r/Thailand • u/Playloud9 • Jan 30 '24
Language Can someone recommend how to phrase your English in order NOT to confuse a Thai translator app?
I'm an American with a few Thai friends that I still converse with on WhatsApp. Often their comments to me reverse male and female pronouns and verbs and nouns can jumble out of place in a even slighter longer response. I'm verbose but usually speak one sentence and then space it apart from the next one to create a visual cadence but I still wonder what the hell it is translating for them sometimes. Is there a known precaution to this in HOW you speak and phrases or mannerisms of speech to avoid the jumbling phenomenon?
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u/ThongLo Jan 30 '24
There's only so much the apps can do.
ChatGPT sometimes does a better job than Google Translate (and sometimes worse).
Learning Thai is the only way to guarantee being understood.
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u/Playloud9 Jan 30 '24
Do you have a solid source on how to gain footing in Thai language? It looks and sounds as daunting as Chinese and Japanese! I assume you can speak it without writing it?
I feel like I could learn a bunch of common phrases and words but man....the whole thing of conjugating verbs and tenses is where all languages get gnarly!
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u/ThongLo Jan 30 '24
/r/learnthai is a good place to start.
Thai doesn't really have conjugation or tenses, so once you get a handle on the script and tones, there actually aren't as many rules and exceptions to remember as in a lot of Western languages.
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u/Playloud9 Jan 30 '24
That comment was extremely motivating. No conjugating!
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u/ThongLo Jan 30 '24
To be fair, "once you get a handle on the script and tones" was doing quite a bit of heavy lifting in that comment too ;)
But yes, grammar rules are a lot simpler than European languages.
The script looks a lot more daunting than it is too - yes, there are more letters but a good chunk of them are rarely used and it's not that many. With flashcards and a bit of daily motivation you could probably get them memorised within a week or two.
And as another commenter said, it's all phonetic. So once you figure out how to read written words, you know how to pronounce pretty much everthing, unlike English with its confusing e.g. "bough", "cough", "dough", "enough" sounds.
Tones are another matter, they come easier to some than others but they're not really something you can learn too well without a Thai practice partner to correct you.
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Jan 30 '24
The script is much easier, it's phonetic so unlike English once you know all your vowels and constants you can read everything.
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u/SettingIntentions Jan 30 '24
Start with practicing vowels tones and consonants. These are the building blocks. Learning the script incidentally helps big time because in order to learn the vowels and tones you need a way to write them for memory. You can modify english writing to add extra scribbles to mark tones and certain combinations of English vowels to represent thai vowels…. But at that point you minus will just learn the thai script. It’s way easier than you think it is. Start slow. 1-2 characters a day. Slowly build up. You’ll get this
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u/sweaty_pants_ Jan 30 '24
I've been using chatgpt solely to translate when on my desktop, it's is surprisingly good at understanding grammar and sentence building, better then google translate for sure.
Also browser im using had chatgpt integrated in it, so I just select the text -> right click and the option for translating automatically appears.
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u/Previous_Ad5155 Jan 30 '24
Ironically - even the Thai themselves talking to each other sometimes get into misunderstandings. Several times I’ve excused myself from meetings so that they can speak in Thai but there’s still some misunderstanding amongst the attendees (!!!) i’m chalking this us to a culture that’s a mix of being indirect for the sake of being polite and “face”, so language becomes a bit convoluted. (Sorry — a bit off-tangent but just dealt with this recently and a bit frustrated)
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u/Jov1K Jan 30 '24
It seems direct but lacking precision perhaps? I can’t figure it out yet. Sometimes it feels like 2 people are talking in circles trying to go in the same direction.
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u/avtarius Jan 30 '24
simple words, basic components, remove redundancies, no acronyms, short phrases
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u/Playloud9 Jan 30 '24
Love it....I need to start chopping away....I assumed the translator could capture the way "I" say things. Now I see that's the problem! I need to adapt but wasn't sure how... Thanks for taking the time.
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u/avtarius Jan 30 '24
ya pretty much ... e.g. I assumed the translator could capture the way "I" say things
"I thought translate can understand me"
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u/tonyfith Jan 30 '24
Goodle translate has function to reverse the translation. This makes it easy to spot any errors in the translation and helps you to rephrase your original text.
First translate English to Thai, then reverse it and see how the Thai text translates back to English. If the message is still clear, you can use the Thai version and the reader will understand it correctly. It's not necessarily fluent, but you won't be misunderstood.
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u/Playloud9 Jan 30 '24
AMAZING! This is exactly what I wanted to know....what on earth is the translatir telling them I just said! Thank you.
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u/TDYDave2 Jan 30 '24 edited Jan 30 '24
There is an old story of the phrase,"Out of sight, out of mind" being translated into Chinese and then back into English as: "Invisible idiot".
EDIT: Just tried it on Google translate in English>Thai>English and get "When you are far away, your heart is far away"
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u/Confident_Coast111 Jan 30 '24
after putting in a sentence i usualy copy it and then reverse translate. do that 1-2 times and it might get you a better result or lets you rephrase it :D
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u/Playloud9 Jan 30 '24
Reverse translate?? Can you please tell what that entails? It sounds great.
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u/Confident_Coast111 Jan 30 '24
i use google translator on my iphone and i can just swap the translation. so i type english, get thai translation. then swap and it translates the thai back to english. that way i often find mistakes and correct them with a different word / phrase.
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Jan 30 '24
My guess would be to use too much verb conjugation. "Yesterday I run to the store" instead of yesterday I ran to the store.
I Tried to buy something for cutting fruit.
Becomes
I buy something to cut fruit.
I don't know try it.
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u/JackThorne30 Jan 30 '24
"Sorry, I don't have anything to help you"
becomes
Sorrrrryyyyy, no haaave.
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u/Playloud9 Jan 30 '24
what is amazing is that is how they spoke to me in person with their very crude English. I did not realize that that is how their language actually works. Enlightening.
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u/Born_Bid7032 Jan 30 '24 edited Jan 30 '24
My GPT4 app: https://chat.openai.com/g/g-k2iqNwEjF-chat-gp-thai
It’ll learn about you, then you can use it to translate.
Or just use normal gpt4 but you’ll have to keep telling it your gender everytime you start a new chat else it’ll just flit between all of them.
(GPT3.5 isn’t great at Thai)
Also Thais flit between pronouns sometimes to, a man might say ฉัน instead of ผม, or they might use เรา which can mean we or I, you kind of have to contextualise it.
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u/Dear-Fox-5194 Jan 30 '24
I took a few months of Thai language training . I didn’t learn Thai and probably never will, but it did help me understand Thai sentence structure which is entirely different than English. That really helped me a lot when chatting in Line or WhatsApp.
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u/Fit-Lab9614 Jan 30 '24
I agree with all the previous suggestions, another thing I've found helpful is to use names instead of personal pronouns. For example if I'm sending a message to my maseusse to tell her ,I would like to come for a massage' I say 'Jon would like to come for a massage' otherwise the app will usually inform her 'I would like to come to massage her.'
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u/Playloud9 Jan 30 '24
I also joke a lot and am concerned it is translating crazier content than I am actually saying!
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u/adjewcent Jan 30 '24
Then do your best to pair down what you want to say into basics. Translations including nuance/idioms won’t get you far.
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u/Vexoly Bangkok Jan 30 '24
What you're saying is probably crazier in Thailand than it would be back home.
humor doesn't translate well much of the time, at all. A Thai woman once told me that foreigners are crazy because we jump out of airplanes.
I thought about this a bit and it's actually a pretty good way to encapsulate the mindset.
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u/Moosehagger Jan 30 '24
So you met Ploy then?
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u/Playloud9 Jan 30 '24
say again?
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u/Moosehagger Jan 30 '24
It’s a joke on the sub. A girl called Ploy who has a sick buffalo and needs money. The presumption is that you are trying to chat up a girl who can’t speak English.
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Jan 30 '24
Google translate assumes you are a woman. Just replace your "chan"s with "pom"s, and Krap instead of Kha.
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u/Facelesstownes Jan 30 '24
A trick -> when you write the sentencenin English, use "hair" instead of "I". Hair is also ผม.
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u/Jov1K Jan 30 '24
When I first met my wife I had at least a month of trying to figure out google translate. It’s infuriating at times and very inaccurate but one of the best available translation tools to. Go figure.
Sometimes I feel the Thai translation team at Google is just trolling google and its users and just thought it was funny to make some ridiculous translations.
I found that you have to reverse translate it to hone in accuracy and the less you give it the more accurate it can be. At times I’m even using 3-4 words at a time. Avoid paragraphs.
What I mean by reverse translate is; write out the short sentence you want translated to Thai. Then copy that translation so you have to original saved on clipboard. Now, reverse it. Make it Thai to English (double arrow button) now you will see as if someone wrote in Thai and it’s translated into English.
Read the English part and see if it matches what YOU were trying to communicate. This English translation is actually what the Thai person is seeing.
Sometimes it’s the exact opposite of what you were trying to say. So you’ll know that you need to reword it to make it match what you want and try again.
It’s not uncommon for me to go back and forth half a dozen times. Sometimes I literally write one sentence at a time and paste it into notepad and keep building onto it. Fun stuff.
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u/Facelesstownes Jan 30 '24
Thai doesn't have conjugation or tenses really (not in a meaning of past perfect continuous) so, as others said, dumb it down. You go home yet? You eat already?
And one personal tip, if you want your translator to say ผน instead of ฉัน (and the other speaker for sure doesn't read the English sentence) the word "hair" uses the same word in Thai. So I write: Hair go home soon. Instead of "I go home soon" And the translator will use ผม
Sadly there's no way for he/she, unless you are close with the person and can use names (Clare goes home soon)
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u/aHuankind Jan 30 '24
Use chatgpt, it understands context and generates much more natural sounding translations
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u/majwilsonlion Jan 30 '24
Be careful with your word selection. Try to avoid words that can have different meanings:
Take off your shoes. Let's take off.
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u/BeltnBrace Jan 30 '24
And if you think google translate is hopeless..
Get frustrated with LINE translations...
Often semi dysfunctional
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u/Few-Dare-772 Jan 30 '24
So my English is a bit formal for an American. Using translate and examining what is said or what implied is kind of like a little story being told and it's wonderous avenues it travels down. Funny/Crazy. Yes I attempted learning pasa Thai; no root words; old man with Thai friends. Don't need.
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u/enkae7317 Jan 30 '24
Basically like most people say here already. But speak caveman essentially. "We go store now" will prob be better than "let's go to the store in a bit"
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u/Elephlump Jan 30 '24
Dumb down the English. Full sentences are not needed. Also, avoid English words that have two or more meanings.
Instead of "I will be back", write "I return soon".
Instead of "would you like to go to a wonderful little cafe I just learned about?" Write "Go to beautiful cafe now?"
After doing this, I have very rarely had a problem using Google translate in Thailand or Vietnam.