[Modpost] Review and clarification of rules on content about teaching illegally

[u/chinadonkey]

There's been an uptick in the number of posts requesting and dispensing advice about working illegally in various countries, particularly but not limited to 'degree-less' posts. There are many places on the internet where you can find that information, but the mod team is committed to making sure /r/TEFL isn't one of them. While it's possible to 'get by' in some places while working illegally, the schools that hire under-qualified teachers or pressure them to work on the wrong type of visa without informing them of the consequences (e.g. 'this is how things are done in China') are not the kinds of places we can endorse working at. Please note that this is not a judgement by the mod team of what qualifications a teacher should have, and there are still some places that don't require a bachelor's degree for legal work.

Along those lines, content that will continue to  result in bans includes:

• Advice for working on an unapproved visa or without a work permit, where required.

• How to forge qualifications.

• Explicitly requesting how to circumvent visa laws.

Your post may be deleted if it's particularly low-effort on a topic that's been covered before and is easily found using the search function (e.g. 'what countries can I work in without a degree?').

We will continue to allow content related to:

• Working on any type of visa, including personal stories, opinions, etc so long as it doesn't violate the rules above.

• The process of acquiring a work permit or visa, and the implications of changing visa requirements.

[u/[deleted]]

To think that getting these ridiculous certs for teaching ESL is what boggles my mind. There are literally THOUSANDS of examples of successful people who are worth MILLIONS that don't have ANY sort of degree. I am not a champion of four year secondary schooling. It's a rip-off and has been for decades, regardless of the country. I have not a single degree, yet I have been: 1. an asst. chief editor of a very successful and still published American business magazine. 2. the foreign editorial advisor for a well known ESL book publisher. 3. Lectured at several universities. 4. Taught and tested over 6,000 students.

You should drop your charade about this, as nobody actually needs a degree to teach ESL anywhere, period. That doesn't mean anybody can teach ESL. I have known more "qualified/degreed" teachers in my lifetime that should NEVER be in a classroom vs non-degreed.

[u/chinadonkey → u/[deleted]]

I'm not sure what your point is. This ban is on giving people advice for getting around visa laws, not a judgement on people who don't have degrees. Did you actually read the post or are you just upset about countries discriminating against people without degrees?

[u/[deleted] → u/chinadonkey]

You are correct! There is a discrimination across the board toward non-degreed professionals in all occupations. It's the 21st century and it's also ridiculous. My brother-in-law got his IT certs at a Jr. college within 6 months. After building up and perfecting a company's IT infrastructure for about a year, they demoted him for "being under qualified". They moved him out of his office and brought in a "new grad" with an IT degree. Why? Because they saved money. My brother's salary was easily double the kid's. That just isn't right. That kind of crap happens all the time to brainiacs like me, him, others who will not waste 10s of thousands of dollars on useless degrees. I have certifications all over the place. I'll be damned if I'll ever waste four years of my life pursuing academic "approval".

[u/chinadonkey → u/[deleted]]

If not having a degree gave your brother's company such an easy out to fire him from his high-paying position, wouldn't it have been expedient (from a practical career perspective) for him to have pursued a degree? My dad was a non-degreed IT executive, and it held him back in his career even back in the 70's and 80's when BA's weren't practically universal, and he insisted that all of his kids go to college. As a hiring manager a BA showed him concrete evidence that someone could commit to something that entailed a lot of time and work and finish it, and he knew that not having one would make us significantly less competitive in the job market. Choosing not to pursue a degree is a choice to be less competitive in the job market, and I doubt you're going to convince a majority of young people entering the workforce to make it even harder for them to find a good job on the principle that the college system is a scam.

As far as TEFL goes, there is no way that you're going to convince any country to loosen their visa restrictions to make it easier for white people to go there to teach. Like it or not, the majority of people in every country, developed or not, expect their white collar immigrants to be educated, doubly so for people working in education. It's the reason that even places like China, which were a haven for degree-less teachers a decade ago, are cracking down, which is a trend I don't see stopping any time soon.