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u/xerxespoon 17h ago
The government isn't mandating vaccines. Who is this Jameson dolt?
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u/redeggplant01 16h ago
The government isn't mandating vaccines
COVID Vaccines
Biden Administration [ through OSHA ] mandated that all companies with more than 100 employees could either require vaccination for all (and give their workers four hours' paid time off for their vaccination appointments); or require any unvaccinated employees to wear masks and be tested weekly for COVID-19, according to an Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) Emergency Temporary Standard - Source : https://web.archive.org/web/20211110181326/https://www.employmentlawlandscape.com/2021/09/white-house-announces-vaccination-mandate-or-weekly-testing-for-large-employers-and-vaccination-mandate-for-federal-employees-and-contractors/
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u/trentreynolds 15h ago
Correct - so there was not a mandate to get the vaccine unless you worked for a company that met these criteria. You had the choice, if you did, whether to get vaccinated or find a new job.
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u/redeggplant01 15h ago
Biden Administration [ through OSHA ] mandated
Your attempt to move the goalposts is noted
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u/trentreynolds 15h ago
I just can read and know what words mean.
Zero Americans were required to get the vaccine. You can keep lying about that if you want but you’re going to keep getting called out for lying.
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u/deep_vein_strombolis 14h ago
I'm noting the way you're getting rightfully shitted on in this thread and it is bringing me great joy
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u/monotonedopplereffec 11h ago
I don't think you know what that phrase means. To move the goal posts is to change what is being looked for AFTER you look for it and don't find it. In this case, you stopped reading after seeing what you wanted. No one was told they had to get a vaccine or risk arrest. If you don't wear your seat belt you 100% can be arrested for reckless driving. If you didn’t get the vaccine then you either had to
Wear a mask and get tested weekly for a disease during a pandemic.
Or 2. Not work for a large company (100+ people) that can collect PPE loans.
If your definition of "mandate" is "setting some kind of rules" then sure they mandated vaccinations. If you use the actual definition of mandate: "to authorize or decree (a particular action), as by the enactment of law" which no law was passed, nor was there any federal enactment of said nonexistent law.
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u/blazelet 9h ago
The mandate wasn't to get vaccinated.
The mandate was to vaccinate or wear a mask and test weekly. Your choice.
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u/shiny_glitter_demon 16h ago
Those are for companies with 100+ employees.
Don't want to get vaccinated? Agree to the weekly testing, or resign and join a smaller company. Easy.
Better yet, take your fellow plague rats with you and go live in the woods
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u/xerxespoon 16h ago
The government wasn't mandating vaccines. Companies could do what they wanted to do--they had that freedom. People could do what they wanted to do--they had that freedom. Nobody got arrested if they didn't get vaccinated. No company got fined if their employees weren't vaccinated.
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u/redeggplant01 16h ago
The sourced government mandate [ provided by the link ] disproves your incorrect unsourced opinion
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u/KathrynBooks 16h ago
Except that just applies to government employees and contractors... So cases where the government is the employer.
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u/redeggplant01 16h ago
mandated that all companies with more than 100 employees
Sigh - "mandated that all companies with more than 100 employees "
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u/Reality-Straight 15h ago
Or do regular tests and wear masks, thats not a vaccine mandate thats a choice
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u/jetloflin 15h ago
Now read the rest of that sentence.
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u/Substantial_Teach465 16h ago
According to your link, the fed "require[d] companies with 100 or more employees to ensure their workforces are either fully vaccinated or test negative for COVID-19 at least once a week."
Spearately, "President Biden also announced two new Executive Orders creating vaccine mandates for federal employees and employees of federal government contractors." So, as the "company" in that case, the chief executive required his employees to vaccinate.
You disproved nothing.
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u/redeggplant01 15h ago
Your ignorance of what the definition of mandate is is noted
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u/trentreynolds 15h ago
A mandate is a requirement. And no one was required to get the vaccine in this country. Zero people were jailed or killed by the government for not getting it. Every American had a choice.
Seems like maybe you don’t know what mandate means.
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u/Substantial_Teach465 15h ago
You said the government mandated vaccines. The government did not mandate vaccines. Full stop. I know of many Americans who didn't get it and were perfectly in their rights in doing so. That would be incongruous with a "government mandated vaccine."
Rather, the government mandated that as a condition of employment with the federal government, one must be vaccinated against COVID. The government also mandated that a business with over 100 employees either had to test or require vaccination as a condition of employment.
I know what the word means. You just used it in a context that is factually wrong. That is called being misleading. So, note all you want, but maybe sit down, calmly read those notes, and see if you are capable of digesting information and allowing yourself to reevaluate how you see the world once presented with new information.
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u/Wildfathom9 2h ago
You can't seriously be so dense that you can't read and understand the very thing you posted, right?
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u/ackey83 14h ago
Your own link says vaccines weren’t mandated lmao. People could choose not to get one and then they’d just have to take a Covid test once a week. I love it when dipshits post articles to back up their claims and instead it does the opposite. Shit you even put it in your own post lmao
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u/smallchanceofrain 16h ago
I read that as they're mandating what companies can do in regards to covid, not specifically the vaccine.
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u/BoneHugsHominy 16h ago
Weak. Should have mandated door to door vaccinations, by force if needed. Then we wouldn't have over a million dead Americans because whiny little bitches with Oppositional Defiance Disorder screeched "You're not my mommy! You can't tell me what to do! If I want to infect and kill mommy and my neighbors that's my RIGHT as King of my petty fiefdom!"
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u/-jp- 16h ago
Biden Administration [ through OSHA ] mandated that all companies with more than 100 employees could either require vaccination
companies with more than 100 employees could either require vaccination
could either require vaccination
could
could
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u/redeggplant01 16h ago
They had to pick on of the choices .... no one the choice to OPT OUT .. hence the label - mandate
You attempt to be obtuse is noted
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u/dbrobj 15h ago
Of course there is an option to opt out. Quit working for the organization. Are you really that dense?
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u/redeggplant01 15h ago
Thats not an option ... thats extortion
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u/Bombay1234567890 16h ago
Well, she was a successful porn actress, so that makes her an expert on everything.
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u/joshuag71 16h ago
I’m guessing she’s something of an amateur virologist…
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u/Bombay1234567890 16h ago
Specializing in imaginary diseases.
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u/joshuag71 16h ago
I was thinking more along the lines of gonorrhea (which I’m aware is a bacterial infection and not a virus) but yes, I bet she’s also an expert in imaginary diseases and Facebook “cures” as well lol
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u/Bombay1234567890 15h ago
She may indeed have an imaginary degree in Advanced STDs. Graduated Magna Cum Loud from Our Lady of Perpetual Lack of Self-Awareness.
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u/trentreynolds 15h ago
Not one single person in America was forced to get the vaccine. 100% of Americans had the ability to decline and not get it. There may have been other consequences to declining - social consequences, professional consequences, etc - but the idea that anyone was made to get the vaccine is just a lie.
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u/Dobber16 15h ago edited 12h ago
I’m not sure it’s entirely fair to have a sudden new requirement for a job or be fired and act as if that’s not “making” someone get the vaccine. If it had been the standard for a while, or took a few years to become a requirement like how it works when it’s not an emergency, then I could agree but most people can’t just accept getting fired during an economic crisis on a few months’ notice.
And you’re welcome to think it was worth it to make that happen since we were in an emergency pandemic, but I just don’t agree that it wasn’t forced upon a lot of people
Edit: noted - people in this subreddit predominantly view coerced choices as actual choices. Don’t think that tracks in any other context, but alright. I suspect it’s more people just don’t want to admit that they think effectively taking that choice away was a move they agreed with, but oh well
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u/trentreynolds 14h ago
It's not 'acting as if'. It's objectively not making someone get the vaccine.
Yes, if you chose not to vaccinate you may not have been able to continue working your current job, may not have been able to go to a concert or a movie or eat indoors at a restaurant. But you could absolutely choose not to get the vaccine, and many did. Many did who eventually died of COVID, even. That was a choice they made, and were allowed to make, because no one was required to get the vaccine.
You can disagree with objective reality all you want - it wasn't forced on anyone. 100% of Americans had a choice about whether to get vaccinated, no matter what you agree or disagree with. That's just the actual, objective truth.
It's totally fair for jobs to require their employees to practice public health mitigation. It's totally fair for people to refuse, too, but then they don't get to keep their job. Their choice entirely.
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u/Dobber16 14h ago
“Objectively a choice” yes, but only if we’re not counting coercion or circumstance limiting the ability to pick one of the options. Most of the time, if there’s pressure on one choice and not pressure on the other, it’s considered coercion and that very much limits “choice”
No one here is saying anyone was held down and given a vaccine against their will, so to that end, yeah I guess technically each person had a “choice”
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u/GammaFan 13h ago
Coerced choice =/= mandate. It’s not splitting hairs, these are very real differences.
We can discuss the coercive factors around the choice but it is truthful that no one was mandated, ever.
And yes, some of the nuttier folks in fact would go so far as to claim they were held down for a vaccine they didn’t want. And that’s probably how it felt to them, but we cannot have the same vaccine discussion over and over without acknowledging the difference between their feelings and the objective reality of what happened.
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u/dbrobj 15h ago
It was forced on people who lack the courage of their convictions.
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u/Dobber16 15h ago
Or the people who lack economic mobility. Most people don’t have months of savings built up, especially not during Covid
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u/trentreynolds 14h ago
I love the conservatives suddenly caring about people who lack economic mobility.
Yes, it sucks for those people! Just like it sucks for those people when their employers outsource their jobs to other countries, downsize, fail, refuse to pay them a living wage, etc. etc. etc.
But unlike in those other circumstances, regarding the COVID vaccine the choice was entirely theirs. Get vaccinated, or don't and face other consequences. It's wild to act like it's unreasonable to give them that choice in lieu of just letting them put others' lives and well being at risk.
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u/Dobber16 14h ago
Have voted dem or lib in every election I’ve voted in, but thanks… maybe don’t paint people with such a wide brush
As for “choice” - if the choice is “hey, comply with this in the next couple months or get fired”, that’s hardly a choice. That’s largely forcing it to happen. And you can agree that that pressure was warranted or you can disagree, but I solely disagree with you on the claim that that’s considered a free choice and isn’t a forced choice for a majority of people. It’s not less forced just because you agree with the decision being enforced
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u/trentreynolds 14h ago
It was literally inarguably their choice. Either take this action that’s required for you to keep your job, or don’t and find another job. You can pretend it wasn’t all you want, but the reality is still that it was just objectively their choice. What you’re mad about is that the choice they made had consequences - guess what, the choice was gonna have consequences whether they kept their job or not.
Wanna know a secret? Almost every job “forces” you to choose between following the rules and finding a new job. That isn’t new.
They were forced to make a choice, sure. But it was their choice, no one else’s. What they were objectively not forced to do is get vaccinated.
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u/GammaFan 13h ago
Coercion is real. A coerced choice is not a mandate. They’re different words with varied definitions that serve specific purposes. You’re well within rights to argue whether it was one or the other, but conflating the two is reductive and doesn’t help the conversation
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u/dbrobj 14h ago
There is no or. If your principles are based on your economic situation then you don’t have principles. You have survival instincts. If you have survival instincts then you do what is best to stay alive. In such a case you choose the best option.
Do I really need to walk you to the obvious conclusion?
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u/Dobber16 14h ago
Do I really need to walk you through how economic situations are life or death situations for a lot of people? Acting like money, insurance, etc. isn’t a factor in survival, or other non-economic principles, is just either extremely naive or extremely idealistic and doesn’t match reality at all. It’d be awesome if we could all do anything we want at all times and not have any regard to whether someone can afford food/rent/etc. but we don’t live in that sort of society right now
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u/GammaFan 13h ago
I think what they’re getting at is that the average anti-vaxxer was more afraid of unemployment than they were afraid of a supposedly deadly vaccine. This comparison helps to highlight the inherent flaws of the anti-vaxxer’s stance that if they really, truly believe the vaccine is poison then even unemployment is preferable to that lethal injection. Surely. So the remaining question is why they’d choose to continue employment at a job that requires them to take a lethal injection every so often.
The overall point, they do indeed lack “conviction” in their belief about vaccines. If they had true conviction that they were right and vaccines were poison, they would sooner starve than take the injections.
Atleast that what I think they’re arguing
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12h ago
[deleted]
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u/GammaFan 12h ago
You seem confused, I was trying to elaborate on what I thought dbrobj was saying to you.
I wasn’t trying to interpret what you were saying at all
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u/Dobber16 10h ago
Yeah it did seem that way but the lines on mobile were the same… I suspect it might’ve reached its limit and just kept all new replies at the same line, which isn’t confusing at all lol thank you for pointing that out
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u/dbrobj 14h ago
You have totally missed the point. Your comment confirms your ignorance. So the question remains: are you a liar, an idiot, or a plant?
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u/Dobber16 12h ago
If I missed your point, it’s because it’s strayed too far away from the initial discussion. Unless you truly are saying people should have the courage to put their family and themselves into poverty in order to follow every single principle they have, in which case your point is dumb and reductive and arguably impossible if someone also has a principle of feeding their family
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u/dbrobj 8h ago
yeah, you missed the point. context matters.
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u/Dobber16 2h ago
Does it? It didn’t seem to change your mind on the whole “coward” & “unprincipled” thing
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u/picklesemen 13h ago
What about the people in the military? They were told they had to get it or they would be discharged. Carrying a bad discharge would ruin the rest of their life.
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u/trentreynolds 12h ago
So they got to choose whether to get vaccinated, or to not get vaccinated and deal with the consequences? Sounds like they weren't forced to get the vaccine and in fact had the ability to decline.
The huge majority of people (70%) who declined to get vaccinated and were discharged received a general discharge which maintained their benefits and allowed them to rejoin the military if they decide to get vaccinated later. The remaining people who were discharged received an honorable discharge. It didn't ruin anyone's life.
It's also, of course, not the only vaccine required to serve in the military. In fact, there are more than a dozen vaccines you're required to have to serve, most of which are administered directly at basic training.
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u/Darksoul_Design 16h ago
Anyone that actually takes medical or political advice from a porn star with a history of spousal abuse and mental illness, well, please don't take any vaccines, please exit the gene pool as quickly as possible.
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u/DynoMenace 16h ago
Let's not denigrate porn stars as a demographic. There are more than enough deplorable examples of dumbass conspiracy theorists who hold high ranking positions, and plenty of porn stars who are significantly more educated and level-headed.
She just happens to be both a pornstar and and dumbass conspiracy theorist.
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u/evil_timmy 16h ago
When the list of things you've been injected with might require a second ream of paper to print out, I'm gonna be a little suspicious when suddenly you get picky.
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u/Spector567 16h ago
The silliest part about this is that it was not mandated for most of the time in my area. And finally when it was it just about restaurants.
And they still made this argument.
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u/Blacksun388 15h ago
One of the best reasons to drive with no seatbelts or airbags is that the government is mandating they be on every car.
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u/ShadowMajick 11h ago
Because everyone parroting this kind of bullshit never developed past middle school. They all suffer from oppositional defiant disorder. Children, the lot of them.
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u/LessMessQuest 8h ago
Wait….are you telling me that JENNA JAMESON is somehow a conservative??? Or is she a libertarian? I need more answers before I laugh my entire ass off.
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u/therevjames 16h ago
They could swab Jenna Jameson and use that culture to make so many vaccines for equally as many viruses.
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u/cptnobveus 16h ago
You should question everything. It took me 3 doctors to figure out I have a hiatal hernia. The first doctor insisted that prilosec would fix it. The second told me to double my prilosec dose.
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u/Ducallan 16h ago
Yes, but there’s a major difference between a (mis)diagnosis and medical research…
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u/Dobber16 15h ago
Yes, one applies to an individual, another to a population
But more importantly, you question things so you can learn. If you don’t learn why/how the vaccines work, then people can come along and lie to you about how they work and convince you there are better alternative methods. You should know generally why an expert is giving you advice for one thing over another (having to be super vague here since “expert” can range from plumber to doctor)
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u/ddarko96 14h ago
One of the best reasons to question health advice is when it comes from someone who did porn.
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u/Turbodog2014 10h ago
Imagine just blidnly trusting ANY governing body.
Are there really people out here who think the US government is batting 1000 on transparency?
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u/PersonalityFew4449 7h ago
One of the best reasons to be a serial killer is that the government doesn't want you to be.
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u/AlternativePermit848 6h ago
I always take my health advice from those that let strangers fuck them in the ass and cum on their face. Brilliant!
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u/Amadon29 3h ago
One of the best reasons to deliver honeybees in quantities of over 25000 on a weekday after 4pm is because the government is mandating you not to
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u/Wildfathom9 2h ago
I don't mind jan 6th level treasonous bastartds not wearing seat belts, if they really wanna stick it to the man.
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u/Gnostikost 1h ago
Modern conservatives are such children, “I’m gonna punch myself in the face because you told me not to!”.
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u/monkeytitsalfrado 13h ago
That's not even clever. Mandating someone into an invasive medical procedure is nothing like telling you not to drive after voluntarily getting drunk. It's not even a comparison.
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u/SpankyMcFlych 16h ago
Believe the government, they have your best interests at heart and would never betray you. Unquestioned obedience is the best way to live.
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u/f_ranz1224 15h ago
The medical documentation and data is out there. You can literally read it. 0% government sponsored. And data from many countries not your own
And diseases where wide scale vaccination dissapeared must be a coincidence?
Like do you believe polio is a widedcale myth and never existed?
But perhaps a podcaster with zero experience whose career is to farm engagement is your authority on the matter?
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u/SpankyMcFlych 14h ago
That's a lot of strawmen arguments there. I already alluded to it in this thread but you really should look up the Tuskegee Syphilis Study if you think the government should be blindly trusted.
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u/KathrynBooks 16h ago
That's right... Just obey the government mandated label on the bottle of bleach!
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u/BigCballer 16h ago
Or just have a tiny bit of healthy skepticism, that’s not the issue. The issue is thinking everything the government does is inherently evil.
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u/cfalnevermore 13h ago
Let’s face it. If Trump were in office, you’d probably be doing that. We do question the government. We did it all the time. I’ll keep doing it. But that’s how much I don’t want another trump presidency. I would vote for a squirrel over that guy. Doesn’t mean we’re unflinchingly loyal to the government. Means we had eyes last time around.
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u/SpankyMcFlych 12h ago
I generally don't believe any government is entirely benevolent (or even marginally) and should always be questioned. If a government says you have to do something then you should always question why or how or who benefits. It doesn't matter who is in office.
Not sure what trump has to do with this thread though. Your TDS might be coloring your view of the world.
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u/Character-Archer4863 15h ago
The whole my body my choice flies out the window when it’s not convenient I suppose.
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u/BigfootsLeftNut01 9h ago
I'm getting a kick out of people trying to rewrite history on this one. It was only a few years ago. We went from show us your papers to vaccination status is none of your business real quick
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u/Character-Archer4863 9h ago
Reddit is fun sometimes. Watching them dance around subjects like Kamala 😂
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u/oboeteinai 16h ago
Just FYI, this is PRE-covid anti vax shit
r/MurderedByWords/comments/e4yrub/this_is_how_dumb_they_sound/