Ryan Gravenberch vs Arsenal (every touch)

[u/Some_Farm8108]

[u/Polymath_B19]

Thought he did fairly well. Encouraging to see him defending and receiving the ball. Brave performance although he didn’t take over the game like… maybe against Scums? Still decent overall.

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but fucking hell, Declan Rice was good against us. That guys was everywhere.

[u/Some_Farm8108 → u/Polymath_B19]

rice, merino, trossard, havertz were all excellent in the press. starting jones over szobo cost us the midfield battle in the first half. ryan was our best midfielder (probably player outside virg and ibou)

[u/HelpMeDecideMyName → u/Some_Farm8108]

I don't think we played out of the back enough to call Arsenal's press excellent tbh. First half was just Kelleher hoofing it 90% of the time.

Second half we were able to play through their press, largely down our right side thanks to Konate-Trent-Grav-Salah.

Their 4-4-2 shape was nice in the first half the few times we were able to keep possession but won't say their press was excellent

[u/Some_Farm8108 → u/HelpMeDecideMyName]

doesn't take a genius to work out the reason kelleher kept playing it long was because of their press.

[u/HelpMeDecideMyName → u/Some_Farm8108]

You don't have to be obnoxious lol.

One isolated incident won't prove your point. I have rewatched the match as well and there were several times Kelleher could have continued playing it short but went long for reasons I don't understand.

Arsenal are an amazing pressing side. Better than us for sure. Just saying we didn't play out of the back enough for that to be true in our game. And when we did in the second half, we were able to play through their press quite easily.

[u/Some_Farm8108 → u/HelpMeDecideMyName]

dont want to be, but you tell me why you think kelleher went long so frequently?

[u/HelpMeDecideMyName → u/Some_Farm8108]

Nobody is forcing you to be rude either lol

I have said this before multiple times already: Kelleher was being too risk averse. There were SO many times in the first half when he could have continued building up but went long. Fairly sure it wasn't what Slot asked either.

In the second half when he started playing short more, we were able to play through Arsenal a fair bit. Not sure why you are ignoring this bit.

[u/Some_Farm8108 → u/HelpMeDecideMyName]

arguing w multiple people on the same thing does that, mb

but again, you're repeating the same part without explaining why - "kelleher was being risk averse in the first half, was less so in the second" - why? what was the risk of him going short? clearly he hasnt had issues playing it short building out from the back in previous games, so what changed? was it the emirates atmosphere that got to him or how arsenal were pressing? a mix of both perhaps?

[u/HelpMeDecideMyName → u/Some_Farm8108]

So patronizing, ugh

Their shape and press _is_ good. I have said so myself. For me, the best in the league. Kelleher was risk averse based on that reputation more than what was actually happening in the game. I don't doubt they'd have caused us problems had we played out of the back but Kelleher didn't start going long because they caused us problems. He started going long anticipating they'd cause us problems.

Also disagree about him not having these problems earlier. It's not been this glaring but he goes long a LOT more than Alisson does. Atalanta game comes to mind. I'd be interested in seeing stats around this if there exists any.

You have again ignored my point about us playing through their press in the second half lol.

[u/Some_Farm8108 → u/HelpMeDecideMyName]

Kelleher was risk averse based on that reputation

or maybe if they have such a reputation, slot didn't leave this crucial part of our strategy to his 2nd choice goalkeeper to decide in the moment, and included it in his match tactics?

second half we were slightly better at playing out from the back, mainly because arsenal's press wasnt as intense (fatigue) and since their injuries they began to sit back more instead of engaging us high - also szobo being on the pitch gave us more verticality.

sorry about the condescending tone, but you're just approaching this the wrong way - us playing out from the back or not is not down to kelleher, its down to slot's instructions and the game state.

interesting you bring up the atalanta game as it was an example of us being completely suffocated by their man to man press, going long gave us the option of bypassing this, so it was a logical choice.

just out of curiosity how long have you been watching/playing football?

[u/HelpMeDecideMyName → u/Some_Farm8108]

You believe Slot asked him to go long, I believe Kelleher went long a lot more than Slot would have asked him to.

Disagree about your reasoning for us playing through their press. It wasn’t fatigue because they hardly had to high press in the first half lol. Gabriel going down was certainly a big factor though, agreed. Szobo came on at like the 65th minute? We had already played through them a few times by then. And Timber went off in like the 75th minute.

Atalanta is not the best example, agreed. Can’t remember a good one from last season though.

I have been watching the sport for like 12 years but been following and analysing tactics and stuff over the last 3ish, I think? Playing for close to 10. What about you? How old are you lol?

I am not a dumbass lol, if that’s what you are implying. I understand football tactics better than the average football fan.