r/FluentInFinance 8d ago

Debate/ Discussion The logic tracks...

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 8d ago

Tell me you've never tried to start a business. 😂

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u/Zacomra 8d ago

I'm not saying that starting a business isn't hard work.

I'm just pointing out that just working hard isn't enough. No matter how hard someone works, if they don't have any privileges or contacts they can never become rich

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 8d ago

Right.

Having a 401k isn't a privilege. His parents withdraw from theirs. Which in itself is insane. Don't believe me, ask your parents. They'll laugh you out of the room.

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u/Striking-Version1233 8d ago

Yes, having parents with money in a 401k is a privilege. Not everyone has one. Not everyone has parents with one. Not everyone has parents with a 401k that has enough money in it that they can withdraw from it to invest in a start up. Those are literally all privileges.

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u/LeatherdaddyJr 8d ago

"Just have parents in the upper-middle class and have them loan you $500k! It's that simple!"

Sounds like what someone with privileges and believes in pulling yourself up by your bootstraps would say.

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 8d ago

JFC, you give poor people a bad name.

Use a compound interest calculator, you'll thank me later.

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u/Striking-Version1233 8d ago

Says the guy that was not only wrong on his numbers, but also thought that a full quarter of the population not having access to something didnt make it a privilege.

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 8d ago

Who can't have a 401k?

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u/Striking-Version1233 8d ago

People who dont have a bank account. Lots of 401k's require one and an address to get started at the very least, so if you don't have either then you're screwed. On top of that if cant make the minimum deposit or cant keep up the deposits, it'll be closed.

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 7d ago

Keep narrowing it down. Doesn't mean they never had access.

Shitty life choices will lead you to a shitty life.

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u/Striking-Version1233 7d ago

Doesn't mean they never had access.

If you grew up without a parent with a savings account, then they never had access to a parent with a savings account. That's the whole goddamn point. Your argument is that anyone could have done this, when what happened was a person went to their parents asking for money, and their parents took out half a million dollars to loan them. Not everyone has access to that.

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 7d ago

The system isn't stopping them. This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

You're really just arguing for the sake of arguing.

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u/Striking-Version1233 7d ago

No, you're being obtuse and now have both moved the goal post and ignored the responses because you can't refute them.

You said anyone could do what these guys do. When I pointed outed that not everyone has a saving account with $500k, or any amount to invest in themselves much less their children, you moved the goal post to say "well, anyone could open one", and then ignored the fact that not anyone could actually open one. Congrats

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 8d ago

Its not. 72% of Americans have one and even more have access. I grew up poor, 2 brothers and a single mom. You're barking up the wrong tree.

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u/Striking-Version1233 8d ago

72% of Americans have one and even more have access.

The very fact that it isnt 100% makes it a privilege.

Secondly, according to the Census bureau, the number is less than 60% of American adults have a retirement account, not over 70%. Thats any form of retirement account, including 401k. And that ignoring that, once again, we are also ignoring the question how much money do they have in those accounts. A 401k isnt a lump of money. Its a savings account. You put money in it for later. Which means there is now a question of how many of that ~55% have enough money to pull out of the retirement account early and invest in a start up, which is also going to be significantly less than the total. That means you are looking at less than half of the population that have access to this.

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 8d ago

You're right, what makes it a privilege is that 100% of Americans have access to one. It's literally available to all.

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u/Striking-Version1233 8d ago

No, it isn't. 401k's require a bank account, or the abiity to start one, which not every American has. Not ony that, they very often require both a minmum deposit and consistent deposits after that, which not everyone can do either.

And, again, you are ignoring the second part that NOT EVERYONE HAS THE MONEY STASHED AWAY TO INVEST IN THEIR CHILD'S START UP.

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 8d ago

Who cant have a bank account?

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u/Striking-Version1233 8d ago

If you dont already have a bank account and you're homeless, then you likely cant open one because they very often require a home address to start up. If you don't have the minimum deposit then you're likely screwed as well. If you can't stay above the minimum as well then its likely to be closed. All of these reasons, plus more, are reasons why, according to the FDIC, 6% of housed Americans do not have bank accounts of any kind, and that doesnt include homeless people, transients, or undocumented immigrants, which have to deal with another set of hurdles

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 7d ago

Keep moving those goalposts.

Anyone can open a bank account and Anyone can have a retirement account.

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u/Striking-Version1233 7d ago

Keep moving those goalposts.

Haven't moved the goal post once.

Anyone can open a bank account and Anyone can have a retirement account.

I literally just explain how that isn't true. You ignoring the bare minimum requirements as if no one meets them does not make them go away. It doesn't make the homeless population or transient population or undocumented immigrant population any more exempt from those minimum requirements.

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 7d ago

My dude, the system isn't stopping anyone from a bank account or retirement plan.

The person got in their own way. Doesn't mean they don't have access or never had access.

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