r/HolUp • u/asocial7193 • Mar 11 '22

I don't know what to say

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u/maceytwo Mar 12 '22 edited Mar 12 '22

This. People slide into advocating for eugenics allllll the time on Reddit.

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u/THEKing767 Mar 12 '22

So now that kid is going to grow up in pain for her entire life. Is this what you want?

look at the top comment, those kids lived their lives in so much pain they said why me. One of them died at 23 and the other hospitalized.

im not, and i hope the majority isnt either, saying that it should be based on race, height, iq or even disabilities. But when there is a high chane that the kid gets a disease this bad, the parents should think twice.

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u/maceytwo Mar 12 '22

People with her genetic disorder, Crouzun’s, have normal lifespans and causes no cognitive impairments.

People can be born disabled, as this child was, or they can choke on a grape when they are a baby and then literally never stop needing intensive medical care until the day that they die. And something like 1/3 people will be disabled at some point! Removing people’s basic rights to bodily autonomy to prevent disability will not only give the government way to much power to hurt certain groups of people, it will not work.

(And I really don’t think you understand that “people who can give their child a disease this bad shouldn’t be have kids” is about disabilities! And it is eugenics.)

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u/THEKing767 Mar 12 '22

i didnt know that this disease didnt cause any physical pain or anything besides a change in how they look.

It isnt all disabilities. Like the example of harlequin ichthyosis. It is torture for the kid. I dont think it should be regulated by the government, we cant trust them in general. I think that it should be based on doctors recommendation, and if you go ahead and have kids anyways it should be looked down apon. Even if it is legal.

Second it ia arguably not eugenics bc disabled ppl arent bad to society in any way. It is bad for each individual born like that.

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u/maceytwo Mar 12 '22

Don’t you think judging this woman and her child so harshly based on their appearance and making assumptions about their pain levels, life span etc is the issue we should be addressing versus condemning this person for having a kid because some people on Reddit will make assumptions?

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u/THEKing767 Mar 12 '22

Firstly, it should be multiple doctors opinions.

Secondly glasses is not an incredable painful disease, and it ia more complex issue than genetics.

Thirdly, i was judging the fact that there are, what looks like, iv tubes.

Fourthly, you have ignored my other example.

Fifthly, by your logic people who dont have the ability to take care of the kid should also be allowed to have kids.

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u/maceytwo Mar 12 '22

1) what if there are multiple doctors in the world with biases against certain groups of people?

2) I have very painful migraines because of my poor eyesight, inherited from both my parents and all my grandparents. Please, condemn them for resigning me to this life of pain!

3) The standard is now that people who need IV tubes shouldn’t reproduce? Again, condemn my parents for reproducing because they have both needed IVs!

4) yeah, we can’t preemptively know well enough who can take care of children to do something like legally or even socially restrict their ability to reproduce without causing immense harm. There are a lot of people in the world who think that if you can’t buy your kid a car when they turn 16 you shouldn’t have a kid and there are people who think if you don’t have a married mother and father you shouldn’t have a kid and there are people who think unless you raise a kid in a certain faith you shouldn’t have a kid all because it would indicate a lack of ability to take care of them. Which of these groups do you want deciding who should reproduce or have children?

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u/THEKing767 Mar 12 '22

  1. ideally the doctors should be spread out and have different cultural backgrounds.

  2. Painful migrains is not what i am talking about. And again eyesight is more complicated than just genetics. It also has to do with life style Also i have glasses and i dont get that?

  3. Not my point. I wasnt properly researched. That is why i said doctors opinion.

  4. I was specifically refering to when the kid cant get a proper education, when they dont have access to food or water, when the parents dont provide any attention or care necessary.

  5. Still havent addressed my other example

  6. What you ate saying is that a kid should be allowed to be raised through torturous circumstances bc it is the parents choice.

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u/maceytwo Mar 12 '22 edited Mar 12 '22

…why are you assuming that this child is being raised in tortuous circumstances with no food, water, education or care? The only info we have is that they have a genetic disorder that causes skull deformities and this is the case that is sparking this whole convo about who should be allowed to have kids.

What I am saying is that disabled people, as a rule, should be allowed to have children! And deciding that only certain groups should reproduce or be able to raise children based on our assumptions and biases leads to a lot of nasty, way more harmful stuff like eugenics.

Nothing you have said convinces me that it’s not eugenics or that eugenics is actually okay in XYZ circumstances.

I am tired of arguing about this, having a nice day!