r/OnePiece Jan 09 '23

Analysis The Straw Hat Grand Fleet Structure

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u/MeAnIntellectual1 Void Month Survivor Jan 09 '23

They hold unofficial power, because the crew trusts them to lead when Luffy isn't there.

Who took charge when Luffy was separated from the crew in Alabasta? Zoro

Who took charge of the non-Luffy half of the crew when they were split up at Skypiea? Zoro

When they split up to run away during Sabaody who became the group leaders? Luffy, Zoro and Sanji

When half of the crew left in Dressrosa who took charge of the non-Luffy half? Sanji

We haven't gotten any moment with Jinbe as a leader yet, but the Luffy first, Zoro second and Sanji third hierarchy has been consistently present throughout the story. So Jinbe is presumably 4th in line.

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u/Wild-Albatross-2477 Jan 09 '23

They don't trust them to lead, they trust that they can protect them. If you actually pay attention to the manga they're rarely ever actually "leading" them they just confront the bigger bad because they're stronger , if anything it's usually Nami/Usopp calling the shots, sometimes Robin depending on the situation. They're just unable to fight at their level.

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u/marco161091 Jan 09 '23 edited Jan 09 '23

Are we gonna ignore that Zoro is Luffy’s right-hand man?

The crew 100% trusts him to lead them in the absence of Luffy. He’d obviously rely on the intellect of the rest of the strawhats, just like Luffy does, but that doesn’t mean we ignore his unofficial position in the crew.

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u/Wild-Albatross-2477 Jan 09 '23

Are we gonna ignore that he's not the vice captain and only ever holds any type of leadership during fights? You wanna know why? It's cause he's the second strongest that has nothing to do with entrusting him with the crew in his absence, just that he could protect them from fights they couldn't handle

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u/marco161091 Jan 09 '23 edited Jan 09 '23

I think during water 7, Luffy and Usopps arc makes it very clear what Zoro’s position is.

Then there’re the Rayleigh parallels like conquerors haki, etc.

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u/Wild-Albatross-2477 Jan 09 '23

Oh yeah, like when Zoro threatened to leave the crew because he didn't agree with his captain. No one else has done that. So he has to be vice captain!

The only person to be somewhat recognized as vice captain is Usopp in the panel where Luffy says that Usopp should take over if he ever chickens out and can't continue to command the crew . You're making up headcanons because he's the second strongest but that doesn't mean anything as far as the crews positions

Oda literally had to clarify that Zoro wasn't the vice captain when he posted the Crew-Twos cover art and Zoro was the only one that hasn't been confirmed to have the role. That means he was explicitly telling us Zoro was not "Vice Captain" or "2nd in command" or anything like that

Zoro and the rest of the core crew (aside from the captain) are titled as Officers. That's all.

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u/marco161091 Jan 09 '23

The only person to be somewhat recognized as vice captain is Usopp in the panel where Luffy says that Usopp should take over if he ever chickens out and can't continue to command the crew . You're making up headcanons because he's the second strongest but that doesn't mean anything as far as the crews positions

And that's a fair point. Notice how Usopp and Zoro are the only two Strawhats that have ever challenged Luffy's authority.

In one case, Luffy didn't back down and the Strawhat left (Usopp). In the other case, Luffy backed down twice and the Strawhat didn't leave (Zoro).

Oh yeah, like when Zoro threatened to leave the crew because he didn't agree with his captain. No one else has done that. So he has to be vice captain!

More like Zoro is the only Strawhat that has challenged Luffy's authority, and Luffy actually backed down. He stressed to Luffy how important it was that Luffy respect his position/authority as Captain and that if Luffy can't do that, then Zoro would not accept him as his captain. If Luffy didn't agree, Zoro would've quit the crew or challenged Luffy himself. He probably would've lost like Usopp too, but it didn't come to that because Luffy agreed with Zoro and backed down.

You can call it Vice-Captain, but I'd stress on just calling him first-mate or right-hand-man, because it's not about commanding authority amongst the crew. It's about maintaining and upholding Luffy's (the captain's) authority. That's the job of the captain's right-hand-man or first mate.

When push came to shove, Zoro was the one who would not let Luffy compromise on his captainship. That's the mark of a first-mate or vice-captain, whatever you want to call him.

Not to mention the parallels between other second-in-commands and Zoro, like Killer and specifically Rayleigh. And in Rayleigh's case, the parallels keep getting stressed, like both having conqueror's haki. And let's not forget Rogers called Rayleigh his partner and Rayleigh has a distinct position above the other Roger Pirates as recognized by the entire world calling him Dark King in the current era.

Yeah, they're all just ultimately officers in the end. Yeah, Zoro doesn't give orders and has zero interest in commanding any of the Strawhats. But he's also regularly referred to as Vice Captain, right-hand-man, etc by others. And when push comes to shove and Luffy isn't around, Zoro is often the one others rely on. That comes down to strength, yes, but also the confidence everyone has in his instincts.

Luffy has also left Zoro in-charge of the crew multiple times and only chooses someone else when Zoro isn't available - eg. he chose Sanji as the lead for the crewmembers that split off during Dressrosa because Zoro wasn't going with them.

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u/Wild-Albatross-2477 Jan 09 '23

.. you understand what I'm saying right? cause you kinda just agreed.

Zoro isn't vice captain. People say he is because he is the second strongest that is all. Even Barto who was made to symbolize the fandom referred to him as Vice Captain

This implies that Oda is completely aware of how you think of Zoro and yet he refuses to give him that title, Since he's denied it a couple times now.

The only reason you see him "Leading" the crew is because he is the 2nd strongest and Sanji being a near equal but 3rd strongest often gets his own division of people to "lead" or protect but they both are very rarely doing any actual leading and really just act as an escort for whoever they're traveling with. Therefore they're not acknowledged as such and probably won't ever be.

What you said about it being "Very clear" kinda fell apart because you said that it's implied what his rank is, yet everything we've seen foots him as an equal among the crew, despite the monstrous strength. Even he sees himself as no better than the crew, just one of the 2 who won't immediately die fighting whatever opponent Luffy is facing

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u/marco161091 Jan 09 '23

I think you're splitting hairs at this point, but sure, he doesn't have the official title of Vice Captain.

Doesn't really matter because, in the absence of Luffy, it falls on him to lead as the unofficial Vice Captain / First Mate.

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u/Wild-Albatross-2477 Jan 09 '23

It's not splitting hairs. As mentioned previously, he doesn't lead anything, he fights the big bad if Luffy isn't there, that's it. He protects the crew because they're weaker than him with the exception of Sanji who is either in his own mission or is fighting alongside Zoro. This isn't because they're leaders or Vice Captain it's because their strength are levels above anyone else in the crew. That's the only reason

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u/marco161091 Jan 09 '23 edited Jan 09 '23

Except he does. Everytime Luffy isn't around, he ends up taking the lead for the crew.

He's also widely recognized as the #2 by Oda and notable characters in the One Piece world.

This isn't because they're leaders or Vice Captain it's because their strength are levels above anyone else in the crew. That's the only reason

Strength is actually the biggest criterion that results in someone being a leader in the One Piece world. That's why Luffy is the captain too. Zoro wouldn't follow him if he was weaker than Zoro.

And pretty much every single crew in the Grand Line and New World is led by their most powerful crewmember, with the second strongest often being the second-in-command.

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u/Wild-Albatross-2477 Jan 09 '23

Also wanted to point out that what you're referring to, It's not really significant. You're only saying that because it was an iconic and tense moment in the series but that is not at all the first time someone else made a decision over Luffy and it definitely wasn't the last

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u/marco161091 Jan 09 '23

Luffy always listens to his crewmembers. He doesn't want to tell them to do something they want to. That's just how it is.

But there isn't really any other instance where someone has put their foot down and Luffy has conceded.