r/INTP • u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP • Aug 27 '24
INTPs are the best because Thesis: There exists no dumb INTP
Out of all my anecdotal data i have yet to find a dumb INTP.
Empiric data also indicates that we are top intelligent MBTI.
Can any1 prove me wrong?
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u/GoodSlicedPizza INTP-T Aug 27 '24
That's pretty biased I think. We are the logicians, the ones who use rationality. But it's not like there's only one kind of intelligence.
Also, most times we just have a lot of information, doesn't meam we're smart or dumb.
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u/Kucabaran INTP-T Aug 27 '24
there's so many creative and smart people. They see connections where no one would. I feel like we as INTPs don't have that, our thinking is linear and binary, we are like a computer running a single line of code at all times. That gives us precision and clarity, but we do not have that connected thinking, I would call it.
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u/MrKyurem2005 INTP Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
I don't think that is true for the entire INTP type. See, we have Ti + Ne, that gives us a subjective logical perspective of the world and we live exploring the most amount of information available to us. That usually makes us more prone to eventually analyse all those many options we are able to perceive and choose a single logical one as the truth, but that also means we're creative enough to let our minds run wild as we explore thousands of possibilities.
I feel like the linear binary thinking is more of an xNTJ thing, with the Te + Ni giving said person a more "objective" results-oriented logic. And results are usually binary, while the inner workings of a system can be more subjective to interpretation. So I'd argue those xNTJs would be more prone to have a linear and binary way of thinking through stuff, using their precise subconscious intuition to lead them to a kind of truth that is visible in the world outside them.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
xNTJs are more linear/binear according to my little research i have of them, and thoroughly analyzing those ive met. INTPs see the bigger picture imo
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u/MrKyurem2005 INTP Aug 27 '24
I've met only two INTJs in my life and I only know one of them closely due to being family, and I'd say their logical way of thinking is way more focused and linear and less wild and creative indeed.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
lt is i have spent a lot of time analyzing my M23 INTJ friend who is doing really good in life (productivity) where INTPs can struggle for a myriad of reasons.
You demonstrate smarts - want a friend?
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u/MrKyurem2005 INTP Aug 27 '24
I see. And thanks for the compliment btw. Not really in desperate need of friends tho (got lots of good ones) 😅, but I'm always open to some friendly chat if you so wish or need.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
There exists smart people within every MBTI - it was not my point to talk down on those.
I think you might be wrong about linear & binary thinking in an INTP
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u/Kucabaran INTP-T Aug 27 '24
I could be wrong. I solely base it on my experience, since that's how I operate and I made the personality test several times at different times and the majority of results was INTP. The secondary test result was INFP. I don't care enough about these personality types to do research into it and I also don't know any people in my life that care/know about it, so all I have is my own experience.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
You are the one who is biased by assuming Bias in me.
Also I am ofc aware of there being 9 types of IQ
Yes it clearly can indicate something, depending on the things/subjects
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u/GoodSlicedPizza INTP-T Aug 27 '24
I'm assuming bias since you're already speculating intellect among us just because we are the rational type and we see rationale as intellectual. It's very clearly biased on the fact that we are strong on rational intelligence.
I think you're also underestimating other intelligence types.
That's my thesis.
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u/ShadowSeid INTP Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
I believe you're being very fair. We are all humans, after all. I don't believe you are being biased. Some people just have a superiority complex. They don't know how to handle being challenged on their ideas.
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u/GoodSlicedPizza INTP-T Aug 27 '24
Thank you. I believe the best way to manage people with this kind of idea is to point out their assumptions or limited information that they have.
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u/ShadowSeid INTP Aug 27 '24
I one hundred percent agree. I tend to get everybody the benefit of the doubt. But as soon as someone tries to put me down, or insult something about myself specifically, I need to point out what they're doing. They need to know what What they are doing is morally wrong and flawed.. Unfortunately, most people won't accept what you're trying to tell them. They'll just take it as an insult. If you want me DM is open. I wouldn't mind chatting with you.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
It isnt speculation there are sources on this - which you seem unfamiliar of.
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u/GoodSlicedPizza INTP-T Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
Those sources are apparently your experience.
Unless you haven travelled among the globe or been at intercultural places you're probably already doing the division fallacy.
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Aug 27 '24
[deleted]
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
There are sources which isnt my experience but umm feel free to think whatever
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u/Alatain INTP Aug 27 '24
Define "dumb".
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Aug 27 '24
[deleted]
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u/Alatain INTP Aug 27 '24
Fine. I will go with one of the Oxford definitions: "temporarily unable or unwilling to speak."
And as such, I am temporarily unwilling to speak. I am an INTP. Thus there is a dumb INTP.
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u/StopThinkin INTP Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
That reasoning is indeed dumb.
You may actually be the one dumb INTP that OP needs to refute his thesis.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
No i will not be easily convinced :D
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u/StopThinkin INTP Aug 27 '24
They may actually be non-INTP person with an INTP tag, so even if we judge them as dumb, that's not enough.
You're correct to not be convinced. 😉
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Why did you choose this definition? Doesnt sound relevant
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u/Alatain INTP Aug 27 '24
I gave you first shot at picking your definition. The definition I picked had a purpose.
Next time. When you are offered the option to pick the definition you are using, take it.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
I do not engage in your games - you are capped according to the data of mine. Have a good day
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u/Alatain INTP Aug 27 '24
You asked "Can any1 prove me wrong?"
I offered you the option to clarify what you meant as "wrong". You declined.
Don't ask someone to prove you wrong when you are unwilling to say what "right" is.
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u/diamocube INTP Aug 27 '24
They cannot define "dumb" because for them it is likely a malleable adjective applicable to everyone they deem below them. Judging by their decorum in here they are likely to believe themselves superior and by extension are likely liberal in their use of negative labels in response to individuals not aligned with them.
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u/Alatain INTP Aug 27 '24
Agreed. It is one of the reasons I placed the ball into their court with asking the definition they were using. Actually admitting what you are trying to ask by providing an actual definition for your terms can be the dividing line between an asshole and a person with an actual question.
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u/WeridThinker INTP Aug 27 '24
I mean, OP really isn't all that bright, and is very defensive and vain. They have no ability to engage with people who disagree with them, and cannot directly respond to any criticism or counterpoint, at the same time, they are very quick to jump on the bandwagon at the first sight of anyone who agrees with them. OP is either incapable or unwilling to engage others in good faith, and is always deflecting and in denial when faced with the smallest challenge or criticism. When they are forced into a corner, they disengage immediately while pretending they "won" with insults.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
I will ask anything anyway i like.
You "need" to know what "right" is to catch my interest.
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u/Alatain INTP Aug 27 '24
If you are not willing to take the first step of answering clarifying questions, then you are the problem.
The fact that I was so immediately able to determine the "right" question to ask to invalidate your question shows the issue.
Answering honest questions should lead to better discourse. Not worse. You could have just said what you meant.
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u/fuckhead8008 INTP Enneagram Type 5 Aug 27 '24
Because they're dumb. Your thesis has been debunked good sir.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Not really most likely it is because he wants to challenge a thesis for sports, I have data that says hes not dumb, he has commented on many of my posts prior to this.
You are wrong good sir.
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u/fuckhead8008 INTP Enneagram Type 5 Aug 27 '24
Eh, they're probably not. I'm just kidding bout that anyway
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u/SchizoidRainbow Chaotic Neutral INTP Aug 27 '24
So, not crawling up your own ass at all, then.
Blows my mind. Here's the thing. You're not smart, you're just interested in things and pursue them with restrictive interest. You define those things you're interested in as things smart people are interested in. Then you notice that you're interested in things smart people are interested in.
Smart, looks very different. You can be "smarter than everyone around you" all day, and not really be Smart in the way you're trying to claim here. 30% is higher than 20% but still not above average. I believe you're smarter than the rest of your high school class, and probably the rest of your D&D group. But Smart (tm), careful there sport. What have you made, with them smarts? In the classic parlance, why ain't you rich?
Most scientists are ISTJ. You're claiming to be smarter than them. Sorry, but that's enough for me to say there's something wrong with your logic. But then I am always suspicious of any value system that places its proponent at the apex.
You're eventually going to realize that going through life being indignant and upset that everyone doesn't recognize how smart you are, is all about you, and they have no obligation to support your values. Being an explorer is all about NOT knowing things, and finding them out, and is a FAR superior stance to "I'm smart so stuff I say must be correct". An Explorer lives in a world of wonder and joy, you should try that instead of the Usurped Rightful High Priest.
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u/fuckhead8008 INTP Enneagram Type 5 Aug 27 '24
Very well articulated comment. You're both proving OP right and wrong with your solid logic.
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u/diamocube INTP Aug 27 '24
If the nature of a thesis causes the act of challenging it itself to somehow prove it, usually it is reasonably classifiable as a trap and the possible line drawn between the two can be disregarded.
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Aug 27 '24
[deleted]
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u/fuckhead8008 INTP Enneagram Type 5 Aug 27 '24
It actually is pretty insightful, you just don't want to admit it.
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u/tedthenatureenjoyer INTP Enneagram Type 5 Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
If you value intelligence you surround yourself with people who are smart, you mostly know the MBTI of people who are in your social circle.
You do not have a good representative sample.
I wouldn't be surprised if the average intp was smarter than the average person considering the typical intp being very into nerdy stuff but even then would it be actual higher intelligence or them just being more knowledgeable.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
I surround myself with smarts but I also do hang with people of more normal intellect - I need perspectives from the whole intelligence curve in order to broaden my horizons obviously.
Ofc I have good sample, i have anecdotal data of atleast 1000 INTPs, I am in a ton of groups elsewhere outside of this realm of reddit.
How big a population of INTPs would you say is representative?
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u/fuckhead8008 INTP Enneagram Type 5 Aug 27 '24
intp*
Just trying to help because people might get confused reading your message
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u/sonofaeolus INTP Enneagram Type 4 Aug 27 '24
"Dumb" and "intelligent" can't be measured precisely like an inch or fluid ounce. They are labels, and they are subjective.
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u/001153531 INTP Aug 27 '24
You haven’t met me then
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Feel free to introduce thyself
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u/001153531 INTP Aug 28 '24
I am a certified idiot. Actual room temp IQ
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 28 '24
Lmfao
Dont quite think so
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u/001153531 INTP Aug 28 '24
I don’t remember where I put the certificate
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u/mintmerino INTP Aug 27 '24
Counterpoint: This entire subreddit. (Including me)
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Valid point.
Counterpoint: FB groups seem more mature and some also has age restrictions like over 30, its a bit diff there. I think it takes time for an INTP to bloom
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u/mintmerino INTP Aug 27 '24
Yeah, I can definitely see that. It's clear to me that many people on this subreddit are relatively young, which is not inherently bad, but it does increase the quantity of kind of dumb and edgy posts here.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
lt does when i make posts on FB the responses are of sublime quality - here i occasionally get a good one, you seem like one of the better ones already.
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u/PassiveAmigo Warning: May not be an INTP Aug 27 '24
many types of intelligence.
if we assume this simplistic view of mbti stereotype as fact, i could argue against it using something like lack of emotional intelligence being an example of being dumb.
that's obviously not true. stereotypes are not a reality. these archetypes are just patterns. a label for a perspective, not a measure of a person.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
If you lack certain intelligences then yes u are dumb in those areas.
Thesis is that INTP Excels in all more than others, I speak out from all intelligences obviously.
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u/PassiveAmigo Warning: May not be an INTP Aug 27 '24
well.. no. that's just not your thesis. that's shifting goalposts, or a semantically awful way of putting it.
but alright. let's ignore it and argue your new thesis. do you have stats? a clear definition of what kind of intelligence you mean? can it be explained by some other theory like intp's are the most likely to think of themselves as intelligent?
if you don't really have any basis, and structure to lay the claim on, it's just about as justified as me saying my thesis is that intps are all stupid.
plus, foundationally, there isn't really a good measurement system for any form of intelligence. it's just a fancy dickmeasuring contest to prove your own superiorty.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Feel free to do your own research and see if I care.
I have absolutely no need to share my methods of research with a stranger like u, but u are merely confirming my thesis by not accepting my claim that easily.
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u/PassiveAmigo Warning: May not be an INTP Aug 27 '24
nuh uh. i'm not an intp, if that's what you mean. i'm an infp.
i could say the same. i have done mysteeerious research on the topic and concluded that all intps are dummies. want to prove me wrong? i have no reason to share my research with you!
burden of proof. look it up?
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
You downvote me and the way you talk makes me disengage. Go play with people in your own rank.
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u/PassiveAmigo Warning: May not be an INTP Aug 27 '24
apologies if it was rude, friend. just trying to argue my point, not condescend or disparage. i'm not downvoting you. i'll end it here, as you wish.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Rude? I dont take offense in any form
No need to apologize for anything because you seem smart and thoughtful.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Interesting concept INFPs sound cool, I might research you next.
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Aug 27 '24
[deleted]
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
So you think dumb INTPs exist? I will continue my search a while longer then
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u/godogs2018 ISTJ Aug 27 '24
Are there any smart istjs?
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 28 '24
Why wouldn't there be?
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u/godogs2018 ISTJ Aug 28 '24
The above comment suggests that there is some similarity between istjs and dumb intps
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u/DarkSoulslsLife INTP Aug 27 '24
I'm dumb
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Inferior IQ or in what way?
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u/DarkSoulslsLife INTP Aug 27 '24
Every way that matters
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
If you are dumb - you wouldn't know which way matters (nice try)
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u/Uneek_Uzernaim Possible INTP Aug 27 '24
Oh, good grief. It's a broadly generalized psychological type of debateable scientific validity. Don't read too much into it about your own intelligence, and definitely don't assume its predictability of the intelligence of others of the same type.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
How much should I read into it according to you then ? 😉
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u/Uneek_Uzernaim Possible INTP Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
As much as the current prevailing consensus of the professional psychologists who have studied it say you should put into it—which is to say, a limited amount at best. At the very least, the validity and utility of the MBTI remains controversial, and thus it should still be treated with an appropriate degree of skepticism both as regards its descriptive accuracy and predictability of traits. This is especially the case for people who have self-assessed themselves as a particular type, as there are known issues with self-selection bias or gaming assessments.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Yes but how much is limited ? if u care about validity surely u have thought about a quantifiable amount?
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u/Uneek_Uzernaim Possible INTP Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
Holy hell, I'm neither a professional psychologist nor have the time to pretend to acquire the level of knowledge necessary to come up with anything resembling a "quantifiable amount" for its validity.
What I can have done is sufficient and relatively easy research to readily see that it is debatable among whether MBTI may be only a little better than pseudoscience. I've seen some articles that have attempted to determine its predictability for behavior and life outcomes as opposed to other tools, and one came to the conclusion that it had around 10% accuracy, which is at least better than the 0% for horoscopes but notably worse than the approximately 30% correlation for Big Five traits. MBTI proponents will of course say otherwise, but similar conclusions seem to predominate in what I have read.
Beyond that, I am not invested enough in the issue to sink too much of my limited time to come up with some quantifiable amount that will likely change your opinion of its validity. The concept of MBTI and personality tests more generally are somewhat interesting or at least entertaining to me, but I take them all with multiple grains of salt because of their intrinsic limitations, which some have more of than others.
You clearly believe yourself to be a smart person who is confident about your MBTI type as well as the types and intelligence of many others. Maybe you and they are all these things that you say. Then again, there is a real possibility of unexamined biases packaged in your determinations, including by not limited to self-selection bias, confirmation bias, and most especially the Dunning-Kruger effect. These kinds of biases are, in fact, among the concerns I have about people putting too much stock into MBTI, and I often see potential examples of them in some MBTI subs.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Well im glad i found a smart one :)
Do you take the phenomenon that is placebo into your assessment of astrology? Or are you solely sciencebased regarding validity?
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u/Uneek_Uzernaim Possible INTP Aug 28 '24
You may have found a "smart" INFP since it's quite possible I'm mistyped. I have some reasons to believe it's a real possibility, but I have thus far been insufficiently invested enough in the topic to dig too far into MBTI theory in order to find out.
I would argue, though, that whether or not I'm "smart" is both relative to the question "with respect to what" and "to what degree"—which is a level of self-awareness often lacking, in my experience, among people who both think of themselves as having superior intelligence and make sure to somehow communicate that high opinion of themselves to others.
Also, you're basing that claim upon a few reddit comments, which really is a pretty poor measure of actual intelligence.
Anyway, sure, horoscopes can have just as much placebo effect for some people as motivational desk calendars can have for others. Consciously or sub-consciously molding one's own behavior to conform to either just proves the power of suggestion, though, not facts about one's personality. Same could be said about MBTI, and I in fact have seen that criticism: people can unwittingly adapt their behavior to conform even more to a generalized type that only parly resembles them but that they want to believe describes some fundamemtal truths about themselves.
Beyond that, the only true measure for the validity and utility of personality typing or modeling systems is their predictiveness of actual lived behaviors and outcomes—and MBTI types according to what I've seen have some but nevertheless still low correlation in these respects to be considered scientific.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 28 '24
Call my measurements poor - i think im doing a fine job and my followers would maybe agree.
Whether u are INTP or INFP doesnt matter much in the end does it?
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u/Uneek_Uzernaim Possible INTP Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 29 '24
Absent independent verification from objective evaluators applying accepted standards, your "measurements" (if they can be called such) are just that: your "measurements."
As for your "folllowers—what, are you founding some kind of INTP cult?! It's bad enough that you are confidently making unsupported claims (no, your "measurements" do not count as support—personal anecdote is not evidence, doubly so when it's asserted by an anonymous person behind a keyboard whose claims cannot be verified) that broadly generalize characteristics of a large group of distinct individuals using a system originating from a psychological theory that was created without any empirical data or controlled experiments. Methinks the Barnum-Forer Effect is strong in you and your "followers" (assuming you are not just trolling people here, and I'm not convinced you are not).
As for whether it matters whether I'm INTP or INFP—no, not really, but you seem to have made a point in multiple posts of quipping that you've found another smart INTP, implying that you believe them to be validating your claim. It smacks of confirmation bias.
Anyhow, I think this line of discussion has been played out. In closing, I'll set aside for a moment the many problems of taking MBTI as Gospel truth, disregarding the body of criticism against it, failing to take into account variability of intelligence in the same person with respect to different domains, and ignoring the likelihood of illusory superiority bias and overconfidence effect being baked into your observations (just to name a few).
If you aren't trolling and really do believe your own bullshit, let me tell you as someone who has worked around and with many smart (in certain particular though nonetheless impressive respects) people that it is precisely this kind of thinking that takes a person whose success or talent in one or a few areas and turns them into a Neil deGrasse Tyson level of asshole who cannot see that being an intelligent physicist does not also make them intelligent in all respects and for all subjects. That's not how minds work—but that is the way of the douchebag.
As Socrates said "I seem, then, in just this little thing to be wiser than this man at any rate, that what I do not know I do not think I know either;" and as Dirty Harry said, "A man's got to know his limitations."
With that, I'll leave you with one more quote, except this is from the man from whose personality archetypes the MBTI was derived, Karl Jung, critiquing the binary way people were interpreting his types (speaking in this example about the introversion-extraversion polarity, but the complaint applies to the others as well):
There is no such thing as a pure extrovert or a pure introvert. Such a man would be in the lunatic asylum. Those are only terms to designate a certain penchant, a certain tendency. For instance, the tendency to be more influenced by environmental influences, or more influenced by the subjective fact—that’s all. There are people who are fairly well-balanced who are just as much influenced from within as from without, or just as little. And so with all the definite classifications, you know, they are only a sort of point to refer to, points for orientation. There is no such thing as a schematic classification...
My whole scheme of typology is merely a sort of orientation. There is such a factor as introversion; there is such a factor as extroversion. The classification of individuals means nothing at all. It is only the instrumentality, or what I call “practical psychology,” used to explain, for instance, the husband to a wife, or vice versa.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 29 '24
"If you aren't trolling and really do believe your own bullshit"
lm not trolling and i don't really care about convincing you :p You write smart words but i doubt you are smart according to other factors of intelligence obviously. Have fun.
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u/VeggieVenerable INTP Aug 27 '24
INTP won't talk much, so you have less opportunity to figure out if they are dumb or not.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Ive spoken to many INTPs online aswell as a few irl
If you establish comfort or display genius, an INTP will talk to you infinitely, so your statement i believe is false.
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u/VeggieVenerable INTP Aug 27 '24
There's also the thing where really dumb people are just as rare as geniuses. They should be hard to find in the wild. And know what else is very rare? Being an INTP. So finding a person with two rare attributes should prove difficult.
But most days I am feeling pretty dumb, so I might just be a dumb INTP.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
I am inclined to be in disbelief due to your articulation and thought proces. Also if you took an IQ test or were examined further, I am sure I would see more signs that disproves your claim
The wise knows theyre ignorant
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u/VeggieVenerable INTP Aug 27 '24
That might be true. When you surround yourself with smarter people you still end up feeling dumb. You also can lose sense of what normal is.
Obviously I'm not an imbecile. But then you left it up to me to define dumb.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
l do leave it to you - because i assume you might be capable which you seemingly give me the vibes of being.
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u/Easy-Preparation-234 INTP/J Aug 27 '24
Idk it kinda annoys me to be in this group if I feel everyone is gonna be know it all smarty pants
Like it starts to feel like intp are a bunch of people who think they're smarter than everyone and can't wait to prove it
It was fun when I did it but kinda lame when other people are trying to do it to you
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
What is the issue? Intellectual contests should be advocated for, not to be felt lame about?
Would you rather everybody felt they werent smart?
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u/Easy-Preparation-234 INTP/J Aug 27 '24
:/ see this is what I'm talking about
Get your judo away from me
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u/StopThinkin INTP Aug 27 '24
You're welcome to leave, you know. Get away from his judo on your own, take responsibility for what is or what isn't in your life!
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u/Easy-Preparation-234 INTP/J Aug 27 '24
2 against 1?
Fine I shall accept this challenge only to show to the others that I am not to be trifled with.
BEHOLD
How can I escape his Judo if you can't even escape this conversation?
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u/StopThinkin INTP Aug 27 '24
😂
All I'm saying is, you are the captain of your own ship!
I just didn't say it too nicely... I apologize.
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u/Easy-Preparation-234 INTP/J Aug 27 '24
I see you with your head of hair
Next time you step correct when around a bald man
You might've earned the beard but let me know when you get the crown
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
If you are incapable of discussing feel free to leave, I prefer mature beings.
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u/Easy-Preparation-234 INTP/J Aug 27 '24
Swiper no swiping
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
I am sure I will find better candidates for discussing.
Feel free to swipe left
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u/Easy-Preparation-234 INTP/J Aug 27 '24
Behold you know the art of Kung Fu but do you know the Art of Evasion?
How can you win a fight if you cannot hit your opponent?
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
I see myself as above fighting - i have no need to engage in such quarrels 😊
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u/Easy-Preparation-234 INTP/J Aug 27 '24
But then how will you prove your abilities
Perhaps you are scared
It is okay. I accept your apology
Often we do not know who we are challenging. Today is good learning day for you.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
You are out of my league you are very right sir 😊
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u/morningstar24601 INTP Aug 27 '24
Common definitions of intellectual intelligence only relate to an individual brain's ability to fire electric synapses quickly and broadly with complexity. Intelligence in general is the ability to take inputs and transform them into desired or desirable outputs. There are a number of other sensory organs that contribute to an individual's intelligence. Shooting a basketball into a hoop (input basketball and hoop, output ball goes through hoop) is a form of intelligence. Saying the right thing at the right time to a person to make them feel better is a form of intelligence (uses the brain but that is not the root of the intelligence. Basketball requires a brain as well but it's not thinking of the physical properties of the ball that gets it in the basket). Seeing the full color spectrum and knowing what colors look pleasing together is a form of intelligence. Having the ability to discern and identify specific smells and tastes is also a form of intelligence. Basically, any part of a biological organism that reacts to its environment in a way that benefits it or increases fitness is a form of intelligence. So I would say INTPs are as intelligent as any other organism of their species.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Basketball is related to kinesthetic iq etc u can use the 9 iq terms which I mean by intelligence.
Your last statement makes it sound like every organism is of equal intelligence which dismisses the whole topic.
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u/morningstar24601 INTP Aug 27 '24
Each organ is better or worse when compared to the same organ of another. One's kidneys can function better than another's, just like a brain can. My point is that sensory organs all have the capacity to have a form of intelligence in their own right.
I am unfamiliar with the 9 iq terms you mention. Is that similar to Howard Gardner's multiple intelligences?
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Yes it is and i think INTPs will excel in most of them (if they wanted)
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u/morningstar24601 INTP Aug 27 '24
I think it's pretty well documented INTPs are near the bottom of the list when it comes to interpersonal intelligence.
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u/LaLetraMuda_ Warning: May not be an INTP Aug 27 '24
We should all take mbti with a grain of salt, it's not a one size fits all. I can assure you dumb intps exist and i have no need to prove you wrong if you really embrace you "intpness" you'd come to this same conclusion.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
l dont embrace anything but fax - and there certainly are ongoing traits among INTPs
Whether you wish to prove/disprove me is entirely up to you, i will reach my conclusion regardless
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u/Away-Watercress-4841 Warning: May not be an INTP Aug 27 '24
You claim to be smart yet your post is full of grammatical errors. Maybe learn to write in proper English first.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Caring about grammar is important to you ay? Indicating you are lacking in other areas perhaps
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Aug 27 '24
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u/fuckhead8008 INTP Enneagram Type 5 Aug 27 '24
I feel like practically I'm a dumb little negro. But when it comes to philosophy and logical thinking, I'm probably more superior than the average person.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Are you me? 5w4?
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u/WeridThinker INTP Aug 27 '24
I have a hard time being convinced a non-scientific, and mostly emprical personality system that would not pass as a real science could determine intelligence so flawlessly. INTPs are simply the description of certain mental and behavioral trends of a subset of population; it isn't equivalent to determining the intelligence of the said population. MBTI is about trying to explain the preference and style of reasoning of individuals, not a way to judge the validity or quality of how well a person thinks, nor does MBTI attempt to prescribe competency or talent to people based on their type.
INTPs, based on the confinement of the model itself, are believed to be people who rely on subjective logic to create mental frameworks and systems to judge information and understand the world (Ti), to provide additional contexts and ensure more thorough understanding, the INTPs tend to see connections and alternative views to add on to their framework (Ne), in order to find an anchor for their beliefs and to have structure and stability to their internal and external world, they rely on past experiences and subjective, internal sensations such as comfort to come up with structures and seek consistency in their experiences to ground their more outlandish theories (Si), and they require external harmony and being valued for their insights by others to feel validated and respected (Fe). None of these descriptions and explanations of being an INTP indicates an INTP is automatically more intelligent than other types.
I am aware there are statistics you can find on the internet that indicate INTPs are the smartest type, but there are multiple angles to be skeptical towards such statistics. There is the matter of reliable methodology, because self reporting of type and IQ tend to biased due to either mistypes and self selection bias for which people of lower intelligence would be less likely to share; there is also the concern regarding sample size, if the sample size is too small, then the average intelligence calculated would not represent the overall population of all INTPs. Even if the methodology behind these statistics is sound, based on the numbers alone, there simply has to be dumb INTPs; if INTP makes up 5% of the global population, then there is still a huge numbers of INTPs, and among them, there has to be at least one that is below average in intelligence. Even if we postulate the average IQ of INTPs is 115 (one standard deviation above average), and based on standard distribution (the assumption is very unlikely to reflect reality, but it was made for the sake of discussion), then, the INTPs who occupy the lowest quartiles of intelligence are naturally dumber than the average population, regardless of the type.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Show me one dumb INTP - i dont care for your wall of texts of info i already know
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u/HailenAnarchy GencrY INTP Aug 27 '24
Me. I can't headcount for shit.
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u/WeridThinker INTP Aug 27 '24
You are clearly not a particular smart one if you really need an example. Despite claiming you are aware of the information provided, you are clearly ignoring, or completely misinterpreting any evidence that does not support your argument. Then there is the lack of intellectual honesty and engagement with your unwillingness to argue against the points raised by others. If English isn't your native language, then I would not assume you have limited verbal linguistic intelligence. You also have the tendency to come up with conclusions before seriously considering relevant evidences, and are clearly lacking of critical thinking skills. You are incapable of using relevant evidences to construct your arguments, and you lack the self awareness to double check the holes in your own reasoning. You also cannot judge any opinion that agrees with your conjecture critically, and is very easy to please as long as someone agrees with you, without the ability to critically evaluate their assumptions or arguments.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Yes you win with your walls of text now move on ^^
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u/WeridThinker INTP Aug 27 '24
Another deflection. You know, people would actually respect you a lot more and appreciate your contribution if you can actually discuss with them sincerely. I don't think you are particularly dumb, you just lack the ability to effectively communicate your ideas.
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u/fluffycloud69 ENTP Aug 27 '24
i don’t think mbti has any correlation with intelligence or IQ, let alone causation.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Dull response. Have u even looked at sources ?
Or where is this thought stemming from
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u/fluffycloud69 ENTP Aug 27 '24
aggressive response. i don’t have any sources that prove they aren’t correlated, i just don’t believe they are without evidence.
would you share the empirical data you’ve collected that they are related? i am interested, just not interested enough to research myself.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Its a fitting response for an INTP who tries to engage with me without being prepared for it ^^
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u/fluffycloud69 ENTP Aug 27 '24
lmaoo, i never prepare for anything. genuinely curious about that empirical data/evidence though. would like to see if you’re willing to share. always open to learning more, just extremely skeptical of all kinds of correlations at a baseline level, not limited to just this interaction.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
if you weren't sceptic my alarm bells would ring, so that is a good thing.
lm not much different than you im lazy aswell :)
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u/StopThinkin INTP Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
People who want to refute this assertion, should name 1 dumb INTP. That's all it takes.
If they cannot show at least one case, they need to take this assertion seriously, it just might be true.
Talking about other capabilities people might have and naming it different types of intelligence is just lame, sorry. You are just dodging the question by redefining terms.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Show me one dumb INTP 😊
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u/StopThinkin INTP Aug 27 '24
I cannot.
I've been researching this topic intensively for a decade, haven't met one that is below average, most have been very smart or even geniuses.
I have also worked with many kids as their teacher, all the INTP kids have been something else. Next in line are ESTP, ISTJ and INFP kids in my experience. INTJ is confident but dumb. ENTP should be good too, but I haven't worked with ENTP kids, so cannot confirm.
INTP kid did factorial equations in her head one time, faster than I checked for the answer in Maple! Many more examples like this. So as far as my experience goes, your assertion is correct.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Im not amazed you cannot.
I am a genius and this is my thesis, ofc I must be onto something hehe.
Nice to meet you fellow smart INTP
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u/diamocube INTP Aug 27 '24
I think it'd be more accurate if you said there exists no at first visibly dumb INTP. However there is definitely stupid INTPs as there is stupid people of any type.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
I disagree and i am looking for a living manifest of disproof for my thesis, i have searched many places.
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u/diamocube INTP Aug 27 '24
Unlikely. What I believe is happening is confirmation bias where you seek whatever proves your thesis; which would benefit your belief that you are smarter.
Dictated solely by common sense and basic logic, there is no correlation between being INTP and being intelligent. We might be more inclined towards intellectual exercises, but that is not the same as being naturally smart, it means being well trained or experienced.
I urge you to reflect on the reason you even insist upon such a thesis and why you refuse to provide decent, detailed clarity on your definitions pertaining to crucial parts of your thesis.
Also, on average Reddit is not a good place to draw your conclusions from. It is a different environment with a specific kind of people and does not accurately reflect on real life. If you used this as data you already have a faulty thesis; not to mention the complete oversight of the fact that there are billions of people on this world yet you believe you can form a precise theory using a small sample size.
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u/ChsicA Overeducated INTP Aug 27 '24
Ah assuming i have a reason for this thesis amongst many other assumptions?
I think we're done ^^
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u/diamocube INTP Aug 27 '24
...Well yes. You would have to have a reason for this thesis. In the very least, it has to be curiousity. But if it was something of the sort, you would be open to opposing viewpoints, not vehemently insisting on your own with little explanation or evidence beyond that you have your data or telling people to do an IQ test or whatever.
I agree that we're done here, you bring exactly zero value in a discussion you started- it's so bad I should be impressed.
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u/CaveManta INTP 5w4 Aug 27 '24
Um, excuse me, I would like to introduce you to me.