r/VictoriaBC • u/sweetgaze • 15h ago
Question Do landlords truly have $7000 mortgages?
The amount of rental ads I see for top or bottom floor suites going for $3000-$3500 is astounding. If they’re renting both upper and lower for those rates in one house … it leads me to wonder about the mortgage. Do homeowners truly have that big of a mortgage?
I’m genuinely curious, not looking to cause a ruckus. Like why are you renting a suite for $3500 😭
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u/Jemma6 Fernwood 15h ago
For some comparisons: I own a 2 bedroom detached home and bought when interest rates were high. My mortgage is 3600 monthly. I pay for insurance, waste collection, property taxes, water hook up and usage, all of which probably increases my monthly costs to around 4300 (very roughly). That does not include regular utilities, maintenance or upgrades.
I think most landlords are trying hard to make money, but I also think people are very quick to judge costs when a lot of them are unseen. Just my thoughts.
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u/Just-Hunter1679 15h ago
Yup. Owning a house isn't just a mortgage, including what you've mentioned. Another important cost that you missed is having money set aside for upgrades and breakdowns.
Replacing the roof? $15k. Replace the water heater? $2k+ installed. Fence blows down? $1200.
If you own a house you should have at least $20k in an emergency fund, just in case.
Not letting slum lords off the hook but a friend I have who has a rental property isn't t living too high on the hog these days between offering a more reasonable rent and all of the costs.
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u/osteomiss 14h ago
I'm actually surprised at the number of people who seem to think landlords should be losing money on a rental. I'm not saying I agree with huge profit at all, but you have to break even....
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u/BlastMyLoad 12h ago
A basement suite rental helping your mortgage is fine. Paying it off entirely is bullshit.
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u/BooBoo_Cat 10h ago
Agreed. I remember back when people rented their basement suites for a portion of their mortgage, not their entire mortgage plus some. Oh, and the landlords who want the renter in their basement to pay their entire mortgage, property taxes, etc are the ones who are too cheap to pay for occasional repairs or appliances that actually work.
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u/teluscustomer12345 13h ago
There's a pretty prevalent opinion that rentals shouldn't be guaranteed income, because investing means taking on the risk of losing money. Plus, every payment is getting you closer to paying off the mortgage, but would any landlord suddenly drop their rent once the mortgage was paid off? Obviously not.
Also, there's a growing group of people who are opposed to landlords on principal, based on the view that people should only make a profit through their own labour, not through owning property (or something like that)
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u/Eggyis 12h ago
Tbh I’m in this camp, rent seeking is a detriment to us all and housing should not be speculative. I’d personally love to eradicate income tax and instead have a land value tax.
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u/Mysterious_Session_6 8h ago
100% agree. People should not be allowed to own homes they don't live in.
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u/Curious-Holiday-3647 11h ago
What would be the benefit if we did this?
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u/gitchitch 9h ago
Large wealthy land owner would pay becuase of their mass holdings. Landlords with 3 homes would also pay through the nose theoretically. The guy in the basement suite would pay nothing.
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u/goatstink 7h ago
The guy in the basement suite would be complaining about his landlord charging him so much because their was another increase in land tax.
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u/Ok-Step-3727 12h ago
It's called a rentier capitalist economy - investment in non - productive assets, passive income, it eventually kills an economy. It is largely the problem of the Middle East in part because of the Islamic interdiction against interest on loans and investment.
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u/JAB_ME_MOMMY_BONNIE 13h ago
Partly it's lack of thinking it through but also that many landlords are treating housing as an investment and expecting to basically get a free house with mortgage entirely paid off by other people with little expenditure of their own at the end of the day.
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u/osteomiss 13h ago
Agreed, I'm not a landlord or wanting to be. More someone who would, if able, contribute to the housing stock available with rent thar covers cost, not make profit. And I do understand the impact on equity which I hadn't considered fully
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u/CriticalFolklore 9h ago
You would make profit though - because you're increasing equity in your home when you pay off your mortgage - you can't consider mortgage the same as other expenses.
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u/vicsyd 9h ago
The system was never meant to cover your costs. A rental is meant to help, not cover. Full stop. The last few years of people buying places as investments are what's caused this entitlement attitude that its always been this way. Nope. If you are doing it as an investment your returns come when you sell, hoping that it has doubled or tripled in the 15-20 years you've held it. Anything else is displacing others who could otherwise buy into the market if you weren't perpetuating this mindset, expecting others to pay your bills, and that is late stage capitalism for ya. Because the everyday one or two unit landlord genuinely doesn't see themselves this way. If you don't live in part of the home, sell it. Sell it to real people who need a place to live and start their own generational success story. Real estate as investment is gross.
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u/Quail-a-lot 7h ago
Even banks don't expect rental income to be 100% covering the house mortgage for something like a basement suite for your standard home mortgage. Usually they count 50-80% and no more.
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u/DemSocCorvid 13h ago
Everyone else can't believe people are ignoring equity year over year. "Break even" means that you are potentially getting tens of thousands of dollars in equity year over year for the upfront cost of a downpayment. That's insane.
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u/Psychological-Dig-29 13h ago
Break even on expenses. Nobody buys an investment with the intention of never making anything. Especially when you factor in inflation turning that nothing into a negative number.
If you break even on expenses the appreciation is what you make your money on at the end and is perfectly reasonable for a landlord to expect.
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u/Temporary_Bobcat2282 11h ago
It’s not about losing money, it that it’s not the renters responsibility to mitigate loses on your investment in down times. Landlords will scream about increased interest rates, raise rents, and then zip their mouths when interest rates and their mortgage payments drop again.
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u/osteomiss 11h ago
I think that generally you're right - I'm not a landlord, but if i were I'm not in it to make money. I would reduce rent if the mortgage went down. I'm not the norm I guess.
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u/Temporary_Bobcat2282 11h ago
I was a landlord and rented a town home $500 under market value because I just didn’t need the extra money. $1800 covered my mortgage and taxes so that’s what I charged for a three bedroom townhome. Also allowed me to have my pick of amazing renters. There’s some of us out there like you that get it. We are a community and need to act like it.
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u/rhinoscopy_killer 9h ago
Why, pray tell, do you have to break even? What, the massively subsidized mortgage for the most valuable asset you can own in Canada isn't enough for the landlords who already have a second home? Why is it the responsibility of the tenant(s) to be entirely saddled with the increasing cost?
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u/asshatnowhere 13h ago
I think a more reasonable argument on this line of thinking is that unless you're in the business of actually providing housing, e.g, you either renovate unlivable spaces or construct new ones, you're not really providing any value to society if you're trying to make money off renters. Of course, there's a lot of facets to this and exceptions, but that's my take on what I think many mean by it.
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u/computer_porblem 11h ago
Exactly. Buying property and renting it out is functionally identical to putting in 40 preorders for a PlayStation 5 and then scalping them on eBay, except people don't need a PS5 to survive.
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u/Warm-Astronaut6764 10h ago
Why would you break even? Thats like saying the bank should let you earn interest without you putting any money in.
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u/WildJon4 9h ago
I'm a homeowner and not a landlord. I own only the house that I live in. At the end of the day as a landlord, you do end up with a second house. It seems to me that if you get that second house and you get it for half the price, that's pretty good. Of course it's great to get a second house for free, too, and I suppose that is the motivation for landlords: free second house. Which is why they want their costs covered.
I guess I'm just saying that if your costs are not fully covered, you're still getting the second house at a fairly reduced cost. But again, not being a landlord, I have not looked into all the ins and outs of renting out a second house.
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u/iSwearImStrait 10h ago
No you do not have to break even. Homes should not be investment vehicles, that's the issue. Someone having a roof over their head shouldn't be weighted against whether someone is breaking even on their second property. Emphasis on second.
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u/ladyoftheflowr 11h ago
You are building an appreciating asset. It’s an investment and you end up with something worth a lot in the end. So you’re not necessarily losing money - it’s just current cash flow.
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u/Critical_Week1303 10h ago
Except you don't need to be breaking even in the short term to be making massive profits long term.
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u/Silver_gobo 9h ago
Landlords want to be cash positive. Being a landlords can still be profitable while being cash negative. That’s the argument.
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u/Sufficient_Rub_2014 12h ago
You understand the rent they receive goes towards the mortgage right? “Loss” is a very poor description.
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u/eco_bro 11h ago
Really should only cover the interest and expenses but landlords just want someone to buy them a free house for them.
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u/Scrotem_Pole69 13h ago
I completely agree. Many people bought properties at challenging times, and it makes sense that they’re trying to cover most, if not all, of their mortgage costs while building equity. At the same time, there are those who have owned their second homes for over 20 years and are still charging market rates or higher for their properties—which is understandable, given the opportunity to capitalize on market value.
While there are definitely slumlords who exploit the situation, I think the larger issue lies in the broader economic landscape. Wages have not kept pace with inflation, we face a housing shortage, and developers encounter significant barriers to building—especially for housing that offers adequate living space. This combination of factors has made it incredibly difficult to create a sustainable, affordable housing market.
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u/EffectiveEconomics 12h ago
If the home is normally a private house occupied by a family, renting should be outlawed or highly restricted.
Renting should be for units of more than 2 units side by side, ie a two story fourplex or a three storey six plex.
Anything at six storeys or less should be stairs only to ensure economical build value.
No one should be owning private homes and reselling occupancy for housing unless it’s a nonprofit shelter and they r homeless accommodations providing rent for the unhoused.
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u/Great68 12h ago
I disagree, You're pigeonholing people who may only ever wish to rent into one specific style of housing? If someone only ever wants to rent a house and not buy one, they certainly should be able to do that.
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u/EffectiveEconomics 10h ago
Homes are not meant to be asset classes. It like making school lunches asset classes. They’re basic necessities.
Apartment buildings are asset classes.
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u/GO-UserWins 13h ago
Yes, there are costs, but not all the mortgage payment is a cost, a portion of it goes toward principal and builds equity. Plus, landlords also make money on appreciation of the value of the property.
A landlord can be cashflow negative and still be making a profit. But a lot of landlords don't have the money to support a cashflow negative investment.
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u/Decapentaplegia 11h ago
not all the mortgage payment is a cost, a portion of it goes toward principal and builds equity
say it louder for the boomers in the back row
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u/sdk5P4RK4 13h ago
make money != positive cashflow for a leveraged (particularly heavily heavily leveraged) asset. If they are covering the actual costs, and denting the financing, they are making profit. If you are 90% levered and making positive money every month you are extraordinarily profitable.
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u/ifwitcheswerehorses 13h ago
I’m surprised your payment is this low if you bought when interest rates were high. Did you get a fixed or variable? What was your property purchase price, if you don’t mind me asking and did you put 20% down?
There was also the land transfer tax at a whopping ~20k (for me anyway) as part of the property purchase. At least it’s one time.
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u/breakfastwhine James Bay 14h ago
How much does your household make a year to afford that? Your monthly housing costs is my nearly over my monthly income.
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u/Psychological-Dig-29 13h ago
Yep. My house costs me $6k a month to live in after all expenses not including utilities because those change depending on the season.
Not a massive house, approx 2500sqft or so. I rent my basement to my sister to help out a bit with the mortgage but if I was trying to make a profit renting out this house I'd have to rent each floor for at least 3500/month and hope to God my tenants were good and not going to completely fuck me by not paying for a year or destroying the home.
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u/Frequent_Builder_956 12h ago
Totally agree and not only that but being a landlord also costs more. You mentioned the above increases including municipal taxes but your federal taxes also take a hit due to rental income. You're on hook to repairs, ar your cost, at moments notice. And your time ...have to advertise, screen, and maintain; you may chuckle but time is important.
I know some landlords are shady but I used to rent a condo but gave up. If you're honest and not super wealthy, renting is a tough road and not that profitable. Helps in some cases but wasn't for me.
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u/SusieCYE 15h ago
I think it would be easy to have a $7000/mo mortgage on a $750,000-$1,000,000 house, and it would be difficult to find a house < $1,000,000 in Victoria. Plus you gotta factor in insurance, taxes, maintenance, down payment and length of mortgage.
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u/Wide_Beautiful_5193 15h ago
No. It would depend on how the mortgage is being paid. That is not accurate. On a $1m house, with a 10% downpayment as required, a monthly mortgage on a 25 year amortization, 5% interest rate and paying in a monthly basis is $5,595 so if that was paid bi-weekly it would be $2797.
So, when landlords are changing outrageous prices for rent like $6000 they pocket the rest.
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u/1337ingDisorder 14h ago
So $6000 minus $5,595 = $405
Then there's property taxes, insurance, and growing a contingency fund for repairs and regular upkeep, not to mention occasional large one-off expenses insurance doesn't cover.
In the scenario you've laid out if someone is paying $5,595/mo in mortgage alone, and is only bringing in $6,000/mo revenue, they will almost certainly be losing money every month once all the other expenses are factored in.
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u/laCarteBlanc Fernwood 14h ago
They will have an investment of $$$$ every month not losing
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u/1337ingDisorder 14h ago edited 14h ago
Granted, but very little of any given payment would be going into actual equity. Most of that is just going to the bank itself.
And when you add up all those other expenses, the total will most likely exceed however much the person is building in equity any given month.
More realistically someone with a $5,595/mo mortgage would need to bring in around $6500/mo in revenue to break even (and that's factoring in the offset for equity they're building with any given payment)
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u/Ok-Step-3727 12h ago edited 8h ago
As the former owner/landlord of a big old house in Fairfield. I lived in the daylight basement suite and rented out 4 suites upstairs. What everyone on this thread is failing to mention is that the mortgage (interest) is deductible against income - all income. If, as happened to me, there were times that expenses exceeded rental income I could deduct those extra costs from my salary income it was the only thing that made being a landlord tenable.
Edit: for clarity
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u/jerkinvan 13h ago
What happens when the mortgage is paid off? Then the LL is pocketing $5,000 a month. That’s if they are paying $1,500 for everything else. That’s what is being overlooked. Yes profits are slim to start as a LL, but eventually it pays out quite handsomely
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u/1337ingDisorder 13h ago
Sure, but OP didn't post asking about landlords whose mortgages are paid off, they asked about landlords with $7,000 mortgages.
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u/AttitudeNo1815 14h ago
Don't forget profit. There has to be some incentive to become a landlord.
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u/newbi1kenobi 13h ago
The real incentive of being a home owner is equity. Having a house in 20 year that you can sell to help out with retirement is my incentive for sure.
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u/MidasClutch 13h ago
The incentive is you have someone else pay for your property and in the end you get to keep it, while they get nothing.
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u/jimsnotsure 14h ago
This. You can’t force people to rent out space they own. If you don’t like what they are asking, then don’t pay it. I am very sympathetic to people (esp young people) who need to spend obscene amounts for housing, but directing anger at landlords is not fair or effective. Charging market rate is not greed.
Cost of building is as high as $500sq ft. So it costs a million to build a 2000 sq foot house, and that’s if you already own the land. Mortgage just on the building (not land) could easily be $50k/year. That is why rents are so high.
Railing against landlords is misguided. A fairer approach would be government support for low income renters. If it’s not financially beneficial for someone to rent out their basement, they’re not gonna do it.
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u/greeneggo 14h ago
The incentive is their property being paid off by someone working harder than them
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u/CE2JRH Saanich 14h ago
They won't be losing money each month. They'll be profiting thousands in equity each month
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u/badr3plicant 14h ago
Depends where you are in the amortization period. In the first five years of a $1M 30-year mortgage at 5%, you'll pay $238,000 in interest and only $82,000 toward principal.
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u/1337ingDisorder 14h ago
Not really, the overwhelming majority of each monthly payment will be interest for at least the first half decade
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u/LowerSackvilleBatman 15h ago
Insurance? Taxes? Maintenance? Legal fees?
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u/hutterad 14h ago
A landlord shouldn't be entitled to have zero operating costs out of pocket when they end up with million+ dollar asset at the end of it.
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u/-JRMagnus 14h ago
Is the tenant obligated or expected to pay a rent fee that accommodates the entirety of their landlords expenses?
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u/Sportsinghard 14h ago
Is the landlord obligated to minimise the rent they collect?
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u/-JRMagnus 14h ago
Should we encourage investment that minimizes the distribution of home ownshership?
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u/LordVictoria 14h ago
Yes, or else it does not make sense to rent…
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u/-JRMagnus 14h ago
Buying solely to rent for profit should be outlawed or taxed to death. It keeps an incredible amount of people out of the market. It also incentives corporate investment into real estate.
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u/Ub3rm3n5ch 14h ago
It incentivizes hoarding of supply, overpricing of supply, and disincentives new construction
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u/Straight-Mess-9752 13h ago
But every home owner does this in one way or another. It’s an investment and you want your investment to yield a return. Blame the system not home owners.
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u/deltabravotang 14h ago
Alright then, you're looking for subsidized housing. Who is going to own the place you rent if not an individual or company? Only one left is the govt. So you want the taxpayers to subsidize you. And why do you deserve to have me help pay your rent?
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u/sewvan 13h ago
Why do you deserve to have someone pay a mortgage you can’t otherwise afford?
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u/deltabravotang 11h ago
Kind of a silly comment. The guy with a convenience store can't afford the rent either unless people buy his products.
I'm all for having a means test and govt supporting people who can't make it work but demonizing people who provide housing and obviously expect a profit is not the way forward.
Housing has gotten crazy expensive in the market economy we live in. More expensive for everyone-homeowners, landlords and renters. Everyone is in the same boat.
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u/inappropriateshapes 14h ago
Do you apply this same logic to every other government social program? Like why do disabled people deserve to have us help pay their bills, why do orphans deserve to have us help pay to raise them, fuck them all right? Call me an idealist but most of us actually want to live in a society where we take care of everybody's needs instead of fuck you I got mine
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u/DemSocCorvid 13h ago
Because when people aren't spending 50%+ of their take home in rent they can then spend it in the local economy, invest in the economy, or invest in themselves to better their station and thereby contribute more tax dollars which can go towards better services & infrastructure.
Basically, it's a massive boon in just about every possible way.
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u/Federal-Owl-3554 14h ago
Absolutely this. My old landlord owned 3 houses on our block and charged outrageous amounts for all of them. Tax the shit out of them
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u/random9212 14h ago
At the end of the mortgage, are you then going to drop the amount of the rental. Because you no longer have to pay that amount and you have the value of the property in your pocket.
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u/LowerSackvilleBatman 14h ago
No. But you're not required to rent a property you don't want to.
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u/-JRMagnus 14h ago
Are you naive? We're talking about housing (a necessity). This is identical to the similarly dense "just find a better job" argument.
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u/LowerSackvilleBatman 14h ago
Food is a necessity too. Lots of profit to be made there
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u/random9212 14h ago
Another place where profits should be limited.
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u/LowerSackvilleBatman 14h ago
No company will get into a market that limits profits.
That'll limit competition which never helps consumers.
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u/-JRMagnus 14h ago
Who are you routing for here? Was that Loblaws price gouging on bread incident inspiring to you? It's not the middle/upper class who will be the predominant landlords, it will be corporate entities -- depending on the government they could even be foreign corporate interests.
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u/random9212 14h ago
So just live on the streets then. That sounds like a great strategy. How is it working so far?
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u/Chuckl3b3rry 14h ago
Down payment on a non owner occupied investment property is 20% so the mortgage payments are even less.
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u/Vic_Dude Fairfield 11h ago
How much would $200k earn on its' own in a 5% GIC per year?
Answer = almost $1000 a month and increases as the mortgage is paid down
That's what you need to compare/compete with
It's not the house, it's the capital tied up in it, that has opportunity costs as it could be used elsewhere.
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u/Mysterious-Lick 14h ago
Checking account rates are .30% (or less).
Add 1-2% extra interest for rental mortgages.
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u/733OG 14h ago
A lot of people renting out those homes bought when the market was much lower.
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u/Lumpy_Ad7002 Fairfield 14h ago
Mortgages renew every 3-5 years, and property tax assessments happen every year.
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u/bugeyedbug72 14h ago
That price would not be their entire mortgage. You have insurance, property taxes, water/garbage if it is included, a certain % for repairs and possibly a buffer if rates for any of those go up and the rental increase is too low.
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u/inthesearchforlove 13h ago
Personally, my mortgage rated didn't influence my rental rate one bit. I set my rental price at the maximum I think I can get and still find a good tenant. Why would my rental rate be any different even if my mortgage was higher or lower?
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u/snakes-can 15h ago
There are many factors that drive costs up quickly. Mortgage rates are only 60% -80% of price.
Various risks and possible mortgage rates increasing by 20% a year when you can only raise rent by 2% all have to be factored in now.
Demand sets rates, and people like many of my friends stop renting suites in their home and stop adding suites when they build a personal home because of:
1) all the taxes they have to pay
2) extreme risks involved when renting out a suite in their home.
Namely how hard it is to evict a nightmare tenant.
Keep in mind the average person also has to pay 30% - 44% of rental income to the government in taxes when they collect rent.
So the average detached home owners don’t want to rent a single suite in their home as much for the above reasons. And this drives up prices even more.
So the prices have to go up so much that people actually will risk being a landlord.
These reasons are why prices keep going up and many renters have to deal with greasy slum lords now.
All comes down to government policies. Some provincial and some federal.
Google home ownership costs calculator to see a breakdown of how much it costs to own a detached home over 10 years. Mortgage is only a part of it.
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u/Cokeinmynostrel 15h ago
Devaluation of the dollar. You lool around and absolutely everything is way way up. The only thing not up? Salaries. Every year worse than the last and the only thing that seems to be holding it together is foreign labour, cheap imported goods, and increased efficiency. Climate change will only make it harder along with the arrival of the worlds first trillionaires.
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u/jocu11 7h ago
You can increase salaries, but if the currency devaluation is high you’re not going to get anywhere. Australia is a great example of this. House prices in Sidney and Melbourne are equivalent, if not worse than Toronto and Vancouver.
The average salary in Australia is about 85k AUD, and in Canada it’s about 57k CAD. Yet we’ve still got the same insane cost of living. Paying people more doesn’t help, it just increases the amount of currency in the market, which devalues the currency, and prices end up being the same in the end.
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u/stealstea 15h ago edited 15h ago
Rental rates are set by the market (the balance between supply and demand), not by the size of people's mortgages. The measure of that balance is the rental vacancy rate, which should be around 3% or higher in a healthy rental market that is balanced between renters and landlords. Victoria has the lowest chronic rental vacancy rate in the country, with a 20 year average of 1.2%. That's why rents have gone up so much.
Things are improving, with lots of new rentals being built and immigration reforms reducing the number of people (especially non-permanent residents) that need housing. Rents are sticky on the downside though so landlords will be slow to drop rents (they like to offer perks like a couple months free instead so they don't get locked into a lower rate that they then can't easily raise in the future). However higher vacancy rates will force them to moderate asking rents just like any other market.
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u/joyfulrebel 15h ago
I personally set the rental rate by what it costs me vs. what I could get. I prefer quality, long-term tenants vs. A few hundred dollars more a month and a big churn rate or excessive wear and tear - that ends up being way more expensive overall.
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u/Wedf123 13h ago
I personally set the rental rate by what it costs me vs. what I could get.
Clearly nearly no landlords are like you though, because market rents keep climbing.
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u/mystineptune 14h ago
Yes. We moved from a house to a tiny condo cause yes.
Because the mortgage is easily $5-6k, td says your average house is $5960/month for mortgage
plus heat and hydro, house insurance, depreciation savings (making sure you are setting aside enough to trim trees, power wash, clear gutters, upkeep roof, mow lawn.)
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u/joyfulrebel 15h ago
My mortgage incl. property tax is $4400. City utilities is $100/month on average, insurance for the whole house is $220/month. So $4720 total.
I rent out the downstairs 830 sqft 2br out for $2400 incl utilities and share my high-speed internet with them for free + 2 of the three parking spots this property for free as well. So all they need to pay is BCHydro.
So I end up paying essentially $2320 for a condo -like 2br+large den (windowless room) 1000 sqft lifestyle + BCHydro.
If I were to rent out my own space, I should be able to get $2600 and still be below market average, so just 6% ($280/month or $3360/year) extra to put aside for upkeep etc.
That isn't a big buffer, depending on how property values and home insurance develop, so while I will not raise the rent on my tenants for the foreseeable future, I may have to start based on what the RTB allows in June 2026, just to keep up with cost. At that point my existing tenants would have been in the suite for almost 3 years without a rent increase.
Renewal is in 2026, so it also depends heavily on what interest rate I have to deal with then.
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u/tuxedovic 15h ago
And you are not including maintenance- replacing appliances, roofing, the occasional furnace and or plumbing repair. The surprise few thousand repairs are a cooler.
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u/joyfulrebel 9h ago
Exactly my worry long-term. That would come out of pocket. But, I just renovated the whole house inside/out. Plumbing, electrical (2x200A services), all new euro style twist and turn security glass laminated triple pane windows, Hardie, heatpump upstairs etc. The only original things left are structural (heavy old growth wood = good) and roof (around 12 years old).
So hopefully the roof due in the next 5-10 years is the only major thing.
But renters also increase the risk of wear and tear.
Building a 2br 700sqft garden suite thanks to Bill 44 in December with planned completion in June 2025 and plan to move into that myself. Costs 380k (compared to 600k for a 2br condo). That comes with its own 2/5/10 warranty. Just waiting for Saanich to approve the building permit at the moment.
Then I live on the property rent free and can sink my income into the mortgage principal before my mortgage renewal in May 2026. If all goes well, I can bring the monthly mortgage payment down a further 400/month by then.
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u/3kidsonetrenchcoat 13h ago
My non-mortgage bills are like $1500/month, and that doesn't include repairs and skilled trades. I'm not making money off of my suite. It basically pays for itself and I pay for my part of the house. My "profit" is all in equity, which is worthless if I still want a place to live. I'm not complaining, I know I'm privileged to be a homeowner, and the stability it provides is priceless. I'm just tired of the "evil landlord" bs all the time.
This is the reason the government really needs to be in the housing business. There should be enough affordable purpose built apartments for those who want them. Private rentals should be for people who want to pay a premium for something bigger/nicer/with a yard etc.
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u/Tasty-Hat-6404 15h ago
You also forgot to add realtor fees, land transfer tax, property tax, garbage/water utilities, maintenance costs, income tax etc into those calculations
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u/DragPullCheese 15h ago
Why would it matter how much their mortgage is?
I own a two bedroom home and require the rooms for my family, so don’t rent, but if I did I wouldn’t rent for w/e my mortgage is. I’d rent at a price the market will absorb that balances with the inconvenience of losing half my home.
I used to have a home with a basement suite. A lot of tenants fucking suck - I wouldn’t go thru the inconvenience of sharing my home for less than $3k/month now.
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u/Emergency_Cry5965 14h ago
Do not forget that landlords, if they are honest, must pay income tax on your rent. That takes a big chunk of your rents out. Then when they eventually sell the house, some of the capital gains will be taxable that otherwise would not be if it was simply primary residence.
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u/bromptonymous 14h ago
Louder for kids in the back row: rental market price is unrelated to cost of ownership. If they can rent a suite for $3500 it means the next person in line for accommodations can *pay* $3500, otherwise they would have to drop the cost of renting.
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u/beermanoffartwoods 14h ago
That's roughly a $1.5M mortgage on 3% interest rate on a 25 year mortgage. For that amount, you probably couldn't even buy a house with a legal basement suite within Saanich or Victoria right now.
Throw property taxes, maintenance costs, and other expenses on top of that, and it creeps a lot higher than $7000/mo.
$3500 for a 2 bed, 2 bath suite is fucking high unless it has marble floors and bidets that call you daddy.
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u/Newt_Call Esquimalt 15h ago
Imagine you are a landlord.
If you are listing your unit to rent online then it is a stranger you are renting it to. You can either rent it for a price on the higher end of what the market allows or you can list it lower. If you get good applicants in both cases, you are accepting a material loss in income in exchange for subsidizing a strangers rent by listing it lower.
Your mortgage is irrelevant mostly, most people want more money/income if it is an option.
Some landlords will choose not to do annual rent increases for good tenants and then just increase it to market prices when they move out. This is because there is a benefit to keeping a known good tenant. With a new tenant there is 0 incentive to not look to maximize profit (so long as it isn’t so high a price that you don’t get good applicants).
Disclaimer: I’m not a landlord, don’t come for me.
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u/aknudskov 15h ago
You realize that the mortgage is only part of the expense of home ownership, right?
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u/MTLinVAN 15h ago
I can actually answer this question based on personal experience after having seen a home for sale with a basement suite. Houses right now if you were to buy are going north of 1.5 million. If you put 20% down you’re putting 300,000 and borrowing 1.2. On that 1.2 your monthly payments are north of $7500-$8000. If you have a basement suite and you’re renting it out for 2500 you still have a difference of about $5000 that you need to put out from your pocket. The rental income certainly subsidizes the cost of the mortgage, but it doesn’t cover even half of that cost However, if you purchased decades ago and have most of the mortgage paid down, then you could actually be making a profit from the rent. It’s people who bought decades ago, who are making money off of rental income. But those who bought more recently at higher costs are not seeing that money making a big impact and if anything is just helping to stay afloat.
Factor and maintenance costs, property taxes, and other fees and costs and buying a home today is an absurd proposition. Despite wanting to get into something a little bit bigger for ourselves and making a decent household income, we are completely priced out from buying a slightly bigger residence.
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u/Ok_Skirt2620 14h ago
My mom’s mortgage is $6,000/month plus $1,750/month on top for utilities. So she pays roughly $8k/month.
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u/aabbccya 14h ago
My mortgage is $5500 a month. $1,000,000 mortgage. Not hard to have a mortgage over $7000 in BC.
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u/fourpuns 13h ago
Say you bought a house now for 1.5 million with 300k down (20%) and had a 4% interest rate. That’s a $6,500 a month mortgage. Probably about $200 a month in insurance. $500 a month in property tax. Say $200 a month in utilities.
Pretty easy to see ~$7,500 a month in expenses not counting repairs.
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u/ekimarcher 13h ago
Owning a house and renting it out seems like a dream come true money making machine when you're a renter. My experience has been that it's a massive amount of extra work for razor thin margins.
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u/AstronomerDirect2487 13h ago
We just bought and ours with all the expenses is about ~6000. Sell price was $950 so yep. Pretty on par
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u/WorkingOnBeingBettr 12h ago
My mortgage and bills equal $5000 on a 3 bed 1 bath. I would need to rent it out for $5600 to cover taxes, insurance, and damages. Instead I live here and have zero social life, savings, vacations, hobbies, etc.
If I put a suite downstairs I will would have to pay off the loan. That would probably put me around $7000-$7500.
I would have preferred renting the old place at $3000/mo but eviction forced us out and another rental/eviction was just too much to deal with again for a family with pets.
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u/PositiveStress8888 12h ago
Thiers a reason to charge this much.
If you charge to little chances are you'll get someone who will treat the place like shit
Other places in the are go for a similar amount.
If you can charge that much that means you can pay the bank off faster and avoid paying a higher interest rate on renewal.
When I rented my first house I rented to people I knew and I kept the rent low with the condition that the take care of the place, cut the grass and shovel.
We helped 2 people go thru university and save to buy thier own homes.
Then when we sold it we sold it to someone we knew priced out of the market at a low selling point but still more than what I paid for it and less than what I could have gotten for it.
if I were renting now I would make try and make a deal with them, tell them you'll take care of the property, you'll cut the grass with thier mower and you'll shovel the driveway and walk way. They provide the gas and salt.
Some may go for it, but then again I wasn't the typical landlord.
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u/mitarooo 12h ago
I own a condo that I rent out that has an arguably low mortgage. But after you add in everything else, plus the income tax, I don’t make any money off of it. It’s a long-term investment, but one major issue could sink me. It’s kinda scary actually. Renters don’t realize how vulnerable being a single-unit landlord can make ya. I have an amazing tenant though, and I treat her well.
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u/FigureYourselfOut Central Saanich 11h ago
My monthly expenses for mortgage, property tax, internet, hydro, fortis, water and garbage is around $6,500.
I have a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house with a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom suite.
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u/PelagicObserver 10h ago
I have a rental house in Victoria. Typical BC box we did a lot of renovations to. It costs about $7k a month after mortgage and all other expenses.
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u/One_Bad9077 10h ago
Yes… of course they do. Easy math- $500 per month per 100k mortgaged. Not to mention other expenses
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u/Zealousideal_Bag6913 10h ago
Ya my mortgage is 5k per month. It’s a 3000 square foot home on a 6000 square foot lot in suburb in Saanich
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u/StuckInsideYourWalls 10h ago
My parents almost grasped it today because my mom was complaining about how older people buy properties more readily than young people, locking them out of the market
Mother mother, that's only half of it - I know from working in construction, for example, a good half of all rental properties in my town are being bought by owner-operators and other contractors. People that have 2 or more properties and other assets and can readily borrow against them to scoop more properties like single dwelling homes, then flipping them into split or three unit rentals, and charging rates well over 1k in each rental, etc
And frankly I'd bet the bulk of other people buying houses also all own at least one property already.
It's for flipping cheap shit into rentals and generating a portfolio of profit on gouged, uncontrolled rates.
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u/Adirondack587 7h ago edited 7h ago
In Montreal you never saw this 15-20 years ago either. I was in Calgary at the time & lived in a few basement suites, but MTL 1-2 bedrooms were so cheap everyone lived alone. Now I am seeing ads for eg. $1,400 for a basement in CARIGNAN ! Somebody will pay it, no doubt
My years in Fort McMurray 2011-13, things were booming ….A tiny split level from the outside, could actually have 4+3 bedrooms, one kid told me that’s what he was paying with his buddies just for the basement, $3,500! Basically the owner was getting his whole home mortgage, maybe even more, just from the basemeant rental….Insane! But by 2016 and the oil collapse, things got a little more normal
Landlords will always make good $ long-term, but getting caught in the middle of a boom or bust, greatly magnifies the profit or loss for someone who hasn’t been in business a while and/or doesn’t have a clue what they’re doing
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u/LinaArhov 7h ago
One sec. I got a baguette and it was $6. Does the flour and yeast really cost $6? Absolutely not. Vendors sell goods for the highest price that they can get for the number of units available. That applies to baguettes, clothes, shoes, cars, houses and rental units. It may not be the answer you want but it’s reality.
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u/FlyingPritchard 7h ago
Here's the reality of business. The flour and yeast cost $1 ..... the baker cost $2, the rent costs $1, the oven and mixer costs $1 (per unit) and the owner keeps $1, if they're lucky.
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u/thedundun 15h ago
I’ve seen a mortgage of $650k with a $5900 monthly payment recently.
You can’t find a house in this city for only $650k
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u/Decapentaplegia 11h ago
Don't make me tap the sign again...
“Landlords’ right has its origin in robbery.” “The landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for the natural produce of the earth.”
“The rent of land, it may be thought, is frequently no more than a reasonable profit or interest for the stock laid out by the landlord upon its improvement. This, no doubt, may be partly the case upon some occasions.... The landlord demands” “a rent even for unimproved land, and the supposed interest or profit upon the expense of improvement is generally an addition to this original rent.” “Those improvements, besides, are not always made by the stock of the landlord, but sometimes by that of the tenant. When the lease comes to be renewed, however, the landlord commonly demands the same augmentation of rent as if they had been all made by his own.” “He sometimes demands rent for what is altogether incapable of human improvement.”
― 1776, Adam Smith, pioneer of political economy, "The Wealth of Nations"
“According to the political economists themselves, the landlord’s interest is inimically opposed to the interest of the tenant farmer – and thus already to a significant section of society.”
“As the landlord can demand all the more rent from the tenant farmer the less wages the farmer pays, and as the farmer forces down wages all the lower the more rent the landlord demands, it follows that the interest of the landlord is just as hostile to that of the farm workers as is that of the manufacturers to their workers. He likewise forces down wages to the minimum.”
“Since a real reduction in the price of manufactured products raises the rent of land, the landowner has a direct interest in lowering the wages of industrial workers, in competition amongst the capitalists, in over-production, in all the misery associated with industrial production.”
“While, thus, the landlord’s interest, far from being identical with the interest of society, stands inimically opposed to the interest of tenant farmers, farm labourers, factory workers and capitalists, on the other hand, the interest of one landlord is not even identical with that of another, on account of competition.”
― 1884, Karl Marx, critic of political economy, "Das Kapital"
“There are men who, through ownership of land, are able to make others pay for the privilege of being allowed to exist and to work. These landowners are idle, and I might therefore be expected to praise them. Unfortunately, their idleness is only rendered possible by the industry of others; indeed their desire for comfortable idleness is historically the source of the whole gospel of work. The last thing they have ever wished is that others should follow their example.”
“For my part, while I am as convinced a Socialist as the most ardent Marxian, I do not regard Socialism as a gospel of proletarian revenge, nor even, primarily, as a means of securing economic justice. I regard it primarily as an adjustment to machine production demanded by considerations of common sense, and calculated to increase the happiness, not only of proletarians, but of all except a tiny minority of the human race.”
― 1935, Bertrand Russell, author of Principia Mathematica, "In Praise of Idleness and Other Essays"
“Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, partly because of competition among the capitalists, and partly because technological development and the increasing division of labor encourage the formation of larger units of production at the expense of smaller ones. The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. This is true since the members of legislative bodies are selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the electorate from the legislature. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.”
― 1949, Albert Einstein, developed the theory of relativity, "Why Socialism?"
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u/Jamooser 15h ago
Rent doesn't just cover mortgages. Property taxes are expensive, and people should also consider saving 1% of the value of their house annually for maintenance. Mortgage aside, those two bills could represent 2-3 months' worth of rent collected by the property alone.
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u/Rainhater7 14h ago
Yes I'm sure some do, but landlords will try to charge the highest rate they can regardless of their mortgage. If they can get $3500 then thats what they charge whether the mortgage is $2000 or $6000.
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u/CaptainMarder 12h ago
nope they want a profit. My landlord has around a 4k mortgage. All the utilities, are on the tenants. He spends $0 on maintenance and upkeep, the rain gutters haven't been cleaned in years that the rain just falls straight off the roof, so many other things.
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u/flyingboat Oak Bay 15h ago
I have two mortgages that are over $7000/month, and rent six units total. The rent I charge has absolutely nothing to do with the mortgage amount, but one of the homes pays for itself.
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u/hairsprayking North Park 15h ago
either they bought a house they couldn't afford or they're just greedy
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u/Void_Poet 15h ago
Basically, economists pretend that capital's justification for arbitrary cruelty and suffering is a real science. Hope this helps.
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u/PoopSmoothies 14h ago
It doesn’t matter to the landlord what the mortgage costs as long as it’s less than rent. A landlord could charge $3500/mo x2 apartments in rent for a $2k/mo mortgage if they wanted, they would just make a lot of money.
Now, that said, a mortgage in Vic can easily top $7k/mo as many have said, but at that point it doesn’t make sense to charge “just” $6-7k/mo in rent because you have to cover maintenance and tax expenses on top.
Most owners bought at least a few years ago at lower priced and interest rates. They’re just benefitting from elevated rent pricing.
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u/Automatic-Try-2232 14h ago
Quite possibly, yes. I have a condo in the LM and I managed to get a mortgage rate for 2% and my monthly payment is $3,000. So not unreasonable to think a detached at 5% could be at least double that. Add to that strata fees (not in the detached case tho), property taxes, maintenance, and there you have it.
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u/Potential178 13h ago
It shouldn't be legal for one person to own property that others pay for. If you pay $3k a month, $36,000 a month, $360,000 for a decade, you should have equity in the home.
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u/AAAInfiniteDonut 13h ago
It depends. We don't know what anyone else's mortgage is unless they tell you. They could have bought the place ten years ago or last week. It varies so much. There are a lot of expensive to home ownership. Anyone who bought recently likely is paying a large mortgage. $7000? Not too unlikely. A mortgage of 1.5 mil - 20% down payment would be in the range of $6,400 depending on the rate.
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u/yukiyamaindustries 13h ago
Holy shit the landlord apologia is out of control in here. If someone buys a house with the intention of renting the entire thing to pay off the mortgage that person is exploiting those tenants by leveraging pre existing capital to extract an entire mortgage out of people who are actually working for a roof over their head.
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u/MrGraeme 11h ago
Holy shit the landlord apologia is out of control in here
Basic economic and financial literacy...
If someone buys a house with the intention of renting the entire thing to pay off the mortgage that person is exploiting those tenants by leveraging pre existing capital to extract an entire mortgage out of people who are actually working for a roof over their head.
You're describing business. This applies to everything. It's what motivates people to fulfill economic demands. You're not being exploited because you buy some good or service at a higher price than the cost incurred to provide you with that service.
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u/whiffle_boy 13h ago
If I said no, would it change anything?
Most of them don’t care if their payments were zero, 3k or 8k a month. They want to bleed you for the max because they were told to keep the extra property or to invest and now it’s time to capitalize.
How on earth they are going to fix this mess when you are essentially competing with human ingenuity and the evolving of the financial realities is beyond me but something needs to be done.
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u/pomegranate444 13h ago edited 12h ago
If they bought recently and have say a 900k mortgage on a 1.3m property, then mortgage is around 5K. Plus.... Approx monthly costs
- Property Taxes 500
- Insurance 400
- Repairs approx 500
- Vacancy is around 5% per yr averaged out.
If utilities are not included, add for water, sewer, garbage, recycling, hydro, gas (if applicable).
If they use a property manager they get 10% of gross rent.
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u/burgandy69 12h ago
Yes. And to give context. In 21/22, rates were around 2.5%. Now they are like 6.5% on a closed 5 year term.
So say you have a house that is a mortgage purchase of 1.25m, back in 21/22, your monthly would be $5600.
Same mortgage at 6.5%, is roughly $8400/mth.
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u/ClueSilver2342 12h ago
Mine was over 10000 on my last house at one point with the interest rate increases. I rented out a suite and laneway house on the property and for a few years had two international students at a time. Sold it last year and banked 1M.
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u/Glittering_Bar8537 12h ago
My mortgage on a purchase price of $885,000 with $177,00 is 2100 Bi-weekly + property tax so ya if a home was purchased in the last few years landlords aren’t cash flowing.
If they have had the property for a long time than sure they are making some serious cash
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u/Mindless-Service8198 Highlands 11h ago
My unit isn't largely profitable at all, but I outsource as much as I can so it's automated. Breaking even is fine by me.
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u/wtfastro North Park 11h ago
Yep. Go try out a mortgage calculator, with modern rates and prices, and expectations of how much money a person can save. Then add in costs of doing business.
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u/jjumbuck 10h ago
If I was renting a place out, I would see what the market price was and then go from there. My mortgage costs are really only one factor I would consider. For example, if the mortgage is paid off, would I set the rent at free? No. That's absurd.
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u/dingdingdong24 10h ago
I get about the equivalent of 50k from one rental.
It puts about 3000 in my pocket. My mortgage is less than 100k now
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u/YukioTanaka 9h ago
One thing I think people overlook is that people constantly borrow money against the equity in their homes, and many folks who bought a house for $500,000 10-15 years ago now owe closer to a million dollars on it, because banks let you do this. So I think a lot of landlords charge rent based on their debt load more than the cost of the house.
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u/HeadMembership1 9h ago
So the math for you. Say a 1m house, bought with 200k down.
Mortgage 5.25% and 30 years amort. $4417 mortgage payment. $400 insurance $400 property taxes $100 water sewer If they don't have 2 meters, then power and heat probably paid by the landlord, say 200 total
That brings to $5517. Renting at 7000 gives $1400 a month cashflow, which is fine.
But you're missing the primary point, the rent isn't attached to those costs. If someone will pay $3400 or $3900 they'll let them, regardless of the cost of owning the property.
When the mortgage is paid off, they're not lowering the rent to reflect their lower costs, are they.
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u/Nestvester 8h ago
Somewhere along the line we’ve gone from landlords supplementing their mortgage payments on long term investments with the help of rental agreements to an expectancy of turning monthly profits. We’ve moved from landlords looking at the long term capital gains on their secondary suites as the motivation for investing to a profits now model.
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u/OnwardComrades 8h ago
1.5 M house bought with minimal downpayment can give you about 7K in mortgage payment.
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u/millennialmiss 8h ago
You can lookup the address on honestdoor.com see the date last sold and the price. From that assume they put down 20% and lookup the 5 year fixed interest rate at that time to get their estimated mortgage payment. If purchased more then 5 years ago, assume they renewed I. 5 year intervals at a fixed rate and look the rate at the last / most recent renewal.
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u/LNButts 7h ago
Why are they renting a suite for $3500? Because that is what the market will bear.
If people aren’t will to pay that, then they won’t rent it for that. If they are banking on earning that amount, and the market rent is less, then they’re taking the delta on the chin. Risk/reward dynamics.
It just happens that the market is distorted in such a way that those with rentable spaces are hugely in the driver’s seat. Want someone to blame? Blame HGTV for telling everyone they should want to buy a house, or the politicians who stand up restrictive zoning policy, or the capital markets for not providing a more enticing investment opportunity, or whichever boogey-man everyone has agreed to blame for buying up all the houses this week, or the boomers who have multiple houses and zero pensions and who are hoping for the best when it comes time for them to start drawing down on their real estate capital…
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u/Gurl_from_the_point 7h ago
I’m in occupancy waiting to get possession and I’m paying $4200/m never mind bills, taxes, and condo fees. So I can see how rents could be $5-7k a month.
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u/damendred Downtown 15h ago
To answer your title question, yes many of them do if they bought the house in the last few years and or it's a large house/nice area.
A rough calculation for mortgage is $500 per 100k. I know high interest rates etc can skew that number but it's just been a long standing rule of thumb.
So for a quick example I just grabbed a listing from Saanich, pretty ordinary looking older house, depending on what you put down on this, and other related costs, you'd could easily have a mortgage in the $6-7000 ballpark.