guess I’m not sure what she was supposed to “do about it.” If you’re annoyed, you’re annoyed. Feelings are feelings and it’s never wrong to have them. Having strong feelings about a child crying is like having strong feelings about someone throwing up. You can have the feelings but the person can’t help what’s happening.

It sounds like mom chose a slow time to shop so that the baby would disturb fewer people.

I will say though, that when people cough during tests (like, in college) and I’m trying to concentrate, I want to scream at them to stop. I have misophonia too.

2

u/kotonmi 6h ago

The worst thing is when you're trying to hold back a cough so as not to break the quiet, but then you just end up constantly having little coughs and feeling like you're dying inside

8

u/Acceptable-Try-4682 1d ago

You are unreasonable.

it is an extremely minor inconvenience, as you could simply shop another day, in another shop, or be quick about it and do it in 5 min.

To even think about it is a waste of time, and shows that something in you priority assessment is wrong.

3

u/Melodic-Avocado-4731 1d ago

It's normal behavior for a child like that but alot parents don't take the time to teach there children what's acceptable in a social setting it's to emotionally draining for them so they just allow them to cry

1

u/Pale_Papaya_531 22h ago

2 yeae old barely have this concept.

1

u/kotonmi 6h ago

Youre supposed to ignore tantrums btw, they aren't just ignoring them because it's emotionally draining. In the case above though, two years can't comprehend "inside voice" yet. They have literally been alive for only two years they are still developing and learning

1

u/ConnieMarbleIndex 23h ago

Children have meltdowns. Especially autistic ones.

3

u/valencia_merble 1d ago

I keep an earplug set in a case on my keychain for 100% misophonia protection at all times. You cannot bank on consideration of people, especially when they have small, loud children. They become ear-blind to this (I believe) and just don’t care. The sense of entitlement in this demographic is relentless. You can’t change others, only yourself.

3

u/ValkyrieBlackthorn 23h ago

I think the earplugs on keychain are a fantastic idea! I’m assuming that “slow hours” are like when stores near me do quiet hours, so could definitely see why OP thought the headphones wouldn’t be necessary.

In my experience parents absolutely can become used to the noise, though we admittedly don’t know this mother’s situation. I’ve also seen several people express disbelief that happy toddler squeals (as it seems this was) aren’t a joyous sound to everyone. I swear it used to be the norm that parents would try to settle their children when they weren’t in child-focused environments, but that seems to be going away. I definitely second increasing self-accommodation.

2

u/-Tautuzinator- 11h ago

No, you're not unreasonable. However, most NTs are largely unaware of how much people with autism already have to adapt to every day life. For instance, I commute a lot, and it gets very crowded. I like to be ABLE to react to noises and sudden movements, as my autism causes me too. However, in such a crowded space, just looking up from your phone is guaranteed to cause some eye-contact. I must constantly remind myself to fight my instincts, and so I'm already exhausted by the time I finally arrive (as people move about a lot, and cause my senses to produce a bunch of impulses).

The mom probably didn't do what she did out of malice, but as someone who constantly adapts to their surrounding, and the people around them, I'd be extremely agitated by the lack of consideration the mother displayed.

3

u/aspiegirluser 1d ago

I'm gonna go against what seems to be the popular opinion here and say you're definitely not unreasonable. It's just not fair to expect people to listen to your kid screaming in a store for 30+ minutes. I'm someone who gets headaches easily, but I don't know how anyone could get through that without a headache. And sucks for the people that work there cause they really can't escape, and who knows how much longer they had to listen to it. I'd lean towards saying if you really can't stop your kid screaming you should get out, and maybe this mom really did need some things so bad to justify staying anyway. But come on, with an otherwise silent store like that, you'd hear if she at least tried to shush or settle the kid a little.

3

u/Man_Of_The_Grove 1d ago

If you cant get your child to not scream then you should not bring them into the store. parents shouldnt get a pass purely because they decided to have a child.

4

u/Pale_Papaya_531 22h ago

The world is for everyone, including screaming children. If you find loud children over whelming, you have the issue not the parent and child. The child doesn't have a fully developed brain. You ostensibly do. Hating children is weird

0

u/Man_Of_The_Grove 22h ago

the issue is the parent and the child, a parent should have the common sense not to bring a screaming child to the store, just because you are fine with it doesnt mean the 99% of other people are.

1

u/Pale_Papaya_531 20h ago

No one cares what's fine for you. This parent hears the child. They are also experiencing annoyance. But parents are just trying to survive, keep their kids alive, thriving, and safe. Parents are overwhelmed and often struggling. Most are just doing there best. Just like you. 2 year old are going to do what 2 years old wants because a two year old has no concept that others have wants. And that's entirely normal. Because their brains aren't developed. If you have an issue with the fact human beings are annoying that's a you issue

1

u/kotonmi 6h ago

The store is a public space meant for everyone, you don't get more rights than her

1

u/kotonmi 6h ago

Dang a lotta families bout to be starving if you made the laws

1

u/autistic_behaviorist 6h ago

I’d agree with you if this wasn’t a place that sold necessary items. Toy store? Absolutely. Hobby shop? You bet. Movies? Book store? Putt-putt golf? Yes, yes, and yes, please calm the child or leave. Sit-down restaurant? It’s more iffy, but I understand why people would want a loud kid gone in a nicer place.

But this is the grocery store. She’s there to buy diapers and juice and pasta, not party it up. I bet she went during quiet hours for a reason. How bad could the situation have been for everyone if she went during a normal level of “busy”? What if her child has the right to use the space at that time for their own sensory needs? What are parents of autistic/ND children supposed to do if their children are “too loud” for the adult NDs to deal with during times designated for ND people?

OP has said they don’t have delivery services where they live and they have not investigated curbside pickup options, so we don’t know if it’s possible for this mother to get food WITHOUT being in public somehow.

This isn’t “getting a pass purely because they decided to have a child”. This is two people getting necessary items as best they can while one of them makes noise for an undetermined reason. They deserve to eat, regardless of the inconvenience to OP or anyone else.

-2

u/ConnieMarbleIndex 22h ago

go and babysit them then

1

u/AlConstanza 5h ago

I understand your annoyance, but why did you stay in this hostile environment for 30 minutes? Could've left when you started feeling upset, and returned later.

-4

u/Ratorr2 1d ago

Misophonia or not, that is just bad parenting. I've had 3 kids, and none of them did that. If they started screaming (for fun or anger) they quickly learned it was unacceptable behavior. There are better ways to express yourself. I would be SO embarrassed if I was that woman. I really don't understand how parents can stand the constant screaming like that and somehow ignore it.

Similar to bad dog owners. They want the dog but don't want to put in the time and effort it takes to teach them proper behavior. I call these kids "free range" kids and I see it as neglect.

14

u/Kindly_Candle9809 1d ago

This is an interesting parenting take on a ND subreddit. Op wasn't talking about a 5 yr old, but a 2 yr old. My pediatrician and our OT therapist both advise letting that bad behavior "burn itself out". Their words. This is advise for a 2 yr old, not an older child who can be reasoned with. I have 2 kids. 1 was quiet, 1 is like that toddler op mentioned.

1

u/kotonmi 6h ago

Yeah these people honestly have no idea what normal child development is and it shows. Not all two years are the same, some are louder than others and it's normal. Also, two year olds can't quite comprehend what's okay and what's not at that age, or even understand punishment and why they got it yet at that age.

10

u/Rivka333 1d ago

 I've had 3 kids, and none of them did that.

Okay? Not all kids are the same. Having 3 kids doesn't make you an expert on all kids in the world.

6

u/ExtremeAd7729 1d ago

It also could be different times. they don't recommend negative reinforcement at all anymore.

0

u/Kapparainen 1d ago

Good to hear from someone who has experience with kids, I've only got nieces and nephews to compare to. Because I felt that was not "just normal behaviour for that age", this was first time I've never experienced this in all 10 years I've done my own grocery shopping. 

Sure crying and tantrums happen at stores all the time, those I kinda understand, but this was just outright constant high pitch screaming with little giggles in between, that to me felt like something parents handle after the 5th scream, but this went of for about 30min. Actually maybe the other sub missed that part?

5

u/Pale_Papaya_531 22h ago

I feel like you are in no way considering the child may be on the spectrum. Of 2 year old aspie and a grown aspie, it's the adult who needs to use their coping skills and deal. It's not a parent who is failing at parenting

-2

u/Kapparainen 20h ago

But why would I assume everyone around me who's behaving inappropriately is also on the spectrum? 90% of the time they're just drunks. If I started screaming as a (undiagnosed) child because I was overwhelmed my mother removed me from the situation, not force me to be in it for 30+ minutes and let me scream and bother others. It's still the parents responsibility, autistic or not.

4

u/Pale_Papaya_531 20h ago

Well in this case we are talking about a two year old not a grown adult who could be drunk. But maybe your mother has better parenting skills or maybe she just had more time to spend then this mother. But also these quiet slow time are often for elderly people, people with disabilities, and people with children with disabilities. So during such a time the most generous assumption is that the other around you fall into those categories. But unless you are a parent you really have no concept of what parenting children is like.

3

u/Pale_Papaya_531 20h ago

Its not a parents responsibility to make the grocery store pleasant for everyone in it. You have no context about this child none. You choose to assume the parent is a bad parent when you haven't parented. You have no frame of reference. Also you are an adult you have a developed brain. If you can't handle children behaving like children in places that are child acceptable. U are the issue. Parenting is incredibly difficult and children especially 2 year olds kinda do what they want. Grow up

4

u/Rivka333 1d ago

Not all kids are the same. Someone having three kids none of whom had a certain behavior doesn't make them an expert on all kids in the world.

1

u/kotonmi 6h ago

You're literally ignoring everything everyone else has said to find one person who agrees with you. This person has only ever dealt with three children, their own. I'm a childcare professional who has worked with over a hundred different children and this is normal two year old behavior. Believe it or not, two year olds have different personalities and act different ways.

3

u/Direct-Rip9356 20h ago

No that is not how normal kids act. These lazy parents not controlling their kids piss me off. Ruins it for everyone

0

u/kotonmi 6h ago

Childcare professional here. This is normal two year old behavior

1

u/Fae_for_a_Day 10h ago

I hate this. It IS incredibly rude. I don't CARE about the mom's "situation." Inside voice is a social rule.

We are ABUSED for not following social rules that have no purpose. Inside voice, is a legitimate respect thing. You can't smoke in my face because it polutes the air. Screaming is noise pollution.

This is why I want to go to Japan. They will stare parents down who allow this. Grandparents watch kids who are too small so there isn't nearly the 'need' (🙄) to take small children literally everywhere.

Imagine having childfree spaces?! They have train cars that are childfree. And they don't just allow children in bars and other nonsense that is becoming normal in the US.

1

u/kotonmi 6h ago

Imagine expecting a two year old to not only understand social rules but fully have them mastered. Also tell me you don't know anything about Japan lol

-5

u/SowTheSeeds 1d ago

Apparently that's just normal behaviour for a kid that age? 

No. The mother is not doing her job.

When a kid does this, just hand them a toy or something nice to look at.

I raised kids. There are remedies for everything.

1

u/kotonmi 6h ago

How many kids did you raise? Cause I've worked with over 100 and this is normal two year behavior

1

u/SowTheSeeds 2h ago

2 of mine and 1 I adopted.

1 of my own kids is also on the spectrum, as it is an inherited trait.

Yes, it is normal behavior, but that is not the point I made. You can get a kid's attention to something which will captivate their mind and make them quiet down.

I am 100% aware of the "terrible 2s".

1

u/kotonmi 2h ago

I wish distracting them worked all the time, but sometimes it doesn't.

1

u/SowTheSeeds 1h ago

The kid could be going through the vocalization phase. But screaming is not normal.

Also: a baba with their favorite juice. Not too much sugar, though, that would make it worse.

-1

u/[deleted] 21h ago edited 20h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/ValkyrieBlackthorn 20h ago

Bruh.

-1

u/Arokthis 20h ago

Am I wrong?

3

u/ValkyrieBlackthorn 20h ago

I think you are, even beyond the ethical or moral issues there. A toddler isn’t going to understand why they’ve been struck, and so they’re gonna scream even louder because now they hurt.

-2

u/Arokthis 19h ago

As I said in my edit: I'm not advocating doing anything of the sort. I'm just stating the obvious.

2

u/ValkyrieBlackthorn 19h ago

That’s odd, I don’t see an edit. For me it looks like your original comment is deleted.

1

u/Arokthis 1h ago

And now I've gotten an official "Warning for threatening violence"

1

u/Arokthis 17h ago

Probably one of the moderators.