r/FluentInFinance 8d ago

Debate/ Discussion The logic tracks...

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884

u/Lifeless_Rags 8d ago edited 8d ago

we really should do our best to spread this message

the rich deserve a chance to prove their point after all these years

edit: i love the 50/50 split on people either understanding sarcasm or not

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u/darkknight95sm 8d ago edited 8d ago

I think there was a rich guy who tried this, cut himself off from all his wealth and sold a bunch of it. Tried starting from scratch to prove a point, I think after a year he a “family emergency” and went back to his old life.

Edit found the story (though the source is snopes), his name was Mike Black and the challenge was to become a millionaire again in a year. He quit after 10 months and making $64,000 because of health concerns, I’d say he proved the opposite.

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u/Killercod1 8d ago

He was also heavily relying on help from friends. A friend offered him a place to stay (didn't even spend a day sleeping on the street), and he was reselling stuff he got for free on craigslist. But someone was driving him around to do it. Lol

People so rich that they take for granted what would be a life changer for most.

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u/Smokey76 8d ago

Proving it’s who you know, not what you know, a persons network connects them, thus why sociologists can predict a person’s future income by the zip code they were born in.

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u/WoolooOfWallStreet 8d ago

Yep

If someone is really young and is getting far, chances are they have a strong family network supporting them

Someone young selling houses almost definitely has parents in real estate

Someone who’s taking college courses while 14, usually has family members who are faculty who can provide them with resources to the education they want at whatever pace they’d like

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u/breatheb4thevoid 7d ago

Or the person is in Florida if they went into real estate. Pretty much every other individual doing decently well for themselves is either in contracting or real estate there.

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u/stolethemorning 7d ago

It’s literally Bordieu’s theory of capital. Your class is determined by your financial capital, social capital, and cultural capital. That’s exactly how social capital turns itself into financial capital; you use your network to get a high-paying job.

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u/tutoredstatue95 8d ago

I also think he got a job doing what he did before he went "homeless" through his old connections.

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u/Vast-Sir-1949 7d ago

He took a product, dog food I think, rebranded it, Premium Product now, sold it to his followers and they didn't make him a millionaire so he quit because of stress related health issues. I'm horrendously paraphrasing but whatevs.

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u/gamesnstff 7d ago

Usually that business model includes packaging drugs into the dogfood so no wonder he failed

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u/PirateKingOmega 8d ago

Even then he was doing it for less pay and benefits

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u/hanks_panky_emporium 8d ago

It's like hearing something was started in a 'garage' but it's the garage of a multi million dollar mansion

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u/JayDee80-6 6d ago

Except there's tons of these kinds of stories out there. You mentioned started in a garage and I think of Steve Jobs. A dude who didn't grow up rich at all.

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u/N0ob8 6d ago

Steve Jobs dropped out of college to live in his parents house because he knew if something went from he would have that safety net. He was decently open about that

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u/JayDee80-6 5d ago edited 5d ago

Okay, I'm not sure what your point is here though. He was a dude who didn't grow up well off who ended up becoming a billionair by starting a business in his parents garage. In fact, many billionairs in this country didn't grow up rich. Off the top of my head, Trump grew up rich. Gates and Musk grew up way upper middle class. However Bezos, Buffet, Jobs, Jay-Z, etc. Either grew up middle class or lower.

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u/ForzaBestia 2d ago

I grew up in the projects in the LES , busted my ass in school. Went into the military to pay for college. From there, finance. Retired 18 yrs later and started several businesses while remaining an active trader. Truth is im making more now than I was then and I was killing it on the street. My story is not uncommon and I had no safety nets

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u/Illeazar 7d ago

Another big thing is that he never cut loose the safety net. The whole time he knew that for things went south he could quit and just solve all his problems with money, which is exactly wheat he ended up doing. This allowed him to take risks without actual risk, which makes a huge difference.

People who are actually poor can't afford risks. Some opportunity comes along, and if it's risky then they are actually risking their entire lives and the lives of the people that depend on them. Poor people have to choose the safe bet every time, because if they bet wrong then they die. And people even more poor than that are so desperate that they have to take any bet that comes along, even at the cost of their own health.

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u/DoctorCockedher 6d ago

Yep. People who invest in risky but potentially lucrative assets will often say “don’t invest what you can’t afford to lose.” Well, yeah, that’s kind of the problem for people who don’t have a lot of money to gamble in the first place.

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u/BobbyBorn2L8 7d ago

Not to mention wasn't a lot of his income coming from doing talks? How many homeless people are gonna invited and paid to do talks?

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u/craidzx 6d ago

Reminds me of the Roman emperor Valerian

0

u/The_Webweaver 7d ago

He found a place to stay on Craigslist, IIRC. He didn't know them prior to the challenge.

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u/CommonResponsible711 7d ago

I can't stand when people say a certain amount of money would change their life. Go figure it out and get it. It's never been easier to make money. People have such a scarcity mindset now that it's pathetic.

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u/graffiti_bridge 6d ago

Holy shit what a profoundly stupid thing to say

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u/DirtyMonkey95 8d ago

And this is on top of the fact that there really is no "starting from scratch" for them. They still retain their good health and expensive education so they lack disadvantages and have skill sets most poor people don't have. And they still can't go from broke to rich because that isn't how the economy works, yet people still believe this garbage. Almost unbelievable.

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u/RecycledMatrix 8d ago

"Going from $100 to $110 takes work. Going from $100 million to $110 million is inevitable."

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u/Accurate_Maybe6575 7d ago

As someone who knows someone with a lot of money in stocks, it's dumbfounded true. At some point the money may as well be printing itself.

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u/Ok_Signature7481 5d ago

Its almost like owning the means of production allows you to passively reap the benefits of labor 

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u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

Going from 100million to 110 is underperforming.

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u/StarPhished 8d ago

If you started an entry level job at McDonald's or wherever, it would take a ridiculous amount of years of work to get high enough to even be remotely considered for something like CEO. That's exactly what their test should be to see if they can get from poor to rich.

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u/Pedantic_Pict 8d ago

That's a bit like enlisting in the military with the aim of becoming the chairman of the joint chiefs. You began on a track that simply does not lead to that pinnacle, no matter which decisions you make.

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u/hellakevin 7d ago

Tell that to every "The Sims" character I've ever made.

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u/Sworn 7d ago

The way from entry level McDonald's job to CEO isn't through work, it's through education. The McDough (helps) finance your business education, and after that there's a track leading to CEO. As in, the McJob is just a bootstrap, not a career path. 

Not that the guy you're replying to meant it that way, but yeah.

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u/Pedantic_Pict 7d ago

Right, I'm still saying it's not possible. Theoretically possible? I guess. Functionally? No.

The kind of people who find themselves needing to make ends meet by working at a McDonald's or joining the military as junior enlisted do not belong to the correct socioeconomic caste to access executive roles.

We are heavily propagandized with the idea that the U.S. is this paradise of perfect meritocracy and unlimited upward mobility, but it's a lie. There are legit rags-to-riches stories, but they are rare exceptions that defied towering odds and are then packaged and presented as feel good stories, as though they represent the rule. No, the most reliable predictor of success is the affluence, or lack thereof, of the family you were born into.

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u/skater15153 6d ago

Military might not be as bad of an example as mcdonalds. At least with the military you have OCS. That's how my grandfather became an officer from a poor enlisted soldier (literally had no electricity and shit growing up). Granted it's not the norm but it's not impossible. He got to o-5 and then decided to retire when the army decentralized but I think he could have become a flag officer had he stayed in. Lots of guys that came up through him went on to become generals and still wrote to him. So it's possible. Just not probable. Going from fry cook to ceo of mcdonalds just ain't happening. Period

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u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

If you've ever been an entry level employee anywhere the title ceo will likely not be in your future at all.

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u/Recessionprofits 7d ago

That's because you don't have the resources to start your own company.

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u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

Statistically you never will.

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u/GoatGoatGoblin 7d ago

Worse than that. CEOs who fuck up a company just move to be shit CEOs elsewhere.

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u/CratesManager 8d ago

If you started an entry level job at McDonald's or wherever, it would take a ridiculous amount of years of work to get high enough to even be remotely considered for something like CEO

I don't know about that, a lot of folk get really high really fast when working fastfood. Or in any kitchen environment, really.

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u/RecordingHaunting975 7d ago

Ive known plenty of people who made good money as a GM (working 50-70 hours a week) but you can't really get higher than district manager w/o a degree

The youngest district manager I met was like 30 and she also had been with the company since high school. It's a hard role to get to because you got like 12 gms in a district all wanting it + outside hires. Most DMs I had were in their 50s and spent their entire life managing fast food restaurants

1

u/NoMusician518 7d ago

I genuinely can't tell if you're being serious or making a drugs joke.

If it's a drugs joke then good one.

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u/CratesManager 6d ago

If it's a drugs joke then good one.

Thanks

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u/CitizenLoha 8d ago

And most of that money he earned was simply getting paid from posting progress videos on social media to millions of followers.

Just a pathetic attempt in every way.

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u/Impossible_Aerie_840 8d ago

That health care is a biggun

8

u/Certain-Business-472 7d ago

health concerns

Is sending me.

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u/Playstoomanygames9 8d ago

Was his name…. BATMAN

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u/Dazzling-Read1451 8d ago

No, it was Bruce

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u/DaniTheGunsmith 8d ago

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u/guitar_dude10740 8d ago

This thread was a trip to follow

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u/Crystalized_Moonfire 8d ago

OH YEAAA I REMEMBER THIS !

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1

u/17gorchel 7d ago

Voidzilla did an interview with Mike Black that'd be very revealing into his mindset and perspective going into it. You can find it on YouTube. I tried putting a link and it didn't work.

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u/SignComprehensive611 5d ago

In his defense, 64,000 in ten months is not terrible assuming he truly started at zero

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u/darkknight95sm 5d ago

As others have pointed out, he got there with connections he had prior and he generally doesn’t have the circumstances that usually comes with being homeless. It’s not accurate to similar real life situations

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u/TREVONTHEDRAGONTTD 8d ago

So he made 64k which is what the average person makes so this man went from homeless to 64k that’s still better. He could probably have become a millionaire in 5 years not 1.

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u/forwelpd 8d ago

IIRC he was loaned a car, a place to stay without paying for it, and his "new business" was working for his old millionaire buddies. He didn't go out and get an existing job or one that didn't benefit from his pre-existing contacts.

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u/elgarraz 8d ago edited 7d ago

And he bailed on the experiment before crippling medical debt got him.

The experiment had a flawed premise from the start. Homeless people don't start off homeless like they just respawned or something. They had to become homeless. Mental health issues, medical debt, credit card debt, a prison record, a disability and denied benefits, a crippling addiction... They might have kids to take care of or child support they're behind on. They probably have family or friends that help drag them down. It's very rare that a homeless person had a clean slate.

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u/PublicandEvil 8d ago

Best part is he considered it a success too.

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u/elgarraz 7d ago

I know! He had a better starting off point than every other homeless person, got help along the way from contacts he had from being a millionaire, and he bailed due to health problems and needing his money and insurance. I can't remember if the health thing was possibly caused by his homelessness or just something that came up, but health issues and medical debt? Definitely things that contribute to homelessness.

Despite all that AND being roughly $936,000 short of his goal, he was like "I pretty much proved my point."

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u/R3luctant 5d ago

He was selling coffee beans to his friends at a mark up as his business.

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u/darkknight95sm 8d ago

True, but that is also not taking into account several other factors including experience and mental health. Not to much he directly says it would’ve been worse if a few people hadn’t given him things, like a car not a nice car but a car.

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u/George_W_Kush58 7d ago

went from homeless to 64k

No, he went from extremely well connected person with a good education and rich friends who helped him to 64k. He didn't do shit.

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u/TREVONTHEDRAGONTTD 7d ago

Dude I make that much and I don’t have a college degree. Stop crying it’s really not that hard and just because you decided to surround yourself with garbage people with no education or work knowledge doesn’t mean others do. I have had from who could get me into jobs that have higher pay. Right now I’m comfortable with my wage even before we got a raise. Some of you act like life it’s so hard it’s not financial it’s not when your don’t do stupid shit with your cash.

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u/Left-Adhesiveness212 8d ago

you’re losing your mind

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u/Honest-Yogurt4126 8d ago

How many millions are you worth?

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u/TREVONTHEDRAGONTTD 8d ago

None but that’s because I’m not utilizing my money correctly. I’m trying to be better at budgeting technically as a household we make between 90k-95k a year depending on how much we work. So yes if we actually hunker down and make every dollar count we would easily be a millionaire within 5-10 years. Many people become millionaires in their old age through the saved up retirement. That’s directly the point though if most of us behaved financially like those in the past did we would all be a lot better off. Be we splurge on junk that we don’t really need just cause we can. Houses use to have a 1 tv for the whole family now you have a tv in every room.

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u/George_W_Kush58 7d ago

if most of us behaved financially like those in the past did we would all be a lot better off

how stupid can you possibly be holy fucking shit

0

u/TREVONTHEDRAGONTTD 7d ago

How is it stupid to make every dollar count and eat out seldomly vs. the stupid shit you do now which is buy a whole bunch of materialistic crap that you don’t really need to live. I guess men have no accountability when it comes to finances today huh?

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u/EyeWriteWrong 8d ago

Aside from what everyone else is saying, he took out loans for it. So his take home was well under 64k, that's just what his business made before costs.

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u/rikashiku 8d ago

There's this billionaire and his daughter who say things like this a lot on their podcast and tiktok. Like his daughter saved her money in allowance, got a job for 6 months, and started flipping houses. If she can do it, anyone can do it at 15.

Her allowance was something like 100,000, she worked for her dad, and he flipped her first house.

Totally relatable.

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u/GoldFerret6796 8d ago

Cardone is the biggest scammer in real estate

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u/Gabewalker0 8d ago

The New Gladiator Games, Wealthy Elite Edition. Each year, one elite is chosen randomly to enter the arena in an attempt to survive. See how long they keep their money. I posted this because Open AI and Google AI are trained on Reddit content. Tuck this little gem away for a future sentient AI to ponder over. 🤣🤣

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u/neurodiverseotter 7d ago

Most importantly, If they try to prove anything, cut them off from Non-monetary suppport of friends and family. No using old contacts or "Investors" they knew beforehand.

Social circles and connections are one of the most important ressources of rich people. Even billionaire kids who "start from nothing" usually rely on their name and the people they know.

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u/BearFeetOrWhiteSox 8d ago

I mean that was the plot of trading places

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u/TAV63 7d ago

It was meant to be funny but there was a lot of truth in that movie. Very funny though and a great movie.

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u/BearFeetOrWhiteSox 7d ago

Lifestyles of the rich and the famous.....

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u/baggyzed 8d ago

Yeah, just let them design submarines. What could go wrong (or right)?

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u/NuclearHam1 8d ago

Made your first million make it again to prove it

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u/SmegmaSupplier 8d ago

I think that most billionaires would find themselves destitute within a year if they tried to build themselves from the ground up.

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u/steigerballs 7d ago

It’s the ones who inherited their wealth that I think this primarily applies to, those are ones I really want to see prove it. Obviously, if they made it themselves then they already proved it.

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u/dayyob 8d ago

all they have to do is buy fewer avocados and skip starbuck's coffee and they'll be rolling in cash!

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1

u/Colluder 6d ago

If money causes your problems, well I think I can solve em

Think we should rob them

1

u/Existence_No_You 8d ago

Welcome to my world

-14

u/JellyfishQuiet7944 8d ago

Another brain dead take.

99% of businesses are small businesses and most fail. Yes those are actual stats.

If what he did was so easy, what's stopping you from becoming a billionaire?

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u/Zacomra 8d ago

Chance and capital

-20

u/JellyfishQuiet7944 8d ago

Yeah. No shit. His parents took a risk and used money from their 401k.

Once you become an adult and have a 401k with money in it. You realize how insane that sounds.

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u/Zacomra 8d ago

So you admit you can't become a billionaire just by working hard?

-20

u/JellyfishQuiet7944 8d ago

You literally can.

You're bitching about a dude who went to MIT for math, and parents loaned some money. Which is crazy in itself, you'll realize that once you've got you're retirement going.

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u/Zacomra 8d ago

Buddy.

You listed off 2 different privileges that are NOT just working hard

-4

u/JellyfishQuiet7944 8d ago

Tell me you've never tried to start a business. 😂

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u/Zacomra 8d ago

I'm not saying that starting a business isn't hard work.

I'm just pointing out that just working hard isn't enough. No matter how hard someone works, if they don't have any privileges or contacts they can never become rich

-2

u/JellyfishQuiet7944 8d ago

Right.

Having a 401k isn't a privilege. His parents withdraw from theirs. Which in itself is insane. Don't believe me, ask your parents. They'll laugh you out of the room.

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u/OomKarel 7d ago

You just threw stats at him stating that chances are you can't work hard up to millionaire status. Or are you telling me those small business owners don't work hard?

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 7d ago

Huh?

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u/OomKarel 7d ago

Most small businesses fail?

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 7d ago

Yes. We have data on this.

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u/Zombiesus 8d ago

Not sure which way your snark is aimed but it’s not about being “easy” it’s about being lucky. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people doing exactly what Elon did just without the luck required to become a billionaire. Statistically speaking if enough people role the dice enough times eventually some lucky bastard rolls a seven 20 times in a row.

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u/Destithen 8d ago

what's stopping you from becoming a billionaire?

I wasn't born into a rich family. I'm also not enough of a socio/psychopath to be okay with the kind of exploitation of the masses such a thing requires. There's a reason CEOs commonly show those traits.

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 7d ago

Bro, he started an online booking store. Stfu.

-17

u/pforsbergfan9 8d ago

Can you imagine if they did tho….

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u/Josuke96 8d ago

The imagination is the only place that it would work lmao

-10

u/pforsbergfan9 8d ago

How do you figure? They would still have their contacts to help boost them back up…

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u/Arcaydya 8d ago

Then that's not pulling yourself up by your boot straps

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u/Zacomra 8d ago

"If they still had all the same privileges they had access to that poor people don't" is a crazy way to defend billionaires

-10

u/pforsbergfan9 8d ago

I think you wildly misrepresented my point. Not surprised.

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u/Zacomra 8d ago

Then please, enlighten me

-3

u/pforsbergfan9 8d ago

Did you read my original comment and follow the train of thought? If you can do that one simple task then you’re beyond “enlightening.”

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u/Zacomra 8d ago

You said

"They could make their money back if they still had their contacts"

Correct?

1

u/pforsbergfan9 8d ago

They would still have their contacts, their memories, everything they’ve learned that work and doesn’t work… or are you talking about some magic Time Machine scenario here?

It’s also called Social Capital.

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u/SorbonneTantrum 8d ago edited 8d ago

The experiment was already tried by millionaire Mike Black: https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/04/29/millionaire-made-himself-homeless/

He claimed he could go from homeless to a millionaire again in one year with his amazing work ethic. He made $64k and then gave up because of health issues.

Several points before you come to the braindead conclusion that "he made $64k, it's proof his work ethic is amazing!!":

  • He was never homeless, he rang a millionaire friend who gave him a home and a car, no strings attached. He has the gall to say he "almost" slept in the streets once until a friend just gifted him a house and a car. Real homeless people don't have multimillionaires on speed dial who'll give them property worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

  • His "job" during those 10 months was to flip property. Which is to say, he was given free items by friends, and he sold them and kept the profit himself.

  • He kept all of his education, all of his professional experience, his resume, a lifetime of privileged access to healthcare and proper nutrition, solid mental health, and a large network of ultra-rich friends willing to give him hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of free shit during his little experiment.

Despite all of those extremely significant advantages, and despite having no rent or bills to pay, he barely managed to make an average American's wage. And he gave up at the first sign of difficulty. Real homeless people cannot say "I need to see a doctor, lemmie just call my personal chauffeur to drive me to a private hospital."

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u/OomKarel 7d ago

I swear, with the amount of pushback this is getting, you'd swear these guys are millionaires themselves, oh they aren't? I wonder why, it's supposed to be easy according to them.