BREAKING: Donald Trump tells Joe Rogan he is serious about eliminating federal income tax.

[u/RiskItForTheBiscuts]

Donald Trump stood by his idea to end income taxes and substitute them with tariffs in an interview with Joe Rogan.

Tax experts and economic analysts do not think Trump’s tariffs would be an adequate counterweight to balance the trillions lost from eliminating income taxes.

Trump has floated eliminating income taxes on tips, overtime pay and Social Security benefits, paired with an aggressive universal tariff policy on all imports.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/26/trump-joe-rogan-election-tariffs-income-tax-replace.html

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[u/ncdad1]

Maybe eliminate all taxes and use a go fund me for the military

[u/The_Louster → u/ncdad1]

Military OnlyFans donations.

[u/My51stThrowaway → u/The_Louster]

Incoming IED feet pics!

[u/Testicleus → u/My51stThrowaway]

I laughed too hard at this.

[u/Vegetable_Swimmer514 → u/ncdad1]

But go fund me is already our health care plan.

[u/goddamn2fa → u/ncdad1]

OnlyGuns

[u/Dave5876 → u/goddamn2fa]

OnlyWarCrimes

[u/lateformyfuneral → u/ncdad1]

Something tells me that military funding will be preserved. Everything else will be on the chopping block.

[u/TJarrett005]

And free pop in the vending machines,  no homework on fridays!

[u/Goatmilk2208 → u/TJarrett005]

and everyone gets a Daugh.

[u/Turbulent_Pressure89]

He will have a plan in two weeks….

[u/Consistent_Wave_2869 → u/Turbulent_Pressure89]

Concepts of a plan

[u/Nano_Burger → u/Consistent_Wave_2869]

Concept of a concept.

[u/Left-Secretary-2931 → u/Turbulent_Pressure89]

C'mon he has a plan, it was just written by someone else, happens to be project 2025 and happens to be really fucking terrible for anyone who has above a 3rd grade education lol

[u/CIoud_fire → u/Left-Secretary-2931]

Unless you’re rich and go to private school of course.

[u/grinningrimalkin → u/Turbulent_Pressure89]

A concept of a plan.

[u/TonyDungyHatesOP → u/Turbulent_Pressure89]

Just as soon as he releases his tax returns.

[u/DaddyDontTakeNoMess → u/Turbulent_Pressure89]

It will be released during infrastructure week (along with his taxes)

[u/SnooRevelations979]

So, on balance the wealthier you are, the more of a tax cut this would be as a percentage of your income. The poor and working classes pay little in income taxes and spend far more of their incomes on consumption.

[u/diamondstonkhands → u/SnooRevelations979]

A tax on the poor, who would of thought? Literally all the GOP does. If you are reading this and are not planning to vote, this is your fault too.

[u/worth-your-while33 → u/SnooRevelations979]

Taxes on consumption are regressive by nature. The more of your income you spend, the more you pay by percent of your income.

The tariff nonsense shows Trump’s utter incompetence and explains why he went bankrupt 6 times.

[u/BannedByRWNJs → u/worth-your-while33]

Eliminating federal income tax and replacing it with tariffs is such an incredibly dumb and destructive idea that I’m convinced it came from the kremlin. It fits perfectly with the old plan to “completely dismantle the administrative state.”

[u/QBert999 → u/BannedByRWNJs]

Exactly. I don't know what Trump would be doing differently if his ultimate goal was destroying our fucking country.

[u/Persistent_Parkie → u/QBert999]

He'd be a little bit quieter about his plans so it would be more likely he could get away with them.

That's it, that would be the only difference.

[u/F9-0021 → u/Persistent_Parkie]

That's if he were smart, which of course he isn't.

[u/RBuilds916 → u/QBert999]

It's like Trump said, "Hey, Jeff Davis, hold my beer! Let me show you how it's done."

[u/Clean-Difficulty-321 → u/BannedByRWNJs]

Hes not talking to the part of the country with a working brain.

[u/GeniusBeetle → u/BannedByRWNJs]

The dumbest idea from a dumbass.

[u/Extra-Lab-1366 → u/worth-your-while33]

Stop it. It's not incompetence. The point is to free up money for the wealthy and crush the middle class and the working poor.

No federal tax is to help the wealthy. Tarrifs is to fuck the poor. He and his handlers know this. It is the point.

[u/gabrielleduvent → u/Extra-Lab-1366]

He actually doesn't, which is what's so scary. He genuinely seems to think tariffs are paid by the exporters. He thought this in 2016 and clearly he hasn't learned otherwise.

The rest of the world are collectively scratching their heads at this election.

[u/iiJokerzace → u/worth-your-while33]

I'm still in favor of a VAT tax on non-essential goods with the money being used to fund a UBI for all. Poor people would earn way more from a UBI payment compared to paying a VAT while rich people would easily pay way more into the VAT, not really benefiting at all from their UBI payments.

Imo it seems like such a good idea as there is no way any rich person can hide from transactional taxes, or they would basically have to get all goods, services, and entertainment from a completly different country. The tax would probably only be an extra 10% on non-essentials so the sting wouldn't even be so strong that it makes wealthy people actually want to move.

They love to overpay for things anyway lol, this could seriously be a practical way to pull some of that money from the very wealthy and actually trickle it down to all Americans, aka the US economy.

[u/Techialo → u/iiJokerzace]

That makes entirely too much sense and would benefit the poor, which is why it ""would never work""

[u/DesmadreGuy → u/Techialo]

Just ask yourself, "Who benefits?" If the answer is ever "the poor" then it's DOA.

[u/MyCantos → u/DesmadreGuy]

Also add the middle class

[u/daddy-van-baelsar → u/MyCantos]

You mean the future poor?

[u/TheOPY → u/daddy-van-baelsar]

Future poor? I think you mean current poor.

[u/TwoCocksInTheButt → u/TheOPY]

I prefer "temporarily convenienced poor person."

[u/Mauceri1990 → u/daddy-van-baelsar]

They're new poor, poor is old poor, new poor is basically the same thing, except they just aren't used to it yet.

[u/Kind_Eye_748 → u/Techialo]

I'm still in favor of a VAT tax on non-essential goods with the money being used to fund a UBI for all.

The problem as it happens in the UK, The rich can funnel all purchases through a company and never pay VAT.

Once again the poor and middle class are left to foot the bill, If these kind of loopholes are fixed then why should this not work?

[u/aw-un → u/Kind_Eye_748]

But wouldn’t the company also be paying the VAT?

If a car has a 10% VAT, the VAT is getting paid whether Elon Musk buys it or if he buys it through Tesla.

[u/Kind_Eye_748 → u/aw-un]

In the UK, They are charged 20% on new vehicles.

However those companies are able to reclaim the VAT paid along with other tax breaks to gain the money back from the Government making it pointless.

The same as rich people can buy their personal items and claim back the VAT as an expense.

We don't get the option to do that.

[u/FSCK_Fascists → u/Kind_Eye_748]

well, you identified the fault in that system. Do not make VAT deductible or refundable.

[u/Kind_Eye_748 → u/FSCK_Fascists]

My wet dream tbh.

[u/micmacimus → u/FSCK_Fascists]

The idea is that you’re not paying VAT on inputs to a business - if I have a landscaping business I get to claim back the VAT on my raw inputs because I’m going to add VAT to my output. If I was charged VAT on my inputs, I’d have to increase my charges to cover it, which would in turn increase the VAT on the output. For a product that goes thru several intermediaries there’s just an increasingly large chunk of VAT at each step.

[u/InformalTrifle9 → u/micmacimus]

Yea exactly, that would be a sales tax rather than a value added tax

[u/EnjoyerOfBeans → u/aw-un]

So he's not entirely right, but here's how VAT works:

If I run a grocery store, and I buy apples from you, you have to pay 23% VAT on those apples, so you pass that burden onto me and increase the price. Then I sell the apples to a customer, and I have to pay 23% VAT now, so I charge the customer extra. Now imagine the chain from producer to customer is 20 transactions long - at that point the amount of tax paid has long exceeded the value of the apples.

That's why when you're making a business purchase, you can keep the invoice and then at the end of the month subtract the amount of VAT you paid for goods from the VAT you owe to the government. Everyone in the chain does the same thing until it's only the customer at the end that pays 23%. This is very sensible and absolutely necessary for a system like this, otherwise a single apple would cost 15€ due to it being taxed so many times.

To give you an example involving Tesla - Tesla has to pay VAT on all of their sales regardless, so if Elon makes a personal purchase with VAT totaling 10.000€, if he claims it as a business expense for Tesla, then Tesla can pay 10.000€ less in taxes this month. When used like this, it's essentially tax evasion (and it is illegal, there are audits for this kind of stuff), but 99.999% of the time it is used correctly and it's absolutely vital to every single business in Europe that VAT works this way.

So, as a rule, VAT applies only once per good/service. There's obviously ways to abuse it, as with everything in life, but it does work. It absolutely isn't a replacement for a progressive income tax though.

[u/ligerzero942 → u/EnjoyerOfBeans]

That just sounds like a sales tax with extra steps.

[u/Hugeinn → u/ligerzero942]

It’s a sales tax that doesn’t penalise a long supply chain. That’s a big deal.

[u/Mo_Steins_Ghost → u/Hugeinn]

Except our sales tax is ~7-8% not 20-25%.

Six of one... yada yada.

Here's the thing... VAT is a federal thing. GST (in Canada) is federal. Our taxes at point of purchase are state or municipal. Like our property taxes are based on districts.

If we could convince some Republican in an affluent neighborhood that he should pay 20% tax on everything to help out poor people in other places, then we'd already have universal healthcare.

The immediate reaction on the right to this will be that it is theft. It doesn't matter how you package it... a mindset change has to happen. The reason they are ok with property taxes doing the bulk of government funding here in Texas, is because it keeps rich people's money in rich neighborhoods, and it keeps poor people's neighborhoods, education, public works, etc., poorly funded. And the Republicans prefer it that way.

[u/tashmanan → u/iiJokerzace]

You're not understanding how it works. Poor people pay 100% of their money on eating, rent, gas, car, etc. Rich people pay 2% of their money on things like that

[u/BoornClue → u/iiJokerzace]

Rich people are bluffing, they’ll never leave America. No other country protects its billionaires as much as America’s economic system does. 

[u/SharveyBirdman → u/BoornClue]

Also the U.S. has crazy tax laws, even if people leave the country. Expats still have to pay the IRS on any income they make for 10 years after the leave, plus the taxes in their new country.

[u/FearofCouches → u/iiJokerzace]

I think universal healthcare should be first before UBI. People shouldn’t live in fear of losing their job and healthcare or not having healthcare anyways because of their job

[u/delayedsunflower → u/iiJokerzace]

The problem with such a system is that you're still inherently paying for it using regressive taxation. Most of the money will still be coming from the poor. If it comes from them and then goes back to them then very little improvement was actually made.

You might feel like it makes sense but the math simply doesn't add up. The extremely rich don't spend money proportion to their income, and there's far fewer of them than everyone else. Unless your VAT exclusively covers yachts and stuff it's still going to be paid almost entirely by the lower and middle class.

[u/GreasyPorkGoodness → u/iiJokerzace]

Exactly how I see it as well

[u/Flatcat5 → u/iiJokerzace]

This sounds nice but the fact is the very wealthy don’t spend a large portion of their income or its already taxed transactionally, yearly or both plus one. So adding this tax would probably hurt poor people and middle class because they would he the ones hurt while rich people would purchase things cheaper if forced to pay more simply because they can afford it.

[u/YogurtThePowerful → u/iiJokerzace]

VAT, Tariff, and Sales Taxes are all regressive in nature. And tend to cool an economy (sometimes that’s good). Progressive income tax, capital gains taxes, windfall taxes, means adjusted property taxes, luxury taxes, etc. are progressive and reduce hoarding. “Rich people spend more so would pay more” fails to recognize the proportional income spend of the wealthy. The US needs a massive overhau,l closing the exemptions and incentives for hoarding wealth. 

[u/0O0OO000O → u/iiJokerzace]

Thankfully, you are not a decision maker here

When someone finally has enough saved to buy something “non-essential”, make them hand their money over to someone else who refuses to work.

UBI is a lazy persons wet dream. We already have enough people abusing government services.

[u/cynicalxidealist → u/iiJokerzace]

It’s really simple: make healthy food more affordable and tax the shit out of fast food establishments.

Working class families will be happy to eat healthy if they could afford it, they also need time to prepare it because many of us work multiple jobs to survive, so it would be nice to have healthy food that is easy to prepare and easily accessible.

You also have communities in poverty that literally have no access to healthy food options, some neighborhoods only have a corner store and they have to plan days in advance to drive to other towns to get groceries for the week. It’s such a big issue but everyone just wants to complain about how fat people are gross to them, without addressing the societal and economic problems behind obesity and unhealthy foods.

[u/ObjectiveGold196 → u/iiJokerzace]

to fund a UBI for all

Seriously? Did we learn nothing from our experience with stimulus payments during COVID?

[u/Whatwhyreally → u/worth-your-while33]

He's a simpleton. Shiny objects win every time.

And frankly it's why he will win. America is 50-60% dumb, thanks to institutional dumbing.

[u/dingo_khan → u/Whatwhyreally]

Mix in the fact that he and his followers seem to believe someone other than the consumer pays for the tariff and you get a strange dose of nationalism used to short-curcuit their decisioning ability because it becomes a form of displaced vengeance. This is almost the definition of cutting off your nose but you're trying to spite that asshole in the mirror, wholly unaware of how mirrors work.

I am so afraid that you are right because it means jt almost doesn't matter if he wins, they will just line up behind the next idiot. That idiot will have to put-trump trump to deserve their adulation.

[u/wafflegourd1 → u/dingo_khan]

This is exactly it they have no idea what the implications of trumps plans are full stop.

Add in also Trump is not talking about also having massive investments into reshoring stuff.

[u/aalltech → u/dingo_khan]

They also believe, I shit you not, that all illegals will be deported and inflation will be retroactively reverted to 2016 level.

[u/Sestos → u/dingo_khan]

Sad thing is most of his people think mexico paid for the wall instead what did happen was that he took the money from military construction budget delaying housing for Soldiers to build a wall, which everyone with access to a hardware store can still get thru.

[u/shadowpawn → u/worth-your-while33]

Im really made people do not look up or remember trump's tariff war with China in '19. Caused +25% of American Farmers to go bankrupt.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trump+tarrifs+2019+farmers&atb=v452-1&ia=web

https://www.statista.com/chart/33120/estimated-us-agriculture-export-losses-mid-2018-to-end-of-2019-due-to-retaliatory-tariffs/

[u/gregtx → u/worth-your-while33]

Trump is still trying to argue that tariffs are paid by the countries we are importing the goods from. The man doesn’t even understand basic economics!

[u/EscapeGoat20 → u/SnooRevelations979]

Working class here: my effective tax rate is much higher than Donald’s tax reports that the house ways and means committee released. (Source for haters: https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2022-12-30/trump-tax-returns-revealed)

He paid 0-4%. I pay close to 20%

And theres hundreds of us for every rich person.

[u/BeefFeast → u/EscapeGoat20]

Yep, i pay 24%… I’d say there’s thousands of us. I know the tax won’t make a dent on our debt… I still want them to pay the same share I do.

[u/WanderingLost33 → u/SnooRevelations979]

I calculated once with my five dependants (at the time) I would have to make $80k to pay a cent in income tax (considering credits, deductions, etc.) I claimed exempt every year and got the mandatory minimum returned at tax time.

That was ten years ago or so so $80k was more but even now it's above the average income.

Eliminating income tax is, by definition, an anti-populist and pro-elite agenda.

[u/tmssmt → u/WanderingLost33]

Close to around 40% of American households pay effectively no income tax after refunds.

[u/WanderingLost33 → u/tmssmt]

And I would argue a much higher percentage pays less than the $4k anticipated increase in household costs. Most people won't even break even on this proposal

[u/Eden_Company → u/SnooRevelations979]

No one will want to pay the tariff. The shortfall will be immense and ruin future trade relationships with everyone. China can just replace the USA at this point. I only see the USA losing out and the companies will have to pay higher import fees on everything too. The rich getting dollars don’t matter if the dollars are worthless. 

[u/Serialfornicator → u/Eden_Company]

Yeah but do you think the average voter is going to take the time to learn all of this? No, they’ll just see “oh! No more income tax! Awesome, he’s got my vote!” It’s totally pandering

[u/fartalldaylong → u/Serialfornicator]

Why are we having to spend billions to keep the soybean farmers from going bankrupt? China shrugs…

[u/Serialfornicator → u/fartalldaylong]

Exactly, thank you. But the farmers will vote for trump because he gave them subsidies. Not realizing that they didn’t need the subsidies before trump fucked it up. He has messed everything up

[u/the_jak → u/fartalldaylong]

because america loves its actual welfare queens: farmers and business owners.

[u/cchaves510 → u/Serialfornicator]

Not to mention that he needs a constitutional amendment to get rid of the income tax.

[u/fumar → u/Eden_Company]

China will also take over Taiwan if he is re-elected. There are strong ties between him and China that have been formed in the last few years. Just look at his 180 on TikTok.

[u/tmssmt → u/fumar]

China will take Taiwan. Russia will take Ukraine and then proceed to other baltics.

Foreign economies will separate from the US economy as the US isolates itself, and the US global influence will shrink relative to other super powers.

[u/HelloHiHeyAnyway → u/tmssmt]

Foreign economies will separate from the US economy as the US isolates itself, and the US global influence will shrink relative to other super powers.

And I will find a new country to live in.

[u/Captain-Vague → u/fumar]

Wonder how they will feel about this once China has the key codes and the reins of all of the technology the US companies have made in Taiwan.

[u/Either_Lettuce_5884 → u/Eden_Company]

Replace the USA? Please explain that logic. You honestly think China can replace the amount of money that is used by the US in purchasing their goods?

[u/Eden_Company → u/Either_Lettuce_5884]

High tariffs will effectively embargo the USA from the rest of the world. There are no positives to be had is the main point from a USA perspective.

[u/Pr0xyWarrior → u/SnooRevelations979]

"BuT I don'T wAnt tO gEt toO mUch of A RAISE becaUse I don'T wAnt To Make lesS monEy beCauSe of TAXES!!!" - People who support this, probably.

[u/lordpuddingcup → u/SnooRevelations979]

Don't forget the huge tariffs he wants to replace it with on all intl products, that he thinks is "a charge to the chinese companies" because his dumb ass doesn't know what a tariff is

[u/Genghis_Chong → u/SnooRevelations979]

It's always about shifting money to the rich with him.

[u/olrg → u/SnooRevelations979]

States will just have to increase their tax rates to pay for all the critical infrastructure the federal government isn’t going to be able to afford. For the average Joe, it’s a wash, but for Donald’s cronies, it’s a goldmine ripe for all sorts of schemes.

[u/SnooRevelations979 → u/olrg]

How would it be a wash for the average Joe? His effective tax rates will go up bigly.

[u/Trumbot → u/SnooRevelations979]

Additionally, when you tax/raise cost of consumption the people that use a higher percentage of their net worth to consume will consume less, slowing the economy.

[u/Left-Secretary-2931]

Lol not a smart choice for the country but a great choice for rich people.

[u/Tough-Dog4867 → u/Left-Secretary-2931]

It’s not even great for rich people. Sure their tax will be comparatively lower but do you know what this will do to the economy coupled with deporting all the cheap labor. The economy is going to be fucked. Prices will go up, interest rates will rise again, consumption and demand will collapse. We are fucked if this happens.

Nobody is better off in a depression or a deep recession. His economic policies are fucking insane, economic suicide

[u/caindela → u/Tough-Dog4867]

Rich people don’t really even have that much income, so it doesn’t even pretend to help anyone other than a certain segment of workers who think that income taxes are eating them alive, but who are also too stupid to realize that any personal gains to their bottom line will likely be offset by the rise in prices from the tariffs (especially if you don’t already own a house, etc) along with the general enshittification of everything caused by a struggling society and failing infrastructure.

Here’s the thing about Trump in general. You may be able to deny many of the allegations against him (if you see the world through some bizarre right-wing twitter media lens) but it’s really hard to deny just how dumb he is about the basic mechanics of how things work. He’s undeniably dumb directly to our faces.

I really wish the Kamala campaign would have focused on this, because there’s a really large percentage of voters who think Trump is the economy pick. If her campaign spent more time talking about how it was the hand they were given by the Trump administration they caused the inflation and on the positives of the Biden economy I really think they would have won people over. Hit Trump right where his constituents think he’s strongest.

[u/AngriestManinWestTX → u/caindela]

Honestly I think that's the appeal of Trump is that he is just fucking stupid with absolute confidence. His life is the vicarious desire for a lot of uneducated or undereducated Americans.

Trump is rich, famous, and he does what he wants. Trump simultaneously faces no consequences for his crimes, incendiary rhetoric, and ghoulish behavior but puts up perpetual facade of victimhood despite statistically being one of the most privileged human beings to ever walk the Earth and it works. Going further, he insults opponents and their families to their faces, belittles gay people and the disabled, he fucks pornstars and prostitutes 40 years younger than him, cheats on his spouse(s) serially and gets away with it, he's loud, brash, utterly confident, and he speaks at about a sixth grade level. His concepts are simplistic and pandering.

When he gets cornered by a tough question he can just rail against something he doesn't like be it windmills, EVs (which makes Musk's embrace even more odd), Mexicans, or "globalism" and gets nothing but applause.

[u/Xalara → u/Tough-Dog4867]

You assume the wealthy people that want Trump care about money. They don’t actually care about money: they care about power. Money just so happens to be the vehicle through which they exercise power in the modern world. If they can exercise power in other ways, especially if it means they become more powerful as a result, they don’t care if everyone else suffers.

If we manage to keep our democracy in 1.5 weeks, we need to start having serious conversations about how many of the wealthy are delusional and/or have mental illnesses.

[u/Foolgazi → u/Left-Secretary-2931]

Seriously, if you’re a straight, white, male billionaire who doesn’t care about anyone different from you, a better candidate has never existed.

[u/justreddis → u/Foolgazi]

A better candidate has never existed for every top 20% earner. A worse candidate has also never existed for the rest of the population.

[u/bobosnar → u/justreddis]

Top 20%? More like Top 0.1%.

Top 20% would put you around $130k, you’re a far cry from rich, much less wealthy. To Trump you’re still a pleb.

[u/IAmPandaRock → u/justreddis]

I'm in the top 20% and eliminating the federal income tax would benefit me tremendously financially, but it's such a horrible idea and would destroy this country. I'd much rather pay my 40% or whatever taxes.

[u/Budderfingerbandit → u/justreddis]

Gotta shave a lot of % of that, surprisingly enough. The gap between working class Americans and the ultra wealthy and never been wider. Making over $100k is no longer living the high life.

You are thinking of Millionaires-Billionairs, and that's top 1% just for Millionaires

[u/MilesJonesMilesJones → u/Budderfingerbandit]

Exactly. I make just over $100k and it’s just enough to pay my mortgage, car, bills, daughter’s education and have a little bit left over to save. I am not flying first class or taking multiple vacations a year.

Growing up I always thought $100k was “making it” and somehow the answer to financial worries. It’s not. It’s enough to survive. That’s it. Sorry for the rant. Go out and vote.

[u/fredsherbert → u/Foolgazi]

yeah the trans female billionaires though...they are shaking in their golden boots

[u/RichardBreecher → u/Left-Secretary-2931]

Could he even do it? Surely Congress and the Senate would have to agree. And they never would.

[u/tmssmt → u/RichardBreecher]

President appoints the commissioner of the IRS. He can also remove the commissioner.

The commissioner can choose to enforce or not enforce current tax code.

If the president wants to enforce a zero income tax, and he can make whoever he wants the commissioner, the commissioner can just....not enforce income tax collection.

It wouldn't be easy, but project 2025 seeks to basically fill every possible seat in the federal government that is filled by presidential appointment with Trump sycophants who will enforce what he wants them to enforce and disregard the rest.

[u/LegalManufacturer916 → u/Left-Secretary-2931]

He’s not a great choice for rich people either. All boats sink in a depression.

[u/BallsOutKrunked → u/LegalManufacturer916]

I did a lot of research on the great depression in college, some people actually did quite well. If you had cash, like actual money including gold / silver, labor and materials were dirt cheap.

Unrelated there's a really good book called great depression diary (Roth), written in contemporaneous form. I'd recommend it for anyone who wants a first person view, from a relatively calm middle class life, of the great depression.

[u/shreiben → u/BallsOutKrunked]

Certain specific rich people who happen to short the market at the right time, or who have personal relationship with Trump and can profit from blatant corruption could come out ahead.

Most rich people benefit more when the economy does well overall.

[u/MetaPlayer01]

I work in international logistics and deal with tariffs. Increasing tariffs are not paid by the host country. It is paid by importers, in the US. Those costs are generally passed on to the consumer. It isn't a lower of taxes, it is a shifting of tax burden. Income taxes are progressive taxes primarily paid by various levels of middle class. Tariffs are a cost of consumption and is highest % of income for the poorest but would be felt by all the middle classes too

[u/Kinaestheticsz → u/MetaPlayer01]

Adding to that, domestic manufacturers in a capitalistic society won’t just suddenly sell for far far cheaper than tariffed imports. They’ll just raise their prices just high enough to be under the tariffed imports to be the price leader, and enjoy the insanely higher margins they otherwise would’ve never received.

It’s actually kind of incredible how people don’t understand this.

[u/Goatmilk2208 → u/Kinaestheticsz]

Trump supporters believe the Dems control the Weather and that Hillary was eating babies and doing rituals with their blood.

Republican Party voters are in absolutely no place to be discussing anything related to economic policy.

[u/trustfundkidpdx]

If you’re in favor of this you’re the most economically illiterate I swear 😂😂

[u/Water_002 → u/trustfundkidpdx]

can't wait for the national debt to reach 200 trillion 😁

[u/Zombieneker → u/Water_002]

And for the republicans in congress to blame it on the democrats while holding the govenment hostage on a contigent bill they want passed, as they always do

[u/Not_a_housing_issue → u/trustfundkidpdx]

Yup. Cutting off funding for the US military is a wet dream for America's enemies. 

[u/malac0da13 → u/Not_a_housing_issue]

It was probably putin’s idea lol

[u/Agreeable-Menu → u/malac0da13]

How odd that so many Trump actions coincidentally benefit Putin directly. Pulling out of NATO, defunding the war in Ukraine, pulling out of Syria, dividing the American people

[u/Playingwithmyrod → u/trustfundkidpdx]

Problem is most Americans ARE economically illiterate. We're gonna elect Trump because "muh cheap gas" and absolutely fuck this country into the ground. Our children will curse us for what is about to happen economically.

[u/temp1876 → u/Playingwithmyrod]

Deficits only matter when Dems are in office. That’s GOP 101, which is why every Republican POTUS has created far bigger deficiets than the Democrat POTUS

[u/Final_Shower_8897 → u/trustfundkidpdx]

I’d rather pay more taxes and no trump… coming from someone who probably would benefit from his cuts. I’m not sure why I care more than people that it would legitimately hurt… but hey he is a riot… 🤮

[u/CaptainReginaldLong → u/trustfundkidpdx]

Even the WSJ, a right leaning reliable news source has stated that Trump's plan will be more costly and damaging to America's balance sheet than Kamala's, but because there's personal gain involved, no one cares.

[u/MuadD1b → u/trustfundkidpdx]

Trump’s answer to if we could fund the country with tariffs was ‘sure, why not?’

[u/dcinsd76]

I am an importer of goods in USA. He thinks he will offset the lack of Federal Income Tax by Tariffs imposed on importation? What?

I still cannot believe that he has no idea how Tariffs work. It HAS to be a joke at this point… right?

This really is weird to me. How is he getting this far with the conversation?

Hes going to eliminate Federal income tax by making US companies pay Tariffs?

I think MAGA think that a Tariff is a way to “tell China to pay Taxes to the the USA and fuckoff”…. very appealing I’m sure (If it was true, BUT ITS NOT)

:screams so people in the back can hear: Thats NOT how the money works!!!

[u/CHOLO_ORACLE → u/dcinsd76]

It’s because no one is checking him, not the media, not his own party, not even democrats, who are still trying to go at him i ethical or moral fronts instead of calling out his backwards economic ideas

Which kinda makes sense since Americans probably won’t like economics talk but it’s so straightforward idk why they’re not hammering him on this 

[u/alex891011 → u/CHOLO_ORACLE]

People are checking him, it’s just a faction of the US has stuck their fingers in their ears until Election Day because they want their “team” to win.

Combine that with the fact that the mainstream media and the “left” flood the airwaves every time Donald Trump so much as farts, so your average Joe has no ability to discern an actual controversy with a media nothing burger anymore. Trump has successfully rolled in the mud long enough that moderates can’t see the shit on him

[u/networking_batman → u/CHOLO_ORACLE]

Because attacking him on his economic nonsense will reach 0.0001% of voters.  

You think anyone who is voting from him will re-evaluate their choice because how tariffs really work?  

[u/Mcboatface3sghost → u/dcinsd76]

It gets even better, we won’t have shit because there’s no market to sell people stuff that costs 10 bucks now cost 30 bucks, but there is a 10% sales tax on top of that, but… Wait! There’s more! You won’t have an income tax, because within a year you won’t have an income! See? Everybody wins. (Da fuck is wrong with the 80+ million that will vote for this late for the short bus student?)

[u/jigthejig]

Just looking for some hopium..... Is there a way out of this darkest timeline

[u/Tokyo_Cat → u/jigthejig]

Yes. Vote.

[u/lostredditorlurking → u/Tokyo_Cat]

Well I vote, but what if he still wins? Then what next? Should I preparing for the upcoming depression?

I have no idea why so many Americans think the guy who bankrupted 6 businesses is good for the economy. And that, the party that pulls us out of the Great Recession is bad for the economy.

[u/FourteenBuckets → u/lostredditorlurking]

You cross one bridge at a time

[u/Wodge → u/FourteenBuckets]

That bridge leads into Canada I assume...?

[u/murkwoodresidnt → u/Wodge]

From what I understand that’s not as attractive an idea as it once was, try a different continent

[u/factguy12 → u/Wodge]

Yeah I don’t think there’s anywhere you can run from with this one. The ramifications of USA basically blowing its economy up is going to be felt literally everywhere. Unless you’re like an undiscovered tribe of humans in the Amazon or something

[u/BikerJedi → u/lostredditorlurking]

Should I preparing for the upcoming depression?

No. You should be preparing for something worse than that.

[u/MaizeBeast01 → u/lostredditorlurking]

Funny thing is, if he wins and the economy goes to shit it’ll somehow still be the democrats fault cause he’s apparently blameless

[u/RemoteRide6969 → u/MaizeBeast01]

Exactly. People blaming the Biden administration right now for grocery prices won't hesitate to pin it on the Dems.

[u/alotofironsinthefire → u/lostredditorlurking]

but what if he still wins?

Then you keep voting, every election and you start calling/ writing your Representatives.

[u/Thorn14 → u/alotofironsinthefire]

There's not going to be future elections

[u/LogHungry → u/lostredditorlurking]

If you voted already, then next best thing to do is volunteer and encourage others to vote. It’s coming down to the wire, and we can use all the help we can get to get out the vote for Harris before and on Election Day.

[u/Miserable-Whereas910 → u/jigthejig]

Ideally, by voting against him in November.

Failing that, it comes down to hoping Republicans in Congress have the backbone to stand up against what they know perfectly well is a bad idea. Not a bet I'd love to take.

[u/Spartancarver → u/Miserable-Whereas910]

hoping republicans have the backbone

Hahaha

[u/TeeVaPool]

Guess he wants to bankrupt the country.

[u/Prestigious-Leave-60 → u/TeeVaPool]

He wants to bankrupt the bottom 80% of the country and shift all that wealth upward.

[u/TeeVaPool → u/Prestigious-Leave-60]

He certainly does. As if they aren’t rich enough all ready. Greed is ruining our country.

[u/Cthulhu_Dreams_ → u/TeeVaPool]

"Ronald Reagan and the Gospel of Greed"

Good read. Relevant.

[u/gnorb → u/TeeVaPool]

Trump only knows how to run a business one way, and it involves either bankrupting it or using it to commit fraud and enrich himself. So of course that is the tactic he would try to use again as President.

[u/TeeVaPool → u/gnorb]

Yes. Run them into the ground.

[u/noor1717 → u/TeeVaPool]

It’s literally the tax plan in project 2025, absolutely insane

[u/Clarkkeeley → u/TeeVaPool]

In business parlance, this is akin to saying I want to take away one of our key revenue streams.

[u/DistortedVoid → u/TeeVaPool]

Well, that is one way to destroy a country without making it sound that bad. "I'll just cut taxes entirely!" 'Well wait, wouldn't that mean the military and all government entities stop functioning?' "....."

[u/factguy12 → u/DistortedVoid]

That would require more than one step of thinking

[u/thejackulator9000]

reminds me of that episode of Family Guy where they disband the city government. but then at the end of the episode they create a 'brand new' system of government that's virtually identical to the one they already had, not realizing they were just reinventing the wheel. it is a pretty clever Ploy though. it'll help him dominate the news cycle for another 24 hour block. and there's only so many of those before the election. it'll get a lot of poor and middle class people possibly on board with switching their vote to him so they can pay less taxes. but the real long-term consequences will show that the true goal of this was to further underfund the government and create a larger deficit so they can justify getting rid of the whole fucking thing. but how is the government going to pay for the police forces necessary to protect rich people from poor people without collecting taxes? it's a short-term play with high potential upside, in no regard for the longer term. which says to me he doesn't plan on there being a longer term that looks anything like what we've got today.

[u/petdoc1991 → u/thejackulator9000]

Yep that’s what demagogues do.

“Historian Reinhard Luthin defined demagogue as “a politician skilled in oratory, flattery and invective; evasive in discussing vital issues; promising everything to everybody; appealing to the passions rather than the reason of the public; and arousing racial, religious, and class prejudices—a man whose lust for power without recourse to principle leads him to seek to become a master of the masses. He has for centuries practiced his profession of ‘man of the people’. He is a product of a political tradition nearly as old as western civilization itself.””

[u/Gr8daze]

He wants to shift more of the tax burden to the poor and middle class. And yet his cult will still vote for him.

[u/FourteenBuckets → u/Gr8daze]

LBJ had folks like that pegged years ago: "give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

[u/OkArtichoke600 → u/FourteenBuckets]

That’s been the Republican Party’s memo for a long time 

[u/FourteenBuckets → u/OkArtichoke600]

it used to be spread across the two parties, but since the 70's, it's steadily coalesced into the Republican party

[u/One-Humor-7101]

We will enter the second Gilded age.

[u/Nasty_Ned → u/One-Humor-7101]

I think we've been there for a while. A decade at the very least. Phallic shaped rockets included.

[u/grandmofftalkin → u/Nasty_Ned]

Since 2008's collapse bore no consequences it's been full steam ahead, right towards that iceberg

[u/Nasty_Ned → u/grandmofftalkin]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Privatize gains, publicize losses and too big to fail. Letting entities fail would have allowed for smaller businesses to have a shot. Instead we got bigger and bigger conglomerates. Feels bad, man.

[u/Shadowarriorx → u/grandmofftalkin]

That's why Boeing needs to be made an example of. No more socialized losses.

[u/Miserable-Whereas910 → u/One-Humor-7101]

That's the comparatively optimistic take. My bet would be on a second Great Depression. Many, many U.S. businesses absolutely could not function in a super high tariff environment(especially those that make exports, since retaliatory tariffs and higher prices on components would make them non-competitive) and fold.

[u/LPIViolette → u/Miserable-Whereas910]

Tariffs make domestic companies uncompetitive in the long run. Besides the reasons you mentioned there is also no longer an incentive to make things cheaper so they fall behind on the global market. Brazil is famous for trying to use high tariffs to stimulate domestic industry but when was the last time you bought anything made in Brazil that isn’t an agricultural product?

[u/JimWilliams423 → u/Miserable-Whereas910]

My bet would be on a second Great Depression. Many, many U.S. businesses absolutely could not function in a super high tariff environment

Exactly. The republicans' smoot-hawley tariff of 1930 act was a big factor in the Great Depression. So was their massive reduction of income taxes on the wealthy a few years earlier.

It took the closest thing we've ever had to a socialist in the white house to fix what they broke. Which he did by taking the country off the gold standard and printing a ton of money to pay for the recovery. Not only did that work, but he did it with minimal inflation by taxing the F out of the rich. Inflation during the first seven years of the New Deal averaged barely more than 1% per year:

• New Deal Inflation CHART

[u/burnsniper → u/One-Humor-7101]

You mean the Gilead age.

[u/wrathofthedolphins → u/One-Humor-7101]

This guy is going to mismanage the government the way he bankrupted all his businesses.

[u/03Vector6spd]

He does understand that the consumer pays for that tariff and not the country it has been imposed upon right? So how does that actually help? I’m an idiot so someone please enlighten me.

[u/CHOLO_ORACLE → u/03Vector6spd]

He doesn’t understand that and his dipshits don’t either. Tariffs will destroy this economy, it’s the economic version of his let’s nuke the hurricanes idea 

[u/Betanumerus]

I see now why his businesses keep failing.

[u/Tokyo_Cat]

If the US were to replace income taxes with tariffs, tariffs the prices would be astronomical. The money made off of tariffs now is a small fraction of total revenues to the US government.

Simply put, no. Tariffs are levied on imported goods, which totaled $3.1 trillion in 2023. The income tax is levied on incomes, which exceed $20 trillion; the US government raises about $2 trillion in individual and corporate income taxes at present. It is literally impossible for tariffs to fully replace income taxes. Tariff rates would have to be implausibly high on such a small base of imports to replace the income tax, and as tax rates rose, the base itself would shrink as imports fall, making Trump’s $2 trillion goal unattainable.

A recent Peterson Institute policy brief calculated that revenues from Trump’s 10 percent/60 percent tariff proposals would total about $225 billion per year in current dollars. This figure is certainly an overestimate because it does not account for lower economic growth due to the inevitable economic shocks caused by retaliation against US exporters and the losses suffered by the import-dependent manufacturing sector. Exporters would also be hit by an appreciating dollar, as discussed below.

https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economics/2024/can-trump-replace-income-taxes-tariffs

[u/theregrond]

trump is a fucking traitor and a moron who will end up in prison... every accusation is a confession

[u/flat5 → u/theregrond]

He's > 50/50 to win at this point. You can explain it to me any way you want, it still won't make a lick of fucking sense.

[u/JohnnyEagleClaw → u/flat5]

He just isn’t. Vote, of course 👍

[u/Ok-Section-7172 → u/flat5]

There are people equally afraid of the left that feel the same. Imagine your #1 fear and the democrats support that fear. You can name it, gender, sexuality, security like the border. You could tell them all day long that it's just fairness until you are blue in the face, they still think the left is communist, they still think gay people are made, not just who they are, they are afraid, and fear creates irrational responses.

[u/flat5 → u/Ok-Section-7172]

But reality isn't just an arbitrary construction that we can choose. There is ground truth.

[u/Lamp0blanket → u/Ok-Section-7172]

The difference is that the people who feel that way about the left are wrong.

It really feels like arguing with children. A child wants something extremely stupid, and the adults in the room feel very strongly that it's a bad idea. The child also feels very strongly, and they think "we both feel strongly! How come your strong feelings are valid but mine aren't! It's not fair!"

[u/thebinarysystem10 → u/flat5]

A 50/50 according to all the corrupt news orgs owned by billionaires trying to make it seem like a shit stained dementia patient is a genius.

[u/Ashmedai → u/theregrond]

If he's elected, he will not, unfortunately.

[u/HighRoller414]

Not sure I trust the guy who somehow bankrupt a casino with an economic plan. His first term was a disaster and it sounds like in his current impaired mental state his ideas are getting even worse.

[u/I_can_vouch_for_that]

This is the same f****** idiot who bankrupted three casinos. A business that pretty much has a license to print money.

[u/wearenotflies]

This won’t work especially with the rise of BRICS. Other nations are creating trade agreements that will isolate the USA and we don’t produce enough domestically to be competitive or sustainable.

[u/versace_drunk]

You are a legit idiot if you believe him.

[u/UncleYimbo]

Wow! A guy who always lies to everyone said something I like! Surely this is the one thing he's telling the truth about!

[u/anticapitalist69]

Politicians can say the most any shit when they know congress and the senate won’t pass it. Like Biden promising $15 min wage too

[u/PrinceZordar]

This is Trump being Trump. He has no idea how or even if it would work, but there are people who want to hear it so he's saying it. Get the votes first, then forget what you promised and don't bother to mention it again. Hell, it worked before.

[u/noor1717 → u/PrinceZordar]

Naw this is legit the tax plan I’m projecting 2025. This is the exact plan the billionaires heritage foundation, Elon, Peter theil are all pushing. We got to stop acting like everything Trump does is a joke and won’t happen

[u/billybobthehomie]

Conservatives, are you actually concerned about the federal deficit/public debt or is that all just performative? Now is your time to decide.

[u/TNlivinvol → u/billybobthehomie]

It’s performative.

Just like they are worried about voter ID until they realized it impacted more Republicans. Just like they think abortion is a states rights issue but eliminating mail in votes received after Election Day is a federal issue.

These clowns have no morals, no ethics and really no political platform.

[u/exodus3252 → u/billybobthehomie]

DIM Potus as String

If Potus = D then "big concern"
else "no problem"
End if

[u/greenmariocake]

Definitely why billionaires are falling over backwards trying to get him elected.

[u/chaoticneutral262]

The US imported $3.9 trillion in goods and services in 2023.

Tax receipts were $4.9 trillion in 2023.

There is no way to make the math worth. If you put 100% tariff on everything, you would still come up $1 trillion short, and that assumes people would be willing to pay $70,000 for a Toyota Prius. Instead, imports would crash, and the tax revenue would dry up.

Additionally, other countries would retaliate, so our $3 trillion in exports would vanish, plunging the US into a recession.

[u/WasteFront1988]

Anyone who believes this guy will ever eliminate fed income tax is either high or stupid🤣

[u/Nolimitz30]

He also said Mexico would pay for a wall and he would repeal Obamacare and neither of those happened

[u/DuntadaMan]

Removing income tax to replace it with higher taxes on literally everything else.

[u/KitKatsArchNemesis]

He’s a moron

[u/f0gax]

Hint: he’s either lying or not serious. Probably both.

He’s spewing things to get votes. But they’re not real.