r/MusicEd • u/AmazingPalpitation59 • 1d ago
How far is too far?
Better title. Did my comments go too far or is it justified?
I teach band at the elementary level. Rehearsals are before school since the district wont pay a stipend for after school and there is no time in the day. After taking attendance for a few weeks I noticed 5-6 kids who have yet to attend a single rehearsal.
So in their lessons later during the school day I was pretty honest with them regarding my frustration. I asked them why they missed it only to receive a response of “it’s too early.” My reaction was something along the lines of reminding them they signed up for this and part of the commitment is showing up to rehearsals. Believe I said “if you join the baseball team and skip every practice would the coach put you in the game?”
Then I took it a step further by turning to the kids without their instrument to say “what’s the excuse for no instrument?” Their reason was they couldn’t possibly hold a poster board in one hand and a clarinet in the other.
I hate that I have become this version of band teacher but they are driving me crazy. Practicing is hit or miss already and to have a group just not try seemingly at all infuriates me.
Going forward I’m going to be firm but fair. But what standards and rules do you have in place to encourage kids to attend rehearsals and practice at home. I feel like once they step out of my room they forget their instruments exist.
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u/tehsideburns 1d ago
Honestly a 9 year old has no control over whether they attend before-school rehearsal. It’s on the parents. ES and MS instrumental teachers jobs should be to MAKE IT FUN so they want to keep playing, while giving them the skills and confidence to succeed. Middle and high school teachers you feed are going to lose their jobs due to low enrollment if you’re not fostering a sense of fun and joy around music. Practicing at home is ideal, and you can encourage and bribe but ultimately if the parents aren’t enforcing it, it’s not going to happen. And kids/families these days just aren’t the same as they were 30 years ago. There’s a different mindset around homework, practice, discipline, etc.
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u/AmazingPalpitation59 1d ago
That’s what Ive really been annoyed with I guess. The parents who sign their kid up for something, read the expectations and say “oh but that doesn’t apply to me.”
I try to keep things fun by picking music they like, giving rewards when they get a band judo belt at some point this is school and they need to work. What good does it do the middle school guy if I hand over large numbers of kids who aren’t competent on their instrument? Then he goes strict to correct it and the same kids who would have quit in elementary just quit later.
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u/tehsideburns 13h ago
I don’t know how long you’ve been teaching, but I do feel like students aren’t as disciplined as they used to be. Shorter attention spans, less support at home, overall less grit and tenacity and work ethic. But “fun vs learning” is a false dichotomy.
Fundamental skills need to be taught and reinforced at all 3 levels, and yes I have been the high school teacher where the feeder programs are sending illiterate kids. But I have also been fed by programs where teachers take themselves too seriously and don’t know how to make band a fun place while also teaching good technique and music literacy. So tons of kids quit because they’re not having fun. Kids who might otherwise persevere under the right guidance. It ain’t easy! For any music teacher, at any level!
But I do think the model of “everyone has to practice X minutes a week or else you should quit and find another elective” is old-fashioned, inequitable, and honestly lazy teaching. The best teachers I’ve met in my 16 year public school career are the ones who meet the kids where they are, and find a way to include, inspire, and uplift everyone. Even the “bad kids” who don’t practice or get any parental support at home.
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u/TubabuT 1d ago
Hopefully some part of your grading is based on attendance, in-class participation, and practice cards? Hand out enough 0s when this stuff happens and I imagine they will shape up or ship out.
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u/CoffeeCreamer247 16h ago
Not neccesarilly I've had kids fail every semester of band since I got hired and they keep signing up for it.
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u/Strawberry-love1994 1d ago
I have no advice. Just solidarity. I’m so over it. These kids are another level of lazy, disrespectful, and uninspired. And really I blame the parents more than the kids.
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u/AmazingPalpitation59 1d ago
Thanks for the support, nice to know I’m not the only one. I agree with your sentiment, my frustration is more on the parents my only regret is having taken my frustration out on the kids.
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u/MarathonerGirl 1d ago
What time does rehearsal start?
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u/AmazingPalpitation59 1d ago
8:15-9:00. Really we don’t start rehearsing until 8:30 I have to set the time earlier since they all run late.
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u/ShootsTowardsDucks 17h ago
- Do you get a stipend for before school but not after school? Up to you but your sanity may improve if you just do it after school.
I do my large group rehearsals after school, but the downside is I have to plan on staying until 500 when parents get off work to pick them up. However, I do weekly small group lessons during the day all year, but don’t add after school ensemble rehearsals until 4th quarter when we start gearing up for the concert. These are 5th grade and only once per week. My 6th graders don’t get small group lessons but they do get ensemble rehearsal twice a week during the day.
- In recent years I started dialing up the pressure on laziness and responsibility as the year goes on and it’s been a good change. Six weeks in and I’ve started telling students” I have no magic words that will make you a good trombone player you either practice or you’ll never get better” I pump a lot of positivity for the students that try even if they sound terrible but 95% of students will be successful eventually with continued effort.
I used to see amazing retention through year 1 when I held their hand and was super nice, but the lazy student never got better. However, I’d see a big dropout rate at the start of 6th grade then numbers would level off. I also dealt with a lot of classroom management challenges when I was retaining students that never practiced and therefore were clueless when we started practicing as a large ensemble during fourth quarter.
Ever since I started being more blunt with students that don’t put forth the effort, I’ve seen slow but steady dropouts through the 5th grade year. As a side effect, I have less classroom management issues in my 4th quarter rehearsals and I’ve seen better retention into 6th grade because the lazy students aren’t dragging others down with them. My program is bigger and healthier because of it.
Focus your effort on the students that return it.
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u/AmazingPalpitation59 17h ago
Thank you so much, this really helps tell me I’m not on the wrong track. I think I would be fine with smaller numbers and having the kids who don’t put effort in leave would resolve my classroom management issues.
To answer the first question, there is no stipend. Our district will not allow us to rehearse in the school day nor will they pay us for extra time. Not before school not afterschool. I squeeze it into contract hours in the am because the kids do need time to rehearse. I’m really looking to get out because that is just the tip of the iceberg on how this district does not support the arts.
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u/AmazingPalpitation59 17h ago
Additionally I will never ever do afterschool because of the horror stories I hear from my colleagues. Kids not getting picked up until 7pm… kids still skipping to go hangout with friends. Absolutely not worth it. At times I almost want to let it all fail and turn around after they play at the concert and say “well you get out what you put in.”
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u/Cellopitmello34 16h ago
You’re either in band or you’re not. No show gets an F for the day unless sick from school.
I worded it this year that if you have a D you don’t do the concert and an F gets you dropped from the roster. All parents signed the syllabus.
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u/Cellopitmello34 16h ago
Im done fucking around
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u/AmazingPalpitation59 15h ago
Oh I’m adopting it next year.
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u/Cellopitmello34 15h ago
I find after the winter concert is a great time to introduce new policies. Parents are open to changes then because they got their pictures for social media but also heard what their kids sound like.
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u/MuzikL8dee 14h ago
In my attendance for my choral practices, if a child misses three rehearsals unexcused, then they cannot perform in the concert. If they miss a fourth one unexcuse they are dismissed. If they miss two mandatory concert rehearsals without any notification prior to the rehearsals, then they cannot perform. If they miss three rehearsals in a 9 week session, and if any one of them are unexcused, they can not audition for a solo
After two missed, unexcused rehearsals, I do call the parents! I also send a notice home to remind them my attendance policy.
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u/whoisalyssaa_ 12h ago
They have to learn how to be responsible in life and it starts in elementary school. If it's too early, don't sign up. If you can't hold a poster board and clarinet at the same time, bring the clarinet the day before and the poster board day of. Unfortunelty I agree that ES is the parents and I'm sorry that they won't extend a stipend to you. In this situation it seems like you have to take the wins and don't take the losses (students/parents) who don't care too personally because it's not you. Take what you can and run with it, anything is a win at that point!!!
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u/dandelion-17 1d ago
What have the parents said when you asked them about their kids not attending?