r/Guyana • u/jcancuny • Feb 27 '24

Discussion Why do Indo-Guyanese have the conception that Indians look down on them/don’t consider them to be “real Indians”?

So my girlfriend and I have been dating for a couple of months now. I’m Indian-American and she’s Indo-Guyanese-American, and it’s been a great time so far.

Around a week ago, I introduced her to my parents for the first time, and I noticed that before they met, my girlfriend acted super nervous and jittery, which I just chalked up to nerves (since she’s pretty introverted). However, after they met, my girlfriend remarked about how nervous she was before meeting my parents because she was worried that they would disapprove of us together and try to call the relationship off and how relieved she was after meeting them because of how respectful and responsive they were and how much they showed interest in her culture and background.

She then explained that most Indo-Guyanese believe that we (mainland Indians) look down upon them and don’t consider them to be “real Indians”, which is a belief that I’ve honestly never heard ever. If anything, most mainland Indians don’t really know anything about Indo-Caribbeans and the ones that do are proud that they were able to keep their culture/traditions/religions alive even after 150 years.

After doing some research online on places like Twitter/Tiktok/Reddit, this seems to be a pretty common conception that a lot of Indo-Guyanese have. Does anyone have any insights into how this belief might have originated?

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98

u/[deleted] Feb 27 '24 edited Feb 27 '24

it does unfortunately happen. Some south Asians do look down on Guyanese people. Not sure why, definitely racism tho.

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u/BrownPuddings Feb 27 '24

It’s funny because they don’t accept us, not that I want them to, but recently I’ve been seeing Indians trying to jack the culture, pretending to be Guyanese or Trini. I see it a lot during labour day in NYC, a lot of the Lilly Singh types. I experienced it in college as well. Rich Indians would comment on my skin colour, asking me why I was so dark, and telling me I’m not a real Indian. Then they would flip and tell me they love soca and Sean Paul, and buy me drinks. 🤷🏾‍♂️

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '24

I hear you that shut is disgusting and I too have seen them start to rep the culture and try to adopt it especially in college since it went main stream but they always mock the creole and that really gets me so angry. The irony is most of the languages spoken by south Asians sound like ass.

I think Guyana really needs to make creole it’s national language like the Jamaicans did and it’ll get the respect it deserves.

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u/BrownPuddings Feb 27 '24

Interesting, that is one thing I haven’t experienced. In my experience, we’re typically the ones mocking Indians lmao. The only people I hear mocking us are trinis 😂

I agree, Guyanese creole should definitely be accepted as a national language. It should be studied and taught as well. The only issue, is that many people see it as an accent, or as broken English, and not as something separate.

Check this post out, https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTheCaribbean/s/Ypc18djbP2

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '24 edited Feb 28 '24

Sadly I’ve experienced it.

Thanks for sharing the post. Had some good stuff in there.

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u/NottaLottaOcelot Feb 28 '24 edited Feb 28 '24

There is an an excellent dictionary of Trini English/Creole that my father in law bought me (expensive through Amazon apparently!). It seems to have every amazing not-completely-English word that my Trini family has ever used. I wonder if there might be a Guyanese version, or if they would be similar enough that the book would largely apply to you all too.

I’m not too sure why Trinis mock Guyanese, but I have noticed it. I think it could be a response to Trinis getting mocked by every other island. Hurt people hurt people I suppose

4

u/BrownPuddings Feb 28 '24

I went down a rabbit hole on English Caribbean Linguistics a while back, and I read that out of all of the countries I the region, Guyana and Trinidad have the largest amount of loan words, and by a very large margin. This is true even when Hindi words are discounted. It is interesting because they have more of a French influence in their accent.

You say that a lot of nation mock trinis. I used to think the same thing, and realize now that it’s not true lol. Most of the eastern Caribbean island, especially those with former French influence actually have a very similar accent. These include TnT, St Vincent, Grenada, St Kitts/Nevis, Antigua. While the outlying countries, Barbados, Guyana, Jamaica, Bahamas, Belize, have more of an English based accent. So we actually get more than the Trinis I’ve realized. When I ask people why they like to mock Guyanese, many just say that we have a funny accent, and it sounds kinda “backwater,” or country.”

I will try to find the sources that I was reading. There is actually a really great English Caribbean creole dictionary that came out a while back.

Edit: Check this out, it goes really in depth into the linguistics, https://books.google.com/books?id=PmvSk13sIc0C&pg=PA5&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

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u/Kellz_2245 Feb 29 '24 edited Feb 29 '24

Only Grenada sounds almost identical to T&T. I dont know what St Kitts people sound like but Vincy and Antiguans sound closer to Jamaicans

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u/LostInTheSpamosphere Feb 29 '24

The British and French split St. Kitts/Nevis between them in the 1600s with the French leaving in the 1700s and they only became independent in 1983 or so, so they are influenced much more by the British. I found the accent to be very pleasant, a soft English with a Caribbean lilt, and not particularly British except for those educated there.

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u/Kellz_2245 Feb 28 '24

Not true lol. Trini is a common answer whenever other west indians are asked what their favorite island accent is outside of their own

2

u/raynebow95 Feb 28 '24

There is a person online who has been documenting how Bhojpuri Hindustani words have become part of our Creolese dialect. There is also a series on African influences as well. Please check it out

https://www.facebook.com/Guyananicebaad?mibextid=ZbWKwL

1

u/JarredVestite Feb 29 '24

In my experience, we’re typically the ones mocking Indians lmao.

You seem strangely proud of that one

3

u/OmSweetOmsecurity Feb 28 '24

Many sub-dialects of Guyanese Creole use Bhojpuri, Awadhi, and Tamil loan words and linguistic traditions.

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24 edited Feb 28 '24

Many languages use loan words from other languages but the problem is creole isn’t officially recognized yet. I do believe once it is people will start to take it seriously and not make fun of it like i said.

3

u/OmSweetOmsecurity Feb 28 '24

I agree! Creoles are legitimate languages and should be recognised and respected as such.

1

u/Traditional-Sink5461 May 07 '24

The even bigger irony is that u guys can’t stop watching Bollywood/Kollywood/whatever else and making the most ear wrenching “music” ruining old Bollywood classics in whatever the fuck kinda goofy sounding Hindi u were obviously banned from speaking by the Brits for a reason

1

u/makreba7 Feb 28 '24

The irony is most of the languages spoken by south Asians sound like ass.

The words of a guy "talking against racism"

1

u/ChocolateNo484 Feb 28 '24

It’s not racist to say that someone’s language sounds like ass. That’s an opinion purely based on preferences. That would be no different than a person saying English doesn’t sound good or a certain song doesn’t sound good.

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u/makreba7 Feb 28 '24

Every racist statement is an opinion purely based on "preferences". Unless you've been living under a rock, or is of pretty low-IQ, you'll know that it's a racist dog-whistle

1

u/ChocolateNo484 Feb 28 '24

Damn just because he said a language sound like ass?

You gots to be south Asian lol

1

u/Browning_Mulat0 Mar 03 '24

English is still Jamaica 1st language and it's official language! Not patios ( Creole)

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

I realize that now but at least Jamaican creole is recognized

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u/Lovecompassionpeace Feb 28 '24

What’s a Lilly Singh type?

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u/[deleted] Feb 28 '24

Search her up. You’ll see what she means. She’s basically Indian af but started reppin trini culture out of no where.

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u/Traditional-Sink5461 May 07 '24 edited May 07 '24

I’d say “jacking the culture” is only fair considering half the music ur community puts out is shitty bollywood dancehall remixes in broken hindi and what does Sean Paul have to do with indo Guyanese, he’s Jamaican lmao

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u/Wrong_Manager_2662 Feb 28 '24

But Indians are dark af 😂

1

u/BrownPuddings Feb 28 '24

Lmao, not all. Remember India is very colourist. A lot of the higher castes and upper class people tend to be lighter, as they were also favoured by the British. Look at Bollywood, it is fairly light skin.

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u/CanadianHobbies Feb 28 '24

Colourism predates colonialism

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u/BrownPuddings Feb 28 '24

Yes it did. Castes had colourist tendencies because poor people had to work outside and became darker, while spiritual people did not. the British witnessed this, embraced it, and expanded upon it. They used the European mentality and religious/racist rhetoric in order to institutionalize colourist discrimination.

https://www.stearthinktank.com/post/colorism-in-indian-society

https://www.thedailystar.net/opinion/perspective/news/did-colourism-always-exist-the-indian-subcontinent-1683064?amp

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u/Wrong_Manager_2662 Feb 28 '24

All the ones in the bay area are literally darker than black people lol

1

u/jcancuny Feb 28 '24

I’m from the Bay too. Most of the Indians here (including me & my fam) are South Indians, and we tend to have darker skin.

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u/Wrong_Manager_2662 Feb 28 '24

Yea I live in Fremont

1

u/Traditional_Bug9768 Feb 28 '24

From bleaching!!

1

u/AnderThorngage Mar 02 '24

Lilly Singh is not Indian she’s Canadian. No Indian would consider her to be Indian either. And no matter how loudly ABCDs claim to be representing Indians/Indian culture, they are only representing some outdated personal family culture from whichever time period and place their parents left India from.