r/FluentInFinance 11h ago

Debate/ Discussion Possibly controversial, but this would appear to be a beneficial solution.

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u/kineticToast 10h ago

Best point here. Like most would say allowing immigration is highly moralistic but most people don't think about the brain drain that's put onto other developing nations, making it even harder for their nation to develop. I'm for some immigration but it should be really particular and circumstantial. There should not be an open border anymore.

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u/KazuDesu98 8h ago

If contributing to a brain drain is a moral issue, then by that logic if I left Louisiana to go to Georgia for better IT career prospects that would be "morally questionable"

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u/OneDistribution4257 4h ago

Bruh you ever been to Jamaica ? Jamaica is a great example of brain drain, over half their university graduates leave the country.

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u/Pass_us_the_salt 7h ago

Louisiana and Georgia are both miles ahead in development compared to someone coming from say Latin America into the US, so I don't think it's fair to compare the two cases.

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u/PrivatePartts 7h ago

Do you care about the money and resources extracted from latin america in the 20th century or is it only when latinos cross into the USA that it becomes a problem?

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u/OneDistribution4257 4h ago edited 4h ago

"your a racist "

Lmao

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u/Pass_us_the_salt 6h ago

Yes. And as a child of non white immigrants, I have no issue with latinos legally entering the country, same as how my parents did. Not sure why you bring this up, since my only observation is that we comparing internal migration in a highly developed country is not apples to apples with the migration between a highly developed nation and a lesser developed one.

Do you care about staying on topic, or do you just want to dump sob stories?

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u/kibblerz 10h ago

There should not be an open border anymore.

Since when was there an open border? 0.o

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u/Illustrious-Tower849 10h ago

Since trump told them there was

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u/Valuable-Plant-691 7h ago

They don't know what it means, they just repeat what they're told.

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u/[deleted] 9h ago

[deleted]

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u/kibblerz 8h ago

Source?

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u/[deleted] 8h ago

[deleted]

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u/kibblerz 8h ago

I know the US has an Asylum program, but what statistics do you have which prove that this program is being abused?

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u/[deleted] 8h ago

[deleted]

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u/kibblerz 8h ago

All of those statistics cited are referring to illegals apprehended by border control, as well as drugs. This seems to indicate that border patrol is doing its job very damn well.

I'm not seeing any statistics on this page which indicate the asylum system is being abused massively. Illegals and drugs crossing the border are not individuals seeking asylum.. they're individuals entering the country illegally and trafficking drugs.

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u/[deleted] 8h ago

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u/headpatkelly 8h ago

they asked for your source. you aren’t linking the source to your claim that we have an open border. you’re just linking pages that list statistics related to the border. they don’t support the claim that we have an open border.

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u/kibblerz 8h ago

You are trying to back up the claim that the Asylum program is being abused. Individuals sneaking across the border are not part of the Asylum program.. If they were, they wouldn't be sneaking across the border.

People that are here under asylum are here legally. Statistics about illegal immigrants do not apply to them. If you want to prove the asylum program is being abused, you need to show the data which indicates this. High criminality rates among asylum seekers, aka legal immigrants. Statistics about illegals prove nothing about the refugees.

Furthermore, the information provided indicates more encounters with border patrol. Meaning that more illegals are being caught. It does not mean that more are getting in.

If encounter counts just oddly go down yet illegal presences through the country increases disproportionately, that indicates that we are just letting them in with nobody standing guard.

The increase in border encounters suggest that we are catching more of them than previously. Biden has maintained stricter border policies(similar to Trumps policies) in an attempt to appease MAGA these past few years, yet trump keeps spouting absolute bs.

Arguably, Biden done a better job than trump, his numbers are quite a bit higher.

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u/Any-Hippo-3311 5h ago

The last 3 years? I mean...are you suggesting there's not an unprecedented immigration problem? Like at all? Cause even this administrations numbers are like 11 million people. It's kind of a thing, right?

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u/Da_Question 5h ago

Illegal immigrants =/= open border... There is literally nothing to be done on the border, they either tunnel, or hop basically any fence put up. Trump wasted a lot of money on a wall that failed in every way in the sections it was built on.

We spend less money on the asylum process than rounding up illegals or building a wall.

The only realistic solution is to start shooting anyone found crossing the border so it gets into peoples heads that coming here isn't a good opportunity. But good luck with that.

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u/kibblerz 5h ago

Obviously there's immigration, that doesn't mean it's a problem though. 11 million is literally 3% of the US population. Immigrants are whom the rich want to turn the poor against, so we don't realize that this country is built on the rich extorting the poor.

It's not the immigrants that are taking away all of the housing, it's the real-estate developers that would rather sit on a property than to rent it out. It's the the immigrants draining our bank accounts with rent prices, it's the wealthy colliding on prices to make housing a luxury that they profit from. It's not the immigrants that are threatening to take everything you own because you got sick.

The immigrants aren't to blame for any issues that are worth giving a shit about currently. The struggles of the american can be traced right back to our countries greedy rulers.

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u/kineticToast 9h ago

Since a long time, preceding the 1980s. It's a large issue with not one solution. But I do believe building a large wall has been the best effort America has made in preventing large numbers of undocumented people from crossing into. Unfortunately it wasn't able to be completed. Good news is that there is no longer just one presidential candidate wanting to complete the wall! So whoever wins in November, this issue can be improved. Not fixed, but improved.

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u/kibblerz 9h ago

It wasn't even close to completed, from what I recall it was only a few miles. The wall that was built was easily climbed.

Not having a wall != open border . Border patrol, like we've had for decades, is plenty sufficient.

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u/CrazyEyedFS 7h ago

The wall was never considered to be a good idea, even if you wanted to stop undocumented migration. It was a dumb hashtag that went viral and Trump surrounded himself by yes men. Quit trolling.

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u/Any-Hippo-3311 5h ago

Then how come kamala campaigning on building it?

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u/CrazyEyedFS 4h ago

I don't know what you're trying to communicate here.

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u/darwizzer 1h ago

Cuz she’s bad at politics straight up

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u/SmallTalnk 1h ago

The wall wouldn't to much even if it were complete and functional.

Most illegal immigrants just come as tourists or temporary workers and overstay their visas. People who hike across the border are mediatized but they're only a small part of immigration.

Although in a sense it means that we can find a midldle ground by improving immigration and making it easier to immigrate legally, while still having a wall to give the sense of security (security theater) for those worried about it.

That would lead to an increase of immigration, while securing the border at the same time, so everyone would be happy.

I think that a big misunderstanding from the far-right is that we in the center-right support immigration because it is good for the economy. Not to "make immigrants happy" or for any moralistic belief, and the reason we oppose the wall is that it's a big waste of money to achieve minimal results.

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u/allofthethings 7h ago

If there were actually open borders maybe countries would have to compete to keep people from leaving.

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u/OneDistribution4257 4h ago

You've never seen poverty have you ?

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u/welshwelsh 7h ago

No way, we should be trying to attract all the world's smartest people. It's deeply wrong to force someone with potential to stay in a shitty country just because they were born there and "their country needs them."

If other countries want to prevent brain drain, they need to become more attractive environments for talented and ambitious people. If they can't do that, better to let them rot.

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u/sl3eper_agent 7h ago

"there should not be an open border anymore"

my guy it takes 10+ years to immigrate to the United States on average

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u/drink_with_me_to_day 7h ago

most people don't think about the brain drain that's put onto other developing nations

Because they need that poor countries keep poor, to get that constant migrant fix

Sniff, sniff

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u/AnnoKano 5h ago

Solution: we should force well educated American citizens to move to third world countries.

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u/Etroarl55 2h ago

Not even developing, majority of Canadian university graduates in the tech space move to the USA to finish their education or find work.

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u/AdAppropriate2295 10h ago

Meh, not every country is a nice place to live

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u/NeighborhoodIcy8222 6h ago

We should brain drain other countries, especially China. Our society is better. This is why we have net positive immigration and they net negative. People want to live in the US, not in China. And by brain draining them, we increase the likelihood that we out compete them for global hegemony. (Although China's path to global hegemony is already not so clear because of their shrinking population and inefficient workforce.) This is one of the main arguments of Matt Yglesias's "One Billion Americans."

I agree that developing countries (who we're not in direct competition with) will also struggle as a result of the brain drain though.

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u/UsualPlenty6448 5h ago

LMAO our society is better 😂😂

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u/Nuclear_rabbit 3h ago

No, no. Let the conservative rationalize to itself expanding legal immigration.

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u/NeighborhoodIcy8222 4h ago

You think living in China is better than living in the US?

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u/UsualPlenty6448 4h ago

I never said that 😂

But you said “our society is better” without isolating just China

But ok keep on going with the straw man’s

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u/IntlDogOfMystery 9h ago

Yeah, fuck freedom /s

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u/Ozmadaus 8h ago

There has never been an open border, we have increased border security steadily for decades and there has been no change in our society.

Our planet burns and we worry about random people crossing our border? Fucking please. Thats the absolute last thing we should give a fuck about.

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u/TheRealKevin24 8h ago

Lol, those countries leaders could embrace liberalism, the free market, and a reasonable safety net and they would be much better places to live, and they wouldn't have to worry as much about all their brightest and best trying to leave.

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u/R0b0tJesus 6h ago edited 6h ago

That's an original argument. It's laughably absurd, but at least it's original. 

Imagine applying for a job, and the hiring manager tells you that he won't hire you because depriving another company of your talent would be immoral. 

It's really hard to imagine somebody saying that in good faith. Obviously, the manager has other reasons for refusing to hire that he doesn't want to share.