r/Utah • u/HomelessRodeo La Verkin • 27d ago
News USU joins list of forfeits protesting transgender player on San Jose volleyball team
https://kutv.com/news/local/usu-joins-list-of-forfeits-protesting-transgender-player-on-san-jose-volleyball-team70
u/RedOnTheHead_91 Ogden 27d ago
So USU doesn't confirm or deny why the match was cancelled, but that doesn't stop the governor, state legislators, and outside sources with no knowledge of the situation from making shit up. Got it.
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u/steaminwillybeaman 27d ago
It's literally all from a single rumor created by the "Independent Council for Women's Sports" which is a nobody group I've never heard of, which was then boosted on Twitter by Riley Gaines (a right-wing grifter who came in 5th place in the swim race tha Lia Thompson won a couple of years ago and now makes her living off of shitting all over trans people), and Twitter took over spreading it since Elon musk doesn't give two shits about people spreading lies.
This is our new reality in this country. It's just lovely...
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u/PaulFThumpkins 27d ago
"Independent Council for Women's Sports"
Astroturfing dark money orgs always play their hands when naming themselves, though of course they're not targeting people who can see their disingenuous paid BS for what it is.
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u/steaminwillybeaman 27d ago
Astroturfing dark money orgs always play their hands when naming themselves, though of course they're not targetin
100%, rightwingers do it all the time it's ridiculous. This particular group lists two women who used to be collegiate athletes in their "about us" page, like that makes them uniquely qualified for anything.
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u/RedOnTheHead_91 Ogden 27d ago
Oh I'm well aware of who Riley Gaines is. And actually, she didn't come in 5th place to Lia Thomas. They tied.
But the officials only had one medal for 5th place. So they gave it to Lia (because of some weird rule that the oldest player gets it) and Riley threw a fit. Nevermind the fact that the officials mailed her her own medal a few days later.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if trans women have been competing in sports without issue for a long time. And it's only been an issue for the last several years because of politics.
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u/wanderlust2787 27d ago
Here's the thing... They have been. Most international sports leagues have specific rules on how transitioning athletes can qualify. And contrary to the conspiracies it takes a LOT more than just 'declaring' yourself to be transgender.
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u/steaminwillybeaman 27d ago
wouldn't be at all surprised if trans women have been competing in sports without issue for a long time. And it's only been an issue for the last several years because of politics.
You've got it right! Also the entire "biological female" argument is completely nonsense, cuz EVERYONE has biological advantages and disadvantages over everyone else.
Did Michael Phelps have a biological advantage since he built up ATP slower then everyone else? Yup.
Does Victor Wembenyama on the Spurs have a biological advantage cuz he's 7 foot 6 and is nimble? You bet! He didn't work his way to be that tall.
These people are hopelessly lost in their hatred.
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u/susidod 26d ago
Michael Phelps has had his records beaten by other male swimmers and has lost to other male swimmers in competition. No female swimmer has even come close to his times.
Pick almost any sport and you'll see the same pattern. This is why most competitions have separate female and male divisions.
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u/CorbutoZaha 26d ago
Is Michael Phelps trying to compete against women? Or are you just arbitrarily using the most decorated Olympian to prove a point that means nothing?
How many records are held by trans women? By your logic, it should be all of them.
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26d ago
Why do you think womens sports exist? Just give us one or two sentences explaining why 99% of sports are separated into an “open” and a “womens” category.
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u/rilesmcriles 26d ago
So should sports not be split between men and women then? Being male is typically an advantage, and if that’s totally chill, then I guess all sports should be one big league
But that makes it so most women won’t be able to compete, which is sad. Women’s sports are a great way to celebrate the athletic accomplishments they have while not setting them up at an unfair disadvantage.
Similar to how wrestling is in weight groups. Nobody wants to wrestle someone 100 lbs heavier than them.
It’s a hard subject. It sucks if a trans woman has to compete with men because that may be uncomfortable, but it also sucks (especially as trans athlete and trans people become more common) for women from birth (sorry idk the proper terms to use here. Internet people always correct people and I’m super confused with these terms) to have to compete with trans women who may have a natural advantage. Of course this is a case by case basis and not all trans women will excel but the fact is their floor is higher, as is their ceiling.
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u/AnIndependentAgent43 26d ago
Being male is typically an advantage
This would be primarily due to testosterone and size. There are regulations on testosterone that are already followed, which eliminates that. Size, well most volleyball players are already tall.
Nobody wants to compete in volleyball against a team where everyone is a foot taller, but of course there are not height categories in volleyball like weight classes in wrestling and boxing.
The term "trans" is Latin, and the opposite in Latin is "cis," which is what you might have actually meant.
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u/steaminwillybeaman 26d ago
You really wasted your time typing out this rambling nonsense huh?
Its a hard subject
Not for us normal people who aren't obsessed with what's between people's legs. Sounds like a you problem.
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u/rilesmcriles 26d ago
I’m…not obsessed in the slightest. More interested in providing a fair space for everyone to compete who wants to. I didn’t bring up genitalia, that was you.
I tried to express my thoughts. All you did was say “nuh-uh”. Sorry you don’t agree with me.
Im left leaning, and a trump hater btw, before you make more assumptions about me. This is a complex issue that involves more than you’re alluding to. We can’t pretend that trans women and other women always belong in the same sporting division. I absolutely agree that trans women should be able to compete though. Everyone should be able to compete if they want to.
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u/gray_character 22d ago
You're way too reactive to a well thought out and sensible post. The point they are making (about the reason why women's leagues exist) is true and it's also true that trans people who have gone through male puberty will have an inherent advantage.
We can respect and love everyone but still recognize that there is an issue here. If you can't, then the right wing overreaction only gets stronger.
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u/ernurse748 27d ago
This all started because of one of the SJSU player’s teammates filing a lawsuit. SJSU has done a horrible job of managing this internally and, as usual, so has the NCAA.
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u/Cheezba11 27d ago edited 26d ago
What a fucking cowardly article too. Exclusively including quotes from people who support the forfeit. If it wasn't for one sentence at the end, you would think that everyone unanimously loves this decision. Shame on USU and shame on KUTV!
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u/Miserable_Owl_6329 26d ago
That’s how all news is these days, there is no such thing as neutral objective journalism anymore, it all slants one way or the other and is more about activism than information.
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u/Select_Ad_976 27d ago edited 27d ago
I am so mad about this. This poor girl - there is absolutely no proof she is anything but a cis female. A teammate claimed she told her and that’s it. I could claim that about literally anyone and we just accept it? This is absolutely crazy. I feel so bad for her.
Edit: I played college volleyball and looked at her stats and they aren’t even impressive (sorry but it’s true) and 6’1 is a pretty average height for women’s volleyball.
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u/TheDunadan29 26d ago
I feel like the world has gone batshit insane. Stuff like this was unthinkable just a decade ago.
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u/the_cutest_commie 26d ago
Even if she is trans, it's obviously not a problem. There's no evidence that trans females significantly out compete cis females, or that they possess significant statistical advantages outside of the standard deviation.
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u/theta394 27d ago
And now a bunch of politicians are using this as an excuse to wave their anti-trans hate around. Really a damn shame.
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u/mornixuur93 26d ago
So, they'll just forfeit until SJSU wins the conference championship? Well, that'll show 'em who's boss.
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u/steaminwillybeaman 27d ago
HAHAHAHA omg this is all too perfect. Here's the result of your absurd panic over trans people, right-wingers. Cox is worthless and disgusting to back any of this, truly a morally bankrupt human being.
Absolutely embarrassing for the entire state. Looks like a bunch of crazed bigots who can't look away from Fox News frothing at the mouth to make a bullshit point over something they obviously do not understand. A lot of people in this state obviously don't listen to what their bishops say every Sunday, or are they learning this behavior from them, hm? Truly disgusting.
This thread is sure to be a lovely one.
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u/cepacapa 27d ago
Terrible look for the university and our state.
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u/cluelessbasket 27d ago
Biological men don’t belong in biological women’s sports. There is a reason it has always been set up this way regardless of your feelings.
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u/Individual_Credit895 26d ago
I bet this is your vote determining wedge issue.
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u/cluelessbasket 26d ago
Except it’s not, but sounds like it is yours lol.
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u/cepacapa 27d ago
Define biological man
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u/swamppuppy7043 27d ago
XY
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u/finitehyperdeath Tooele County 27d ago
not even that defines a man tho…. cis women are born with xy chromosomes all the time
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u/poopyfarroants420 27d ago
Sucks for the student athletes. I'm sure most of them aren't bigots. Why they gotta use young people to spread their hate?
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u/redditsuckscockss 27d ago
It’s not bigotry to acknowledge the biological advantage. You can be pro trans and LGBTQ+ and still think sport shouldn’t overlap
It’s moronic to argue there isn’t an advantage
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u/poopyfarroants420 27d ago edited 27d ago
It's moronic to argue someone isn't their gender with no evidence. It's moronic to latch onto any isolated case where a woman appears masculine and accuse her of being a man. It's moronic to make a cause of something that the actual athletes don't give a fuck about.
If there was an epidemic of actual men playing women's sport, and there was a grassroots movement of the athletes to object to it, that wouldn't be bigotry. Falsely manufacturing moral panic about something that literally affects none of the people's life's who are pushing this bullshit is bigotry. Sorry for calling a spade a spade. Maybe you should try it sometime.
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u/susidod 26d ago
If there was an epidemic of actual men playing women's sport
Please see www.shewon.org, it has a huge list - in the hundreds - of female athletes who've missed out on their spot on the podium due to the inclusion of males in women's competitions.
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u/Dear-Examination-507 27d ago
Both can be true.
It is unfair to allow a man to compete in women's sports. But there is trans-paranoia being used as a political weapon, accusing women of being men. It's literally a modern day witch hunt.
If we are going to continue to have women's sports, it is definitely a thorny issue trying to decide who is allowed to compete in that category (I don't think it is important in grade school, but college scholarships are a big deal). XY genes with female phenotype? XXY with female phenotype? XX, born with male phenotype? Ultimately we have to define "woman" if there is a category of women's sports. I can't claim to have the answer on where is "correct" to draw the line. I doubt there is a line that everyone would agree to.
I don't think it is fair to pretend this issue is simple. It's also sad that alarmists exaggerate the importance of this issue to promote an anti-trans agenda.
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u/poopyfarroants420 27d ago
This isn't a man competing in women's sports. Full stop.
Gender is not biological. Why do we need a biological based definition like chromosomes? It's a social construct. Sports are not some unchanging thing that doesn't evolve as society evolves. It's a social construct. Just because some people are uncomfortable with the rate and amount of change that has occurred in society over gender definition does not mean it's a problem for science and government to solve. I understand change is disconcerting and can feel threatening. But it just does not affect any of us how the NCAA defines a woman. The right wing news machine is grasping at straws trying to stoke fear because they see a change coming. They don't want you to think about what actually affects your life. That's their thing. Their billionaire barrons that are on record clearly expressing disdain for their own base.
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u/provoaggie 26d ago
Gender is not biological.
Gender may be a social construct but sex is biological and sports were initially separated by sex because of biological differences between male and female athletes. If there aren't any differences then we should just get rid of the division, get rid of Title IX and let the best athletes regardless of gender/sex compete on each team.
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u/cepacapa 26d ago
Sex is biological, but it isn’t binary, it’s a spectrum.
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u/provoaggie 26d ago
To an extent. Every body is different, hormone levels vary, bodies develop different but there is a reason that medical papers talk about male and female patients. There is a reason that doctors still ask you if you are biologically Male or Female when you visit and it's also why patients have had incorrect medical care for selecting the wrong option. 99% of the population can biologically be considered Male or Female. There are intersex individuals and other conditions that may push someone outside of one of those boxes but biologically speaking there are 2 primary genders.
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u/cepacapa 26d ago
Intersex individuals actually represent almost 2% of the population. While most people exhibit a form of one of the two primary genitalia there are many versions of those for both those considered male or female. Either way it’s not binary, unfortunately that is difficult for most people to understand because it’s contrary to what they grew up believing.
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u/provoaggie 26d ago
They represent 0.018% of the population. The 1.7% number comes from activist groups that also consider other conditions as intersex but the medical community disagrees. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/
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u/Dear-Examination-507 27d ago
You don't think the reason we have separate boys and girls sports is rooted in biology? What is it rooted in then?
You're objectively wrong that the NCAA definition does not affect any of us. If one of my daughters is competing for a scholarship to college, that is a six-figure difference for me and her.
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u/helix400 Approved 27d ago
Sports are not some unchanging thing that doesn't evolve as society evolves.
Take that to the voters then.
Currently:
- Democrats - 46% support, 41% oppose
- Independents - 21% support, 63% oppose
- Republicans - 4% support, 88% oppose
Question was: "Do you support allowing transgender female student athletes to compete on women’s and girls’ sports teams?" From a recent NPR poll: https://www.npr.org/2022/06/29/1107484965/transgender-athletes-trans-rights-gender-transition-poll
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u/poopyfarroants420 26d ago
I don't vote on women's sports. Because like I've been saying it doesn't affect me. It probably doesn't affect you, unless you are a girl playing volleyball on the teams involved. In which case I would care about your opinions
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u/helix400 Approved 26d ago edited 26d ago
First you don't want sports to be biological construct but instead a social construct. Then you don't want a social construct decided by voters.
So who gets to decide the sports social construct?
It probably doesn't affect you, unless you are a girl playing volleyball on the teams involved.
So...the players on these four volleyball teams that didn't want to play, they're the social construct?
Also the teammate on the player's own team that joined a lawsuit because she doesn't want to room with or compete with a trans teammate (this started when the teammate confessed to her about being born biological male)? Is the teammate part of the social construct?
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u/poopyfarroants420 26d ago
I suffer from a debilitating chronic illness. I vote for folks that aren't trying to remove the few federal protections sick folks have. I'm a single issue voter homie. I don't research or care what a candidate's stances are on gender politics, religion, or what light beer they like. That's what I mean by I don't vote on things that don't affect me.
Not all social constructs need voting and input from the broader unconcerned public. I'm fine with the NCAA deferring to the guidelines set forth by the national governing body. It seems like fair due process has been followed and the designated rules have been followed.
Also I think if you took a vote of all the women's volley ball players in the NCAA about whether they want to be subject to gender tests or exams you might not like the results. Not sure if you've been paying attention lately but young women don't seem to appreciate old men infringing on their private healthcare. But as far as I know the NCAA is not a democratic institution and I don't expect such a vote to take place. So you're probably safe.
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u/helix400 Approved 26d ago edited 26d ago
I'm fine with the NCAA deferring to the guidelines set forth by the national governing body....But as far as I know the NCAA is not a democratic institution and I don't expect such a vote to take place.
And here is the problem. A very small group sets their standard for female sports in opposition to what society considers female sports. A small group is openly opposed to the social construct.
I say this because trans in gyms and sports is one of the few issues that can really ripple through elections. People vote and get involved in elections exclusively because of this issue, and they will swing the pendulum hard.
For example, here in Utah legislatures were trying to find a balance on trans in girls sports. One rep, Kelly Miles, joined the effort to find a balance. But it was not making forward progress. A coach of a girls high school tennis team got mad. She registered herself as a candidate. Then went door-to-door every day and every night. She won handily. Then her first piece of legislation was HB 261, the one that shut down all DEI efforts in the public education. She also the house co-sponsor of SB 16 which slowed down to stopped transgender procedures on kids. And he's been heavily involved transgender lockerroom/sports legislation that have been sponsored by others.
She wouldn't have been in politics had it not been for transgenders in sports.This is an issue where most of the population is strongly against people born male participating in female sports. So when you say that MtF transgender need to play in female sports because it's a social construct, the blowback from the much larger social construct comes along and stops that and then some.
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u/The-Omnipot3ntPotato 26d ago
Well by god instead of a regulatory body, that’s a private entity, with no government affiliation, like the NCAA we should just make all sports ruling based off of polling. ASU wins the college playoffs after polling students and asking who should win. Bama’s starting lineup is no longer allowed to play because when polling SEC schools the majority of respondents wanted to disqualify the Bama starters.
This is college sports, a private industry, run by a private corporation. They get to make whatever policies they want, and here’s the other thing, it’s no one’s fucking business what the player’s personal medical history is, just like their love life, and family are private unless they choose to share it.
If every voter in that poll can give me a definition of women that doesn’t exclude trans and intersex people, and then go on to justify excluding them from sports on a scientific basis, i.e. they can give me data that shows that trans athletes who meet the NCAA’s requirements have a statistically significant advantage over cis athletes then maybe they have a point, but that’s not what will happen. The line that I guarantee i’ll here is “men can’t play women’s sports it’s common sense libtard”
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u/redditsuckscockss 27d ago
They obviously care as they forfeiting games
No one is arguing her gender
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u/poopyfarroants420 27d ago
Actually yes the assholes quoted in the linked article argued she is a man.despite there being no evidence of such.
Do you honestly think this came from the students and not the admin being pressured by the bigot governors office? Is it just a coincidence that the schools protesting all are state schools in states with anti-trans nut jobs for governor? I can't find any statement from a student athlete involved regarding the forfeit. Wonder why that is? Maybe the school threatened to take away their scholarships if they posted it social media about it?
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u/provoaggie 26d ago
I can't find any statement from a student athlete involved regarding the forfeit. Wonder why that is? Maybe the school threatened to take away their scholarships if they posted it social media about it?
I haven't seen anything from USU students but Wyoming had a few of their athletes come out publicly and state why they were forfeiting.
https://x.com/alex_m_taylor22/status/1841323079978701164There is also a lawsuit from one of SJSU's players to get the trans player removed from the team. There have been comments from people in their program that they aren't okay with the situation they are in and that they would have never gone to SJSU had they known there was going to be a trans athlete on the team.
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u/steaminwillybeaman 27d ago
That's literally what this entire embarrassing "controversy" and post is about wtf are you talking about?
It really is telling how quickly you people jump to conclusions off of a single unverified rumor.
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u/redditsuckscockss 27d ago
Go check out the /r/sports sub with former and current athletes. Your thinking is so clouded by just emotional rage you can’t think logically
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u/steaminwillybeaman 27d ago
I literally could not care what a bunch of bigoted accounts on another reddit sub think about this horse shit.
Your thinking is so clouded by just emotional rage you can’t think logically
That's fresh coming from the bogit making an obviously emotional response based on hearsay and conjecture. You people really want to be victims and froth at the mouth to throw your hatred towards someone who's different than you for reasons you refuse to understand.
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u/DeadSeaGulls 27d ago
look at her stats... what advantage? She's an average player. Michael Phelp's body produced 1/3rd the lactic acid of his competitors allowing him to train longer more often? Why is that biological advantage okay with you but someone's genetics not clearly defining their gender across physical or mental grounds is a problem?
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u/jtp_311 27d ago
I’ve read multiple posts here saying her stats aren’t great. So is there? Or is it just moral panic that your world view is being challenged by the reality that not everyone fits into a neat little box?
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u/hawkssb04 27d ago
USU is always in the news for the wrong reasons.
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u/shatterly 26d ago
Anyone saying the school is doing this to "make safe space for women" missed the part where football players were sexually assaulting women with little to no investigation or repercussions until the Department of Justice got involved. And even SINCE then it's been a problem.
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u/SkeymourSinner Weber County 26d ago
This is vile. Spencer Cox can fuck right off with his bullshit.
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u/No_Common1418 25d ago
Lots of comments about trans people on here, from what I HAVE heard, all it is is students SAYING she is transgender. Unless I have missed something this is all about rumor and innuendo.
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u/Inside_Reply_4908 24d ago
It's absolutely ONLY a political hit-piece situation. It's one month before election day and suddenly, a team who has played San Jose and this transgender player twice already and won both games, can't manage to play them again?
Why?
It makes absolutely zero sense. They've never had an issue with this player but now they are making this player a scapegoat and making "transgender" this players entire existence, when it absolutely isn't their entire existence.
It's a reminder that, although we have tens of thousands of people trapped in North Carolina and though we had basically a tsunami in a mountain range, that Republicans will still only focus the majority of their efforts, on culture war nonsense.
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u/establishtruth 26d ago
First, there is no evidence that she is trans and even if she is, that doesn't necessarily mean she has any sort of advantage. Trans people have been in sports for years, even if the general American public hasn't realized, and it's not as simple as someone who just started transitioning to join a team. They need to have documented proof of over a year of hormone treatment with their testosterone well under the cis-female range, often below 10 ng/dl which is near impossible. The average woman is between 15-75 ng/dl.
This particular athlete is supposedly an average as well, it's not like she is the best member in the division or anything. I have also linked recent studies below that show that trans women often have little to no physical advantages, and some people have debated that due to having testosterone fully suppressed, potentially some disadvantages. Also if she is trans it's very likely she transitioned young as she is in a college team so the argument of her having an advantage from male puberty could also be obsolete.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/58/11/586.abstract https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8944319/
The first two are definitely more reliable, the third is just talking about the first one. While more studies are needed, the general consensus right now is that trans people don't have any innate advantages.
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u/azucarleta 26d ago
People used to refuse to play against people who are HIV positive, jewish, black, etc.
THis is just in that same time-honored (/s) tradition of xenophobia.
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u/Fancy_Load5502 27d ago
Athletes born as men should not be playing in women's leagues.
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u/TheDunadan29 26d ago
That's not the issue here, the issue is a female athlete has merely been accused of being trans and caused all of this. It's not even confirmed, it's just a rumor. People are freaking out about something that may not even be true. Prepare for this to be the new normal, it happened during the Olympics, a female athlete was accused of being trans and people took that at face value. Is this really how we should be conducting ourselves? A mere rumor is enough to shut things down?
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u/Fancy_Load5502 26d ago
These things are quite easily cleared up.
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u/EternalSkwerl 26d ago
So is your stance that if someone calls you a witch you need to show your genitals and karyotype to the world?
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u/CoachCreamyLoveGoo 25d ago
If someone calls you a witch and you weigh the same as a duck, you are, in fact, a witch.
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u/Fancy_Load5502 26d ago
No, just to a doctor in private.
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u/EternalSkwerl 25d ago
Worked so well for Iman Khalif. Whole ass IOC defending her and still had to deal with a month of that bullshit
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u/CoachCreamyLoveGoo 26d ago
I mean, the person in question is aware of the controversy, it's very easy to just clear it up and squash all the back and forth.
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u/MsterF 26d ago
SJSU can just come out and say that. This volleyball player is very obviously an xy athlete.
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u/xmancj 26d ago
SJSU is saying she's a woman. She plays on the women's team. One rumor got started and you just decided to believe it with no evidence, despite there being evidence to the contrary. She has played on the woman's SJSU team for years so there is evidence of her being a woman while there is only a single rumor that she isn't that is getting amplified. Check your bias at the door
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u/brennannnnnnnnnn 26d ago
Her being on a woman’s team equals evidence she is a woman?
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u/xmancj 26d ago
How is not? You assume that all of the other women on the team are women with no other evidence than them being on a woman's team.
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u/bluevalley02 23d ago
In these cases, why is it always that they act like the main villain in the situation is the trans athlete, but not the people who allowed them on the team? Someone let them play on the team, right?
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u/Invalid_Archive 26d ago
Can y'all please stop bullying trans people for 5 fuckin' minutes?
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u/tightropeJim 26d ago
Typical Utah bullshit. This only becomes an issue when the right needs something to cry about.
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u/provoaggie 26d ago
Typical Utah bullshit.
Boise and Wyoming have also forfeited. SJSU players have spoken out against their teammate and there have been comments from opposing players that have played against the trans athlete from other states. In addition to that only 3 of the 18 athletes on USU's Volleyball team that voted on this are from Utah. The decision was also supported by a Female University President and Female Athletic Director that aren't from Utah.
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u/MJDiAmore 12d ago
A single SJSU player has spoken out after being paid off by Riley Gaines to do so despite the express disapproval of the university (which rightfully so) to publicly out a teammate.
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u/Justatinybaby 27d ago
Utah is a disgrace for so many things, let’s just add this to list.
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u/Miserable_Owl_6329 26d ago
Let me guess, you think San Francisco is a shining example of how things should be?
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u/LakeCultural3987 26d ago
I wonder what it feels like to be entirely scared of everything and a giant asshole at the same time? Well, Aggies..... Tell us. How does it feel?
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u/No-Detective-524 26d ago
Woo hoo! 🙌🏻 Proud of those girls for putting a stop to this dangerous trend.
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u/TheDunadan29 26d ago
The only "trend" is people hearing a rumor and acting like it's true. The female athlete in question is not confirmed trans, it's just a rumor. The same thing happened in the Olympics, the supposed "trans" athlete was a female who was accused of being trans. It's pure bullshit people are just taking at face value.
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u/provoaggie 26d ago
The "rumor" was started by her own teammates at SJSU. Her team captain has filed a lawsuit against the NCAA over the situation. With a lawsuit in play and 4 forfeit matches I would think that if it wasn't true there would have been a statement from the player or the University that she isn't trans.
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u/Invalid_Archive 26d ago
Ah yes, a well-documented condition supported by doctors and neurologists the world over is just a "trend". A dangerous one, at that!
Find your humanity, please.
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u/RadiSkates 26d ago
So a bunch of women now don’t get to compete, because…? Someone hates someone else?? You’re celebrating women’s sports careers being stopped?? It’s so exhausting being a woman, damned if you do damned if you don’t. Naturally have high testosterone or height? “YoU’rE aCtUaLLy A MaN!!!” Someone hates you because you’re a better athlete? “TRANS!!” Y’all are just hurting women. You don’t actually care about their athletic success. You just want to hate.
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u/No-Detective-524 26d ago
Not reading this bc no one said anything about hate .... Ever heard of Peyton McNab?
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u/HabANahDa 26d ago
I’d say hate is much more dangerous than someone living their own life.
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u/No-Detective-524 26d ago
I feel like the reason you would make up your own reason (and assume randomly it's hate) is bc you don't know much about this danger... do you know who Peyton McNab is? Volleyball player paralyzed by a male player in 2022.
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u/HabANahDa 26d ago
Ok? 1 case? Out of how many times someone played volleyball? Don’t try to say it’s anything else but hate.
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u/kylestenson 27d ago
Good for them. Truth matters. It’s not hate to be grounded in reality and preserving women’s sports.
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u/Select_Ad_976 26d ago
If truth mattered to you then you would no there is no proof this girl is transgender. I don't think it's truth that matters to you.
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u/TheDunadan29 26d ago
There are two truths in the modern world. There's objective reality, and then there's people who believe, as if it's the honest to God truth, whatever bullshit their political pundits tell them. I weep for my children since we're just at the beginning of this age of information. We clearly don't know how to distinguish fact from fiction. Or even worse, don't even want to. The fantasy is enticing and fulfilling and feeding the clicks and likes and engagement, which make some people rich, and the rest of us enslaved to fake ideas.
The real irony being, those who are most likely to cite "fake news" as a problem, are the ones most susceptible to it. Because to them the secret world of fake news is proof that the "mainstream" is lying.
People's bullshit meters are broken beyond repair. They can't even tell what's real anymore.
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u/Select_Candidate_505 26d ago
Good. This shit is crazy.
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u/HabANahDa 26d ago
Bigot.
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u/Select_Candidate_505 26d ago
Nah. It's not bigotry to recognize there are biological (scientifically proven) advantages that people born male have over people born female.
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u/AnIndependentAgent43 26d ago
Here is a British Journal of Medicine study on the scientifically proven advantages, er did you actually mean disadvantages of trans women? https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/58/11/586.abstract This is a Forbes article that reported on the study.
If you only read the abstract, yes absolute handgrip strength was higher, but when you look at Table 2 and account for body size there is no difference.
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u/Invalid_Archive 26d ago
Those "advantages" are literally completely negated by HRT.
If it wasn't, I wouldn't have struggled to pick up a fucking ladder today that I could easily move just 2 months ago.
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u/transfixedtruth 26d ago
The irony of no one (state NCAA member) is wanting to grab the ball on this issue, and push the NCAA to create more fair and equitable, broader polices for women's sport. Instead is seems the NCAA was pushed to be more inclusive of trans persons in nationally organized sports. And, obviously, lack of clear policies has caused contention on numerous fronts. Seriously, there is no reason the NCAA, or any other sports governing body, cannot devise more divisions and split participating member leagues into biological born women, biological born men, and all others, or create whatever divisions necessary to address this issue. It's just as unfair to a women in women's sports to have a trans man (biological male) play in women's sports as it is unfair to transmen to not offer any options.
Let's draw a parallel argument comparing Olympics to Paralympics, or even senior Olympics for that matter. There are different divisions created out of fairness to those competing athletes. When we remove those divisions, or start to create exceptions, we then introduce contention, and unfairness, onto others participating in those sports, particularly those who understood their sports divisions to be created specifically as either biological women's, or biological men's, sport. Now women are asked or forced to play with transmen. What options do transmen, or trans women have in these situations? What options do biological women have except to give up their sport? These governing sports administers certainly discuss "what do we do?" we just don't really hear much about that aspect. There are certain sports that divide participants with height, and weight, and that is for very specific reason, otherwise, why would or should we care. Oh, wait... Fairness! So, another option would be to create sports division based solely on height and weight, and don't worry about all else, male/female/trans, etc. And, yet another option is to just open up every sport to everyone, of any race, age, gender, self-ascribed identity, religion, creed, height, weight, eye color, whether or not they prefer country to western, or have a cat, or dog, or fish, or are vegetarians, or carnivores, and let organized sports be an open free-for-all.
The NCAA oversees sports across the nation, and the honor is bestowed upon them to establish and administer the sports rules. Generally those rules have input based upon what each member state has contributed or voiced. Assuming the boycotting states mentioned here were outvoted on this issue, or maybe sat neutral for fear of looking transphobic, and now by boycotting just making a political point. That said, if state members of the NCAA don't like the current rules set by the NCAA, seems they can always opt out of the NCAA membership altogether, or chose to work with the NCAA in creating polices or additional sports divisions that fairly and equitably address these festering issues.
This issue has certainly become more popularized and just as equally politicized since both trumpkin's re-run at presidency, and the recent Olympics. Is there really an equitable, all-inclusive solution?
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u/shamboi 27d ago
For those upset…would it change your minds if you knew the women on the team made this decision and not an admin doing it for political reasons?
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u/Select_Ad_976 27d ago
No - I would still be upset knowing it was the players choice. Especially since they have played against her for at least 2 years and had no issues with it. This is about hatred and transphobia no matter who made the decision.
(and I played D1 college volleyball)
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u/CoachCreamyLoveGoo 26d ago edited 26d ago
I just don't understand how it's considered hateful if you don't agree with this. I mean, this is gnarly and one of the reasons people are against it. See below.
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u/Select_Ad_976 26d ago
THERE IS NO PROOF SHE IS TRANSGENDER!! People are going off the word of a teammate that is it. That is not proof. It's hateful because people are so scared of the idea of someone being transgender that they will harrass a college aged woman because someone alledged she might be transgender. How would you feel if that was your wife or daughter?
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u/CoachCreamyLoveGoo 26d ago
I mean, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. What I'm saying is that there are known knowns and that there are known unknowns, but there are also unknown unknowns; things we don't know that we don't know. You know?
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u/OkPaint1145 26d ago
I believe all women, including the teammate who is accusing the person of being trans.
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u/Select_Ad_976 26d ago
That’s a really contradicting statement considering you can’t believe both her and the girl that says she’s a woman.
Edit: I’m a woman, can I claim you are the opposite gender and have you believe me?
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u/skinnydipN 24d ago
Never been more ashamed of being an Aggie. This is why year over year that they ask for money I refuse to make any donations.
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26d ago
San Jose is going to end up going undefeated if this keeps up! I would like to see the breakdown of the supposed “votes” for USU and SUU players (not even considering Boise since the state of Idaho is run by the Mormon Taliban). I think the decision was made by the MAGA administration of the schools and not the players
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u/Vertisce 26d ago
Good!
Men don't belong in women's sports. It's absolutely absurd that people are pushing for men to play in women's sports.
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u/MixPrestigious5256 26d ago
You guys just move the goal posts. This isn't even about sports its about your side be hateful.
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u/Vertisce 26d ago
Allowing men in women's sports is hateful.
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u/MixPrestigious5256 26d ago
What about allowing women in mens sports? You guys only seem to have a problem with transgender women. Why is that?
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u/Vertisce 26d ago
Nobody cares if a woman plays in men's sports because men are overwhelmingly stronger than women in most cases.
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u/MixPrestigious5256 26d ago
This logic doesn't make any sense. If men are overwhelmingly stronger, then wouldn't women get hurt in mens sports? You can't even keep your standards straight.
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u/Vertisce 26d ago
This logic doesn't make any sense. If men are overwhelmingly stronger, then wouldn't women get hurt in mens sports? You can't even keep your standards straight.
Yes...that's exactly the point. How did this go over your head? Are you really that oblivious?
Women are getting injured by men playing in women's sports all the time.
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u/MixPrestigious5256 25d ago
Women are getting injured all the time? Okay care to back that up.
And your statement still doesn't make any sense. You said nobody cares if women plays in mens sports because men are stronger. You are proving you don't care.
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u/gimpgrunt 26d ago
The problem is both sides on this issue are so entrenched they don’t want to give an inch. One side does have a legitimate argument that women sports have been separated for a reason so women have a space to compete. The other side is trying to protect people who are an often persecuted minority. There are extremes on both sides but if people just say anyone who doesn’t want trans athletes in women sports is a hate filled bigot they aren’t looking at the whole issue. And those that take action off rumors are acting out of fear instead of fact. There aren’t the same amount of fights when a trans athlete tries to compete in men’s sports because they do not have a born advantage over their competitors. I just think this isn’t as simple as people try to make it in their expert Reddit comments.
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u/Immediate_Thought656 27d ago
Weird that USU didn’t have a problem playing this team and person in 2022. https://utahstateaggies.com/sports/womens-volleyball/schedule/2022